Fincasters Episode 50: Setting up an African Cichlid Aquarium

[@Turnbull_AC]

Hi Fincasters, I recently set up a 200 litre (I'm in the UK) cichlid tank (I think that's around 50 US gallons) & after watching this video I purchased two 9kg (20lbs) bags of the very same eco-complete cichlid sand and found that 18kg was nowhere near enough. I had to mix in another 10kg of silica sand to get that nice, deep bed look. So that's roughly 28kg/60lbs of sand in a 92cm/3ft tank. I took 3 days for the water to clear but it was well worth it in the end. Great video btw!

[@dmaz8317]

FYI, a large syphon hose and a five gallon bucket work perfectly for removing substrate while tank still has water in it, its fast, its clean, & it gets every bit of sand or gravel, great videos, thanks

[@jan-louisjordaan8071]

I have a 2 meter, 1000 litre Tanganyikan tank. At first I had cichlids from lakes Malawi and Victoria as well, but my experience is that the Tanganyikans are docile and super relaxing to watch.

[@kingofrannoch]

First rock aquarium I've seen. The fish are nice decor.

[@ManxDaddy839]

I'm getting ready to start my first African tank, a 75g Tanganikian. To be stocked with White Calvas and Frontosas. You just answered my substrate question. Thanks and great looking tank.

[@fincasters]

Enjoy!

[@3drhodes]

I'm hooked on the lake Malawi mbuna with a few peacocks. Your setup is amazing. I could watch your tank all day.

[@ibex33]

Do you think there are enough rocks in there?😂

[@PULAG]

Always go for a 50 rock minimum in 10gal, 100 in 20gal, and so forth.

[@farhaanm5225]

@@PULAG did u really reply back to a 4 year old comment? 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

[@PULAG]

@@farhaanm5225 did you? :)

[@hooftrim4589]

wow looks great and a very uncluttered video ...not that easy is it .. after 50 years of fish keeping i have settled on a 190 gal lake Tanganyika biotope. at the foot of our bed.. they are an extremely diverse group of fish complete with sun rise mid day and sun set . 1 small java fern not even sure where it came from . its about 1 cubic foot now. thanks for sharing i have subscribed today and look forward to watching more of your work ....stay safe.. be kind

[@nerozero738]

This was a great help for when I get my larger set up for a show tank once I move. Sadly where I'm at now the floor stress level can't handle anything bigger than a 55 gallon. In my tank I have a mix of Africans and South Americans and there is no chasing, besides when the males are getting frisky with the ladies. I do plan to divide them in the future as my goal is to breed electric blue jack Dempsey's. I have 2 with the blue gene and 4 without it planning to put them in a 200-gallon tank once I move.

[@sbenson-miles762]

I learn so much when I watch videos like this . Thank you 😁

[@danielbarbee7712]

I used the ceiling light grid in my new tank. Worked well and I just like the idea that it spreads out the load.

[@melilu2845]

Mbunas are my first love. But I have plans for a future Tanganyikan tank. Always really liked the Calvus and brichardi.

[@Darrell-cm3iz]

I love that .can you use driftwood with imbuna

[@intheshadowofgod9658]

Central American Cichlids seem to have more interesting behaviors and personalities but tend to be more aggressive so definitely not for beginners. They usually require extra large tanks but can withstand a wide range of water parameters.

[@ffownage]

You have a nice tank set up sir. I think with the rock less is more. With that being said though it's your tank so you have it set up the way you like it. Just my opinion though

[@yeohmodels]

Who else had a mini heart attack when he started stacking?

[@hondagoal]

I Had a Major Heart-attack when he was loading them up.

[@jagjag1277]

I was having a mild stroke when he was stacking while making caves below. I can almost hear the thud.

[@BushWackingHomestead]

I was having a seizure and mini strokes while he was stacking them.

[@formercityboy9772]

I was so nervous that I skipped that part

[@kkdeveauxgue2784]

Omg😭😭😭😲😲

[@Sandman3136]

Beautiful Tank. Love those Tanganyikan Cichlids. 👍

[@bpm1289]

Excellent video and a great selection of fish for your community. I'm keeping Malawis myself and plan on converting one of my tanks to Tangans soon.

[@fincasters]

+Brian Meehan thanks. I like Malawis as well. So much color.

[@kumarisfree]

Amazing one. Really inspired by the scaping of rocks..good work..handpicked cichlids.nice.

[@stephboone5281]

What type of rocks did you use

[@johncarlinfincasters4374]

Good point about the light. It's left over from my planted set up. I've reduced the photo period to only 3 hours per day -- or I turn it on only when viewing. Also I only run 2 of the 4 bulbs.

[@sarahfin3810]

What a fantastic video. I thoroughly enjoyed it! Stunning rock work.

[@johncarlinfincasters4374]

Thanks. This aquarium has been so much fun.

[@VarietyErrors]

Excellent video! I greatly enjoyed watching the whole thing. I have been an aquarium enthusiast for about 8 years now and love cichlids! I am working on a 55 gallon setup now!

[@eldonengbino1064]

Very informative - first time viewing your videos - very impressive - awesome job!

[@fincasters]

Thanks!

[@Wasntalot]

leleupi is gorgeous, always been wanted one or two or five in my tank

[@ivanma4647]

You need a blue Zaire frontosa, or the black widow frontosa. They are such a must for your tank, most of them are gentle giants!

[@fincasters]

I like Fronts! They are among my favorite fish. This tank is only a 55 and I think they would outgrow it pretty quickly. Now when I set up my 180... :)

[@jagjag1277]

I feel like buying an "incase somthing happens" tank while watching this video.

[@tmartin2347]

Where did you get rocks like these ? Landscaping store? I’m debating using dry reef rock, but these are nice too

[@fincasters]

I literally found them in the woods by my house!

[@nagendramurthy7054]

Great video. What would be the total weight of the rocks set up in the aquarium ?

[@vinny442]

What a showbiz Voice. Love it

[@fincasters]

Thanks!

[@mattadrev471]

Great vid! I will def use that trick for large rocks in cichlid tanks!

[@fincasters]

Thanks Matt -- Happy aquascaping.

[@dennisfrankland4296]

Hi dude, thanks so much for replying. I thought you would have used mature media etc. Hope you didn't mind me asking. I can remember years ago when I first step my IRS fish tank, didn't know back then what I know now about cycling a tank, you know the drill dude. Where did your flat rocks ? I want to make caves in my African tank. I have a lot of large shadow rock, but they are way too big for my four foot tank. There are lots of flat rock on the local beach but it's illegal to get them so trying to find somewhere where I can buy them. I live in the U.K. Wish u knew how to do videos of my fish tank ? I have a breeding tank with approximately 100 jack Dempsey fry that are two months old. I really like Dempsey 's. also breed African blue dolphins, but only got about 30-40 five month old fry, loads of water changes or me to do, which is difficult as I'm disabled veteran but some times get help from nephew. I will check out more of your videos, many thanks

[@tmuck44]

One thing I'm worried about is possible algae outbreaks. That light I'm guessing is a dual or quad t5ho which is a lot of light for a cichlid tank with no means of nutrient outtake other than water changes.

[@deadsheep1559]

nice...i just got two jack dempsey and put them with my juvi red belly...should be interesting.

[@fincasters]

Yes. A few plastic plants are a nice touch. Tall in the back, low in the front. Medium in the middle.

[@fincasters]

+Sarpa Salpa Touche!

[@saabsaab892]

باعو العراق صار بي العالم كله ماتت حلو جيدن

[@Scry999]

Lmao.

[@ral8650]

RrrsbzlZfh,&&( ,

[@hoannguyen-ho2qb]

great looking tank john. where do you buy the rocks beside the fish store. just trying to save some money. :)

[@daviddiehl197]

Something I'm trying is using limestone rocks, there is a lot of nice pieces where I live. For safety you can put a piece of Plexiglas or acrylic under the rock.

[@fincasters]

Yes. That’s actually a good idea. And the African cichlids will love that lime stone!

[@Prat_Saw]

i always wanted to create a simple yet elegant tank setup and this has solved my problem.Amazing stuff and I am in process of creating this same setup,though I have a question. Can I add a few artificial plants??

[@Jaredtcurtis]

How do you properly clean rocks that you just find outside, to make them safe for aquarium use? And can you use big chunks of cement if you clean them very well too?

[@fincasters]

I t depends upon how dirty they are. Typically I just rinse them with a garden hose and scrub with a brush. I also try to leave them in the hot sun to make it inhospitable for bacteria -- especially if you have pulled the rocks out of the dirt. I have gone so far as to bake the rocks in the oven -- or boil them -- but lately that feels like over-kill. Good luck Jared and enjoy!

[@angiezguy]

Where did you find the rocks? Setting up my own 55 gallon cichlid tank and those rocks are so nice and flat surfaced. If you got them near Roanoke I would love to know where!

[@clausk2901]

What a great narrative Voice

[@gazyg1973]

Excellent video 👍👍👍

[@spotemshotemboys8163]

Great video man. I got a tank to start avocado seeds, ended up with a pregnant black convict and her mate. And the seeds actually sprout in there. Thinking they get extra nutes from the fish water

[@robbymann5839]

Tank set-up is amazing.

[@Galloyien]

I love the Tanganyika fish. I think the tank looks a lot better with them.

[@fincasters]

+Tim Smith Totally agree!

[@syedasif7965]

Nice setup sir, how many pounds of rocks can be use per gallon. Is there any calculation for rock setup.

[@isaiahalejo6788]

Wow nice video! Wondering on where could i get some rocks like that

[@michaelmarquez6133]

This is a great video, thank you i am interested in making a cichlid tank but I might wait still a year ? I have a 65 gallon tank that u am learning to manage now

[@darjohnsom9368]

nice tank, thats what im looking to do my tank right now is getting way to agressive, even the peacocks

[@Free_Free_Palestine0]

Awesome setup...subbed! How many millimeter glass do you have? I'm thinking of using egg crate under my rocks but I'm worried about how much weight could my tank handle with egg crate below.

[@fincasters]

Sorry.☹️ I don’t have that info. But egg crate would be a good plan!

[@madeinthe562]

Quick question. Where do you get the rocks you used to stack and how much are they? I want to tear down my 40 GL South American cichlid tank and do this!

[@fincasters]

Alex Cervantes These rocks came from the woods near my house. No issues with them!

[@joshgreaves9934]

Stunning tank!! Great video dude 👍🏿👍🏿

[@7gshark]

Great Video, reminds me of my fish videos, love it!

[@7gshark]

I have always love Africans so this is a cool video... keeping it real with the substrate

[@DaveAMcLean]

Great advice. I've recently set up an Mbuna aquarium and I'm posting videos of my progress let me know what you think if you get a chance to look. May I ask for some advice, please? I have predominantly peacocks, a few yellow labs and just introduced some pseudochromis, acei and maylandia. How quickly should I add more fish to get it fully stocked? The water is testing fine so can I just go ahead in one swoop and stock up? I also fancy some demasoni - any tips on them. I hope you don't mind me asking but you seem to know your stuff. I have kept community fish for many years - just getting into the mbuna.

[@jacobbieniek8226]

its best to add all the fish at once if you can afford to do this. Once the fish establish territory and a pecking order its much harder to introduce fish. Not saying it cant be done but its much harder.

[@johnmagee3292]

What do you use to clean the tank or gravel/sand? I have a python and have a crushed coral substrate with base rock as my "rock" of choice. I haven't setup the tank yet but it's a 65 gallon African tank. Do you clean the poop off the bottom or just do water changes and whatever it gets, it gets? Thanks!

[@fincasters]

Hi John. The python is exactly the thing to use. If you have the chance one setting up leave yourself some spaces between your rocks where the python will work. That's the perfect solution.

[@anthonysanchez3741]

Nice setup I love it

[@jamesc.7988]

Hello John. I am wanting to setup my first African Cichlid tank and this is what I am working with... A 44 gallon corner tank (pentagon shaped), a Penn Plax 1000 cannister filter (265 GPH) filled with Bio-Home Ultimate and Purigen with a 2-piece fine/course sponge in the bottom. The decor consists of 10 hollow Cichlid stones with a few plastic plants and crushed coral for the substrate. Now I have a few questions after watching a ton of videos here on KZbin. I am torn between buying Mbuna or Peacocks. I wanted Mbuna originally but after discovering that they are typically the most aggressive, I am leaning more towards the Peacocks. The problem with that idea is tank size. I know that Peacocks can get quite a bit larger than Mbuna and I am already working with a smaller sized tank. I want to get a 125 gallon at some point but funds are tight and I haven't found one at a good price yet. After I decide between Mbuna or Peacocks, I need to determine how many I should put in the tank. John over at KG Tropicals recommends 1 Cichlid per 2 gallons of water, assuming that we aren't talking about Frontosas. Using that formula, I should be able to add around 20 fish (minus the space taken up by the substrate and decor) but I am thinking about adding ~10 fish and wondering if that would be enough to curb aggression. And on the topic of agression, I have watched/heard/read that aggression can be tempered by lowering the water temperature. I've also heard that lower temperatures can be a breeding ground for parasites & disease. This has created a kind of balanciing act and I'm not sure where to set my heater for ideal conditions. As of right now, it is set to 28 Celsius or 82 Farenheit. So what do you think? What do you recommend? Is there anything I should consider changing before buying my 10 fish?

[@fincasters]

I think you have thought this through very well. A couple of thoughts: I would go with 10 Peacocks for sure. Mbuna are very interesting and you may enjoy them for awhile -- but they are quarrelsome to say the least. I would suggest you might add a couple of Tanganyikan cichlids from the smaller range -- maybe julies or leulupi -- as they will engage with your holy rock more than the peacocks which tend to be more open water swimmers. As to temp -- I don't have much experience with that -- but if you add a UV light to your filtration system it will take care of most parasites. As you go forward with your tank, you'll get a feel for your fish and I'm sure you'll discover some fish that you "just have to have" Don't worry about "failing" just enjoy!

[@jamesc.7988]

Thank you for the fast reply. I will take your advice and go for the Peacocks as I am really hoping to keep the agrression to a minimum. I will also look at some of the small Tanganyikan Cichlids to add in with them. All of the fish will be going in together so hopefully they will grow and play well with each other. I already have an in-tank 18w UV light with a powehead attached. I bought it to help control algae as the tank is very close to my living room window (the only 90 degree corner in my living room) and use an automatic timer for it and the LED lights I put on the tank, running them from 4 - 10pm each night.

[@ztaquatics]

the guys voice reminds me of 60 minutes XD

[@adamdalglish8545]

Haha just seeing this video 7 yrs later and omg stressed out when it's on the glass I'm just trying to figure out ideas for my two tanks that I never have like this .

[@haeleypapa]

What is a safe weight limit for the rocks placed in the tank..do you have some ratio worked out with the thickness of the glass?

[@fincasters]

No safe weight ratio. But if this tank holds -- you should be good with just about anything for a planted tank!

[@2DebbieDoo]

The tank came out beautifully! I am wondering about the weight of the rocks? Would a 35 pound piece of Jasper (approx. 12"x10"x6") be too heavy in my 125 gal? I would appreciate any insight, thank you! Take good care of you and yours.

[@fincasters]

I would think you are safe with that rock. As I said in the video, just be gentle!

[@2DebbieDoo]

Thank you for your reply. I have put it in and it looks gorgeous! It's kind of a funny rock as it actually looks like a fish (as a child might draw) at one end, lol. Take good care of you and yours.

[@MrFlipSkater]

What's the tank running with? Two hang on the back filters? Or one and a canister?

[@fincasters]

This one had a canister filter and a medium sized hang on back filter and I did regular weekly water changes.

[@MrFlipSkater]

I have a 55 gallon with two hang on the back filters and I was wondering if these would be able to clean up the tank well enough because it's gonna be difficult to clean my tank with the syphon after I put those big rocks in my tanks

[@fincasters]

+DAniel Puirse It depends on the size and the gallons per hour. But they will prolly be fine along with regular water changes. Crüe more flow you can get in the tank the better. If you can churn up the bottom with a power head or some thing to get the detritus up, then the siphon will still help!

[@nemo212100]

Nice tank did you get your rock at a home depot ?

[@Bembeleke]

When i had my cichlid tank it was loaded top to bottom with lace rock and white coral the fish loved it and it kept the ph the way they like it so i disagree with comments about too much rock.

[@danseabreeze1404]

I'm sure the cichlids love it but the glass underneath hates it and natural rock is much heavier than water stressing the glass underneath LIKE CRAZY and heavily risking cracking the tank. Then you have Niagara Falls... : l

[@stateniland]

I have a 75g glass tank Freshwater.. I was wondering..Does the bottom of the tank need 100% support under the glass or is support only around the edges OK? I don't have 100% support.. Was hoping it's OK Thank you Joe

[@fincasters]

Mine is only supported along the edges.

[@stateniland]

Thanks for your reply :)

[@ffownage]

stateniland I would use plastic egg crate if you have any worries about rock. It distributes the weight evenly and keeps the points of the rock from cracking the glass

[@stateniland]

TY but I'm using man made rocks (very light).. the only weight I was concerned about was the water.

[@kathyhism]

How do you know how much weight your tanks bottom can take? Thats an insane amount of weight with the rock, sand, water and plants. Im going to start over and redu my tank and i want to use large lava rock but im unsure how to do it so i dont break my tank

[@fincasters]

I don’t have a specific answer. I just know that in marine tanks we use similar amounts of live rock all the time, and it’s never been a problem! In marine tanks we use about a pound of rock per gallon.

[@eipi5173]

How would you do a good job cleaning the gravel with all those rocks in the way?

[@fincasters]

It's a bit of an issue -- but the extra flow in the tank helps.... I just did what I could and over filtered.

[@Venomthegr8]

I'm currently looking for some boulders to blend with my African cichlid (2ea) , Oscars (2ea as well) and black ghost knifefish....any suggestions...

[@operationhotshotinc.6887]

Pretty cool

[@WingoTribe704]

What type of light is that and how many lumens....I have a 55 tall and wanna convert to sand and rocks. Right now I have black gravel and manzanita with a marineland LED hood light....not much light except for a night which is when I'm asleep

[@dennisfrankland4296]

Hi there, nice job dude. I was surprised you added fish so quickly after setting up the tank? Did u used mature Water from another cichlid tank? Rocks look great, I'm always worried of a rock slide !! You have great looking cichlids. I have 5 tanks. One 400 litre American tank and two 260 litre African cichlid tank, plus 200 litre breeding tank and a 90 litre hospital tank. Lots of work but enjoyable.

[@fincasters]

+dennis frankland Hi Dennis. I used mature filter media and Seed from Seachem. Never had an ammonia spike.

[@britishvaluesforever]

Hi I have a Juwel rio 400ltr stacked with heavy grey rock. How much weight can the glass base take. I'd say i have over 60kg. The rock has been in the tank for about 10 months.

[@fincasters]

If it’s been there 10 mos. and the tank is well supported, you’ll probably be ok. Beyond that, I’m not qualified to say.

[@mysteriousgemini8135]

If I were to collect rocks from a local landscaping for my aquarium is it safe for the fish to put it directly into my tank?

[@atabish3031]

I wouldn't stack rocks of that size on the glass bottom I prefer Egg Crate I sleep better at night having that support..but that's me I know many people don't I really like the rock formation you did look's very natural

[@fincasters]

+A Tabish Thanks for the feedback. I always appreciate input. The egg crate is a good idea, no doubt.

[@blackcoalboy]

Where did you get those rocks and what are they called?

[@ronaldmcclain5064]

I was just giving three African cichlid in a bucket how would I get them room temperature do they need to be room temperature before I put them in the tank

[@stan5202]

what is the Tank size and how many pounds of rock did you use? thanks

[@markjohnson8715]

Fincaster, You have information and inspired me with this tank setup. I'm in the process of re-homing my mix African cichlid tank. What are the names of the fish you stocked this tank with?

[@ArtificialSmile]

I'd be worried about those heavy rocks on the glass bottom.. Is that safe?? (Genuinely wondering, i'd love to do something like this.)

[@fincasters]

+Sammie May Hi Sammy. A lot of people have expressed that concern. In marine aquariums it is not unusual to have a pound of rock for every gallon of water. sometimes up to two lbs. Saltwater critters really like to dig and move gravel, so the fear is that the rocks will tumble -- and that would break the glass for sure. After learning to stack the marine rock directly on the glass, I began doing it in my cichlid tanks for similar reasons, and I've never had an incident with breakage. Hope that helps -- jc

[@ArtificialSmile]

Thanks so much :)

[@ashwinmistry9464]

Hi If I use as per your way eco complit cichlids sand then I should not use any other nitrifying bacteria ( dr. Tim's ) I mean sand is enough to cycle the brand new tank ?

[@romcapprotti7477]

Like your tank a lot I know this is a five-year-old video aggression and a couple other major disasters have discourage me at times but I haven’t given up. Right now the aggression is the biggest problem I have two that are bullies do you suggest moving them to another tank. If I could send you a picture of a new fish I put in my main tank after you had been in quarantine and you were to see them two days later you would be absolutely shocked at how bad he was beat up and they were doing the same thing to my Sulfur head so should I move the troublemakers to another tank thanks

[@anthonyruiz4254]

Where did you get that clamp? And what do you call it? Thanks

[@fincasters]

+Anthony Ruiz I bought it at Lowes. It was in the tool section. Not sure what kind of clamp it is -- but they have a big selection and various sizes.

[@anthonyruiz4254]

+fincasters thank you

[@Audobell]

Any advice on where to get the rocks? Thank you

[@fincasters]

Actually, I found them in the woods near my house. There was a rock ledge and these had fallen from the side.

[@mysteriousgemini8135]

How many bags of 20lb substrate would u recommend for a 55gal tank?

[@gerardoquintana8340]

Hi, great video and speech, could you tell the measure of the glass? i mean 8mm, 10mm?

[@fincasters]

Hi Gerado. Thanks. Sorry I don't know the thickness of the glass. This is a standard 55 gallon aquarium. Nothing extra to hold the rock load or anything.

[@gerardoquintana8340]

I appreciate your answer, thank you.

[@heromagno3878]

What kind of rocks you put in the aquarium?

[@fincasters]

Actually just rocks from my local woods.

[@philippeguillien5980]

Hellow, wonderfull, how many liters please ?

[@Grannyhauenstein]

Is there a limit or guideline as to how much rock weight that you can add to an aquarium?

[@MikeyBizzle4Shizzle]

You let the water sit for 24 hours prior to turning on the Filtration ? Or immediately after adding rocks, cichlid sand, and water?

[@fincasters]

Turned it on after adding rocks etc. enjoy!

[@MikeyBizzle4Shizzle]

fincasters thank you for the response; living in AustinTexas I’m afforded tons of Likestone HoleyRock given you know where to look. I’m looking forward to setting up my tank

[@bryanbaker3217]

Where did you get the rocks for your tank?

[@bass-man5401]

Loach is looking at you like: what have you done? you bastard! Yea im still alive! I was just hiding from you! I did something like that when cleaning my tank I found one single guppy fry at the bottom.. I had dragged him through the gravel before I noticed him at the bottom. I scooped him up thinking he would die because I found him outta water in a pile of gravel. I quickly put him in the temporary storage tank with the other fish and he lived. Today its thriving and very strong. Its now my favorite fish because hes a survivor.

[@baronryder1]

How did you clean the tank? Did you take out all the rocks for each cleaning?

[@fincasters]

No. Just swished the water and vacuumed substrate

[@robmagz]

Greatt video!.Where did you purchase those rocks?

[@fincasters]

They actually came from the nearby woods!

[@pettergriff7778]

We’re can I get the salt and pepper combo I don’t see it anywhere and I’ve check I think everywhere possible

[@boomerwillis3846]

cool tank bro

[@robbenvanpersie1562]

Is 55 g enough once they grow to their full size?

[@marvinwilliams8971]

hey I love the tank and rocks I just started my own African Cichlid tank and wanted to know what kind of rocks are you using

[@fincasters]

+Marvin Williams Hi Marvin -- I used rocks from a local rock pile. I've also pulled some from the river occasionally, in order to find smoother ones. You always run a bit of risk not buying from the fish store -- but I have never had any issues. Just be sure to clean them real well. I will occasionally bake them or leave them just to be sure everything is dead.

[@maiojim195]

hello..great..i have a tank kind of the same size and i am afraid of setting big rocks un there,,,is the 10ml glass holding that weight with no consecuences???

[@fincasters]

+Maio Jim Hi Jim. I've done this many times with marine tanks. No problems!

[@maiojim195]

Should i tide some pieces of hose under the big rocks?

[@fincasters]

+Maio Jim not a bad idea -- as long as the stack is super stable -- so if the fish dig everything stays in place. Tumbling would be the worst thing you could face. Good luck!

[@taoutdoors8110]

I feel like my lil a**hole cichlid would knock one of those huge rocks over and it'd break the front glass

[@jmgraydz]

Yeap they should be glued together. Also. I have heard 6 different red flags here. I am out.