Finding a Flat Spot on a Freight Car Wheel plus the Rails are Singing

Watch an EB loaded coal train thru curve 15 and listen to what a flat spot sounds
like at track speed (25 MPH). Listen to the rails singing thru this 8 degree curve. Then we show you how to find the flat spot on the car truck set and what it looks like on the car wheel.
Some folks call truck sets simply trucks and our across the ocean friends call them
bogies.
According to Code Federal Regulations Title 49, 215.103, a defective wheel concerning
flat spots is one that has a slid flat or shelled spot that is more than 2 1/2 inches in
length: or two or more adjoining flat or shelled spots each of which is more than
2 inches in length. There are many other specs for defective wheels, but the above
is what it says only about flat spots.
Operator is on the other side of the cars and moving the train via remote in the second
part of this video.
#FlatSpotFreightCarWheel#EBTrain#RailsSinging#HowFindFlatSpot
Made September 2021 Cumberland Mine Railroad

[@albertbatfinder5240]

The opening shot made me reflect on what is so appealing about watching a train rumble past: It’s the contrast between the serenity before (and especially after) the event. You just don’t get that with highway road traffic, or even busy urban commuter lines.

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed the video Albert. We do appreciate your tuning in and watching today my friend.

[@haroldishoy2113]

Thanks Dave, every time I watch a video I become a little more “train smart”. Makes my day interesting😁

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome Harold and thank you very much for taking the time to watch my friend.

[@fleotusbing]

Dave, as a rail-fan, I spend a lot of time loitering around train tracks, and thanks to your videos I find myself studying and critiquing the rails: "Uh-oh, battered head." "Ah, 'engine burn', and here's some 'flowed rail." "They'd better get this cribbed-out....getting some pumping action," lol. I love your videos, and have learned so much. Thank you for all the efforts; we enjoy 'em.

[@stretchlimo7275]

Same here, I've learned a multitude of things from Dave's videos 👍🏼😎

[@ccrx6700]

Awesome! I really appreciate your very nice comment. I am honored to be able to share these videos with you guys and really fortunate I'm able to do so, believe me it's very special to me, and when guys like you share your thoughts like you have, that makes it even more special and valuable to me. Won't be long before you'll be a qualified full fledged track inspector! ...LOL, but honestly it's really great to me that you are thinking like this, it really helps you appreciate what all goes into keeping a train on the track and running.

[@carolrobinson7779]

I can troubleshoot the issues when I'm in earshot. Even in the bow stand waiting on the next world record to stroll by! 😂

[@brookeggleston9314]

@@ccrx6700 I grew up next to the tracks, back in the 50s and 60s. Back then, the big excitement was calling the dispatcher, to report a hot box on car #xxxx! Sometimes, if flaming rags flew out as the car passed by, it was necessary to call Engine 4 to come down to the old coal yard to extinguish the relatively minor fire on the right of way. There was a fair amount of dry brush in the area just off the right of way, and a small blaze could become a big one, very easily. Of course Grandpa was a retired firefighter, and he used to drive Engine 4. To top things off, on the other side of the tracks sat ALCO. It was a sad day when they shut down. I still remember watching the heavy duty flat beds hauling tanks out to the testing grounds, before they were sent to Korea. They also made tanks and other armored vehicles during the Second World War, but that was before my time!

[@luann7517]

You are so fortunate to have such an interesting job, Dave, and I admire your knowledge and passion. I wish I had a job that I loved as much. From a female perspective, I love the color of your engines. Blue is my favorite color!

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you LuAnn, really appreciate your nice comment and for watching today's show

[@andywomack3414]

It used to be that hundreds of thousands worked these interesting railway jobs. No more.

[@AlaskaErik]

Then you'll love Alaska Railroad's paint scheme.

[@kleetus92]

It's odd when a wheel set fails, can be a number of contributing factors. In the scale world, I had a set of cast iron wheels fail due to crystal growth believe it or not. The wheels on my one locomotive are a little over 4 inches in diameter on the diesel power trucks. Well apparently how they were cast, it allowed a rectangular crystal to grow centered on the axle. I couldn't figure out why the engine was hopping going down the track until I really watched the wheels and had light shining on it at the right angle. There were 4 points on every revolution, like a hidden box inside the wheel. The points were harder than the rest of the cast and were actually high spots on the tread. the flange was unaffected. Turned the wheels down on the lathe, it helped for a while, but difference in hardness became apparent quickly and completely new wheels needed to be made.

[@gravelydon7072]

You must have been running on steel rail as that likely would not happen on Aluminum rails. I do know about those hard spots in cast iron wheels as I used to machine them all the time. And that is why we used carbide cutting tools and ear plugs along with a face mask. Nearing almost 50 years ago now. 4.125 inch wheels were for freight cars and 5" or 5.25" were for locomotives in our scale.

[@ccrx6700]

Now that's a very interesting comment kleetus! I never realized those things could happen in model railroading, learn something new everyday, really thank you for sharing that with us

[@gravelydon7072]

@@ccrx6700 The problem is we run higher axle loadings than you would think because of size. In my case, my steam locomotive weighs 800 pounds on 4 axles. Doesn't seem like much until you scale it up. As mine is 1/8 full size, it increases at the cube of 8. So each axle is 200 X 8 X 8 X 8 = 102,400 lbs if scaled up. Or 51 tons on an axle if in full size. The Diesels we used to build came in only slightly less at about 150 pounds per axle. Or about 38 tons per axle if full sized. Which comes in close to what you really do see in full size which would be 152 tons. A GE P42DC weighs in at 134 tons. A GP40-2 weighs in at 125 Tons. Your SD40 likely weighs in at 180 ton but is spread over 6 axles. But why didn't we have bearing failures? Because our bearings could support the entire weight of the model Diesel on one axle.

[@TempoDrift1480]

That is very interesting.

[@vladimirarnost8020]

There is a very simple mathematical explanation of this phenomenon: Imagine a circle, its area is computed as: Pi * r^2. Pi is a constant, we can ignore it for the moment. What's left is r^2, which is an area of a *square*... Conclusion: Each circle contains a square trying to get out. :) (I'll get my coat)

[@yrunaked4]

I have heard flat wheels all my life, never until now have I seen what one looks like. I learn so much from your videos. Cheers, Rob

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Rob, yep, many many have heard them but rare anyone actually gets to see what one looks like unless you are a car man, so was very happy to be able to share this with you. We do appreciate your writing in and for watching

[@ghostlightwhisper6802]

I love that sound! When I was growing up, there was a rail yard not far from my house, and we heard the rails singing sometimes. It might be my imagination, but it seemed to happen more in the fall. There are no trains where I live now, and I really miss the sounds they make.

[@ccrx6700]

I understand missing the sounds, but you can always keep replaying this video...LOL Do appreciate your watching the show today

[@armanstuff7017]

Tends to happen more in the Autumn/Fall as leaves contribute to wheelslip/wheel-brake locks

[@bluefj-wc3vz]

Flat spots have always garnered my attention when the train is zinging by at track speed. Railroad music. Lol

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Mark, I try to get a new long one out every 5 days and fill in the middle with a shorts, takes me many days trying to keep up with comments as I only have so much time in the evening to do that. I'm really glad you enjoy these sir

[@lelksldfsjwjdo]

When Little Richard - the man who invented rock -n- roll - was a kid he lived next to a railroad. He said that someday he would write music that sounds like that.

[@ccrx6700]

@@lelksldfsjwjdo that's pretty neat thanks for sharing

[@erzahler1930]

Yep, you gotta address those flat spots! I've been told by more than a few railroaders that if flat spots aren't found and resolved, they can cause cracks in the wheel, and/or cause damage to the rails, and possibly lead to derailments. Some railroads have installed flat spot sensors and incorporated them into existing defect detectors.

[@ccrx6700]

@@erzahler1930 yep can be source of several unkind things. We don't have the wheel impact load detectors, just have my ears.... lol but your right some RR do have them

[@Cinco-da-mayo]

Love the blue loco colour and that laughter🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed the show S M. We do appreciate your writing in and for checking out the video sir.

[@Cinco-da-mayo]

@@ccrx6700 Thank you sir and lemme tell you that you’re doing a great job with ease which otherwise is risky! Checking those metallic wheels for cracks with bare fingers is dangerous,be careful!!!

[@valeriebassett3107]

Good thing you are there to catch that. Now I know what causes that noise. Thanks for another wonderful lesson.

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome and glad you learned something new Valerie, appreciate your nice comment my friend

[@johnrichardson7354]

That engine 22 sounds sweet. Kudos to whoever does the maintenance.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks John, we only have 3 locos so as you can imagine loco maintenance is a high priority here, and with them all being pretty old (newest was built in 1978 #22) there is a good bit to keep them running well

[@captainkeyboard1007]

The first time I heard about spotted wheels and flat wheels was in the 1960 decade when I was an adolescent on the [New York City] subway. Today, I understand that it is nothing but a flanged wheel. I like the way you made this subject sensible and factual at a glance.🚂

[@ccrx6700]

Appreciate the nice comment Captain Keyboard, glad you enjoyed. Thank you very much for taking the time to check out the video and may you have a very good day my friend.

[@captainkeyboard1007]

@@ccrx6700 You are surely welcome. I am pleased to be your friend. Thank you for typing to me. Happy Railroading!💙

[@ccrx6700]

@@captainkeyboard1007 👍😊

[@josephpalmieri3095]

So that's what a flat spot looks like. Thanks Dave 👍

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome Joseph, not all flat spots look exactly like this, some are not as bad or as big, but you got a pretty good idea now. Really appreciate your watching sir

[@gravelydon7072]

@@ccrx6700 :-) Some get bad enough that you think you are riding in a car with square wheels. A trip over the wheel lathe normally solves that problem. If they shell out too bad, the wheels get replaced with new ones.

[@josephpalmieri3095]

@@ccrx6700 You got me hooked Dave. I appreciate your knowledge and experience. Thanks for sharing.

[@ccrx6700]

@@josephpalmieri3095 very glad you are now a ccrx addict 😀 🤣

[@josephpalmieri3095]

@@ccrx6700 Not as glad as I am 😉

[@markbay144]

Great video! I never knew all the actual stuff that goes on being part of a railroad. You have a ton of knowledge that I love you share with us! Fascinating!! I look at trains and track totally different now ever since I’ve been watching your videos! Thank you again for everything you do and show us!!

[@ccrx6700]

Wow Mark, what a great comment! I'm thrilled that by watching these videos you have a greater appreciation for what all goes into keeping a train running and on the tracks. That is very special to me to hear you say that sir! One guy wrote in that when he goes out and looks at track, now he is thinking hey, this place needs cribbed out or their's a defect Dave told us about, that is just so awesome to hear that kind of thing happening with you guys

[@ovreazy3731]

Thanks for your channel. Been a short line engineer and brakeman for a while in Trona CA and I always am fascinated when our rail repair and car repair are called out to save the day. Flat spots happen and I hate when they are the power. Usually from repeated slide stopping hard, but when you have multiple people running the same engine it's bound to happen with all the different experience levels and emergency situations. Makes calling car counts to the engineer over the noise difficult. Keep up the videos I'm enjoying them

[@ccrx6700]

Awesome! Do you know my good friend Michael Ball? MOW at Trona. We talk about every day, he just sent me a cool orange Trona Railway T shirt. They had a derailment there today, car doors opened and got 4 cars off track. Glad you are enjoying the videos my good man, we do appreciate your watching.

[@ovreazy3731]

@@ccrx6700 I sure do. I love everyone at the TRC we are very close group. I gave up my engineer though for now(Done many coal trains) and am exclusively brakeman/Forman for them at Boron CA. I gravity move cars down the old Mojave to Barstow main line. Now its just a spur (Rich Spur)which includes the Rocket Spur the Edward's Air Force used to transport their rocket fuel. We transload 24-28 trucks of soda ash from Trona into railcairs. And nobody bothers me and it's quiet and I get to look at jets all day. Would like to see how use guys fix switches internally and changing. And bending rail for curves possibly. Thanks

[@peterthomas2139]

Another great video Dave. You heard it, identified it, found the defect. That's why you're an asset to your company. Thanks for letting us come along. Looking forward to the next adventure..

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you very much Peter for the nice comment, we do appreciate your kind words and for watching the show today sir

[@johnstepp3576]

It didn't look like a 2 inch flat spot and them shelled tread wasn't condemnable

[@TheyCallHimDietSeth]

Thank you for another fascinating video - I really can't tell you how much I enjoy seeing railroading from your perspective! Thanks for sharing!

[@ccrx6700]

Your very welcome, it's great to hear you are enjoying and finding some value in them, I do appreciate the very kind comment my friend

[@christopherrabaldo3377]

Thanks Dave! Getting alot of comments. Thank you for answering our questions. I'd love to see longer videos about the history of the mine and the area or anything really. Thanks again.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Christopher, appreciate the nice comment and for watching today's show. I always like when viewers tell me what they want to see. Will try to fit some in next year. Right now I got enough vids on tube thru the first of the year just waiting to get made public. Lot's RR stuff coming this fall and winter

[@mikehazelwood6106]

My girlfriend lives along the rails and has measured the railsong at 85 decibels at her back door! Going with my father to pick up his paycheck, we often walked through the Roundhouse Shop and I got to see the trucks being removed and the wheels being shaved down! As a kid, I walked the pits, rode the turntable, rode in the Caboose, blew the Whistle and Rang the Bell.... back when the clapper was connected to a long rope, that went back to the engineer's seat!

[@ccrx6700]

Very interesting comment Mike! Really enjoyed reading it. So appreciate your sharing with us and for watching the video my good man.

[@captainkeyboard1007]

For more information, the act of "shaving down" or you may think of as "trimming" a wheel is called "wheel truing."

[@johnnycee5179]

I never understood what was meant by the rails singing until there was Dave. Thank you Dave. I imagine rocks and various debre on tracks takes it's toll on those big metal wheels.

[@ccrx6700]

Very little stuff like that gets on our tracks Johnny, other than a lot of spilled coal from the leaky hopper car doors.... :-) Thank you so much for taking the time to visit with us and may you have a very good day my friend.

[@ralfie8801]

The rails themselves are what wears the wheels down, especially sharply curved rail. The rails wear too, more so in the curves.

[@1162labring]

Thanks for your videos, the side frame from the truck set was made at the plant my dad worked at for 39 years. He had retired by the time it was made but nice to see something made there in your video.

[@ccrx6700]

Wow that is pretty neat Leonard! I would love to see sometime how these are cast and put together. Do appreciate your writing in and for watching my good man and tell you dad thanks for his contribution to the RR industry, without dedicated workers like him building these truck sets we wouldn't have any trains to watch!

[@1162labring]

@@ccrx6700 Unfortunately my father has passed, but he would have appreciated your kind words,

[@raygale4198]

Love the video, simple, no BS and very informative. I had a track engineer here in Australia tell me that singing rail is actually a mis-name, it's the wheels themselves that sing. In profile a wheel has a resemblance to a drum kit symbol and the friction between the flange and the rail head sets of a resonance vibration in the wheel, wheels from different makers with different web thicknesses and shape will sing differently. Good catch on that flat spot, that was quite nasty and would not being doing your track any favours pounding along as it was, easier to replace a wheel set than have the rail head reground.

[@ccrx6700]

It's metal against metal, your comment is making me think! I totally agree that different wheels with different profiles will create different sounds, I hear that all the time. Have preached to these guys for years now if all the cars have a similar sound and yet one of them has a much greater sound, there is a problem with a wheel on that car. Really do appreciate your excellent comment Ray, hope you will write in more. I like it when someone makes me think. Rail head gage face remains fairly constant thru a curve. Wheels are all sorts of varying degree of wear. Yet is the singing a combination of both rail head and wheel vibrations, or just only the wheel? I'm gonna put that in my pipe and smoke it for awhile. Am thinking the sound is a combination of both. Your thoughts?

[@raygale4198]

@@ccrx6700 Worn wheels, specially when the wheel flange has worn 'flat' have a bigger rubbing area against the side of the rail head. Our freight wheel profiles here have the tread ground slightly conical to help with self centering and reduce rail slapping, the tip of the flange is ground into a radius equal to flange thickness. The ringing as far as I remember him saying starts in the wheel flange but certainly travels into the rail at the point of contact. The amount of science involved in rolling a car along the track smoothly and safely is beyond us mere mortals, stay safe.

[@ccrx6700]

@@raygale4198 I can agree Ray with the sound starting with the flange. Appreciate your writing back, I love to hear what other railroaders are doing and thinking, it really helps me here. There are only 2 of us on track and my buddy is a rookie and doesn't know much bout RR at all, so I have no one talk railroadin with unless a RR contractor happens to come in

[@therayven3147]

What's interesting is that the fact that the train wheels and rails actually have sorta like harmonics... If you stand next to the rails after a train goes by, you can sometimes still hear the screeching through the rails... Guess it's kinda like a guitar string, when hooked up to an amp with high gain, after you pluck the string, it will continue to make a high pitch feedback sound... I'm guessing the train wheels resonate through the rails... I mean it makes sense...

[@raygale4198]

@@therayven3147 The science involved is quite complex from what I was told, but a musical string is probably a really good comparison. We found even the ties made a difference, concrete ties with newer clips and hardware seemed to sing longer than uneven old timber ties, and welded rail is more musical than bolted rail. It seems to relate to tension on the rail, a good comparison to a music string.

[@mikemissel7785]

Great video again Dave and as you say “That’s Railroading”

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Mike, great that you enjoyed today's show sir, really do appreciate your nice comments and for watching

[@alainaarrhodge5900]

Cool stuff! I always hear it, but I've never seen it. Thanks for teaching us something new today.

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome, great to hear you enjoyed watching, we do appreciate that

[@akduh01]

Awesome, symphony of steel captured here👍

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed the video, we do appreciate your writing in and for watching akduh01

[@jeffbronowicz3264]

Never a dull moment dave, great video!!

[@ccrx6700]

Always something here Jeff! But that makes for good video content...LOL But hey, that's railroadin!

[@dorothycole8611]

Amazing that you can spot the car with the flat wheel! Good work!

[@michaelsmodelrailroading7665]

Flat spots on wheels cause a very audible and repetitive "tramp" sound as the car passes.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks, but I got good ears, except when the wife is talking....LOL

[@derrickanderson4932]

Good job! Keeping railroad safe. Dave

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks Derrick, appreciate the nice comment and for watching the show today sir

[@scottleidenberger4007]

Nice, thanks for sharing ! Looks like you ware many hats on this railroad.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Scott, glad you enjoyed today's show sir. and yep I do get around. We are short manned here so get involved in a lot of different aspects of the operation, but it's fun doing different stuff all the time. For years I was a barge loader and doing that you were stuck in a chair for 12 hours a day and that's all you did, this is much better getting to move around and do different stuff

[@steverudder3321]

Glad that you were smart enough to be out there in the unpredictable field and able to catch and identify the culprit wheel and its defect. Get them rails a'singin again!

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks Steve, just doing my job. Do appreciate your writing in with the nice comment and for watching the show today sir

[@KB-gs8zi]

Hey Dave !! Good to see & hear what the rails are saying !! Just the same on a Big rig with hearing the tires sing on the road & When there is a tire going bad B/4 they blow apart !! Have a good week & Yepper ,, the weather is gona change quickly !!

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks K B, I love to hear the sounds of a train over the rails! It's pretty cool, some curves have different pitches and some cars have the same differences in the same spots. railroadin is amazing to me. Am waiting on the leaves to change so I can make a whole line video, they are not cooperating this year. Most are falling off before they change. and yep on the weather, wife was cold tonight so we turned the heat on the house for first time

[@stlfomoco]

Always a good day when we get a new video from Dave!

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed Mark! Thanks for watching sir

[@briankemp5206]

Great learning video. Thanks Dave.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks Brian, great to hear you enjoyed my friend

[@johnkelley9877]

That was interesting seeing the flat spots. Thanks for sharing this.

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you like that John. Lot's rail fans hear that noise as a train is going down track and don't know what it is caused by. I used to get a lot of questions on that so made this video to give an answer. Thanks for all your great support of the channel my friend.

[@326dad]

Good catch, Dave ! Gotta utilize all your senses when railroadin'.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks Kurt! yep eyes and ears are vital to keeping a train on the tracks and rolling down them

[@leftylou6070]

Thanks for the ed-ju-ma-ca-tion in wheelology. I never seen one close up before. Thanks for the Vid!

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome Lefty Lou, glad you enjoyed and we do appreciate your watching sir.

[@chrisbailey9331]

You’re a multitalented man that’s for sure, and you have a very infectious laugh too; you keep filming, and we’ll keep watching 👍🏻😁 What is it that you say? That’s railroading‼️👍🏻😊

[@ccrx6700]

Ha Ha Ha.,... when I first glanced at your comment I thought it said mutilated. Thanks for the very nice comment and for watching today Chris.

[@irongoatrocky2343]

good catch on the flat spot.....hess hammer heading the rails and less chance of a catastrophic car failure!

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you and you are right, if this was let go for much longer, it could have resulted in a big failure and derailment. Appreciate your writing in and for watching my friend, always enjoy your comments sir!

[@Phillytravler]

That's Railroadin.... Good info Dave...

[@ccrx6700]

Henry! Good to see you again and hope all is well with you my friend. Appreciate your kind words and for watching

[@jeffreygosselin7576]

Very interesting! Thank you for sharing this with us.

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome Jeffrey, really glad you enjoyed watching the show my friend.

[@ianspeckmaier9565]

Learned something new, Thanks for the video.

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome Ian, great to hear you enjoyed and found it of some value. We do appreciate your watching

[@PRRGG1]

Good catch Dave.

[@ccrx6700]

Just doing my job but thank you very much for the nice comment and for watching the show today my friend

[@Ghostrider-71]

I have always wondered how a wheel flat spot happens. Great video.

[@ccrx6700]

Most often it is caused by a brake hanging up causing a sliding wheel, but this time the wheel just worn itself out. Appreciate your watching the show

[@andrewthacker114]

Enjoyed,thanks for sharing.

[@ccrx6700]

You are welcome Andrew, glad you enjoyed. Thank you so much for watching and writing in. May you have a wonderful day my friend.

[@My12521252]

I'd love to see a video on how you change the wheel! Thanks for all the great videos

[@billmoran3812]

Just slide the Jack under, get out your 4way wrench and unbolt it. Put on the spare. Just kidding. Actually you raise the car off the truck, roll it out from under the car, unbolt the journal bearing keeper plate, lift up the truck off the axle, and roll the wheel set out from under. Then roll a new wheel set under the truck and put everything back. You need a crane and car jacks to lift the car and the truck and pick up the wheel sets. Heavy work, but not difficult. That’s railroadin’ !

[@gravelydon7072]

@@billmoran3812 It can also be done by the use of side booms. Sometimes just the wheel set is removed while the car and truck is up in the air.

[@beeble2003]

@@billmoran3812 Any car built in the last 50+ years will have roller bearings, not journals.

[@ccrx6700]

I don't very often get to help out changing them, but will try in the future to get it done. It's easy, disconnect 2 brake pins, jack the car up, then roll the truck set out. Thanks for writing in and for watching today's show

[@russelltrupia4479]

I spotted that flat spot about the same time you did , as a matter of fact I was yelling to stop at the video. Great job Dave.

[@ccrx6700]

Great minds think alike Russell!

[@russelltrupia4479]

@@ccrx6700 AMEN

[@johnd2042]

Good video. I learned something new. I always enjoy your videos. Good content.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you John, really great to hear you are enjoying and learning new things, that's pretty cool to me that I can share some of what I have learned over the years with others. I do appreciate your watching sir

[@brucejohnson7944]

Love your videos. I learn a lot.

[@ccrx6700]

Golly, thank you very much Bruce, really do appreciate your nice comment and great to hear you are enjoying these

[@tallmike6598]

Good stuff, Dave !

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Mike, great to hear you enjoyed today's show sir

[@NowInAus]

When you can feel them quarter mile away… lovely to see the damage. Subscribing for more of this good stuff

[@ccrx6700]

Welcome to our community NowInAus, we are pleased to have you with us. Thank you very much for visiting with us to check out the video my friend.

[@tomy.1846]

Excellent video, thanks! 😎

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Tom, great to hear you enjoyed watching the show today sir

[@ericcoffedgp40]

Very interesting! That was very interesting to watch! That SD38 sounded good!

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Eric, great to hear you enjoyed the show today my friend

[@ericcoffedgp40]

@@ccrx6700 You're welcome, I sure did!

[@ccrx6700]

@@ericcoffedgp40 😊

[@2xrpm]

Another cool vid. I hear those flat spots all the time on the RR's in my area (NS, CSX & GC). Always wondered about them because they almost sound destructive.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you very much, great to hear you enjoyed. Almost every NS or CSX train I happen to catch round here, I hear one or more flat spot, not that all are out of Fed specs, but sounds to one degree or other, it's a common problem all over RR's everywhere

[@johnledger7763]

Dave this was a great video keep up the good work Sir.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you John, really pleased to hear you enjoyed the show, we do so much appreciate your watching my good man

[@_Gypsy]

Oh wow, I always heard that sound on trains but never figured it would be a flat spot, ya learn something new every day I suppose.

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you found the video of some value, most hear these but then never to get see what they actually look like so was pleased i could share that with your guys

[@geraldblackburn4883]

how they, the wheel or the track holds up, it is amazing.

[@Nico-iv1cq]

It's very interesting! Great videos, thank's Sr. Dave.🇧🇷🙋

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Nico really glad you enjoyed the show today. We do appreciate your checking it out my friend.

[@rayshutsa6690]

Thank you very much for another great day. It would be awesome to see a truck set changed out. I have never seen it done. These video's are very educational. 😀❤🇨🇦

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you very much Ray and do appreciate the nice comment and for watching sir. I will try to get a vid of the truck set getting changed sometime, I don't often get involved in doing the car maintenance so it may be awhile. It's easy to do, disconnect 2 brake linkages, jack car up and pull truck set out, then vice versa to replace. 2 guys can do it easy in 20 minutes or so

[@kevinrammelsberg8621]

@@ccrx6700 Theres videos on YT that shows how a wisconsin railroad i think it is changes there train wheels.

[@zalmaflash]

I've heard them and now I got to see them. Thanks

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome and really glad I could share this with you, we do appreciate your watching the show today

[@thomaseriksson6256]

Thank you for the instruction

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed Thomas, really appreciate your viewing today's show sir

[@EJP286CRSKW]

Dave, I'm sure a lot of us would love to see what happens at the other end of the line, if it is possible. Car unloading, and barge loading. EJP

[@ccrx6700]

I do not yet have a video made on barge loading EJP, but here's one on us dumping the hopper cars you may enjoy. And thanks so much my friend for visiting with us today. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJyTg42rYtqsp80

[@bvogt2326]

Every other car on my CSX main sounds Iike that. Jeez. Nice video. That wheel is whooped.

[@ccrx6700]

Oh dear, that's not good. Glad you enjoyed today's show and your right, that wheel said I'm tired of going round and round and want to retire and go fishing

[@TriGogglin]

Your playing my song Dave, thanks for showing the actual wheel, I always hear the flat spots when I'm out fishing, but never get to see the wheel.

[@ccrx6700]

Your certainly welcome, and no one else ever gets to see that either unless you are a car repair man or inspector. Different sized flat spots have different pitches as they go down the tracks, this was a pretty bad one, I've seen and heard worse tho. appreciate your watching my friend. Please don't tell Mrs. Pappy I'm the one playing your song.....LOL

[@TriGogglin]

@@ccrx6700 lol 😆

[@Shenanigans3D]

I deliver lime to these mines.. always a treat to see the inerworkings of the rails

[@ccrx6700]

That lime is a vital part of saving lives under ground for the miners! Don't know if you are aware or not, but your deliveries are most important to the safety of the miners. Thanks for writing in and watching and keep those deliveries coming.

[@StormySkyRailProductions]

Nice visual video of the bad wheel and all the explanation of what the process is to repair it.

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed Steve, bet you've heard plenty of these over your career

[@StormySkyRailProductions]

@@ccrx6700 Oh yes I have and at times we have had to patrol track behind a really bad wheel.

[@ccrx6700]

@@StormySkyRailProductions 👍

[@paintnamer6403]

I used to operate a submerged arc welder in a factory and that is a process that is used to build up RR wheels with weld then machined to spec. I welded large structural components for cranes. Submerged means constantly being covered with dry granular flux.

[@ccrx6700]

Now that's really interesting to learn, I have never heard of submerged welding, thanks for the enlightenment

[@ChristianBitter]

wow beautiful sound I love it

[@ccrx6700]

Glad you enjoyed the show today! we do appreciate your watching

[@Trenes-en-Rosario7756]

fantastic video friend !!!. beautiful train, a very good job from you friend, thanks for sharing👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🤝🤝🤝👍👍😃🤩. greetings from Rosario, Argentina !!! 🙋‍♂️

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Gigena, really glad you enjoyed today's show

[@keenanmcbreen7073]

trains make all of the best sounds, period.

[@ccrx6700]

Certainly will not argue with you on that Keenan. We do appreciate your watching sir

[@clydemarkham7915]

Great and interesting video. Thamk you for sharing.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Clyde, great to hear you enjoyed the show today sir

[@PlanetMojo]

There is a stretch of track across the Mississippi River from us on the CP line that every time a train goes by it squeals like a stuck pig. I believe it is from the tight curve in that area, but I never knew that they could squeal like that from a bad wheel as well. You learn something new every other day 😉

[@ccrx6700]

Squeals come from the flanges digging in against the rail head face, the flat spot you heard had nothing to do with that. Flat spots are thumping kind of sounds. I should have made that differentiation when I made the movie, just didn't think about it. Flat spots on wheel do change the way a wheel set negotiates a curve to a degree and can contribute to a greater amount of squeal however. Forgot to mention propane pad looks great, but am surprised they cut it wet? They usually wait a day or so here before cutting

[@PlanetMojo]

@@ccrx6700 Thanks for the info Dave, I really enjoy learning more about trains! On the concrete pad, I asked them to form the joint. That way I could have the bullnose edges to match the front and sides. I should cut a joint in the front though, but I'll deal with that later. Right now I have trusses looming in the near future 😮

[@ccrx6700]

@@PlanetMojo 👍

[@realvanman1]

That sound of the wheels singing around the curve makes me really miss railroading. The crews were terrible on the BNSF about dragging cuts of cars out of the tracks at Watson yard without first knocking off the handbrakes at the far end. I hated flat spots. I heard they finally got tough on the crews about that.

[@ccrx6700]

Glad I could help relive some good memories. yep, dragging brakes is a very common cause of flat spots, in this case the wheel just got tired of going round and round and wanted to retire and go fishing....LOL Appreciate your writing in and for watching

[@YawnGod]

I enjoy this guy's laugh.

[@ccrx6700]

Nice to hear you enjoy watching, I'll try to laugh more....LOL Do appreciate your writing in and for watching the show

[@johndanaher6371]

Cool video!

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you John, great to hear that you enjoyed today's show sir

[@wayneakins7850]

Nice catch

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you Wayne for writing in and for the nice comment sir

[@tymz-r-achangin]

Me and my teenage girlfriend use to love laying back against the windshield on the hood of my pickup truck out in that beautiful country on a sunny day and now n then got lucky a train would come through. Was pretty cool getting to wave to him and he would blow that horn back at us and I dont know what it is but it would like somehow energize me for the rest of the day to "pick up my step" Yeah, the good ol' ways of the good ol' days and oh how I miss them especially when every day we wake up anymore to see how much of the morals n values and fundamental things have been stripped from our society

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks for writing in with the nice story,, good memories. I can just imagine being there. Appreciate your watching the video today my good man.

[@chadgeorge6770]

Got to love them SD

[@ccrx6700]

Yes sir Chad, what not to love bout those old girls still in revenue service. Thanks for watching today's show

[@Boilermaker-Rick]

You were so excited about the rails singing that you forgot which direction the train was going. Lol!

[@ccrx6700]

I get like that sometimes.....LOL Sometimes my train of thought gets derailed..... Thanks for watching Rick

[@ssweeps]

Cmon Dave jack up that railcar and fix that wheel...LOL!

[@ccrx6700]

It got taken into the shop after it was dumped out, so they have some pretty big jacks in there that can easily lift the rail car up. I didn't want to show off by hand lifting the car tho.... :-)

[@thomasmccardle725]

I love those big porches on the sd40-2’s

[@ccrx6700]

There is a lot of room Thomas, it looks good too. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the video my friend.

[@capttom7772]

GREAT Video Dave ! Really informative and thorough. YT says I watched this one (red lined) but i think I would have remembered a video as important as this. This is 2 months old at this time with 630 comments and I am amazed that you have answered almost all ... except for one that I saw ... I had to put my 2 cents in to him.🤣🎅

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you very much my friend, hey better late watching than never tho. I do appreciate your very nice comments and your faithfulness in watching, really glad you enjoyed the show.

[@davidbass7593]

Great video dave yeah thos flat spots sure are noisey hear them on lots of trains

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you David, great to hear you liked the show today sir

[@captaintrips2980]

The first time I heard a flat spot pounding towards me as I stood trackside I really thought there was going to be some kind of catastrophe right then and there. The Doppler effect was wild! I really enjoy it when I get to hear it occasionally. It's the sound it makes coming towards me and quickly fading, again it's the Doppler effect in my head that I enjoy. Sorry, Dave, don't think less of me :)

[@ccrx6700]

Well Captain Tripps, you can always replay this video a hundred times to hear it as much as you want.... LOL it's got a distinct thump. Really appreciate your tuning in to the show today my friend.

[@majorwoody1720]

I never knew that noise is a flat spot. Sounds amazing though 👍👍

[@ccrx6700]

Now you know when your watching a train what to listen for, NS thru here I hear several of them, not all are as bad a shape as the one in the video.

[@majorwoody1720]

ccrx 6700 very interesting. I’ve never heard the rails sing like that either, it was amazing

[@billsmith3195]

Facinating. South African Railways had an engineer here, Mr. Scheffel designed a truck/bogie for high speed on our 3ft 6in gauge that also reduced wear and tear. They conducted some of these test on my section from a station called Midway to Westonarea. A single track with a few stations and level crossings. They reached speeds of 242km/h. My techs and I had to stand by in the section. All stations were lockedown. All switches were clamped. The loco and a single coach came through and left a dust cloud. Quite exciting. By 1975 these trucks were put into service.

[@ccrx6700]

Awesome Bill, that must have been an exciting day to watch that and be there. Hope you are feeling better my friend

[@billsmith3195]

@@ccrx6700 sure was and kind of scary too. Thanks Dave Feeling much better. Have to be careful though. I had a cardiac bypass back in 1992 and was told its good for 10/12 years. So I'm.playing

[@billsmith3195]

In injury time now. But not a problem I ready and anxious to meet my Lord Jesus.

[@ccrx6700]

@@billsmith3195 wow Bill, really sorry hear that, please keep me informed. We will be praying sir 🙏

[@billsmith3195]

@@ccrx6700 thanks Dave. Im ok. Just for a giggle, have a look on KZbin Mill Brook Railroad. Look for track joining repairs. I hope you don't do this. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@paulbergen9114]

We have a tight S curve next to a track with a tight turn just south of downtown on the old MILW RD .main and it really is. noisy with TTX well cars and to a degree auto racks. Even Amtrak at medium speed squeals loudly. What's funny is right by the curve are 2 high end rent apartments. Good work on finding the flat spot I'm sure years of experience help

[@gravelydon7072]

Flange/rail greasers are often installed when the people in those type places start complaining.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks for sharing Paul, Gravelydon is right, RR's many times put greasers near curves that are in residential areas, but even they do not always prevent flange squeal from happening. We have a greaser right going into curve 15 that is near several houses and still get a good bit of squeal on that 8 degree curve. TTX has a great history, started by PRR in a joint venture with N&W in 1955 as trailer train which became TTX in 1991. In 1974 Rail Box was started as a subsidiary of Trailer Train. Still see a few Rail Box cars out there, lots of TTX

[@raymondsprengelmeyer1278]

Good job finding the squeaky wheel! I think that would be difficult, it probably takes an experienced man such as yourself!

[@ccrx6700]

I'm sure Raymond it would take you bout 10 minutes to figure out how to do this now that you've watched the video. Do appreciate your watching sir

[@ericzerkle5214]

I hear them bang bang bang all the time here. I literally live next to the NS WLR... Some of them really pound the rails.

[@ccrx6700]

Usually when NS goes thru here and I happen to catch a train, there is usually bout 1 or 2 in the consist with flat spots, I highly doubt it any of them are out of fed specs tho, but obviously I can't measure them, but the sound isn't nearly as bad as the one in this video. We do appreciate your watching Eric

[@ericzerkle5214]

@@ccrx6700 They fly though here and I can hear the flat spots from the house.

[@channelsixtysix066]

Yes Dave, we can't have wheels with flat spots running on your beautiful track. Good you were able to pick out the car concerned. I've heard some shockers over the years I've been looking at railway videos. Very difficult to find them all though with the length of trains these days. Some of the worse ones have been in Canada. They are essentially a hammer, pounding on the track.

[@ccrx6700]

Thanks and glad you enjoyed. Most railfans have heard these noises but very few have ever actually seen what one looks like, so was happy I could share that. Flat spots hard on rails and truck set bearings, they get reported here as soon as I hear a wheel that doesn't sound normal and then they get looked at. Appreciate your watching ss

[@briankoski817]

I can't understand why you don't get KIP readings from bad wheelset when they arrive at your shop. We would get the notifications all the time for any car with bad KIP readings of 70, 90 and 140 = commendable wheelset... I thought the AIE tags would notify you as the train passes down their destination points and passes multiple sensors. We would receive the notifications of wheel "L1", R4"... or whatever having a KIP reading of 90 for example, then we would put our wheelset gauges on it to see if it's ok or if the car owner want's it swapped out... I don't understand why you don't get notifications on bad KIP readings. Thanks.

[@ccrx6700]

@@briankoski817 now that's very interesting and a great idea. We don't have that kind of equipment here to detect stuff like that. But will do some research on it and approach management with the concept. Thank you Brian for the idea 💡

[@geraldblackburn4883]

I used to live about a half mile, maybe .7 mile, from a well used track, single track, (maybe 6-8 per day) and the freight would come through and there would be a wheel going Whump, Whump, Whump, and you could feel it in the ground for a LONG time before you hear it, it HAS to do damage to the rails.

[@michaelsmodelrailroading7665]

It does damage the rails, over time. The repeated impact load from a flat spot will eventually embrittle the rail's surface. Cracks and pits will start to form.

[@geraldblackburn4883]

@@michaelsmodelrailroading7665 I lived a half mile from some tracks, (we moved) but you could feel them, the pounding, WOMP, WOMP, it has to be damaging the rails.

[@ccrx6700]

It sure does nothing the help the rail, also is hard on truck set bearings, lot of unwanted vibration for sure

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

I wish I had video of the train I saw at a crossing 3-4 years ago with a broken flange on a car in the middle of the train. It was a UP line with CWR which is quiet. I was about 4 cars back and I started to hear clang clang clang CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG! And sure enough I saw the RR car missing part of the flange on one wheel. I called the UP emergency number after I got up to the crossing box.

[@ccrx6700]

Great heads up move on your part on that sir! I bet they appreciated that info. Used to be guys would watch and listen as trains went by various spots on the mains, but with cutbacks and things like that, it doesn't happen nearly as much now, so you very well could have saved a derailment from happening down the line and saved UP big bucks. We need more folks like you out there

[@szponiasty]

In Poland this would have "no go" even with much better condition wheels than all of the rest in this video xD

[@gilde915]

same in germany

[@rebelrailroader]

Listen to that beautiful song! 😍

[@ccrx6700]

Your welcome and great to hear you enjoyed Ralph. Flat spots are not all the same, you saw a particularly bad one, although some are worse than this

[@rebelrailroader]

@@ccrx6700 wrong person Dave. Yes, flat spots are as varied as their causes. Will you reprofile the wheel or replace? The flange looks like it's almost in deviation.

[@ccrx6700]

@@rebelrailroader oops, sorry Zach, 😞

[@ccrx6700]

@@rebelrailroader replace it, they have no way to true a wheel here

[@cecilledbetter2715]

keep them trains rolling🚂🚂🚂

[@ccrx6700]

Yep Cecil, gotta keep the coal movin, and everyone here working, do appreciate your watching today show sir

[@dodgydruid]

Here in ol' Blighty we call 'em "flat tyres" from the days when engines and coaches had steel "tyres" pressed onto disc wheels, its still practiced today especially on old heritage steam loco's where they heat up and press on precisely machined tyres onto wheels.

[@ccrx6700]

They pressed on steel tires on most all steam locos here also. Awesome to watch a video on how they heated the tire and then beat it on with sledge hammers to the wheel. Thanks for writing in and watching the video today my friend.

[@stevencooper2464]

Years ago, I had a landlord who had work 30+ years for Norfolk Western (remember them?) as a locomotive engineer; he had been trained to NEVER lock up the brakes on the train, no matter what the circumstances, because he would end up with a flat spot on every wheel on every axle on every car. He quit driving trains after his locomotive plowed through a milk truck and an empty school bus. Some people think driving a train is easy.

[@deconteesawyer5758]

"Some people think driving a train is easy." Some of the young ladies that drive trains think so. They seem to enjoy it too.

[@stevencooper2464]

@@deconteesawyer5758 I was refering to the mental anguish many engineers go through after they collide with a car or truck, especially if someone died.

[@deconteesawyer5758]

@@stevencooper2464 Yes, that's the thing about English. It is a wonderful thing that allows us to express exactly what we mean. We do not always do so. Thirty + years in any job is normally considered well done, a retirement point. Discussing death is uncommon in the US, and not doing so quite understandably magnifies the impact of witnessing what happens to every single one of us.

[@ccrx6700]

Yep Steven, N & W a great RR, they had some tracks not too far from here near Pittsburgh. You are so right, I tell all the young guys, never throw the train into emergency, not only is it hard on wheels but really hard on track. It can be totally destructive in really hot temps, that rail is like a rubber gum band when rail temps get over 100 and it will throw that track all over the place.

[@kens.3729]

I bet a number of folks don’t realize there are Detectors for Flat Spot Wheels. They get Replaced.👍

[@ccrx6700]

Our detector here is my ears ... LOL Our detector at MP 8 does measure wheel heat but doesn't do the flat spots. Thanks for watching the show today Ken. Certain sounds are obviously louder than others on wheels, I've heard worse here. One time when they got back found there was a chunk out of the wheel, that was a significantly loud thump going down track

[@jordansimpson9519]

Gotta be part groundhog to save the mines. Hey! That's Railroadin'

[@ccrx6700]

LOL, yep Jordan. I've spent half my career crawling under tamper and coal cars seems like... Ha Ha Hah Appreciate your writing in and for watching sir

[@johnsmart964]

Thank you for bringing us this excellent video, it is interesting about the flat spots on the wheels, although the one you had there was quite a severe one which can cause damage to the rail. If it was a minor flat spot, the mechanics that dealt with the diesel multiple units would just say that it could keep running as it would just run out through wearing. If it was very noisy they would send the unit to the wheel lathe as you could not have passengers listening to wheel flat sounds especially as we had the continuous welded rail. It is interesting to see about the freight railroad as I only dealt with passenger trains.

[@ralfie8801]

The flat spots just get worse as they are used. They have to be changed sooner or later or the wheel can crack or break and cause a derailment.

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you John, very interesting to me when you say "it would just run out through wearing" I've noticed that some flat spots on cars do exactly that here. i would be most interested in hearing again from you if you could elaborate more on that, I want to learn about this what it seems to me is a phenomenon

[@gravelydon7072]

@@ralfie8801 They can be some times trued with wheel truing brake shoes if on locomotives. Freight cars normally get the axle or the whole truck rolled out and the wheel set/truck replaced. Passenger cars often just get run over the wheel lathe with no removal of the wheels.

[@ralfie8801]

gravelydon Yeah, we used those for a couple of years, then stopped because they just don't really work. But when the wheels are getting flat spots from just being worn out, they need to be changed. We had those flange lubricators sticks on the locomotives for a while also, that went by the wayside also.

[@cedarcam]

@@ralfie8801 Flange lubricator sticks? Are these graphite. I went to one of our heritage railways recently and a loco had a strange thing on the wheel, when I asked they said it was a holder with graphite blocks in held against the flange by a spring. They cut down on wear. Shown near the beginning of this kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYfJeWOtg8arpMU

[@stretchlimo7275]

Dave love hearing them rails sing, gives me chills! Thanks for showing what a "flat tire" looks like, now do the brakes hang up often on you? That's what causes flat spots right? Great video my friend, have a great evening 👍🏼😎🇺🇸

[@ralfie8801]

Not necessarily, just getting a lot of wear on the wheels can cause it also. Notice he said the wheel tread was concave instead of conical. That's just excessive wear from years of use, and the steel that the wheel is made out of probably work hardens with use, so if that happens at a different rate in different places around the wheel, the softer spots go flat.

[@stretchlimo7275]

Makes sense Ralfie, thanks for the input👍🏼😎

[@ccrx6700]

Thank you, great to hear you enjoyed. Brakes hanging up are a very common cause of flat spots developing, was not the case in this wheel, it just was worn out. our hot wheel detector at MP 8 checks for hot wheels which are caused by brakes hanging and we actually do get extremely few of them. We do get some cars where the brakes hang up, but there is also a valve on the brake control valve on the car where we can cut out a brake system on the whole car, and we've done this. FRA rules have a certain amount of cars in a consist that can have the car brakes cut out

[@therayven3147]

@@ccrx6700 they call that a "hot box"... Either the brake is hung, or an axle barring went bad... These cause the wheels to overheat... Correct me if it m wrong on this?

[@robertheinkel6225]

@@therayven3147 a hot box is an overheated bearing. The heat will not damage the wheel, but it will destroy the bearing.