Civilization 5 - Filthy's Wonder Tier List

[@Arbal3st]

Great Lighthouse - situationally game-breaking...and that situation is being England.

[@thebravegallade731]

+StyxTBuferd basically you build the heck out of longbowmen for 2 range machine guns.

[@Myuseu]

The best part is you don't need to waste hammers building it, it has to be a coastal city so your SotLs can take it easily!

[@thebravegallade731]

Alsiexmon In maps smaller than 4, this is actually pretty viable. Larger? You might be too far away to effectivly fight them. On king games I manage to snag both the lighthouse and the colosus. Those two together makes costal sooo good.

[@lieutenantstalin7946]

Nah, the free lighthouse works wonders. Such at ime saver, and you can work on your starter policy.

[@StyxTBuferd]

***** As England you'll probably want Exploration anyway. They're just so good at coastal warfare that the infrastructural bonuses that Exploration provides (all unique to coastal cities) outweigh the bonuses of Commerce. I suppose you don't need GL with England as much as, say, Netherlands or Carthage- civs who also have naval bonuses but are much worse at waging sea warfare. Denying it from your opponents will, however, make the game pretty much a win for you on Archipelago and an almost guaranteed win on anything other than Pangea. The fact is, as England, you know you want to wage naval warfare. So investing in GL means you're going to get a return on that investment as long as you make it to renaissance.

[@rareadamcasts]

infantry to mech infantry is 10 gold to upgrade... you save 3 gold with pentagon yay

[@TheAzureNightmare]

Have you never used Honor as a tree?

[@ddshocktrooper5604]

Truncates down to the nearest increment of 5 gold... so no change.

[@MsZsc]

In singleplayer it’s something kinda nice for the ai to waste time on

[@nitpicker9406]

That awesome moment when you build Petra in Warsaw with 12 desert hill and a few hill desert sheep with a ducal stable.

[@Inc1neRyu]

Have fun spawning that

[@Anolaana]

necroing but Exactly Ryu -- poland start bias is plains! :D

[@Inc1neRyu]

I did have a game where i was close to desert, but i had to give up a coastal plains hill and move inland in order to get petra. Decided against doing do.

[@tyronejenson2929]

That happened to me one time and I fucked it up and had to make a new game 😂

[@Colteor7761]

@@tyronejenson2929 how do you fuck that up? Declare war on Attila and delete your units?

[@FilthyRobot]

@Dantes reeves Oxford is a national wonder, everyone gets to build one, this was solely a discussion of the World Wonders

[@misteratoz]

+FilthyRobot Can you do a video on naval units/warfare?

[@cah11111]

Great video Filthy, incidentally if i ever play a game with you I will make sure to build Pentagon purely for your amusement.

[@Ismaelz]

I'm used to build it when I have large armies. Maybe it's not the best idea. I'll think about that in game the next time...

[@rheiagreenland4714]

Then build the Kremlin and put the free policy into Aesthetics

[@appropriate-channelname3049]

It’s worth it if your going xcoms and build up a ton of paratroopers

[@neoman289151]

CN Tower would be cool if it wasn't locked all the way in the info era. You get broadcast towers in the modern era, by the time you get telecommunications you'll already have one in every city.

[@General12th]

Victor Viridian I deliberately avoid building broadcast towers so I didn't waste the production by the time I build CN Tower. It hasn't backfired on me yet.

[@MsZsc]

+Jordan Shank but you'd be missing out on a lot of culture.

[@fowlmouth824]

It was wonderful when you'd conquered a couple of civs and their cities were just stagnant and feeling like swimming with lead ankles. Build this and the whole conquering effort suddenly seemed worth it!

[@martindouge4504]

I guess by that point you would have done most of the conquering you need though. Later on is just a question of taking in cities that are probably already developped since they'd be the Capitals/Secondary cities of other Civs.

[@fowlmouth824]

Well the conquering you need compared to the conquering one feels compelled to do! Depends on the play style to be honest. If you're quite isolationist (tall, or whatever) at the start then a late game rush to grab developed cities is fine, and this helps with them all suddenly losing half their population. It's a pretty unique scenario though I grant you!

[@stuartconrod8364]

For anyone looking to apply this video to single-player Civ vs. AI (Emperor and above), apply the following changes: - Ancient era wonders are almost irrelevant because you can't get them. The AI will almost certainly build them first; plans to get them almost cripple you longterm. - Classic/Medieval wonders have similar drawbacks, BUT are sometimes buildable. You must rush for them but getting, say, Petra is possible on a good start if you move quick. - All tourism Wonders become more valuable than listed here; Tourism wins ARE plausible vs AI. Most of those wonders become T3 to T4 - helpful but not gamechangers alone. - Porcelain Tower is better because AI will still make research agreements with you. - CN Tower is less bad if you've gotten a wide empire (implausibly wide for multiplayer). This is better the wider your empire is. 6FFA Quick Speed you'll never get large enough to make this any good, but in a vs. AI domination game this can be a lot of population, and a net happiness up combined with happiness policies and/or wonders. - Neuschwanstein and Kremlin are less bad because you can more easily spare or steal your way over to Railroad tech for them. The science race is less critical.

[@equilintogo5378]

one more thing to apply is: if you DO plan to do conquest, you can leave it to AI to build it then you take it from them, especially ones without specific city need to shine, and ones without instant bonuses (temple of artemis, statue of zeus, great lighthouse)

[@Paynovski]

You can still get a various number of ancient wonders atleast on Emperor. Great Library is certainly all the time gone, but ToA and Hanging Gardens are possibly. Deity however is a whole other level

[@qqtrol1774]

@@Paynovski You can still get a lot of them on immortal, once I even managed to get Hanging Gardens on Deity because non oher civ went tradition.

[@stuartconrod8364]

@@ColourlessGreen-b5z I don't think there's any difference in the AI's decision-making between Settler and Deity, just vast amounts of cheats.

[@Trenacetate43]

On Emperor you can get anything even GL. Immortal some wonders you beeline you will get it. On deity, GL are impossible but Hanging Gardens or Petra are possible if you beeline it and are ahead and had a good start

[@socialist-strong]

Porcelain tower is a great single player wonder. Worth it in that scenario almost exclusively though.

[@Anolaana]

True -- but note that he makes videos for the FFA-MP crowd without the AI :)

[@giantcawk9616]

@@Anolaana just like the wonders, he plays in extremely situational scenarios.

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

I only play single player on epic (i think. Almost slowest speed anyway. Like building a road is 4 turns) and his points are good enough to see the logic in them and how they can be applied to single player games.

[@TimTimSalabim]

Started playing this game recently and I have to say the way you thoroughly break down each topic in this series is outstanding. By far the most helpful Civ 5 videos I've found on KZbin.

[@MrMcstrong]

22:23 while talking about the statue of liberty, i think to myself: "Only one civ can fully enjoy the benefits of freedom." This seems like a real world quote an anarchist/humanist (or similar) would say.

[@quentinboswell6720]

until you remember there are actually two statue of liberties. one in us and the other in france

[@PatrickCarrick]

Filthy this is awesome! So much information, it's unreal. I've been playing Civ since Civ II Gold. I think I might have been playing the earlier versions, but that's what I remember. I've never played at your level. Great job with the video.

[@FilthyRobot]

+Patrick Carrick Thanks mate!

[@theMosen]

Neuschwanstein is pronounced: noi-shvan-shtine.

[@Vladi_AK47]

moismyname new - shwan - shtain

[@zondaboy6493]

@@Vladi_AK47 no.

[@markuskorpela5531]

New - shoe - shine

[@hatchingdraggon8073]

@@markuskorpela5531 Finally someone cleared it up, thanks Markus!

[@MsZsc]

Get the cool, get the new shoe shine

[@mikhailvasilyev6551]

Can't wait for unique unit tier list.

[@financialstablility7196]

Neither can I.

[@KillinTime2792]

Longbow>Battering Ram>Everything else

[@villekuismin277]

More like Ship of the Line > Camel Archer > everything else

[@Comand94]

@@financialstablility7196 God, I love how the original comment is 4 years old and the response is only 10 months old. Makes it absolutely comical.

[@eddiekoski]

@@KillinTime2792 camel archers beat all

[@Ramschat]

The Pentagon has one use and one use only for me: upgrading landsknechte to pillaging helicopter gunships in the late game, if I want to cripple an opponent by taking out luxuries and/or strategics like uranium and aluminium. With the honor-policy they actually are cheap enough to pay for themselves if they can pillage enough. It really works when promotion saving is on so you can get the extra movement promotions.

[@findernightrose]

Gotta remember when you are saying you have no idea why they are in the game, when you are playing single player you are playing a different type of game and going for different victory conditions.

[@DeadKnight08]

Craig Smith, he specifically states at the beginning of the video that this is for multiplayer with no quitters mod

[@horatiovelvetine8194]

DeadKnight08 that wasn’t OP’s point. The wonders are still there for the single player, Filthy is just saying it has no place in multiplayer or whatever

[@ryanbarber7618]

Hey man I've been watching your videos for a while and I think that you're an absolute hidden gem on youtube. Just stumbling upon your videos I am so lucky and happy to have found this. You don't receive as much credit as I think you deserve. Keep it up buddy

[@njreiswig]

Great video, any chance we can get a mini video ranking the natural wonders? Maybe talk about which one's are worth going to war over, which are worth expanding too far away, and which one's are just plain bad?

[@scrubadumb]

The ones that give food are good, and all others except fountain of youth aren't worth going out of your way to get.

[@FilthyRobot]

mindexplosion2012 Faith ones are decent too.

[@remdawgv]

Can't wait for the NQ Pro players tier list.

[@Tatherwood]

I seem to recall another stupid strong effect of the Hanging gardens (maybe not in the mod). It allowed you to make the gardens EVEN in a city NOT next to a river, which is a requirement for the garden iirc. So you get the +6 food, which is god-tier, but then you also happen to get a garden in a city that would never have gotten one (provided your capital is not on river, or you have the hammers to make the HG in an expand).

[@Isaac-un4cn]

CN Tower: actually it gives you a net gain to happiness if you have the freedom tenant for half happiness with specialists and haven't filled all of your engineer slots. This is reasonably significant if you have a lot of cities. It also gives you extra happiness if you have forbidden palace + aristocracy. I'm not saying it's a great wonder, but I wouldn't put it at the same level as Cristo / Pentagon

[@equilintogo5378]

By that time you should already have your happiness and golden ages stabilized (perma GA or no GA) anyway, because ideology policies give so much happy. It is just way too late.

[@P4r4k]

Great tier list. Do you think it would be a nice idea to make a Combat Units tier list?(I'm kinda new to the game so I dont know whats worth producing or not)

[@FilthyRobot]

Been considering it, dunno

[@lexxon11]

FilthyRobot Yes Please a Combat Units Tier List Please !!!!!

[@MsZsc]

+Mike Nie every unit in the game has it's role. It really depends what you're trying to do.

[@FilthyRobot]

MrZsc Nah. In vanilla lancers, swordsmen, catapults, the entire tank line, AT guns, jet fighters, and mechanized infantry are all pointless

[@MsZsc]

some are a lot more situational, but they can have their uses. I use lancers to pillage occationally.

[@dalmacietis]

I wasn't aware science and culture victories are so looked down on / rare in competitive games. Are they more achievable on standard or epic speed?

[@eragon78]

+dalmacietis, I'm not a pro player, so I may be wrong on this, but I don't usually like science or culture victories because they're almost ALWAYS the first victories to be achieved making having other victories pretty much pointless [and lets face it, domination is the most fun usually]. Culture victory, if being attempted by an experienced player, can be done during mid game play before even the industrial era has started. One example is to get the Byzantines, get the first religion, enhance it first, get the +2 tourism per religious building, and get an extra religious building. Then city spam a bit, get +2 per, then meet every other civ with astronomy. You'll win shortly after since you'll be getting +4-6 tourism PER city. Science victory isn't much better, as by the time you get to very late game and are just getting the best units, someone is already going for a science victory making even bothering with late game units pointless. What you should be doing is either building tons of nukes to stop other civs from getting a science victory, or going for it yourself. Doing anything else will most likely cost you the game. Because of this, most people don't like playing with these two victories since they'll almost always beat out a domination [unless someone gets a good start with Attilla or something and is with less experienced players] and almost always beats out diplomatic as well. Culture will almost always be the first victory, followed closely by science, then a toss up for domination and diplomatic. [and I honestly don't know anyone who likes time]

[@stuartconrod8364]

*Culture Victory:* These more or less depend on your opponents letting it happen; it's not actually that hard to out-culture all the tourism possible for a VERY long time. You can sometimes cheese out a futurism victory but these are visible coming from a freaking mile away and simply don't work if even one player decides to throw their guilds up and work them hard for quite a while, as well as grabbing some Cultural city-states. *Science Victory:* You often win with science, but not specifically the Science victory. You need to have Nanotechnology AND Particle Physics AND to build the Apollo Program AND to build several extremely hammer-intensive spaceship parts in order to go to space to win. In reality if you get that deep in the tech tree and your opponents aren't hopelessly far behind they'll probably go Nanotech or Stealth themselves (remember, you need TWO end-tree techs and some time, they just need one) and then they bum-rush you. If they aren't in a position to try this, you can win the science victory if you don't feel like simply winning Domination instead... and before any of those, your opponents will probably just concede the game if they can see this coming and can't stop it.

[@BlitZnGodzilla117]

Always cool to see the multiplayer view things in this game. Great video!

[@lord6617]

Talking about wonders for liberty vs tradition could be a nice addition. Oracle is extremely nice for liberty for example, as it gets you to your final policy quicker, which could mean an extra 15-20 turns of Academy science or A great engineer for something.

[@SpikeWolf13]

You give such detailed guides... I'm a casual player and about 70% of this goes over my head. Then again, I don't really play multiplayer, but just against comps (now on King difficulty).

[@TheKingAJ4Ever]

If u build the great wall, u deny others from building it. Making ur conquests ez

[@254zero]

While covering your back with an awesome defensive wonder.

[@TheDanzomida]

Thanks again filthy for another fantastically useful and interesting video. Your explanations are clear, and thorough, and you're clearly an expert. Looking forward to your first Civ 6 videos! I also very much enjoyed chuckling at your pronunciation of Notre Dame (This one was hilarious), Hagia Sophia, and Neuschwanstein.

[@RobotWillie]

I know this comment is 5 years old but in America that is the way we say Notre Dame most people, unless they learn French and learn the proper way I guess, but it is how I have heard most people pronounce the name of the famous university in Indiana and its how I have always said it, and I am a sports fan so I have heard many announcers say that when talking about the American Football and basketball teams for example. So maybe its funny since you are European probably but that is how we say it here mostly, even the school. And I know Filthy isn't too far from where the school is, like the neighboring state, so he probably is saying it like the locals around him too.

[@elis6299]

I've recenty gotten into civ 5 and I always put up watching civ vids 'cause they're all so god damn long. This time I powered through though, good video :)

[@shawncollins7130]

It's a game that takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to dissect and git gewd at as well. I'd rather take an hour to watch a video with some great info than waste 50 hours building things that aren't beneficial.

[@snipergng4751]

Insanely in depth. Great work filthy!!!

[@TrademarkBoys]

Filthy, you need to make a unit tier list. Please I rely on you when it comes to civ

[@nothingoutofnothing5955]

+That one guy Well in his civ tier list 2.0 he talks briefly about which units are the premiere units of all eras. Ancient/Classical - Chariot archer Medieval - Knight,Crossbowman Renaissance - Frigate Industrial - Artillery Modern - Infantry Atomic - bomber (IMO paratroopers as well) Informational - Stealth bomber,Nukes It really depends on the situation but in my experience you need to build most of these in order to have a stong,all around and not expensive units.

[@rippydoggy]

+NothingOut OfNothing for informational era I'd say the giant death robot is the best

[@nothingoutofnothing5955]

ripped dog that comes way too late for it to be relevant actually and also the stealh bomber can attack from anywhere you want and can heal from safe distance.SB and bombers decimate armiesBut it usually does not even come to them in multiplayer since most wars are over by then.

[@emiljorgensen5340]

+ripped dog Giant Death Robots are useless. The only reason to build them is to troll.

[@MushyTales]

It would be annoying as hell for you to do, but in your civ video, you had links to each civ in the video by time - would be handy again here - if you ever have the time! Thanks for all your work man. You're making me better at an awesome game that I've sunk hundreds of hours into..!

[@FilthyRobot]

Done!

[@MushyTales]

FilthyRobot You fucking legend Filthy, thanks again man!

[@whatever8962]

I remember this one time on Deity invading the Shoshone with Himeji+Order+Defender of the Faith+Forest covered capital. His promoted riflemen's defense went up to >90, jesus o_o. Good thing he was fighting all game long (his army dwindled to a few units) and he was my last opponent. By that time I already had a bunch of artillery + a heavily promoted army of gatling guns, so it ended up not being that hard, but the combat strength stacks were insane nevertheless.

[@DrLinvoyPrimus]

A handsome, ginger, nerd. You, my friend, are a tier one wonder.

[@Ravenphan20]

I'm with you on the +1 range battleships, and if you are England and can have +1 ship of the lines, you can really make life tough on people. I always go for the range promotion on frigates/battleships.

[@monkeyfighter92]

These tier list videos are really great! Are you planning on doing any more of them (Natural wonders etc)?

[@FilthyRobot]

Viewers seem to like them, so I expect I'll do more at some point.

[@alex466_]

For Great Lighthouse you were talking about how the +1 movement & +1 sight will stack with just opening Exploration which also grants +1 movement & +1 sight. Another thing you should've mentioned is that if you're England that adds +2 movement for total of +4 movement (& still +2 sight) which is absolutely insane. It's kinda situational (although not extremely difficult to achieve if you get England) and could happen in as early as Medieval Era which would more than double that era's ship's movement, Galleass from 3 to 7.

[@UberCharger56]

I've found Himeji Castle stacks well with Polynesia's maoi defense bonus, plus if you have a bunch of units upgraded from Maoi Warriors the lowered enemy attack power makes them exceptionally difficult to assault.

[@CarlosValenzuela-sx9xb]

do you play online?

[@DeityBladeGaming]

Not sure he does. Maoi are quite good, but you don't really build more than 2, and Himeji dosen't come till Reniassance

[@Octodad1]

"never going to have a culture victory" That seems to have changed

[@dashua1735]

NQMod?

[@misterstaple]

Crazy that running on quick vs standard completely changes all this

[@employee4275]

what would it change for you?

[@donanderson3653]

​@@employee4275 Very little, the only relevant changes are wonders that give fixed rewards (like the mausoleum of halicarnassus) is better on quick mode.

[@JayW35]

An amazing game for War Mongering Shaka would be having Alhambra and Brandenburg Gate with his unique building replacement and the Armory and Military Academy. The amount of deadliness that would be is off the charts.

[@Vinyl_DjPon3]

Do you think you'll ever do natural wonders? There aren't very many so it'd be a fairly short video, and would help players (like me) know what Wonders are worth making settles for, and which to ignore..and I'm more just curious on which Natural Wonders you consider the Best/Worst

[@DanBeddow]

Eric VinylScratch FilthyRobot

[@amarminhas202]

T1 Kilimanjaro great barrier reef fountain of youth T2 Solomon Victoria uluru kailash T3 everything else

[@Badbentham]

A very nice summary! It of course depends on the game you play;- the common 6max speed MP is certainly different than a Deity Marathon run with culture spammers (say, Morocco, or Brazil) . Lowest priority wonders (the whole tourism load) in your games ( you forgot about the Hermitage, I believe...) become far more interesting there (and NewSwanStein quite good) , than in these ultra-aggressive PvP games on small maps. Still, Cristo, Pentagon, or Firewall remain crap, apart of course from the victory points you get. ;)

[@alanascialo1556]

you are fantastic at what you do. thank you !

[@RadicOmega]

you are hardcore sleeping on the pyramids. It becomes one of the strongest military wonders when your workers can repair improvements in a single turn, allowing your troops to pillage and heal twice

[@supersonicmanoutofyou1705]

That's banned in multiplayer

[@RadicOmega]

@@supersonicmanoutofyou1705 i honestly thought i discovered that myself…

[@Smashingpain]

noosh-wan-steen. It's German my friend, pronounced Noish-van-shtein. Now you'll never have to worry about mispronouncing it! Great guide too, very nice for helping me out on my way to being a good multiplayer player.

[@kasimirkleinhuckelkoten795]

Smashingpain no it's Bavarian.

[@ParadigmZwei]

I've only watched two FilthyRobot videos thus far. It has taken 5 and a half hours. And I don't regret any of it,

[@TrademarkBoys]

You forgot globe theatre but I assume it would be at T5. Also for comments saying he forgot Grand Temple, Ironworks, National College, Oxford etc. those are national wonders meaning EVERY civ can build it

[@jimmiejam7190]

Oxford is a national wonder, I don't know what you are on

[@equilintogo5378]

I think T4 actually, a writer is more valuable than the other two, and GT comes earlier = a bit cheaper than all those other GWAM wonders.

[@migitinabakini]

1:24:31 I've had some games where the 5 prophet charge thing happens and others where it doesn't so maybe it's just a bug?

[@FilthyRobot]

migitinabakini I think a fan told me that it only happens if you purchase a prophet post-industrial.

[@RuiGomes43]

I usually rush Great Engineers everywhere so I can rush all the wonders in 1 turn, even Angkor wat and sh*t Or I play Babylon and rush Great Library if I feel like it. I'm new to the game.

[@plrrentteam6924]

Another great civ vid from filthy. Keep in mind, no wonder is really game breaking by itself (they are all situational as he said). They can be great, but games can be won with 0 wonders, if you focus on sim-citying, or if you want to go early military push. -kdjd

[@CalgaryCalamari]

Awesome tutorial Robot! One problem, when I click the link to your spreadsheet my system just opens MY Google drive and nothing seems to DL... Don't use Google drive much so maybe I'm doing something wrong? Again thanks for the awesome tutorials, sure making a big difference in my games, even though I only play against the AI right now... :D

[@nio1763]

i'm having the same issue !!

[@Icagel0]

Same here :o

[@freddiet.rowlet525]

This is more for a singleplayer game as cultural victory is unviable in multiplayer, but I enjoy using Alhambra, Himeji Castle, Red Fort and Neuschwanstein in tandem with India. Alhambra and Himeji give free Mughal Forts, which give free tourism, as well as combat bonuses in case you're invaded or wish to take out a nearby enemy city to decrease their culture output. This, combined with Red Fort, which improves defence, and Neuschwanstein, which gives extra culture and gold for each of your Mughal Forts, gives you a great increase to tourism once combined with hotels and Alhambra's culture modifier.

[@UdyKumra]

I mostly play singleplayer, in which I find that Cristo Redentor and Great Firewall are incredibly strong, especially since I hate domination victories and go for one of the others usually.

[@Vladi_AK47]

Awesome guide, thanks Filthy! ❤️ could you make one about hidden game mechanics, such as worker routines, tile improvements, great people buildings and their placement, 3 tile city radius production, luxuries, resources, placing cities on hills or rivers or coastal, all the pros and cons. Like i said, hidden mechanics. A lot of ppl didn’t like civ 6, me and my friends are still playing civ 5 bnw. Your guides are awesome, would love one about the things I mentioned above. Thanks dude 👍

[@KaiWolf18]

Neuschwanstein "Noy-Schvan-Stein" (stein rhymes with shine)

[@necrowizzard]

thanks, a lot better than some other civ 5 youtubers - the information about terracotta army was useful

[@MrSerkancekic]

This is absolutely great guide but the problem is; it s made for quick and small map game plays. But in the marathon and huge map games, too many rules change I guess, especially culture based wonders like pantheon, sistine chapel or castle wonder is became much more important. İt's because at this kind of games (huge, marathon) advantage coming from policies is increases because of the increase of turns. It s same for cn tower, cristo, hagia sophia, pyramids etc for the same reason. It s same for great engineer and the scientist too. In marathon, huge map game engineer relatively more effective than the scientists. Isn't civ 5 a magnificent game :D

[@s0lid_sno0ks]

For real these guides are great. Even us SPer noobs can apply a lot of the knowledge.

[@zachlyle4922]

Oh, Petra. I was playing on a small continents map once (with PerfectWorld3) and spawned on my own desert island. Not too far from my capital was King Solomon's Mines. RNG smiled brightly on me that day.

[@samtoney2904]

I for one love Red Fort when playing as Babylon, with the walls of Babylon, you will be almost indestructible

[@Jaxymann]

Also works a treat when I "Turtle Up" as Ethiopia: +20% Combat Strength against larger Civs, +25% Defensive Building strength of Red Fort and +15% Combat Strength in friendly territory with Himeji Castle makes you a tough nut to crack for even the most ardent warmongers.

[@apetreialex6236]

hey, quick note, in many cases your webcam blocks the description text of the wonder, which is unfortunate; would be awesome in future videos if you can better position the text on the screen to be readable;

[@Sharples65]

I've rushed Pentagon with an engineer in a close three way game as Venice. I had twenty bombers so upgrading them to Stealth Bombers helped significantly to kill my two opponents. Never would've been able to do this without this wonder as they were already using XCom

[@Ilovevidgames123]

I'm surprised that you think of Brandenburg as being less important if you go Autocracy. I would think that the goal of an Autocracy strategy would be to build up as highly-promoted of an army as possible. I've been trying to put together a really optimal strategy for the Zulu (they're a pet civ of mine, but I've never really been able to make them work the way I wanted them to), and I think Brandenburg is definitely part of that equation. Best I can figure, Honor (particularly for the adjacent friendly unit bonus, which synergizes nicely with the Buffalo promotion chain's improved flanking bonuses, and for the increased battle experience policy, which synergizes nicely with the Zulu's reduced promotion experience requirements), Alhambra+Brandenburg+Heroic Epic+Military Academy+Armory+Ikanda in one city, with the religion belief that allows you to purchase pre-Industrial units with faith, and then start faith-buying and building Impi as soon as you get Brandenburg and the Military Academy done, give 'em the whole Buffalo chain and whatever you want for the extra one (I favor medic because of the fact that you're supposed to be fighting in formation with them anyways), getting the Impi promoted further through war, and of course continuing to upgrade these Impi, so that by the late game, you have a hyper-promoted infantry force that moves faster than normal infantry and can't be beaten when it fights in formation.

[@FilthyRobot]

Brandenburg is 2 eras later than when Impis are available. Autocracy with +15exp tenet and military academies is 4 promotions on creation. If you add brandenburg, it's still 3 promotions on creation. Zulu is the only exception.

[@Ilovevidgames123]

Game still lets you build Impis if you don't move too far ahead in the tech tree on their unit lineage, and I only talked about getting Impis that way as a means of getting the Buffalo promotion chain. You are the (far) more experienced and skilled player, though.

[@kristensberzins3156]

Grant Larson i think you need to get lancers before brandenburg so that kinda sucks but zulus w/ academy, total war, brandenburg and alhambra can roll out units with march + blitz

[@Ilovevidgames123]

Kristens Berzins Part of the problem is that I didn't realize at first that Filthy's a PvP player, and of course, human players are going to be smart enough to prioritize finishing weakened or heavily promoted units and getting favorable situations to engage them in. I play mainly PvE.

[@kristensberzins3156]

Grant Larson i do too but i understand filthy's POV.

[@cormacsmith9367]

I noticed you said Brandenburg wasn't useful when going Autocracy, but if you are Zulu, surely you would like the extra +15xp to get to a total of 75 exp, for 4 promotions? Then with Alhambra you can have 5 x promoted infantry

[@FilthyRobot]

Zulu are, of course, are an exception. You can also go Brandenburg in one city, and Alhambra in another city and have 2 cities producing 4x promoted units (which is better than 1 city with 5x promotions imo).

[@theMOCmaster]

FilthyRobot You can also get 4x promotion units from Brandenburg/Alhambra if you're Ashurbanipal with a writing work in your Royal Library if I remember correctly.

[@mapeus]

@@theMOCmaster That only gives 10 experience, which is not enough for 4x promoted units.

[@cmanxxx2961]

Thank you very much! I would love to see the Religion Tier list as well. Perhaps you could play Byzantium and show us the situations where going religion can help for any victory.

[@FilthyRobot]

Lots of guides on the list, and the religion one keeps coming up. Perhaps I'll get to it at some point!

[@Othello484]

Great commentary. Subscribed. :)

[@Skelezig]

Regarding the Terracotta Army, considering any close opponent would be watching your capital, would building it for one turn in order to get the wonder on the map for the opponent to see be beneficial as he'd have to build up military units while you could focus on other tasks like building up your empire? In other words: fooling your opponent into believing you intend to invade him.

[@lieutenantstalin7946]

What I like to do is build as many units and stockpile gold to get terracotta and get ~10 units.

[@Skelezig]

OwnagePwnage123 Why do you need gold for terracotta army?

[@EZNOOB6969]

When the terracotta units roll out they all cost maintenance

[@tiemen596]

He's probably going to build military units and when he checks the demographic screen and sees you have no army he might consider using those units against you, especially since you annoyed him into building military.

[@AndenMCGamer]

For me the Excel sheet is broken can we please get another link

[@FilthyRobot]

The link works fine for me.

[@AvNotasian]

FilthyRobot Link doesn't work, the address it leads to is just the users google drive.

[@lKnOneQ]

NotAsian Same for me, just to the users google drive.

[@ReadMoreRothbard]

+FilthyRobot link is not specific to a file, just to the user's google drive.

[@edplat2367]

The prophets you buy in the city with great mosque have 5 charges but not the ones you generate.

[@galacticreggie]

New-shwan-styne. It's the castle that is the reference for Disney's logo. Disney has used it for a very long time, and it has become a pop-culture icon. I had no idea the Disney castle was modeled after a real German castle, until someone told me back in 2004 or so. Take a look at some google image scenic photographs. Looks straight out of a fantasy novel, which is probably why Disney appropriated it. If I can't say it in time, I just say "Disney Castle." Hey FilthyRobot, what if this wonder was available at Chivalry instead?

[@KemmHuHelu]

Hey there! Thanks for the work you invest in your videos. Very informative. Can you please fix the link for the spreadsheet as it is not working? Thanks a lot.

[@FilthyRobot]

Such a polite ask makes me happy. Link fixed!

[@KemmHuHelu]

Hi again. I am noticing the writers' guild wonder is not in the list. Where would that rank on the list, please?

[@ShadowDragon1848]

A question, what ideology is used the most in your form of multiplayer? Facism, communism or democracy? Il ike your videos so much, I have 1500+ hours on civ 5 but I play more rpg like and not for the pure effectiveness. But for MP with my friends I learn so much from you :)

[@omarabdelaty634]

you do get prophets with 5 charges starting in industrial era with mosque of Djenne. That is because in earlier eras they appear instead of being bought from that specific city

[@ChairmanMeow1]

7 years later Im still watching these videos lol

[@doubledutch3439]

On most maps I try to build privateers and inronclads before researching combustion followed by combined arms and then wait till I got the Pentagon before upgrading them at half price (with Professional Army). That way I suddenly have a huge army/navy and can surprise the enemy.

[@RotgerValdes]

Pyramids are very strong Wonder for any civs. Borobudur makes sense only if you play through Religion. Maybe it would be better to swap them between tiers.

[@Basensproductions]

Not sure if you mentioned anything about Venice in the introduction, but I find great merchant points to help me both early and late game. I also finds myself buying units through out the game which you. (As Venice) Again, sorry if you mentioned anything about that. I also have to admit, I'm pretty new to the series of games and I mostly play against bots or 2-3 friends that are also new. Maybe Venice is an unusual pick for MP or belong in that box of "extreme circumstances" picks. Found most of what you said extremely useful. It's good to know what wonders to stay away from :)

[@FilthyRobot]

Great merchant, great engineer, and great scientists points share a pool. So if you are generating merchants you are delaying or preventing generation of your scientists. Be aware!

[@littlehawk3161]

Anyone else notice him call the red fort a "tier 3 civ". When will you make a unique unit comparison?

[@andyshinnerl9151]

"Please, dear God, do not pick a merchant..." -filthy

[@MardukGKoB]

An early great merchant isn't the end of the world - it can be used to get a long-term city-state ally. Use him in the city-state and use the money he generates to influence them, and they're yours for a long time. The bonus you get from a city-state ally can be significant early on. Look for a city-state that has the luxury your capital wants, and you'll get the "We Love the King" bonus too. If any city-states have quests for you to connect a luxury, you might even be able to arrange a chain reaction of influence boosts. One of these days I'm going to actually try for an early merchant and see what I can make of it.

[@pseudoproak]

Every merchant makes scientists and engineers more expensive. That's horrible

[@levislevitas]

can you post the tier list excel somewhere

[@FilthyRobot]

soon

[@whatisthis-uw9ok]

@@FilthyRobot you lie

[@Staric354]

@@FilthyRobot Still waiting haha

[@FilthyRobot]

@@Staric354 drive.google.com/file/d/0BybM2PD7AqoKSUF2ZVVnWUFROTQ/view?usp=sharing

[@FilthyRobot]

@@Staric354 Also, why are you still waiting, it's in the description and has been for years? Are you telling me I'm still waiting for you to figure out how to read the description of a video?

[@Victus_Mortuus]

I'd be very interested in a number of things such as Unit tier lists/Natural wonder lists/National wonder lists, Luxury lists. However I doubt you'd have the time to do all that.

[@_zeppeh]

sry but as a german I laughed my ass off when you pronounced NEUSCHWANENSTEIN :D love you

[@ioanniskonstantoulas3377]

Do you allow the "Combat Workers" Trick in your multiplayer games? if not agree 100% with pyramids, if yes (personally dislike it) it need to be stated that pyramids are a bit more useful than said, just a bit, because you can stack a melee-strong defensive unit or even a ranged siege unit, with a worker, on an opponents tile, pilage it and then immidiately repair it to be pilaged again, which generated a lot of gold too This "trick-exploit" is not a nice game imo, haven't tried it recently, just need to be stated for the optimizing of this guide. Thanks for the guide, helps a lot, didn't know about temple, ranked up really high in my books!

[@ioanniskonstantoulas3377]

Ioannis Konstantoulas I also need to state for himeji, the way it works is, any unit with the promotion of himeji OR/and the shoshone pride of the ancestors, gets the bonus when the battle IS happening in your territory(meaning, the defending party of the combat is whithin your territory) so, all your units(airplanes too if they have the promo) get the bonus when hitting within your territory i.e. and airplane in your city, won't get the bonus if it hits outside your borders

[@FilthyRobot]

As I mention, we play with NQ rules, which prohibit the pillage and repair exploit.

[@nekroneko]

Could you do a video that just shows off why Petra can be so powerful? I know it is something I shoot for if I have desert, but I didn't realise it was quite that strong

[@rheiagreenland4714]

In a normal game, this seems like a good rating, but I found that if you start a game in the information era, especially aiming for a culture victory, many of the bad and awful wonders can become great wonders.

[@GatsbyCioffi]

You didn't mention the Globe Theatre. Is that lumped with the other tourism wonders?

[@naphackDT]

Andrew .Fralinger Probably so bad, he forgot, it even existed...

[@kubu9394]

Andrew .Fralinger Better than other tourism wonders, since it gives you "free" writer (same rule as Broadway, Uffizi, delayes your next writer), but it gives you some culture, good part of countering futurism, so I guess tier 4.

[@wholcikedme]

still waiting for religion guide

[@TheNeCafe]

will you do an updated wonder tier list for the current NQmod, there are quite a lot of different things

[@aaronlyttle775]

I'm still not great at this game, but your videos have made me a lot less terrible!

[@harpower4]

Hey Filthy love your videos I do have a question. In this one you talked about opportunity costs and I just wanted to ask is there another video you have where you go more into depth like saying "Now is a good time to put towards [insert wonder] most of my games I try to evaluate whens a good time to make one and I always seem to get beat by a turn or 2 so I just want to try to better myself.

[@ilyacherepanov5652]

хорош ) понятно обьяснил и его игры приятно смотреть. жду чарт о природных чудесах!

[@qwertyb18]

The Great Firewall is only useful in singleplayer if you're going for a tall, slower but more consistent culture victory strategy where you do NOT want a runaway civ to build it and also everyone is spying on you. You only grab it to secure your victory even harder, but if you're trying to turtle and not use a city spam aggro gimmick, I say why not. -EDIT It should be noted that you really should bulb into the Internet and then research into Computers. At this point, you really should've won by now but I've had games with up to 3 culture heavy civs; so ahead of time I chose to take the slower high base tourism route. It should also be noted that this DOES happen more consistently than I would've liked, so I tend to build this wonder in more games than I'd like to admit. It's obviously best to spam Great Musicians in a local city you've gifted to the runaway AIs during the International Games, but that requires you to be well prepared ahead of time to win on the spot with a CV in mind well in advance.

[@flimpeenflarmpoon1353]

Can you imagine playing as England, putting a point in exploration and building the Great Lighthouse? And if you play as England would you prioritise the Lighthouse to make you extremely powerful later on or do you have enough of an advantage as it is and it's worth researching other techs?

[@kimkatsu1453]

+Flimpeen Flarmpoon Well, England have +2 movement, so great lighthouse built by their enemies will reduce their advantage to 1 movement. It's fair to assume that england will buy exploration policy, but sometimes enemies can buy earlier (if poland, for example) or they won't buy at all (though i assume that will be rare). As England you have enough advantage to beat the guy who built this wonder, and additional +1 mov and sight can be overkill, so you probably would be better off investing in something else. Also, in a lot of games with England other people just straight give up on naval warfare and not bother building this wonder. Still, if the game is on the map like archipelagos or something similar, it's worth building this wonder to deny advantage of earlier exploration and combat bonus to other civs, but you can be sure that everyone will try to built it in this case.

[@Dennispokemon1]

+Flimpeen Flarmpoon You can combine everything together for an incredibly strong bonus. With the English UA, GLH and Exploration your SotLs/Privateers can move 9 tiles per turn, which is absolutely ridiculous. Approach straight outta nowhere and destroy their capital in 1-2 turns.

[@LupineLoonatic]

17:29 didn't realize that an American College made its way into civ 5. xD

[@spstr0238]

no, it's. not talking about Notre Dame University, it's talking about the cathedral, located in France (I think)

[@LupineLoonatic]

+Holden Kempenaar lol you actually thought I was being serious? I know what he actually means. I'm just making fun of how he pronounced it wrong.

[@spstr0238]

Oh. I'm sorry XD. It is hard to see sarcasm in text form.

[@teun911]

*Impossible. Also this man is a savage. Bring him to me and I will give him my... CIVILIZATION!

[@rogerwilco2]

It's Notre Dame, not Noder Deam.

[@NikolajNickelsen]

Play with the Zulus and get Brandenburger Gate, your units will get 4 promotions aswell :)

[@taxevasion4736]

Prora is tier 2 because it's situational as you need autocracy and you are usually going to go order

[@VeteranVandal]

Hey, you haven't mentioned the 2 scientist points in Brandenburg Gate. If coupled with Porcelain Tower, you get a pretty great scientist generation. Of course it appears to be a good wonder for that, but the only problem is that it is not in the tech path of research labs and it comes a little bit late in the game... I mean, no wonder gives more scientist points. But can you milk even one before the game ends? After thinking for some five minutes... I think it is really not that important and it might be tricky to use even still... It might give you a little boost if coupled to other stuff, but that would be so many wasted hammers... Probably that is why you haven't mentioned.

[@FatheredPuma81]

When playing some casual games with random friends who aren't amazing at the game Big Ben as Venice it makes Venice quite nice because if you have for say to build a Public School in your capital and have terrible production secondary cities or they just won't prioritize it then it helps keep you up in techs. It also combined with Autocracy (I usually Venice Autocracy) makes having Public Schools and doing a Frigate rush quite easy and nice as you don't get set back and get a free capital. Now the people I play with usually enjoy my GPT I send them since they get about 30-50 from my trade routes (They usually build that one wonder ish type thing that increases gold coming to you and I usually only send to capitals from all my cities so they get about 15 per trade route) and don't just war me to stop me. Also in my games even with 1 trade route after declaring war on someone I go from 500 GPT to 200 so it doesn't hurt me a lot. I do see Big Ben even in NQ (I don't play NQ only watch) as a nice wonder later in the game. It usually helps when you either can buy 2 Atomic Bombs it changes it to 3-4 which thats a lot of nuking. I obviously wouldn't put it on some super high priority but even Big Ben by it's self can change from 2 Atomic bombs and almost a 3rd to easily 3 atomic bombs. It's obviously nice if you took over a capital that has Petra and really need to get some buildings up without building them like Public Schools. I ramble a lot but I would have put Big Ben at 3 because it's sometimes strong when combined with other things.

[@FilthyRobot]

Atomic Bombs with Autocracy and Mercantilism are 570 each. Atomic Bombs with Autocracy, Mercantilism, and Big Ben are 460 each.

[@FatheredPuma81]

FilthyRobot If you buy 4 Atomic bombs it gives you a 5th free with Big Ben. I'd say it's worth it if you have the time. I'd say any wonder is worth it if you have the time but to bad many wonders come at a terrible time so yea I wouldn't really put Big Ben on a high priority list of wonders but it certainly is nice.