File Making - A Great Sheffield Industry That Is No More (2023)

[@bladder1010]

There is no other KZbin channel where you can learn this kind of fascinating and detailed information. Thank you so much for the work you put in to this. Some day I would like to travel to the UK and tour all the industrial museums. Nobody preserves history better than the British.

[@michaelrandle4128]

I worked as a file forger in the sixties, Makins, on Darnal road Sheffield, we had seats hung from the ceiling so we could swing from the gas fired furnace to the drop hammer, it was hot, repetitive and boring. We where given special additives to put in the water to replace salt lost in sweating in the heat. Thanks for the video.

[@CalmBeforeTheStorm76]

I just saw a video by Ken Hawley documenting an auger manufacturer in Sheffield, and at one of the hammer presses, I believe they called it, a worker was moving back and forth on one of those seats-- still looked way tougher than the vast majority these days have any familiarity with. Also, one of the straight razors my grandfather passed on to me was made in Sheffield... along with my "rolls razor" shaving system. It's sad that so much of that craftsmanship is gone, and replaced with soulless mass manufactured junk from Southeast Asia. I always keep an eye out for tools made here in the U.S., and England as well, though those are far rarer in my part of the country. Thank you for your years of dedication to your craft....

[@michaelrandle4128]

@@CalmBeforeTheStorm76 I also have a rolls razor, double sided silver box with sharpener and strop. I think they where issued to the army in the Second World War. Loverly thing to have but not as good to use as modern disposable ones.

[@CalmBeforeTheStorm76]

@@michaelrandle4128Yes, that's exactly it. The stropping mechanism works perfectly, and the blade itself is engraved, by hand, with "Sheffield, En"

[@grahamg6212]

I was one of the people who bought lots of the equiptment and office stuff when makins closed and everything sold at auction. Most of the old books and records went to paper recycling and a lot of the files went to scrap.. I always remember that there were loads of Indian guys running after us and trying to buy the machinery to send to India, they particularly wanted the grinding wheels and the grinding machinery that we had to manhandle out through the windows as the building could not be touched and there was not enough time to dismantle. Still have some files in my toolbox and still used today. Lots of the steel pots were not to be touched as they were contaminated with cyanide.

[@michaelrandle4128]

@@grahamg6212 thank you for that, can you tell me what year it closed.

[@marklelohe3754]

I did my apprenticeship at Westland Helicopters in Yeovil. When I started in Sept 1973 I was issued with a set of new files amongst other hand tools to do my basic training. I'd often wondered how a file was made but never found out. I was intrigued again when I came upon this posting on KZbin. That set of files I have regularly used throughout my life were all crafted in Sheffield. One or two have become dull but are still used on Al Alloy effectively. It is sad to learn that I will not be able to replace them with proper new ones. Well now I know, I am amazed. Thank you for enlightening me.

[@bbjjfslipk6552]

Look up how to sharpen a file

[@andrewirvine6444]

An old engineer from the Midlands told me how they used had files extensively in making parts for, and assembling, machinery. When a file blunted it was dropped into a bucket that was taken daily to an independent soli file sharpener. He would anneal the files, re-cut them and then harden them again up to tool steel level. Using talcum powder to fill the bottoms of the grooves helped prevent clogging (especially with brass or aluminium) as it was dislodged by the file cards used to clean swarf from the files getting right down the grooves. This man made his entire income from this procedure!

[@samrodian919]

There is an acid process to sharpen files. As a former high school metalwork teacher we experimentally sent a batch of odd old dull files ( no file gets duller than having school kids 'sawing' a file backwards and forwards lol) and to our great surprise these files all came back as sharp as new ones. I've never found out how the acid process worked ( the theory of it anyway) but if you have files that are dear to you, and if you've had and used them for a lifetimes work they probably are and some are dull and won't cut steel anymore. Look up the process and see if you can get them acid sharpened.also my head of department told me that brand new files should always be ' run in on aluminium using school chalk in the teeth( to prevent clogging) then once run in and cleaned with a file card they were good to go on steel. As a precaution I did this with the files that had been acid sharpened and they were put to normal 'abuse' by the kids thereafter.

[@danielfouardlibertarianono8017]

I learned about the great steel products made in Sheffield by the late great Fred Dibnah. In some of the programs he made after retiring from Steeple Jacking. What a dude he was. One of my heroes and boy did he deserve to be thought of as such!

[@jesseerickson662]

I've watched everything I could find on Fred years ago. It's absolutely fascinating. He was one heck of a man.

[@johnhuntley5591]

An excellent record of this interesting period in Sheffield's history. Well done!

[@benjaminzedrine]

"I don't use a watch or anything I just guess the time"...damn straight. Man knows where he's got to be and when.

[@rockets4kids]

You get to a certain age and time ceases to matter.

[@chopsddy3]

This skill must be preserved in its most basic form. I can’t thank you enough for this information. The last commercially made files I purchased from old american named companies were of shamefully poor quality . Wavy surfaces with bent dulled teeth. I was shocked. I have 100+ year old files, found on a barn floor, that cut better.I’m acid sharpening all my ancient files to get as much life out of them as they may have left. With the help of these videos,I’m confident that I’ll be able to produce my own ,by hand, if necessary. Thanks so much for your efforts.

[@jackwheatley8]

do you think you could untemper the old files, grind them flat and cut them again then temper? As the form and good quality steel is all there just needs re cutting ?

[@chopsddy3]

@@jackwheatley8 Suitable steel is cheap and readily available. Resurfacing the file may be more work than it’s worth. Grinding belts are expensive. It can certainly be done though.

[@randydewees7338]

The old names - Nicholson and Simond - I think made good files when production was in the USA. At least that has been the case with every USA Nicholson that has come to me. Nicholson moved production to Mexico and Brazil, and those files IMO are pretty poor. The Simond files are now made in Honduras and India, don't know anything about them.

[@chapiit08]

@@randydewees7338 Indian made files can be a hit and miss, but Befana from Poland, Vallorbe from Switzerland and the Portuguese firm Tome Feteira manufacture good quality files, the later makes files for Bahco as well.

[@rockets4kids]

Quality machinists files are still made but they are ungodly expensive.

[@christianzazzali2720]

Fabulous telling. Appreciate the time, effort, and care put forth in this production. Thanks awfully

[@SuperCallumF]

Absolutely fascinating!! Thanks for this insight!!

[@timothydigiuseppe1753]

I had no idea of the history and processes involved in manufacturing this tool that, until now, I took for granted. The presentation files are remarkable. Well done and thank you!

[@harikrishna69]

This deserves much wider attention. So much that i didnt know.

[@machinerydoctor]

Thanks to the people involved in producing this documentation . The lead baths to heat and prevent the finished files from oxidation is genius . I did a Blacksmith trade course and we was taught there to temper delicate springs in molten lead after hardening them in oil . A Blacksmith i worked for showed me the hot block method as well as the oil or wood flash temper .

[@carlyleporter5388]

Really good video. Surprised it hasn't had more views.

[@fredfarnackle5455]

Thank you for posting that extremely interesting video. I have used Sheffield files for years, such a shame that they are no longer made there. The ones you can buy now are not a patch on the Sheffield ones. I made some engineer's scrapers from half round files when I was a year 3 apprentice in 1958, I am now 84 and still have them - they are as good as new.

[@Lanesplitter]

We were up-cycling (or repurposing) before Thunberg was a twinkle in her father’s eye - I made a set of machinists parallels with some old flat files. My brother-in-law inherited them when I retired and still uses them today.

[@johngibson3837]

Lovely video appreciate your time and effort have seen those highly patterned files down at kellam and they are beautiful such craftsmanship

[@paulhelman2376]

My dad born in 1900 was from a generationa family of carpenters in Belarus. He continued to use those classic wood saws until he passed at 89. I often watched him sharpening with a triangular file. Those saws could last a lifetime and need only skill and a strong arm. Plus they could be played as a musical instrument which no power saw can do!

[@Paul_Spence1964]

fantastic!

[@billshiff2060]

I love my files. I can't imagine metal working with out file. A good file is a joy to use. Recently we got some Grobet files but were made in italy not swiss. I was pleasantly surprised that they are of even higher quality than the swiss ones.

[@HighWealder]

Very informative thanks

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

Thank you. I know you can’t mention all the purposes files were used… because it was literally everything - almost. But the one trade you could’ve mentioned over the last 400 years would be gun making, gunsmith. Even today, I as a general gunsmith, acquire files of as many shapes & sizes to do my work. Even imperfect files are gained where they are heated & made into other file shapes for purpose use or completely different tool ; either hand or machine tool. A damaged file may be made ‘safe’ on some surface for necessary shoulder work or other. Gun work has been trade using files a lot - a must have tool.

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

If I had no factory files I’d have to make them. I can’t imagine the crudeness of them should I make them . Alternative would be cold chisel to remove metal or gravers to remove metal . A good blacksmith, must’ve abhorred the use of a file to turn valuable metal into tiny chips only to fall to the floor. Rather than shaping hot plastic metal with hammer to shape and not losing any precious metal to tiny pieces.

[@philhawley1219]

A good file is a joy to use, when it feels like spreading butter on hot toast you know it is doing the job for you. I'm not a gunsmith but I used chainsaws etc and like any job a dull tool is a dangerous tool.

[@lindsaybrown7357]

​@thatsthewayitgoes9 A youtuber, Clickspring has made his own tools including files. They look very factory like.

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

@@lindsaybrown7357 I’ll check it out. Thanks. But making file , I’d lose $$ bing time on gunworks. Thanks I’ll check out when I get time, I’m SO busy

[@roygutfinski879]

I really enjoyed your presentation. My great great grandfather, William Crookes, came from the West Riding of Yorkshire in 1848 and settled in Providence, Rhode Island where he worked for many years as a file cutter.

[@alanolley7286]

I have a file made in Rhode Island ,I am in Kent.

[@groblerful]

Thank you for showing us how it was done. Now part of our history.

[@snowflakemelter1172]

I did my apprenticeship at a London gunmaker and we had benches laid out with every file you can imagine,the intricate parts of the guns were almost entirely hand filed ,some we even reground and reshaped for specific jobs, we used Swiss Valorbe files mostly.

[@christopherd.winnan8701]

Thank you. I learned so much.

[@Lanesplitter]

As a first-year apprentices in the local steel mill, we were provided with a selection of tools, most of which were made in Sheffield (Moore & Wright, Dormer, Presto and the like) The rolling mill took £3 a week until it was all paid for.Lasted a working lifetime. Today’s imported stuff is complete tat by comparison.

[@jackdawg4579]

Very interesting thank you!

[@dinosauralan.9486]

Hand flies possibly the most underrated tool an engineer can wield. I love filing and always will, however I have several small files in my small collection which I know not what they were designed for, one called a Bulls Foot, tougher being a Bar file.

[@stewartridgeway3778]

Bulls foot used in clock repair for filling down bushes.

[@jaimz33]

I remember coming through Sheffield in the late 70's in the early hours. It was like Dante's inferno. An awesome sight to behold. All gone now thanks to the witch Thatcher.

[@paulgammidge-jefferson9536]

Thank you. Spell-binding.

[@GregPodster133]

I 'Served my time' at Peter Stubbs Ltd ( Warrington ) File Manufacturers.👍

[@billdoodson4232]

I still have a couple of Stubbs files, I first used them as an apprentice 50 years ago. Still the best files I ever used.

[@GregPodster133]

@@billdoodson4232 Same here! Served my time 1974/1978. 👍👍

[@GregPodster133]

@billdoodson4232 The ( mostly Chinese ) one's nowadays are not a patch on British made files. The metal cutting files are ok with wood, but that's about it. Sadly.

[@boblawson1006]

Glad someone mentioned them. I wasn't a fitter, didn't look after my files as well as I ought.

[@billdoodson4232]

@@GregPodster133 You wouldn't have had a relation Andy, who worked at Total oil in Immingham would you?

[@T3-RIDER]

I have a file and chisle from Sheffield with NCB stamped on

[@bigoldgrizzly]

Hard point saws can now be sharpened or touched up with diamond files or, as I have done a couple of times, the old teeth can be ground off and new teeth filed in. Is it worth it and would I do it again ... no! There are still so many fine Sheffield saws available at boot sales if you are prepared to learn the skills needed to sharpen or even re-tooth a saw. It is not a particularly difficult process but you do need patience and the will to work accurately. Paul sellers has some great instructional videos on the subject, here on youtube

[@speedtriplet5093]

I use to work at A H Rolston on rockingham street in the 80s

[@paulmorrey4298]

Thanks

[@nojhampton]

As a fitter I quite liked your presentation. Although manufacturering will return to the UK in some form. It is the knowledge that is learnt from decades of doimg that cannot be learnt from textbooks or manuals.

[@markrowland1366]

My farther, a saw doctor, an 8 year trade, supplied me with dull mill files for my many adventures in metal work. Mostly American made. A pamphlet, named many locations of factories and the many files from Nicholson. A sheet metal cutting process I could not believe was to drill a line of 3.2 mm, an eighth of an inch, holes in wrought iron. A cold chisel was worked along the line until it was cut through. A photo of Isambard Kingdom Brunelle revealed such a cut nearby. A computer controlled plasma cutter now requires little attention. Announced 1970, an improved method of cutting Titanium, reducing time spent doing so in the US aircraft building industry, by a Billion dollars, at that time.

[@chopsddy3]

Where would one look to find file makers hammers or ,at least, their dimensions and weights along with their specific individual applications?

[@KenHawleyCollectionTrust]

We have examples of hammers in the collection. Drop us an email to enquiries@ hawleytoolcollection.com

[@chopsddy3]

@@KenHawleyCollectionTrust Thank you do much. I’ll be in touch.

[@QUIGS102]

Excellent

[@DaimlerSleeveValve]

I have file forgers and file cutters in my family history research, but I had not thought about the trades which used those files. In Prescot it was almost certainly the clock and watch makers. In Oldham it would have been cotton machinery makers.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

A really interesting an informative video! This should be compulsory viewing for engineering students. I must be out of time as I have hundreds of files of different section and cut which I use every day, I also use a proper wood saw, so much more controllable than an electric thing, my files are purchased made by Grobler in Switzerland. Chris B.

[@chapiit08]

There's a small French manufacturer that still manufactures hand cut specialty files and rasps. They are quite expensive.

[@jayroland9481]

Absolutely fascinating, thanks for showing. Question: What s the difference twixt quenching in brine & quenching in whale oil?

[@bigoldgrizzly]

The difference is mainly in the speed at which the quenching medium removes heat from the work piece by 'soaking it up'. Different steel alloys require to be cooled at an ideal rate for that particular alloy to properly harden them. Brine quenches are quick and oil quenches significantly slower.

[@machinerydoctor]

I thought he said quench in brine and cool the purple temper in whale fat . Gears and high speed steel are double hardened with no tempering

[@paulfrost8952]

Slightly different sort of file but my mother had a nail file that was stamped Sheffield, it was the best nail file I ever used.

[@Choscura]

at least when an industry like this migrates away, you still have the remnants on file

[@simonolsen9995]

That's a bastard of a pun.

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@simonolsen9995 I thought it was pretty smooth ;

[@simonolsen9995]

@@bigoldgrizzly I wouldn't give a rat's tail for it.

[@onenewworldmonkey]

I have a bunch of lazy bastard files. Great video.

[@TC-qd1zw]

Trying to remember who made the three corner file I used to sharpen my saw. Was from Sheffield.

[@Gary-Seven-and-Isis-in-1968]

How can anyone say with hand on heart that AH Ralston were a successful company? Look at those images closely at 29:07 in this video. All I see is a lack of investment due to lack of profit or managerial greed. People (real human beings) trapped in squalor and filth, paid peanuts and always underappreciated. There are many types of poverty, one being the poverty of the human spirit. How can anyone really mourn the passing of the sweatshop? Never forget that the Boss drove to and from work in his black saloon, while the artisan bloody well walked.

[@alanolley7286]

Just like Pakistan and other Asian countries now .

[@mattharvey8712]

Bravo.....show a person hand cutting the file.........cheers

[@chox2001]

Everything is throw away now. Nothing is made to last . Circular Saw teeth are mainly tipped with hard steel and re ground by machine. I remember Draw filing metals in my apprenticeship but I’m sure they aren’t even in apprentice shops now.

[@chopsddy3]

Making a “disposable” hand saw that can’t be resharpened seems a sinful waste of material and energy to me.

[@adrianjagmag]

@@chopsddy3 but it's the norm now :(

[@autumn5592]

Most circular saw teeth these days are tungsten carbide tipped, much more durable than any steel.

[@RichardMuenzer]

@KenHawleyCollectionTrust Thank You for posting this please I use files everyday especially the saw file I own a couple of diston's 10-point rip and an eight-point cross, so is more interested on file making some really good information here especially carbon and silicon I didn't know about the lead poisoning issue anyway thank you. If you'd like to know why I use files every day well,,, I'm a journeymen carpenter

[@who-gives-a-toss_Bear]

6:35 Don't you mean Three Square Files!

[@bigoldgrizzly]

Colloquially these tend to be called triangular files today, though they actually have 6 cut faces, not 3 we bears gotta help each other out ;

[@who-gives-a-toss_Bear]

@bigoldgrizzly Today is today where name changing is prolific, please don't bow down to peer pressure. Just allocating something a new name don’t make it different! It is what it is, and it’s always been a THREE SQUARE FILE. We are here to educate the next generation, not cow tow to there whims.

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@who-gives-a-toss_Bear yep - I'm into my eight decade and to me they will always be 'three square' :

[@philsteele7151]

You said that files are made of tool steel, I was under the impression they used carbon steel.

[@dennisyoung4631]

The two are synonymous, if one speaks of the past. Note: “O1 tool steel” is a high-carbon, oil hardening “tool steel” - .9+ % carbon, and some small alloying elements. I’ve used this for small cutters, etc…

[@bigoldgrizzly]

@@dennisyoung4631 Quite so! there are hundreds of different steel alloys available today that come under the group heading of 'tool steels'

[@alanolley7286]

​@@dennisyoung4631I made some of my own punches and cold chisels by spraying used motor oil on them for hours while at red heat.They work very well after tempering

[@xx6489]

Fascinating presentation. However. I don't lament for particular periods in the evolutionary progress of manufacturing efficiency . Whilst there may be a certain charm and rose coloured nostalgia looking back at periods when human dexterity could not yet be replaced by machines its worth remembering that those jobs were repetitive, boring and often dangerous. Stooped over a primitive bench hammering 50,000 file grooves a day by hand for the rest of a working life is a skill i wouldn't wish on an enemy. The ultimate goal of mass manufacturing is to produce goods with no human labour and the machines become an almost inexhaustible supply of cheap taxable labour.

[@thetruth156real3]

I think it has to shut down when the new owners took over, they were a Dutch family with the last name Peeder.

[@davidfalconer8913]

I had to buy some ( needle ) files recently ... they are VERY good quality ... and ... cheap @ £4 ! , also you get a nifty plastic case .... guess what ........................................[ made in China ] ...... QED .......... DAVE™🛑

[@michaeljohnson1006]

Any other country would have turned the last file manufacturer into a working museum

[@steveward53]

Plenty of high quality files still made , just not in Sheffield.

[@dennisyoung4631]

“…file my teeth and call me a saw!” - from fiction.

[@davidhamilton6363]

Three corner files??

[@Gazr965]

Everything is done for now, most tools now have to have a battery and a charger, sad really. Gaz Yorkshire.

[@bigoldgrizzly]

Sadly you are right but times change I guess and folks seem to always be in a rush to get things done in ways that require no physical effort. Most of the power tools made today get very little use , left to gather dust in the shed after a few uses consequently makers don't make them to last, but all strive to be the cheapest. There are really well made tools available but they are expensive. I buy and restore old tools for my own use and most of them will likely still be going strong when the planet has run out of material to make more batteries. My most used power drill was made by Wolf in the 1960s and it is indestructible. Greetings from South Yorkshire ;

[@pete.b4197]

I'm so fucking angry for todays tools are shit quality fucking secunda! And price are hi!!! Fucing roppery!! We need good tools,makers,artists!

[@TomCrockett-bl1gp]

David Sheffield the original Metallica😂

[@jamesboardman7048]

I'm afraid to buy files today, even brand news , by recognize brands, they farm most work to China and it's crap .I saw one with the American flag on , great made in America wrong packaged in America

[@mark4lev]

I’ve got a few old Nicholson files made in USA they are great.