Finding Our Gun & Getting Organised - Disco Elysium | Blind Playthrough [Part 22]

[@Meta_Mage]

I really like Joyce as a character. She knows she's a terrible rich person, but she's also honest and frank about it, if not even apologetic. Also just an absolute joy to talk to.

[@nonrepeating_nonterminating]

You've been thorough with your tasks. Kim likes thorough. Kim likes what you've done :)

[@KuromiAK]

1:44:04 Imagine hearing "I need to obtain a gun and put my partner to sleep" out of context xd

[@andreasbuehler1821]

Dolores day's flagship was the Lysergique. Lysergic acid: ergot. Lysergic Acid diethlylamide: LSD. They thought they hallucinated the new world.

[@basicsimp8798]

I love how well written Joyce is. She knows she's not innocent, that she did had a hand in the event and just wanted to minimise the casualty. Plus she's a delight to talk to, the fact that Joyce can sympathize with Evrat and genuinely wanted a peaceful resolution is telling. In contrast, Evrat was manipulating us the entire time, he had did friendly demeanor throughout the game.

[@bdarecords_]

Yeah, Joyce is very human and her heart is in a good place despite what some of her beliefs and actions may suggest.

[@MatrixOne500]

Local gullible Ultra makes excuses for his whip-cracker because she's "nice to talk to." Like clockwork... the irony of saying she's after a "peaceful solution" after she sent in a death squad of war criminals. I'd suggest a replay, but I'm sure your neocortex will curl in on itself again after the first flash of friendly white teeth again.

[@puupipo]

They're _both_ really well written, complex characters imo. Joyce is purposefully made to be likeable and Evrart is purposefully made to be hard-to-like, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Joyce is a good person and Evrart is a bad person. They both have their goals and wants but their methods for reaching what they want are very different, and they've chosen those methods based on the cards they've been dealt. I think it's important to consider how Joyce can afford to be nice to people who she wants something from because of her wealth, since if things don't go her way she can either throw so much money at the problem that it fixes itself or she can just leave and go somewhere else. And how Evrart's methods are blatantly manipulative and "not nice", but what he is looking to achieve isn't necessarily wrong or bad.

[@ninjatoriumnova2483]

@@puupipo Not to mention that Evrart is also deliberately putting up an act to appear as slimy as possible, and it takes some investigation to realize that no, he actually does care about the cause, he's just playing you to give that cause a chance to kick off without being nipped in the bud. He's not a "good" guy, but he's not nearly as amoral as he presents himself. Both him and Joyce, as well as a couple of other characters you spend a lot of time interacting with, are incredibly well written.

[@WheelieTruther]

No way, I've never seen the tower collapse before. Looked it up and it turns out if you don't have 30 communist points the tower will fall. It was probably my favourite moment in the game, shame but looks like you just didn't have enough plasm and belief in communism comrade.

[@Pir-o]

Communism collapsing? Color me surprised

[@Potatezone]

Somehow, it makes my own playthrough more magical- as soon as I internalized Mazovian Economics, I just went full hog on saying communist things for experience (and otherwise being the most agreeable or silly.) Knowing that you can fail to build communism really helps build the world.

[@AnndraADunn]

The successes in the meeting (formulating the question and building the tower) end up being really interesting and powerful and emotional but the failed question is interesting in its own way too. I hadn't seen that whole thing about Dobreva and Abadanaiz before!

[@gimpscam9976]

Whenever I say interesting, I usually mean that it peaks my interest a little. My go to whenever I don’t have much to say is “fair enough.”

[@meganc60]

I'm glad you did the rest of the communism quest in one night, because you actually cannot open the door again after pursuing Ruby (as I discovered in my own game after reading the book in the daytime and trying to come back to the door at night a few days post-Ruby). I didn't even know keeping the tower up was possible, but this made me look it up and apparently it is possible if you have said 30 communist things. Also I've never seen that rhetoric failure. What a painful one. The successful check is interesting and feels pretty special though, I recommend looking it up if you have time.

[@thirdcoinedge]

"I guess you could say we believe [in communism] *because* it's impossible. It's our way of saying we refuse to accept that the world has to remain... like this..."

[@yvngdashdance656]

Damn, missing that rhetoric check at the end and the tower is a bummer. I like how the game handled it though, and it shows that these characters are caring individuals. If you get a chance maybe look up what happens if the tower holds and you pass the check - it's one of the most sincere moments in the game and you can really tell that the writers have a deep love for revolutionary politics. "In the dark times, should the stars also go out?"

[@JordanFromJersey]

I don’t know what typeface the theory book is in, but I can guarantee you it isn’t comic sans. The “sans” in comic sans refers to “sans (ie. “lacking/without”) serif” and that typeface was specifically listed as a serif font. This concludes my presentation on “pretty much literally everything I know about typefaces put into one poorly written sentence”. Thank you for your time. :P

[@TV-8-301]

The most unrealistic part that kinda breaks suspension of disbelief for me is when the underground communists speak to the police *at all*

[@bradleypeate3266]

I'm think there's a word for it when a man refers to someone else as a he or a women refers to some one as a her when not knowing it and making a natural assumption in that direction 🤔

[@helioobianchi]

1:25:50 npcs having a check failure

[@filo5524]

57:40 you absolutely butchered all of it and it was beautiful, caro mio ;)

[@bradleypeate3266]

I wonder if the ghost of mazof would of helped 😄

[@NgaMarsters]

Although you didn't succed the Check for the vision quest it was still a blast to see you react to it. And even I've never seen what happens if you fail- I never even got given the option to build the tower. When the games over do you see yourself playing the other ones? and recording those parts?

[@thecrimsonviscount5689]

Alright, let's talk about *beans*

[@bradleypeate3266]

Ouch that red check failure 🤐

[@mememaster5748]

Loving this playthrough. Have you considered doing a VTM: Bloodlines let's play? I think it would suit the channel very well.

[@CDexie]

Masculine pronouns are generally considered more generic for situations where you don't know someone's gender, even if *they* exist. That's why VisCalc was assuming the sniper was a man

[@bradleypeate3266]

Its interesting seeing this communist path I've only seen the moralist one 😁

[@Tome281]

:)

[@bcbdarts]

About the gender of the sniper: Only recently has they/them/their become an accepted usage for an unknown person. Before this, 'He' was the default pronoun, in the same way that 'mankind' refers to all humans and not just males. So the usage is appropriate for this kind of retro-modern time period.

[@Liliputian07]

this is not true. he as a gender-neutral pronoun was part of a deliberate francocization effort in the 19th century. before then, "they" was frequently used. the earliest usage of "they" as gender-neutral is the 14th century

[@akshayhere]

this is absolutely false. they has been used for a long time for this

[@mexicanhalloween]

It's always interesting to see how much people come to hate Evrart based on smears by the bourgeois yacht woman and Evrart's sardonic treatment of pigs, who he knows are the superstructural enforcers of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. It's clear that Evrart can see through all the idealist bullshit using dialectical and historical materialism. He's literally seizing the means of production from the bourgeoisie to improve the material conditions of the working class, but no, he's the bad guy because he treated the wholesome 💯 copperinos poorly and the parasite who hired mercenaries to murder/rape their way through the union politely told some nice stories in her pleasant diction. This is definitely the most cleverly written game of all time.

[@CraigNull]

It's not just Joyce. Kim calls the union an organized crime syndicate and Evrart openly gloats about getting into drug trafficking

[@dalmaskadeadtrash3592]

I mean, Evrart is very manipulative and almost never adresses what his actual goal is while using you anyway, Joyce is mostly transparent about what she says (at least seems that way) hence, easier to trust her.

[@LMarti13]

I have no idea if this is tongue-in-cheek but if not this is completely missing the point of Evrart. He's corrupt AF and has zero interest in anything outside his own wealth and power. He literally takes the means of production for himself, not for the working class. The game is very obviously commenting on how capitalism sucks unions dry to the point that they become corrupt, like what happened in the US decades ago and we're still trying to recover from. Evrart is not a socialist he's just cosplaying as one to gain power. You literally don't meet a single communist until the very end of the game which makes you realize, "ohhhhhh everyone else was just playing at socialism under the boot-heel of capital."

[@mexicanhalloween]

​@@LMarti13 "He's corrupt AF" lol, exactly as Joyce tells you about him, why do you believe her? Corruption implies he's going against the the wishes of the union members he represents. Do you encounter anyone in the union who wants him gone? "and has zero interest in anything outside his own wealth and power." What evidence is there for this? Does he ever mention wanting wealth for himself? He lives in a fucking container at his job, he owns a desk, a couple of chairs and a fish clock, like what the fuck are you talking about? You can ask him if he's going to build a statue of himself and he says no, his monument will be the great lives union members will have. Why would a greedy power-hungry person protect from bullying and employ Easy Leo his entire life? Why would a greedy power-hungry person make up a fake job in order to pay to keep an elderly royalist from dying in the streets? Why would a greedy power-hungry person work to build infrastructure and housing for the working class? If Evrart only wanted money and power he could just get paid to do whatever the bourgeoisie wants to reduce the union's power like the previous forewoman, but he had her killed for being a traitor to the working class. "He literally takes the means of production for himself, not for the working class. " [citation needed] "The game is very obviously commenting on how capitalism sucks unions dry to the point that they become corrupt, like what happened in the US decades ago" What happened in the US is the unions made an arrangement against internationalism to become the labor aristocracy and then got infiltrated or murdered into toothlessness while also defanged by Taft-Hartley. "Evrart is not a socialist he's just cosplaying as one to gain power." [citation needed] "You literally don't meet a single communist until the very end of the game which makes you realize, 'ohhhhhh everyone else was just playing at socialism under the boot-heel of capital.' " Dros hates the Claires because Edgar lied to him about the revolutionary potential of Martinaise 20 years ago, which is completely understandable. Syndicalism does not usually intend to tear down the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and is usually social fascist, so Dros is right in that the union will probably not bring back the ICM, so you're right, unlikely to result in actual socialism, however, this time the union isn't just playing hardball as a negotiating tactic, they're not negotiating at all and how the armies of reaction respond could bring back girl child revolution.

[@dalmaskadeadtrash3592]

@@mexicanhalloween He's isn't all that good, really. While the murder of his predecessor may be his biggest dark secret, he doesn't do all those good things because he cares, but only to keep his position in power - pleasing the masses so to speak. He doesn't care about actual people, like the minority in the village where he wants you to sign stuff to demolish their personal lives and is trying to lie to you about it till the very end. As long as majority supports his decisions, he might as well send everyone else into exile. I mean, he tries to be "likeable" and straight-forward about the fact that he lies and uses you but it doesn't really come across as genuine. Throughtout the entire game I don't think there is even one example of him saying something without moderating himself. either joking, pretending to be joking, using complex methaphores or being over-the-top sarcastic and nonchalant... It is genius writing, but he's not a "good guy after all" kinda deal. Clearly he's saying all those things to avoid losing his position because he fears that everything he says could be used against him and is trying to keep it as vague as possible so he cannot be quoted or recorded. Seems like he has his speech trained to perfection too, fake confidence and all. Very smart, but yeah, nothing good or genuine about that guy.

[@Hmon160]

watching you take The Pigs as a joke character and laughing at her was annoying dude, genuinely one of the more tragic and sad characters in the game

[@Mapocolops]

yeah except you don't know she's tragic and sad until after so have some perspective dude

[@milanstefanovic3130]

I am glad I never did communist quest, in any of my plazthrough. Not knowing why communist theory is bad, in every single possible way, is the worst thing with creators of thisgame. Also, for ultra-liberal quest, they needed to learn something about Austrian school of economics, who destroys communistic economy=ic theory in every way of the term.

[@akshayhere]

The moralist has entered the chat. I'm sensing you don't know how theory differs from what I guarantee will be your critique. Also, The Austrian School is generally considered to be an economic "heresy"- that is to say that it's generally not accepted by any academic economists. The biggest reason behind this fact is that the Austrian school rarely, if ever, attempts to mathematically model or empirically prove their hypotheses. The Austrian School approaches most macroeconomic problems as a giant, unmeasurable mix of constantly changing microeconomic inputs, and therefore is as unpredictable as the weather. This is ironic because the weather is, famously, somewhat reliably predictable. If you have friends who support the Austrian School it is unlikely you will be able to use evidence or arguments to get them out because they didn't use evidence or arguments to get in.