Divine Harmonies: Bach's Metaphysics of Music

Dive into the profound world of Johann Sebastian Bach, where music becomes a divine language. In this episode, we explore Bach's philosophy and metaphysics of music and how he envisioned music as an artform where divine perfection and harmony could be manifested.
Listen to my new song Isthmus here: open.spotify.com/track/1jM0FK...
Find me and my music (including new song "Isthmus") here: linktr.ee/filipholm
Music by:
Johannes Bornlof
Filip Holm
Sources/Recomended Reading:
Butt, John (ed.) (1997). "The Cambridge Companion to Bach". Cambridge University Press.
Cooper, John M. (ed.) (1997). "Plato: Complete Works". Hackett Publishing Company.
Huffman, Carl A. (ed.) (2017). "A History of Pythagoreanism". Cambridge University Press.
Kirk, G.S., J.E. Raven & M. Schofield (1983). "The Presocratic Philosophers". Second Edition. Cambridge University Press.
Klavan, Spencer A. (2020). "Music in Ancient Greece: Melody, Rhythm and Life". Bloomsbury Academic.
Zhmud, Leonid (2012). "Pythagoras and the Early Pythagoreans". Translated by Kevin Windle & Rosh Ireland. OUP Oxford.
#bach #DivineHarmony #MusicPhilosophy

[@FilipHolm]

Our song "Isthmus" is now released, and you can stream it here: open.spotify.com/track/1jM0FKlu5Xy4NEQgysrVNM?si=c723d386c9f44293 You can also check out further links on my linktree: linktr.ee/filipholm

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

“Bach’s music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe cannot be regarded as a complete failure.” -Emil Cioran

[@The_Not_So_Great_Cornholio]

Wow. Quoting Cioran. You get a gold star.

[@ibrahimyohanna5491]

Thank you for sharing this quote.

[@Stichting_NoFap]

That needs an argument for proving a creator.

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

@@Stichting_NoFap no, it doesn’t. Cioran’s point was about how relatively marvelous Bach’s music is compared to the rest of…well, everything (in his opinion). Cioran was a skeptic, pessimist, and nihilist, not a preacher :)

[@Stichting_NoFap]

​@@CrazyLinguiniLegs the fact that it's not the main point doesn't mean a quote can't contain any other information. You don't need to be a preacher to be able to believe in god.

[@edigabrieli7864]

Every musician owes to Bach the Greates composer ever.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

TOO BAD that unfair Musicologists during a 19th century dishonest Cultural Operation , made SO MANY FAKE ATTRIBUTIONS to Bach . I'm not pleased at all , to point you that during his lifetime , Bach was mister Nobody , a good Organist in Leipzig ; but ALL OF A SUDDEN after 1800 he's become the maximum Musical Genius . A great Genius certainly Bach is , but his Legacy must be honestly reconsidered and in part rewritten 😢😢

[@lancemcclung3991]

Bach often inscribed at the end of his compositions: S. D. G. (Soli Deo Gloria) To God alone, the glory.

[@inhorama338]

To add to that, Handel sometimes used this inscription too.

[@StanleyGrill]

You’re not stretching for straws. While studying at a conservatory, many years ago, I became fascinated with how composers used music to communicate extra musical ideas - from Pythagoras to Ives. During Bach’s time, there was an extensive literature, now largely forgotten, theorizing on how certain musical intervals were tied to particular emotions. These ideas were well known by Bach and employed in his settings of religious texts (word painting) as well as his instrumental music. His assiduous efforts to attain technical mastery of the tools of music, most evident in the WTC and the Art of the Fugue, also extended to mastering the ways music could serve to elevate our feelings such that we are in a harmonious relationship with God.

[@davidereno1871]

It would be very interesting to access these sources of literature, if you can provide any names or links!

[@StanleyGrill]

@@davidereno1871 Hmmm, I found them in the Manhattan School of Music library 50 years ago. But now that you ask, I am curious to see what I can find online.

[@jamesmurff193]

So if the ideas were lost to history, how would we know about them?

[@StanleyGrill]

Snarky reply. Did you know about them?

[@BeyondTheMysteries]

Beautifully put

[@eyeofgnosis558]

"What is called good and evil, is better understood as harmony and disharmony within the cosmic symphony" - Engelflaed

[@AzothDee]

What work is this from I could not find the author.

[@vancemiller4611]

-tolkien

[@eyeofgnosis558]

@@AzothDee It's what I call my 'Daimon' :)

[@AzothDee]

​@@vancemiller4611thank you

[@andredelacerdasantos4439]

Still, beautiful music can't exist without dissonance.

[@julesmarwell8023]

WHEN one discovers Bach Tschaikovsky becomes decadent, Beethoven Becomes chaotic, Mozart becomes Frivolous, But Bach is discovered till Death

[@erichodge567]

...a little broad, but I know what you mean. Your adjectives are well chosen.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

@JULES when one discovers BACH , some time later he discovers Vivaldi Albinoni and many others like Krebs Biber Bruhns Kuhnau from whom Bach copied/transcribed/arranged with GREATEST GENIALITY 😮😮😮

[@tahaouhabi3520]

Bach is the GOAT

[@stanleyberger8654]

When I listen to Bach I have the impression that he is attuned to an eternal flow which I can’t define,being agnostic,of the life force,perhaps the Devine,but,in any case,reassuring.

[@Zdravko7]

No metaphisics, just pure devotion and love of God. "The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul." Johann Sebastian Bach S.D.G.

[@hello-rq8kf]

that literally is what metaphysics is. metaphysics literally means "after (or outside) the physical world", that's what God and the soul are

[@Zdravko7]

There's things outside the physical world (meta-physical), that are not God, but non-physical phenomena, not necessarily our Creator. @@hello-rq8kf

[@ban9nas177]

​@@hello-rq8kf There exists a difference between the concept of theology/god and metaphysics. Metaphysics can simply mean the world beyond of our representational one, or the world that exists outsideof the representational filter of human consciousness. You can very generally summarize the difference between the two in that Metaphysics in it's philosophical roots will in turn consist of philosophical explanation and inquiry, while religion deals far more with theism and god, and is rooted in non-philosophical concepts.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

✝️ Soli Deo Gloria ✝️

[@TheNegimaru]

If you want to go deeper into Bach’s music, take a look at the mathematics of it. Very magical. Some 20+ years ago there was a documentary about that. Wish I could find it again.

[@jordanmatt1744]

goedel, escher bach? i think that was the name of the book that explored some of the math

[@derinderruheliegt]

Bach was inspired by Kepler’s work on planetary motions. *Riemenschneider Bach Institute* KEPLER, BACH, AND GAUSS: THE CELESTIAL HARMONY OF THE EARTH'S MOTION

[@chriswalker9478]

@@derinderruheliegt I am of the belief that Bach was a force of nature unto himself. It wouldn't have mattered what philosophy he read, the music would have poured out of him one way or another.

[@lucadeieso4815]

If you really want to go deeper in Bach's music, you must study theology in a deep and serious way. Bach disliked "dry mathematical stuff" and that is very well known.. on the other hand Bach's library listed 80 volumes of theological works.

[@thearcticlord3920]

On his deathbed, Bach's final words to his 2nd wife were allegedly, "Do not cry for me as I go to where music is born".

[@Antsaboy94]

Irwin Goodman-a late Finnish singer-had a song called "Viimeinen laulu", translated into "Final song". Its third verse speaks of a distant birthplace of music where they only play the most beautiful and sweetest song of all. Although the song writer-late Veikko "Vexi" Salmi-wasn't a Christian, he recognized there's something more to this world than the mere physical plane of existence. My soul longs for its eternal residence. Both this alleged quote and these lyrics speak of that place, void of human flaw and beyond what a man can tarnish. The source of all that is Good and pure; something we can only have a glimpse of in this life.

[@thearcticlord3920]

@@Antsaboy94 It is here with you already, but we are rarely in tune with it.

[@luisbalduino6811]

Congratulations on this video. The hypothesis you’ve presented in very plausible. The music of Bach is so deep and inspiring that it would not be surprising if he composed with the motivation of reaching union with the divine.

[@Claude_van_Kloten]

That and beer and brandy.👍

[@FilipHolm]

It wasn't an uncommon idea, after all

[@keylanoslokj1806]

He was a very spiritual man of faith. God was his inspiration for most of his masterpieces

[@figmentariumanimation7598]

Really appreciate you man, you’ve taught me so much about both music and religion

[@iyibu01]

Much of Bach's music is totally spiritual.coming from higher spiritual spheres. His soul is full of light and his music manifests this.Divinity is the source of all Light

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

Dear IYIBU sorry , much of Bach's Music comes from COPYING/TRANSCRIBING/REARRANGING someone's other Music ; this is a sad but a honest truth 😢😢

[@Antsaboy94]

​@@mariapiazza-od8ib Bach took that which was ordinary and turned it into transcended.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

@@Antsaboy94 thanks for your attention 🤪😜😋 .. Though remember that BACH was a musical Genius , when he transcribed/copied Vivaldi (the most famous Composer of that time) BACH knew better than you and me that his Music was NOT NORMAL/ORDINARY in noway 🌺🌺

[@Antsaboy94]

@@mariapiazza-od8ib Right. There were instances of Bach borrowing themes and such from exceptional composers as well. That doesn't make what he did with those themes any less impressive.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

​@@Antsaboy94.. This is well said really 😮😮 indeed when me and anybody listen to BACH , we don't visualize/imagine a human being , but instead an almost DIVINE MUSICAL SPIRIT who brings value and hope to our Existence . Stay well 🏵️

[@michelleburkholder2547]

Awesome! The past few years, I've really gotten into classical music. Bourque is my favorite period. Thanks, Philip.

[@FilipHolm]

It's lovely stuff!

[@scronx]

A marvelous exploration -- thank you! You really appreciate his genius and spirit.

[@darrenjurme7231]

This is outstanding, Filip. Thank you so much 🙏🏼 💜

[@michaelg5587]

What a surprise to encounter this familiar face&voice in a Bach video. A man of many talents, excellent work Sir, thank you!

[@pedroviaud2633]

Everything that has breath praise the Lord, the universe itself is praising God, Bach got a glimpse of that majestic sinfónie that is still going on

[@jeffbetts9420]

We should never forget Bach went out of fashion for over 200 years, so while he is revered today it was not always so. We can thank Mendelssohn for the Bach revival.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

JEFFBETS well said , there's more : Bach wasn't FORGOTTEN , nobody knew him during his life , he was INVENTED during 19th century by Mendelssohn and other German Musicologists : a great accomplishment that has at the base BACH'S MUSIC plus a lot of fake attributions . Think of Bach as a Musical Container ; what is Homer for Greek Literature, same is Bach for Baroque Music . All for our pleasure and joy . Cheers 😊

[@tim10243]

@@mariapiazza-od8ib , well, as far as I know, Frederic the great, king of prussia, invited bach to his palace. So Bach could not be totaly unknown during his lifetime ;-)

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

@@tim10243 thanks for your attention 🏵️🌺🏵️ I read a lot about BACH ; to my dismay I had to accept that he was NOT recognized or accepted by his Contemporaries , except on a LOCAL scale . He was Cantor and Organist , not much more ; what BACH published during his lifetime is insignificant . TODAY EVERYBODY GIVES BACH THE DESERVED CREDIT , HE IS THE UNDISPUTED GENIUS AND THE GREATEST MUSICIAN OF ALL TIME . 🏵️🌺🏵️ nonetheless many disputes are still extant on a lot of dubious attributions 🤔🙄🧐 Stay well , have a good life .

[@Tylervrooman]

Greatest composer... Great video!

[@vidyakara]

This wonderful video appeared on my KZbin feed today. Coincidentally, I bought the Cambridge companion to Bach in a second hand bookshop yesterday. Thank you .

[@KC-lc8dx]

Excellent talk!!

[@FilipHolm]

Thank you!

[@enzoarayamorales7220]

I’m not religious and when I listen to Bachs music I absolutely do feel the intentions he had behind it hearing this wasn’t a surprise and I think that’s the beauty of music when it comes form a singular composer, you feel everything they feel about their craft absolutely clearly in a way words can’t describe

[@mr555harv]

I learned this about Bach as a student of the Cello and following the Master Musician Pablo Casals. When Casals conducted Bach he brought out the spiritual aspects better than any other conductor. I would reference Orcestral Suite #3. This video surely reaches for the great and inner meaning of Bach. I look forward to experiencing your music. No one will blame you for not being Bach. I do appreciate your effort.

[@easygreasy3989]

Listening to your song and I love the mood, well layered and powerful❤. Thanks for the vid and the value.

[@FilipHolm]

Thank you!

[@LORDJODYE]

You were my top spotify artist this year, largely thanks to Sinai and Whistle. Thank you for your work

[@FilipHolm]

It's an honor to be your top artist! Thank you for listening!

[@alexandrosalexandropoulos4836]

Excellent video! Greetings from Athens, Greece.

[@ianjamison7872]

Affektenlehre, or “Doctrine of Affects” might be worth looking at in this kind of “philosophy of Baroque music” investigation. This also ties in Descartes’ final philosophical treatise, The Passions of the Soul. Thank you for the great video!

[@michaelcalder9089]

Yes, and the the baroque convention of musical symbolism.

[@billybobthekidiswack]

Oh cool i didn't know the "lets talk religion dude" was a musician as well!

[@Trismhmm]

All of Bach's work is very dedicated to the old worship ways of the Psalms; more specifically, the Psalms of David. He used harmonic principles and silence in between harmonies to build the foundational idea of what Heart Rate Variability is! 💖💞⚡ Indeed, he composed his music as worship and executed it as sermons as well. Gloriousss Gloryyyy. ALL Glory Goes to Adonai. Amen. PRAISE JESUSSSS

[@threethrushes]

Bach is the OG. That is all.

[@sarahzein400]

Thank you, you put my mind at ease 😊

[@Ivan_1791]

Great video man, it taught me a bunch.

[@dkeener13]

Bach's music sparked the first embers of belief in God for me. I get close to tears when I consider those moments in my life.

[@lindacowles756]

G'day, Mr. Holm! Thank you for an interesting and insightful video. As for my two cents worth on this subject, the fact that Bach devoted his work to the glory of God tells me that he did not think music to be God but rather a reflection of and a gift from God.

[@KevinKanthur]

At the end you said "maybe it isn't that deep" haha, I think that's my view but it's very interesting and beautiful to hear about these views. Thank you. I'll 100% listen to your song once it's out.

[@igordrm]

Great video!

[@vijo1353]

Most shocking thing is that there had to be a Bach revival. Not sure to what degree he was forgotten, but still.

[@lucadeieso4815]

He was revered by all the true conoisseurs of music when he was alive and even after his death, since his music was studied by all the greatest composers. With the Bach revival then, finally the general public could hear Bach's music. But he was never really forgotten, for sure

[@chriswalker9478]

It's also interesting that Felix Mendelssohn had a great deal to do with the revival of Bachs music.

[@thescoobymike]

Nina Simone really opened me up to Bach

[@derycktrahair8108]

Bach had a gig where he maintained his family & wrote new stuff every week. He was a good Muso.

[@ChopinIsMyBestFriend]

as a classical musician and amateur scholar of religion. I was confused on whose channel I was listening to hahaha. It began to auto play and I was pleasantly surprised it was a combination of what I love, nice man haha

[@thormusique]

Excellent discussion and topic! Bach is The Man. In him was the perfect coming together of devotion and musical genius. I don't tend to throw the word 'genius' around, but if it applies to anyone, it's certainly the great JSB. I cannot help but have the sense that his music broke upon the world like a giant wave, and now we musicians who have come after try to fashion something meaningful from the ripples and foam left in its wake. I think we would all do well to dig deep and find that devotional sense within us to use as a starting point for the creation of anything. After all, I suspect music - and art in general - would be better served if were to think about something other than its commodification for a change. Cheers!

[@FilipHolm]

Nicely put!

[@davidleesn]

Don’t forget that J.S.Bach substantially also as human being with the same fervor in music making remarried within year after death of first, begot over 21 children and shared bereavement of at least 8 with these 2 beloved partners in life!!

[@stephenlee1756]

Kepler's great book "The Harmony of The World" traces the scientific reasoning behind this harmony, which is the basis of Music, Geometry, Astrology, and the structure of the Solar System.

[@FilipHolm]

Yes! Keplers musical universe is very fascinating

[@mrssibelius]

I would love to read it

[@deboraharmstrong4385]

Have you read Bach and the Dance of God. It's life enhancing, as is his music.

[@crisoliveira2644]

I came for the music, stayed for the philosophy of music. I had no idea you covered such topic.

[@AjJohn-gb4iz]

Nice one again

[@floriandevuyst]

Thank you so much !

[@roberth6375]

Great vid 👍

[@acetaminophetus]

I just realized that you’re a musician AND religious scholar. Sweet.

[@SPscorevideos]

It's also interesting to note that this view of music as "harmonia mundi" (and its being as much perfect as it conveys harmony, balance and a solid structure) was used as a criticism to the post-WWII avant-garde, and contemporary music in general. And also that they never came up with a valid reply.

[@FilipHolm]

Interesting! But how would the ideal harmony, balance and structure be measured?

[@SPscorevideos]

@@FilipHolm Well, if the purpose of such music is exactly to *avoid* harmony and structure, measurements become irrelevant.

[@Claude_van_Kloten]

Modern music should reflect the mathematics of quantum mechanics and relativity.

[@SPscorevideos]

@@Claude_van_Kloten Good luck with that! :D

[@Claude_van_Kloten]

@@SPscorevideos I can't see the collapse of the wave function and the uncertainty principle in Bach. Maybe it’s there but there’s a lot to explore musically in the future.

[@rmschindler144]

your song, Isthmus - man, I am seriously impressed . very, *very* good

[@FilipHolm]

Thank you very much!

[@josephpetrino1741]

Every serious musician (pro or amateur) has asked themselves the question "Am I connecting to something higher?" At times it sure feels that way. It happened sparingly when I was young. More often now in my old age, but not always. Bach had the switch set to "on" all the time I suspect.

[@teachnola10]

My prediction: this is going to be fantastic.

[@FilipHolm]

Well..?

[@teachnola10]

@@FilipHolm I was definitely right. But that’s a pretty easy prediction for both of your channels.

[@ericdelf]

Music is magical.

[@AzothDee]

I can testify this is true. At a tool concert on mushrooms. All I have to say. There is no words for it because it is simply Beauty. And it permeates everything. The first thought after the Awe was how does one live life after this.

[@FilipHolm]

One barely needs any mushrooms when it comes to Tool..

[@fourhemispheres2734]

I’m doing my PhD on the Harmony of the Spheres in Renaissance music! (I’m a Renaissance/Baroque musician.) Let’s be friends ☺️

[@FilipHolm]

I'm down!

[@fourhemispheres2734]

@@FilipHolm yay! 😊

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Merci.

[@buckfred1]

Wonderful! Thank you for all this information! Makes you wonder if Bach knew something of the western mystery traditions, such as cabala or Rosicrucianism’ in which mathematics and mysticism were wed?

[@FilipHolm]

I'd place my bet more on the Pythagorean and Platonic features that was already a major presence in his native Christianity.

[@CTABPOGIN]

I have an identical view in this subject, so I thoroughly enjoyed you video. I'd like to hear your opinion on something I'm working on: do you think a musical piece can be translated to visual language in a way that's somehow true, faithful to the music? With Bach specially I feel that harmonies could be translated to a fractal like object that describes every interval, maybe also rhythm, so that looking at the result you could somehow recognize the original work it is based upon. I'm playing around with some scripts, hope to get results some day with this approach, but I'm dubious if I'm chasing an impossible here.

[@FilipHolm]

Interesting thought! For sure there could be ways to do it, but the question is what methodology woyld you use?

[@CTABPOGIN]

@@FilipHolm I'm envisioning a chromatic circle that leaves a trail to keep record of the whole structure. I keep finding similar attempts, you can check them out in my playlist fractal music

[@CGMaat]

Thank you - love this present -and many of your others -real christmas gift- you are right- it is The sense of the divine- as always a hard problem like consciousness to really acquiesce or measure or define -like Plato’s Agapha dogmata dogmata

[@albertolferro]

Bravo! Delicate topic, perfectly articulated. I have no doubt he would agree with your (Butt’s) argument.

[@GizzyDillespee]

Yeah I'll check out the new track ("Isthmus"?... a good ingredient for a tongue twister) when it's released next week, for sure.

[@FilipHolm]

Hope you'll like it!

[@donaldaxel]

It is cute that you, Filip, takes Bach's description of how and what music is, word for word. Recreation of the soul is in the realm of our world, praise of God is in another world and may be "obllgato" for a person at that time, when religion played such a big role in many communities, being the glue, the moral compas. It's like a mantra.

[@donaldaxel]

The next sentence I read as a message from a musician to people who do not understand music, people who can say things like "let go of all that difficult stuff, key, modulation, harmonies ..." which has been said by people who listen to "rap music". Music can have a quality which is hard to define, but is that which make people listen with love, discovering that this kind of music brings them a spiritual experience so different from a "Ländler", a market song, a village dance.

[@FilipHolm]

Do I? 🙂

[@j.c.dittmerii]

Excellent video! I've always been considering the correlation between music and philosophy as well as how many philosophers also have experience in musicality and vice versa. In being deeply interested in both fields for a significant part of my life, I see music as an art through which philosophy, which is a sort of more transcendent art form, can be represented and communicated. From Pythagoras' idea of "number in time" to the Christian or simply general religious experience of feeling God's presence through beautiful harmonies, the two are fundamentally tied together and who better to study this connection through than JSB himself!

[@maralfniqle5092]

The music of the spheres

[@jamesmurff193]

There was a lot of mathematical context to Bach, besides being a spiritual composer. A lot of the music would loop back on itself. Complex arrangements with the calculation of the note placement would indicate more than just a connection to the church for his music in particular.

[@pwnayr]

"personal copy of biblical commentary" , may i ask to what you are referring to? is it a publication?

[@lindacowles756]

G'day! Bach owned a 3-volume Bible with commentaries by Abraham Calov and Martin Luther. Bach would write notes in the margin when a text impressed him or caused him to think about something applicable to his life. The quote mentioned in this video is an example of a margin note by Bach referring to 2 Chronicles 5:13 and the role of music in worship.

[@petershapiro4247]

these aspects of bach's music become clear when it is no longer performed as moving in time horizontally from here to there, but rather as vertical harmonic progression- phrasing

[@johnhudelson2652]

Something not mentioned is Bach's "Sonatas and Partitas for solo Violin". He had to be intimately familiar with.the violin to write such intricate works suggesting that he was a master violinist.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Or even more impressive he could emulate how it would sound inside his mind

[@claudiopalagini3579]

I read that Bach loved to play viola in the ensemble, when it was possible, to be in the center of the harmony. He probably could play violin too.

[@johnhudelson2652]

@@claudiopalagini3579 Yes, indeed J. S. Bach played violin. Carl Philipp Emmanuel wrote that his father's favorite instrument was the viola. ''In his youth and until the approach of old age, he played the violin cleanly and penetratingly, and thus kept the orchestra in better order than he could have done with the harpsichord".

[@pwnayr]

do you know what Leibniz thought of Spinoza?

[@FilipHolm]

Yes?

[@rafalmika6604]

Truth and only the truth !👍

[@bfuiltugomaith]

Bach’ great prayer to Divinity the Chaconne, my favourite is Segovia’s guitar version …heifitz version on the violin is supreme. Bach was totally self realised.

[@Johannes_Brahms65]

The Brandenburgische Concerten were composed as an example of his skills when he applied for a job at Potsdam.

[@FilipHolm]

Good flex, honestly

[@TehMuNjA]

somethint I’m wondering what role the whole number ratios of just intonation play into the divinity of the music. there is some theory to suggest these harmonies work best in part because many western musical instruments produce sound with a harmonic spectrum, whereas the more metallophone based music of gamelan has instruments with inharmonic spectra and is composed with scales and harmonies foreign to just intonation theory. so, to what extent does this affect the divinity of the music? gamelan certainly has a lot of rhythmic structure and its own kind of harmonic logic, i have no clue what indonesian musicians think about this music metaphysically speaking

[@FilipHolm]

My knowledge of gamelan is very limited, but you definitely raise interesting points. I think it is definitely a worthwhile question how "objective" harmony is vs. culturally conditioned

[@karawethan]

Sethares' "Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale" has a good (if a bit flawed) section on the tuning systems of Javanese gamelan and their relationship to the inharmonic spectra of metallophones. There's a lot of philosophy behind Javanese/Balinese gamelan, but it's not at all the kind of mathematical, "harmony of the spheres" philosophy of European art music. It's much more about symbolic associations. Intervals do not have a mathematical ideal, and can vary considerably in practice.

[@karawethan]

I would add that gamelan is not really based around harmonies at all but rather movement from one unison to another. Every instrument has its own way of filling in the intervening space, which results in a rich heterophonic texture punctuated by moments of clarity when everything converges.

[@musicarroll]

According to Tröster, Bach wrote the B minor mass as an audition piece for a job in Dresden, to which he was applying just prior to his death. He was trying to impress the Catholic regent there with what he could do with the ordinary of the mass. It is very likely that he would have beeen required to convert in order to take up that post. So, his commitment to Lutheranism was perhaps not as strong as it might otherwise seem. He died before he could be fully considered for the post.

[@lucadeieso4815]

I don’t understand your message, since Bach wrote only the Kyrie and Gloria for the court of Dresden, and so a Lutheran mass.. only in his final years it became the Mass in B Minor as we know it. And it’s not true that Bach wasn't considered for the post, because for his Kyrie and Gloria (and several other cantatas for birthdays and name days of the royal family) was granted with the title of church composer of the court of dresden in 1736...

[@simonh9806]

One subject I miss here is the fact that Bach, beeing an Orthodox Lutheran, still composed a Roman Catholic Mass.

[@russellbaston974]

He did that for the prospects of earning commissions, from Catholic sources.

[@simonh9806]

​Sure. Still an interesting fact ​@@russellbaston974

[@saeadborji1464]

Thanks. Why in different channel. Fits well the "lets talk religeon"

[@FilipHolm]

It coul definitely work on both. Wanted to give some content to this channel, and it leans a bit more into music

[@saeadborji1464]

​@@FilipHolm Bach music is more of a religion than music. I had some experiences with BACH (some 30 years ago) before even I knew his name. It is proven to me that his music is divine

[@manuelgonzales6483]

J S Bach RULES!!!🥳

[@stephanpopp6210]

So how does this fit with Bach's coffee cantata?

[@VeganWithAraygun]

OK as Terrence McKenna said, when discussing the Heroic dose (paraphrased) sure, " Bach is God, we KNOW that already!" ...& he still is to me.. But to be sure if we're talking about Divine Harmonies, Henry Purcell was no slouch either. 🙏🏼 Please make a video on him too?! Bach & Handel were only 10 when Henry died. I imagine those two bowing in reverence at Purcell's crypt in Westminster Abbey having read the plaque of dedication to his Harmonies., ....the same sentiment of reverence that Beethoven proclaimed he'd do kneeling at Handel's crypt there in Poet's corner. Id do likewise for those 4, & Palestrina too ❤

[@burkhardstackelberg1203]

For me, your ideas on Bach's philosophy are indeed plausible -- Bach created a music that mastered virtually all traditions available to him, being of timeless perfection to his past and future. This didn't come without purpose.

[@musamusashi]

As a regular follower of your other channel, who is also a musician, i found great pleasure in discovering this new (to me) channel of yours and you dealing with this topic so crucial to me. Alongside Bach, the other great figure that deserves to be investigated in regard to this topic, is that of John Coltrane.

[@FilipHolm]

Oh for sure! Would love to cover him sometime

[@musamusashi]

@@FilipHolm will look forward to it, in shaa Allah. If you were ever to travel to Kenya, my family and i would love to have you as a guest in our farm. Peace!

[@bobsturgess1796]

Bach is to music as Shakespeare is to literature or Newton is to physics.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

A very HARD PROBLEM for a Musicologist or perhaps a Sociologist is too explain WHY nobody praised Bach during his lifetime (the respected Organist in Leipzig Basilica) ; not even his Brandenburg Concerts ; and then after Mendelssohn's discovery , Bach progressively became the utmost Musical Genius 🎉🎉🎉 Thanks for explaining.

[@theeleventhdoctor2043]

It’s always funny whenever I go to Catholic weddings how often the music of the arch-Protestant Bach is played 😂

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

🎉🎉🎉 dear Friend , are you sure it's not VIVALDI arranged by Bach ???

[@DeBaambrugseBand-en9yd]

J. S. Bach was Brian Wilsons favorite classical composer. Brian Wilson himself once said: "God is music''.

[@jaema8281]

Woah, do you run Let's Talk Religion as well? I instantly recognized your voice from all my nights sleeping to your Neoplatonism videos. This is awesome though! I'm really enamored with these deeper dives into sides of Bach we don't even think about it!

[@FilipHolm]

I do! Glad to hear my videos are soothing enough to sleep to!

[@jaema8281]

@@FilipHolm that's so awesome! Genuinely amazing content and got me really into early church history! And they are only after the first few listens so the intrigue doesn't keep me awake and wanting me ; ) I wish you best with all of your content! Really great stuff!

[@charlesgrant-skiba5474]

Great composers are like the Himalayas. Above them there is only the sky, and higher up Bach begins...

[@ricochetsixtyten]

The way Bach dissed bad music back in the 1700s, gonna steal that one, devilish bawling and droning... damn, I've heard some mainstream music like that, not gonna name names.

[@Jesuswinsbirdofmichigan]

#141_comment_@Nov30-2023. AgreeThat GOD is. And so as HIS creation we have various means to approach & share with God. Interesting topic presented and know you'll get recognition, and glad you shared on KZbin.✡️✝️

[@BuJammy]

Bach, music for lovers....... of algebra.

[@ericgrosch8073]

An example of an element of the doctrine of affections arguably occurs in the following chorale: (German to English translation): Brich an, o schönes Morgenlicht, Break forth, o lovely light of morning, Und laß den Himmel tagen! and let heaven dawn! Du Hirtenvolk, erschrecke nicht, You shepherd-folk, do not fear, Weil dir die Engel sagen, because the angel tells you Daß dieses schwache Knäbelein that this weak little boy Soll unser Trost und Freude sein, shall be our comfort and joy, Dazu den Satan zwingen Shall compel Satan thereto Und letztlich Friede bringen! and shall finally bring peace! The alternating notes in the bass, accompanying "dazu den Satan zwingen," arguably symbolizes the struggle that Jesus has with Satan, in Hell (symbolized by the bass, because the bass, the lowest pitch, symbolizes the lowest region, Hell), in persuading Satan to accept that He, Jesus, is "unser Trost und Freude" (our comfort and joy). The doctrine of affections, I think, is an invention, probably, of the 20th century, or maybe earlier, but probably not earlier than the 19th century, so it seems unlikely that Bach was ever aware of it, yet the foregoing symbolism seems clear and nearly irrefutable, so, if Bach was unaware of the doctrine of affections, as such, he seems to have been aware of musical symbolism and enthusiastic in creating it.

[@PozitiveBalance]

It might feel good, it might sound a little somethin' But damn the game if it don't mean nothin -john butt

[@arbitrarium7336]

Perhaps in a metaphysical way Bach is a reincarnation Al Buchari. a significant founder of a genre.😅

[@FilipHolm]

As in Bukhari the hadith-scholar?

[@cuauhxochitzin]

Some one, buy two shirts; one for this guy and another one for me, please!

[@friedricengravy6646]

Art history in general (all mediums) up to a certain date, had a connection to divinity because practically every person believed in God & were living under biblical law. Its the same explanation for the argument that science came from the church. Not really, but it can appear this way because every scientist started from that religious place, from a mind set that knew nothing other.

[@larsio72]

From the quotes that you are presenting Bach sounds like he was alligning himself a bit with pietism.

[@dangandee3184]

Bach was a Rosicrucian; a student of the Mysteries. His music is Perfect because it came directly from God. It always speaks to my soul. I highly suggest listening to it during meditation. 🌹➕ 🔺️🔻.

[@mariapiazza-od8ib]

Dear DANGANDEE , sorry ; Bach's Music is perfect because most of the time it's a copy/transcription of some other Authors' music . And most of the time it's NOT Bach's plagiarism , but instead fake attributions made by dishonest Musicologists in the 19th century 😢😢 Stay well.