Film negatives: So many things can go wrong

[@retromograph3893]

Personally i love all those imperfections, it's why i shoot analog. Of course, i want to minimize them, but i will never do any digital fixing, I'll live with and learn to love them!

[@skunklungz]

this is a great video, thanks for pointing out and warning us about so many different issues we could have. You explained them and gave us information we could use to prevent them as much as possible. Amazing :)

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Thanks for your comments! Hopefully there aren't too many familiar situations in there for you!

[@SinaFarhat]

Thanks for the tip regarding the lines in the negative caused by dust when the frame is moved forward! Keep up the good work!

[@theblackandwhitefilmproject]

Great video.1. I use vinyl disposable latex free gloves as used for food preparation. Really cheap and effective. Stops the sweats when loading the reel and also for handling negatives. Very thin so no loss of feeling. Cotton gloves spill dust no matter how expensive. 2. I have had 3 wavy lines all the way along the top of the negative. I use a Paterson 2x35mm reel tank- 290ml 1 roll or 500ml 2 rolls. I figured maybe not enough chemicals so I now develop with some overage and seems to be sorted. 3. I have not had much luck with Paterson Reels. When the reel is about 3/4 loaded it jams up , stops loading and kinks the negative. I use a film picker so the end is already neatly trimmed. I upgraded to Omega Reels which fit the Paterson tank and the problem is solved. 4. I often had water spots on the negative from drying even with using Photo Flo and distilled water. I use a wet and rung out chamois cloth for 1 pass down the negative before hanging. This is so soft no chance of scratch marks from fingers or the now binned Paterson Film Squeegee which is particularly bad. I love film. & B+W. As you say so much an go wrong but when it all comes together it is magic. Cheers!

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Thanks for the tips! I really should try the Omega Reels.

[@Jerbod2]

I had film jamming in my paterson reels as well, try deepcleaning the reel, its probably sticky. Fixed it for me.

[@karlgustafson179]

Great video. Unique, and very helpful. Subscribed!

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Glad you liked it!

[@NicholasAndre1]

FYI with those little chemical/water marks: I started making photo flo with distilled water. I think for black and white you can technically get away with just distilled water final rinse but with color you are supposed to use the stabilizer. Distilled really cuts down on all those mineral marks and things on the film. Some of those look like you might be able to remove them with an additional wash; I think the one thing to be careful of is older color films that required the formaldehyde based stabilizer to prevent fading.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Good to know about the distilled water. Here in Vancouver our water is incredibly soft so we don't have too many problems with minerals, but if it works I'll certainly give it a try.

[@akeeh]

Interesting video and tips. Couple weeks ago I finally developed one TMAX 400 roll that had been sitting in storage for three years and maybe 1/4 of the film had backing numbers very visible after developing. Interesting to know that it was a broader problem (bad of course for people who got photos ruined), I wasn't aware of that earlier and I was wondering how did they appear on the negatives. Not a nice surprise but luckily not the most important photos.

[@larsbunch]

You point out some blotchy spots on a couple of negatives at 17:42 and mention it was on old film. I’m wondering if it could be mildew damage on the emulsion. I have many rolls of Orwo film that was kept in a warm, humid environment. A few rolls have pin holes in the wrapper. When I opened them, I could smell mildew on the film rather than the usual minty fresh smell (Not sure why, Orwo from the mid-1980s smells minty) When developed, I had a LOT of these sorts of spots. (I have some shots on my instagram feed @larsbunch - They should be pretty obvious for looking like they were printed on very fibrous paper.) Another issue I’ve run into is with Arista EDU 100 and Foma 100 ISO black and white film. I, and many others, have complained of getting tiny magenta spots on the negative. Apparently the anti-halation backing wasn’t clearing fully. This was limited to only a few batches of the 100 and 400 ISO films and I haven’t seen the problem in recent batches. Foma’s recommendation was to soak the film in 40% ethanol for 45 minutes, agitating every 5 minutes or so. Straight ethanol is not easy to get in the US so I just used cheap 88 proof vodka (which is more or less the same thing) and it worked well.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Thanks for the suggestions. It could very well be mildew, but the film isn't too old - just a few years. Admittedly, it is expired but it is also TXP320 from not THAT long ago.. Your comments on the magenta spots - thanks also for that. I expect that is what happened in my example at 19:04. I usually do a pre-soak of my film and it hasn't been an issue. But then nothing is an issue until after the film is processed.

[@joedonohoe22]

Great video! Any ideas as to what caused that cluster of white specks at 1:35? I’ve been getting similar on my 35mm B&W negs. I live in a hard water area so could be calcium deposits from the tap water?

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Could be. Are you processing yourself or sending it to a lab? If it is going to a lab then it might be a roller-smudge-issue, but only if they use a roller-transport machine to process the film. 35mm and BW is generally done on reels, which wouldn't suffer from the roller-transport issue. It could very well be calcium (or lime) deposits on the film. If it looks like crystals in any way (like frost forming on a window) then it might well be chemistry that hasn't been washed clear. See the example at 11:22.

[@joedonohoe22]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Yes, I develop at home. I used purified water for all my chemistry in my last batch and the amount of white clusters had reduced, but not gone completely. I often have issues rolling the film onto the plastic reel - it starts winding fine, but 2/3rds in the roll starts to get tight/resistant. I keep going until the end, by which time the tension feels normal again. Sounds like that could be a culprit?

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

@@joedonohoe22 I doubt the tight reels are the culprit - but they may be if the film is getting really close together in such a way that it's restricting the flow of water to wash away the residue. Do you use hypo clear? I found that helped - and changing the water a LOT. And lots of agitation when I was washing the film. Otherwise, it sounds like you're doing everything right. Very strange...

[@joedonohoe22]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I developed another roll last night. Used de-ironised water to mix the developer and the final rinse with photo-flo. No white clusters! It must have been the lime in the water. Thanks for all your input and advice. Very useful video.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

@@joedonohoe22 Good news! I'm glad the film is clear. Tracking down those issues can be a real challenge sometimes. Thanks for letting me know.

[@Jerbod2]

Those kinks is what got me. Damn, I had a paterson reel that would just block the film from going further or getting out again, kinks in the film (120 ilford HP5) and it'd leave these wrinkles or curvy light streaks as I called and googled them. Nothing to be found right. Well finally I found someone with similar issues.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

It's a strange one. I have no idea specifically how the film gets fogged when it is kinked, but it has happened enough to me so that I cringe every time the film doesn't go smoothly on to the reel.

[@Jerbod2]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I found a roll of film from the 60's still in a camera I bought online. Developed it and as I used to cut the film (the tape part) in my bathroom in the dark I swear I saw it glow right where I cut the film. It MAY have been the scissor reflecting, but as the room was as dark as I could get it I doubt that. Anyway, the film contained pictures still and I emailed them to the woman that sold me the camera. Contained pictures of her with her mom, her mom died when she was 10 years old so naturally she barely had any puctures of her and thus was very happy with the pictures.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

@@Jerbod2 What a great story! Imagine being able to find some photos from decades ago. And although I can't say for sure in your experience, I have definitely seen light come from the tape at the end of the roll when I peeled it off - so cutting the tape might well do the same thing.

[@Jerbod2]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I wonder why I cant find any info on that online though, perhaps the chemistry changed through the years.

[@iNerdier]

The only thing I’ve had what might be air bubbles on was x-ray film I had cut up to use in my 5x4. Covered in what looked almost like chicken pox, uneven but entirely across the sheet little dots. That only happened with a certain developer/processing combination, I think rodinal and tray. Really weird but then so has been all of my experience with X-ray film, given its both double sided and extremely soft.never could get good images from it reliably but it was free so the price was right I suppose?

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Hard to argue with free, and hard to work with x-ray film. That said, even if x-ray film is such a challenge, I would love to try it out.

[@melody3741]

Those speckles are probably either some sort of fungus, bits of undissolved developer or fixer if you use powder, or the film reacting over time as it is old. Possibly triggered by moisture.

[@dalehammond1749]

A very thorough video indeed. Here's some bad humor. When I started developing my own film, I didn't get an image until I purchased a light pad.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Thanks - glad you liked the video.

[@chrishb7074]

Some of the black and white 120 films have dark fog along the edges. Are the film spools getting bent out of shape when they're moved from the giving end in the camera back to the receiving end? Or is it the Paterson spirals stressing the film before development? I saw coloured spots once on black and white prints, but that turned out to be our new kitten had peed in the print washer. Probably thought it was a special flushing litter tray.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

I think for the 120 that bit of fog is from a lack of tolerance on the spool edges - all you need is a tiny bit of play and the edges get fogged. For the cat's contribution to this conversation, I can't say that would be something that I would ever have thought of!

[@niallchapman7655]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge in this way - there are so many videos showing "how easy it is" to home develop, but none that I've found which deal with how to interpret the results when things go wrong. I'm just starting with home film developing, and did a small test strip, and it came out really bad, and I didn't know which of the multiple possible ways in which I could have made a mistake was the actual culprit. Seeing your examples of what each mistake looks like helped me figure out that I must have unknowingly partially exposed the undeveloped film at some point, as it was dark right to the edge, all the way along. I was looking for exactly this kind of video, and it really helped me :) I will likely come back to this video numerous times until I learn to do it right >_

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Glad my foibles could be helpful. Good luck with processing!

[@anonharingenamn]

Cool video. I recently managed to "clean" a roll of film by submerging it in fixer a second time (Identical bottle to photoflo). Mistakes get made, thankfully I'm new to film so I'll blame it on that!

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

I have done that before, too! I also once poured the fixer back into my developer bottle ruining both the fix and the developer, but thankfully not the film.

[@anonharingenamn]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I've been thinking about buying bottles of different colors to make sure it's almost impossible. Perhaps traffic lights can influence which colors I pick.

[@dongxu2059]

So interesting. I tend to have problem with larger negatives, specially the 8x10 negatives. I am not sure if it s me doing it wrong when developing, I shake the tank long enough but still the films is not developed evenly across this large negative

[@dongxu2059]

by watching your video, It seems to me I am not using enough chemistry

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

That would be my first question - enough chemistry and mixing it thoroughly before you start processing. 8x10 is notorious for streaking no matter how careful you are. Another option is pre-soaking the film. Some people swear by it; others think it’s not important. Good luck!

[@gschissler]

Fantastically helpful video; great to have all of these compiled into one resource. Thank you. I have run an some issues with C41 developing that I haven't been able to resolve - 120 film and 35mm both developed in the same chemicals, same equipment (paterson tank), same process; however the 120 comes out perfect and clean and the 35mm always has what looks like water/chemical spots that remain on the non-emulsion side of the film after the film is dried. I end up resorting to breathing on the negative and wiping them off which occasionally results in some scratches, but better than chemical splotches. Annoying nonetheless. Have you had any experience with this in your own experience?

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

I haven't had any experience with that issue. I'm wondering if the difference between 35mm and 120 is because the base is different (thinner) on 120. This doesn't sound like a processing issue as you can remove the stains afterwards. Are you using a drying aid of some sort? PhotoFlo or some other surfactant? Are you squeegeeing the film before you hang to dry? (personally, I don't but the water where I am is supremely soft). You could try doing your Photo-Flo and final wash step in purified or distilled water to ensure the last water that touches it is mostly mineral-free. That's all I can think of. Sorry to hear about that - it's tough when unknown things like that happen.

[@gschissler]

​@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird I appreciate the ideas! My best guess has also been something to do with the inherent difference in the base between 35mm and 120 film since all other variables are the same. I haven't been using photoflo+distilled water, but that's worth trying out. The last step has been the unicolor stabilizer (all chemicals mixed w/ distilled water) with a single squeegee pass with a couple clean fingers. This last step is the exactly same with both types of film however only the 35mm ends up with splotches. Thanks again

[@randallstewart175]

The tiny, round spots of under-developed film on the 120 roll are not the result of poor agitation as such, and they are not related to "eddies" at the edge of the film. They are called "air bells". On some combinations of film, developer and reels, usually plastic reels, as the result of routine agitation, small air bubbles become lodged along the edge of the film emulsion where next to the reel flange. This prevents developer from reaching that spot of emulsion, causing some degree of under-development. The common technique is to give the tank a sharp rap on the counter after agitation to dislodge such air bubbles. Apparently not part of his technique.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

My explanation comes from a good friend who had processed thousands of rolls. Regardless, I think you and I are roughly on the same page - namely the developer can't reach the film for some reason. I do pound my developing tank fairly aggressively, but I think the plastic reels have something to do with it, for sure. More testing is required.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

I have a dozen rolls of film I shot in New Mexico over the last 10 days or so - I'm going to track down some stainless reels and tanks and see if that makes a difference.

[@carlitodcreative]

Maybe the water? I bought a Brita filter and I am filtering the water for both mixing and washing.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Could very well be. Some people wash with distilled water but where I’m from (Vancouver) the water is pretty soft, thankfully, and I don’t see the need. Regardless, fresh chemistry and pure water are always important.

[@RedStarRogue]

Lived in Vancouver for years so I know all these locations lol. I recently developed a C-41 negative and the colours came out slightly off. Realized later I hadn't property checked the temperature of the chemistry.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

It's a bit of a dead-giveaway where I live! As for the C-41, oh, yeah, I have done that, too. Temperature is pretty critical. Hopefully the new colours were either pleasing or you could 'fix' them in post.

[@retromograph3893]

Get yourself a Cinestill TCS-1000, great for controlling temperature .........

[@randallstewart175]

On one hand, I like the idea of pointing out that mistakes can be made, and film processing is not something you can expect to pull off after watching a 15 minute YT video. On the other hand, I hate the suggestion that the process is burdened by an endless number of technical traps which will destroy hundreds of dollars of film before you get it right, with the added implication that such may never happen. Most of these problems connect directly to poor techniques and practices, which commonly result from simply failing to education yourself to the required processes before just launching into it on the assumption that it will all work out some how. YT is not a reliable resource to learn photo-processing. Ilford has a group of videos on their website which do the job. Any number of books from before the internet are out there to teach various levels from basic on up, but I guess that's not cool enough these days. Frankly, I've never seen any one person produce so many negatives which have been physically damaged from poor processing or mis-handling after processing in so many different ways.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

I went through probably 1000 rolls of film to find these issues. Possibly more. I shoot a lot of film and I wanted to create a bit of a database about 'what happened to my film?', because I regularly see people posting a photo of a messed up roll of film asking, 'what happened'. Most, if not all, were my errors, (as I think I pointed out in the intro) and thankfully my film these days is generally trouble-free. Practice makes perfect.

[@dankspangle]

When you have white spots on your images and you spend ages wondering what's wrong with your chemicals or agitation or light box. And after much more time than you'd care to admit you notice that the spots are in the same position on every image. You photograph negatives in a mask using a digital camera and there's dust on the sensor.

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Hopefully they weren't too bad!

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

Or worse, you look and look, trying to figure out what went wrong with those spots... And then it turns out they're just a part of the image. That happened too me a few times, too.

[@dankspangle]

@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Have you ever spent a while wondering why Photoshop's spot healing brush isn't working, then you realise the spot is dirt on your screen?

[@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird]

@@dankspangle Not that I'll admit to, that's for sure. I actually make a note to clean my screen fairly often for exactly that reason.

[@MilosBencic]

you can ask for refund there for scratched film