Fender 6G6-B Blonde Bassman Kit Build | Part 1 : How Did the Builder Do?

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[@skeeterbuck1355]

Lyle, I think the reason that kits have become more popular is because of the overall poor quality of the mass production amps being made. Your numerous videos to the current Fender amps is a testimony to that and these are designed by so called pro electrical engineers. Even though the builder made some mistakes, Once you get the mistakes sorted out the quality of the amp will be better. Not everyone can afford 2-3K for a well made amp. Also, we all need to learn somewhere. Keep up the great work educating the masses on quality amp building and repair.

[@lenoredanziger712]

I really appreciate the points about part quality and reliability. Even more the ones on safety and legality. I always get useful and practical knowledge about crafting and engineering amplifiers. The remark about sociopaths made me take pause. Really needed? I was mentored by a very gifted individual on the magic of these devices. He took an almost hallowed approach to repair and upkeep. He instilled in me a deep appreciation for the original designs, also pointing out their foibles as well. Always with a chuckle and his '61 Strat across his knee. Smile a little bro, be happy someone won't be injured. Keep on soldering.

[@PsionicAudio]

It was meant humorously but it came out bitter. I'll try to be more sunshine and light.

[@PsionicAudio]

I've gotten some messages saying I'm being too mean to this builder. Because the heater wiring is good and the tube socket lead dress is good, etc. And it is. But the amp is unsafe, is biased at 23% idle dissipation, and the output was unstable before I moved the NFB connection to the 4 ohm tap. So it doesn't matter how good other bits in the amp are if it doesnt operate well and sound good. And safety trumps all. I didn't name the guy. So I don't think I was all that mean.

[@TheStimpy60]

Well said Lyle. I’ve learned so much from you. Honestly is still the best policy, and the safety and long range issues you point out are valid. Hope this builder, and all of us take heed.

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

I dont think you are ever mean and I like that you say what you think....how else do people learn the right way to do things. Dont ever change Lyle. Have you ever thought about doing an amp building class? I think you would be the guy I would trust. Thanks again.

[@retread1083]

In my opinion, the psychopath comment was definitely mean (although you acknowledged that immediately). But putting that aside, there's more to think about here. I reckon this person shouldn't be referred to as a "builder" since we tend to associate some level of expertise with that term. Perhaps they should be called a "kit assembler"? You properly identified many of the problems with this amp in the state in which you received it. But who is at fault for those issues? Were the less than acceptable parts included in the kit, (or spec'd that way by the kit designer)? Did the assembler follow the designer's instructions regarding the fuse wiring, NFB connetion, etc? Without seeing the documentation that came with the kit, we don't really know if we should indict the designer or the assembler. The bottom line (as I see it): Assembling an amp kit might not produce a safe and reliable product, even if the instructions are followed to the letter. To get there, an assembler will need to learn a good bit more about best practices, safety concerns, component quality, and look for situations where voltage or power ratings weren't properly considered by the designer. Does that sound about right to you?

[@brianaaland5263]

I love these videos, I pick up a little bit of knowledge from every one, without having to do this 40 hours a week. I'm sure if I built a kit I would have made all these mistakes, but now I can know a few things to check for on my hobby build.

[@coltonius]

I’m glad I found these videos. Even as a hobby builder who does not intend to sell, the tips are great!

[@matthewf1979]

Most of my business was fixing kit builds. The things I saw probably wouldn’t shock you, but it sure would try.

[@chrisquinn9104]

I’ve built a few amps and love them, but I always take them to a proper tech to finish off the power supply and check over everything. They don’t end up being cheap, but they use the best parts I can get and being built on turrets etc, they can be upgraded as better part options come to light.

[@edgeofeternity101]

I've been tempted in the past to try a build, but did not because i don't understand how things work. Yes i can solder fairly well and struggle thru some schematics, and would like to say,"I built this", but I also realized from video's such as yours, the knowledge and skill is really the key element I'm looking for when buying an amp. I know you didn't accidentally spill some special sauce in there, or calculate how many .001 cents you save over 20,000 units. I also found i could buy a really well built used amp for the same money as a kit. Leo wasn't a novice, and for his day, he did very well indeed. Mil spec certainly improved the design and quality of the way things were done and created a standard for the way things were done. Just because some have hair that looks like Albert, don't mean they are as smart, and could actually be just the opposite.

[@PsionicAudio]

I always tell people start with a tube screamer. Figure out what's really happening there. Learn how to speak/think schematic. Build a few. Get good at that. Then try a Champ. Don't go faster than your understanding or technique allows.

[@kaarefestvog6540]

My original 6G6 has an 8ohm transformer. It's got the same output as a blonde twin, the same power transformer as the Tweed Bassman and most of the coupling caps are Astrons.

[@bernhardnizynski4403]

Great presentation!

[@driftless.electronics]

Arguably, the kit builder did a decent job, the kit provider screwed up. I have made a few from mojo tone, which has better instructions than most, and their nicely redrawn layouts have a fused neutral. The modern wiring is buried somewhere in the instruction manual. I fixed a ceriatone kit a few weeks ago that had every transformer nut completely stripped hanging on by the nylon insert, and the only preamp ground point was through the shield tab of a 16mm push/pull pot with no lock washer and an oversized chassis hole. It does really irk me how many unsafe kit amps are sold, but a little sympathy Mr Psionic, we all start somewhere.

[@RadioDeadAir]

Everyone starts with layouts, but what you mention here speaks to the value of learning to read schematics. I've seen a couple layouts and schematics that have conflicted with each other, often with the layout being incorrect. Learning schematics (and learning to translate them to something like DIY Layout Creator) saves you headaches in the long run and comes in soooo handy for fixing other stuff ...

[@driftless.electronics]

@@RadioDeadAir Everyone starts with layouts is my point. The average kit builder is just looking at a picture and copying what they see. So make the picture safe, accurate, and easy to read. Those of us who read schematics, design things, and actually know what each component is doing, are less likely to purchase kits. Not everyone wants to spend the time to have a deep understanding, they just want a cool amp and bragging rights to their band mates. That said, if you’re selling stuff, you should know what you’re doing and make safe products.

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

Never stop telling it like it is, mate. Never.

[@adeptgopnik]

Keep up the good vids. Very good insight. I want to build an amp someday. I am doing pedals now and can pretty much do most analog time pedals and overdrives. I am not quite ready yet to go to amps, but am excited for the time when I am.

[@GL64]

More on this 6G6B please....I'm about to build one myself! Hopefully a little better.

[@PsionicAudio]

When the parts for this arrive you'll see some good things happen.

[@GL64]

@@PsionicAudio Yay! Please detail the new adjustable bias. That's one thing I definitely want to do to mine.

[@fuzzprobe]

Great video, thanks!

[@scottwilcox6313]

Great video "don't try this at home" Thank you Lyle for keeping things in perspective. To all the rookies building amps If you don't really know what your doing then DON'T PRACTICE WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES.

[@chilloutbroseph]

This is a great video. There is a reason that a good hand-wired amp costs a heck of a lot more than the parts and consumables do, even at retail part costs, and it’s the labor, overhead, and the knowledge ($0.04 for the chalk, and $9.999.96 for knowing where to make the mark).

[@ajoseph86]

Lyle, discussing output transformer impedance and negative feedback. I have kit build 5f2a circuit with an 8 ohm output transformer. To more closely emulate the negative feedback of the original, should I half or double the stock 22k resistor? Sorry, it was a little difficult following the discussion. Thank you!

[@PsionicAudio]

Usually you would double it. Ish. Experiment within a safe margin.

[@mattjohnson6916]

You know you're in for a ride as soon as you open it up and see all those ground lugs connected to the power transformer mounting bolts...

[@PsionicAudio]

That will all get sorted soon.

[@oldguy5381]

Wow 😮

[@bobholmes487]

do you have suggestions for a high quality kit?

[@edrenas7930]

I've wanted to build a kit for a while and I have been an electronics hobbyist for years, mainly doing repairs of my own gear. I know how to use a DMM and solder well. My question is, Are these kits so bad they are not worth the time and price? I appreciate the artisanship and skill needed to build an amp of Psionic quality and I'm not expecting that, I just want something good, safe, reliable, and fun to build.

[@PsionicAudio]

All kits are not created equal. Start with Tube Screamer kits and get your soldering skills together where the voltage is low as is the cost of failure. Really learn how that circuit works - triodes and opamps are very similar in concept. And once you really know what is going on in the TS schematic you'll be ready to understand amp schematics. And then I would suggest the Champ kit from Tube Depot. Their 5E3 Deluxe kit is fantastic, but start with the simpler Champ.

[@edrenas7930]

@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the advice and all your great videos. I'm in Collierville and plan on stopping by Tube Depot post-COVID (whenever that is).

[@stevelinn8110]

Was there a part 2 with fixing grounding?

[@PsionicAudio]

There is, in a playlist. This was a good while back.

[@stevelinn8110]

Thank you @@PsionicAudio I found that and the ground video as well.

[@WillGalluccio]

Where could I get the better Silver Mica caps that you mention? I've always only been able to find the generic SM ones from my sources.

[@RadioDeadAir]

On the subject of output tube grid stoppers, I've heard conflicting things in regard to the 5F6A. Rob Robinette wrote you shouldn't add them to a Bassman build unless the amp is unstable because it affects the distortion and breakup. Would some small 1.5k grid stoppers really affect it that much? Mine tends to be stable, aside from some power scaling nonsense I added. (A 47uf phase inverter filter resolved that, thankfully). Should I leave well enough alone, or grid stoppers help the amp in the long run? Oh, and you mentioned the silver micas ... is there a particular make/model you'd advise that would be better than the "SM" ones, from Mouser or somewhere? Edit: NM, saw your recommendation for the Vishays. Should I avoid silver micas in general?

[@PsionicAudio]

1.5K grid stoppers on a 5F6-A are inaudible as far as the good amp sounds go. They just add some stability and quiet nasty things. I'll disagree with Rob on that. The silver micas from Mouser or Digikey are good ones, not just labeled SM. But they cost more than good ceramics, which cost more than generic SMs, which cost more than cheap ceramics.

[@richardlynch5632]

😎👍

[@soundmasterg]

Any idea who sells 6G6-B kits these days? I'd love to build one for myself but can't find anything close for sale anywhere except Ceriatone.

[@noahpavey6504]

What ceramic disc caps do you recommend, I just got an order of this sm caps for my diy build and don't want use them now. 😂 Thank you for the tip.

[@PsionicAudio]

Vishay 562R series 1KV.

[@noahpavey6504]

@@PsionicAudio Thank you so much!

[@TheAxe4Ever]

Yeah. I wouldn’t ever try to build a kit amp. I play them, I don’t build them. I like to stay in my lane.

[@ghostfacegrillla6272]

Those sm silver micas will give you hell!

[@danielsaturnino5715]

Makes you wonder when you plug into an amp...

[@stevelark9840]

Wouldn't the bias typically run HOTTER when coping a vintage schematic? Higher incoming AC voltage should mean more current draw. Then again, the higher AC wall voltage could also drive up the bias tap on the transformer.

[@PsionicAudio]

That's what happens here.

[@gerardoromano3436]

When the overall voltage of the amp increases, BIAS voltage beomes higher but negative relative to ground, IE: With 110V wall voltage (mains) BIAS voltage is -(negative) -50V and output tubes run hotter, with 120V mains BIAS voltage is - (negative) 55V and de Output Tubes run cooler. The more negative de voltage BIAS is the less current flows in the tubes at idle, so they run cooler. In this case, the builder put the component values designed for 110V Wall voltage as it was in the 1960´s, with wall voltage today of 120-125v the amp runs cooler, so you have to change a resistor value. Not big deal, you can try different values with alligator clips or do the math it´s not complicated and you can google it if you want is a SIMPLE RESISTOR DiVIDER, anyway, here Lyle is making a fuss over somethig because he likes to put other tech below him, he is a POSER. Simple as that.

[@jefferyboyle7276]

✌ 🎸

[@jameskavanagh4300]

I was looking into a ceriatone 6g6 head, please tell me its not one of those.

[@PsionicAudio]

Nope

[@jameskavanagh4300]

@@PsionicAudio nope it isn't or nope you are not saying ?

[@weschilton]

Seems to me that this builder is marketing too much on being "exactly like the original schematic..." which is irrelevant because of not using the the same original components, not getting the bias right and using a 3-prong power cord, but wiring it unsafely. I completely agree with you that these inexperienced kit builders devalue the skill and experience of real amp techs and builder who actually know what they are doing.

[@1Dougloid]

"I am a sociopath." That's rich.

[@ensignofindustry1033]

Hey, no need to drag The Gear Page into this 😅

[@wrekkingcru]

This builder likely thought he was doing the right thing with a cut-and-paste-from-the-schematic approach, but Ignorant "good intentions" can lead to wasted money, bad tone, grounding/interference problems and at worst - safety issues. Then all those pretty blue Zoso caps are wasted. The original build on this was like a good looking bowl of plastic fruit that you can't eat - and swallowing it would not have been pretty either ;-) Nice build Audit & Best Practices review, Lyle. Hope to hear an "After Video", once you've pulled this puppy from the jaws of ignorance and turned it into a solid gold tone machine.

[@charlieplate9687]

Kit amps : they either teach beginners to troubleshoot… or they don’t …

[@chipsterb4946]

Ignorance sociopath. However, no one should be selling an electrical device with 400+ volts without learning elementary safety rules like the safety ground, fusing, etc. 30 years ago the excuse of “I just followed the instructions” might be acceptable. With all of the resources available on the internet, there is no excuse. If the seller of the kit did not update instructions/schematics to reflect basic current day safety requirements, that may well qualify as sociopathic.

[@r.weaver3769]

Mechanics are the same way, "Anyone can work on cars" then the really good ones are overshadowed by all the jack legs. Leaving people with the idea everyone is a ripoff, even the good guys.

[@gerardoromano3436]

HA HA HA you can´t stand other´s succes. IF the builder got away with ground loops and the amp has a low noise floor what´s the problem, who is going to look inside to see redudant grounds. IF you have to move ONE wire to move the negative feedback to the 4ohm speaker connector so what ? IF you need to change a single cap in the bias suply with a 100v one so What. IF you have to change ONE resistor to BIAS the amp hotter you have to do it in a vintage one as well so what. Oh What a drama, the mica caps may leak at some point, as if Ceramics doesn´t fail.... The thing I can´t stand is you turning down other techs work, that´s BAD PRACTICE, that tells me you´re not a professional ,maybe an actor faking the accent as if southern acceint is a shame. Come on Layla...