Findlay Oh Library is enforcing an unlawful policy

The Findlay Hancock County Library has 2 unconstitutional bullet points listed in the Code of Conduct Policy. This made my visit to the facility less than ideal due to security trying to enforce an unlawful policy. They felt the need to be my babysitter while I was in the building. There seems to be an understanding of the law to a degree but still doing a back and forth between that and the unlawful policy.
The policy can be seen at the following address.
findlaylibrary...
I have sent an email (shown in the last minutes of the video) to the following employees.
Director, Sarah Clevidence 419-434-1479 [e-mail]
Assistant Director, Joel Mantey 419-434-1474 [e-mail]
Community Relations, Heather Rhoads [e-mail]
Media Services, Lynnette Coppler [e-mail]
Security Services Department, Mike Martien [e-mail]
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Doing this is fairly expensive. The farther I go the more it cost. Also, legal counsel will be required in some instances. As you know it isn't cheap.
Any help with traveling and other cost that comes with educating others of our rights and helping to preserve those rights is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for any and all support.

[@jason43324]

The policy contains 2 points that are illegal. The photo section is 1. But they also state that can search anyone. The policy link is in the description.

[@troyevitt2437]

The search policy is largely due to all of the mass-casualty shootings we see in the news every week. Public Safety trumps individual rights. Oh, boo hoo. You probably argued about masks before the Covid19 vaccines came out too, right? Real civic-minded, pal. As to filming, you have to touch bases with the administration and arrange a time to come in and get some B-roll footage. Not an issue. A library isn't a Traditional Public Forum; Libraries are typically Limited Public Fora.

[@Tater_Salad]

Love how they twist the truth. I have recorded in that library and so has CRA Audits. They think that policy is law. Unless you have signed up for that libraries library card, the policy they preach about does not apply to you. Also about the kids, yes it is frowned apon, and I try to avoid recording children, but if someone wanted to they could record them all damn day. You just might get your ass beat by a group of parents if you did. All in all, good job Stand Up Press

[@troyevitt2437]

@@Tater_Salad The policy applies regardless of whether you have a library card or not. You walk through that door, the policy applies to you. Don't like it, stay out of the Library. Simple stuff.

[@jtjones4081]

Listen you desperate for attention pathetic little man; that Library employee is exactly right in his recitation of Supreme Court rulings regarding Limited Public Forums. Get a real job, loser. You're exposing yourself as a Duncecap for all to laugh at. Policies in Limited Public Forums are enforced through trespass.

[@jtjones4081]

@@Tater_Salad You're stupid and ignorant of the law.

[@Truthseaaker]

Limited public forums, such as municipal meeting rooms, are nonpublic forums that have been specifically designated by the government as open to certain groups or topics. Traditional public forums CANNOT be changed to nonpublic forums by governments.

[@lasalleman6792]

But a library IS a limited public forum, which means that management can set up reasonable rules for the operation of the facility.

[@jerrybushman]

Limited public forums can only restrict activity that disrupts the purpose of the venue under time, place and manner. If a camera could disrupt, then they would not be allowed to have their cameras either

[@robertreilly8982]

Yeah security cameras don't create conflict to put up on You Tube

[@jerrybushman]

@@robertreilly8982 But they can, as we can get that footage and we can then post it on YT. Not to mention, the camera is not creating the conflict, it is the ignorance about our right to record

[@robertreilly8982]

@@jerrybushman People go to library to read, learn, get a little peace. Not to have some scumbag frauditor creating conflict for clicks and views on KZbin

[@robertreilly8982]

@@jerrybushman Not only that anyone filmed without their consent can take it down from You Tube with a privacy strike. There's no 1st amendment on You Tube.

[@jerrybushman]

@@robertreilly8982 The only problem people have about being recorded in public, is they think it is illegal. They think they have privacy in public. The only privacy that is protected in law at the library, is their personal information they give to the librarians. Ther face is not private information. There presence in the library is not a secret. Nothing you do once you leave a private space is subject to be on camera. The only reason the library can record us is it is protected by the 1st amendment and we can request and receive their camera footage as it is all public footage. The term "frauditor" makes no sense as the audit was performed on camera, it was disseminated to the public and you watched it

[@digitalbookworm5678]

About 8 years ago they let me do some recording before they opened. I asked the library director. It was a 10 minute monolog that I ended up deleting anyway.

[@leonunlimited7552]

It would be the same at a public hospital. They show you information it's not your fault, it's theirs.

[@robertreilly8982]

Lmao...of course hospitals and libraries can craft policies to prevent filming.

[@DirtyPlumbus]

Security guard is convinced the law doesn't apply to him. He believes he's only responsible for following policy. He's mistaken, and highly likely to learn so through a massive lawsuit.

[@robertreilly8982]

Lmao.... mAsSive LAwSuIT!

[@Meatball2022]

@@robertreilly8982yea. It’s funny how many of these auditors are just days away from their massive lawsuits. Any minute now, that massive check will be written. Meanwhile, all these massive lawsuits and frauditors still look like homeless people, driving 25 year old cars, and live in basements with their parents, begging for donations from rubes like the guy that started this comment string.

[@taipan2345]

ha ha ha law suit not likely

[@sommerc4633]

I'm sorry, what's the purpose here? What's your goal or point to prove?

[@leonunlimited7552]

When he mentioned the children's section, I would have said, "Are there children in it right now?" If he said "Yes." I would say " OK, I have no interest in it then." If he said "No." Then I'd do a walk by, show some books.. the little table and chairs... and walked on.

[@robertreilly8982]

So you go filming libraries to see if there are children there. Pervect

[@leonunlimited7552]

Detard.

[@vincearmstrong5654]

As a security agent, it's incumbent on you to know, and follow the law. Years ago I started security as a bar bouncer. Even at that level I took it upon myself to go speak to cops (bad idea. They know dick), and the local Commonwealth attorney about laws pertaining to my job. I learned a lot that was in opposition to what I and most everyone thinks. I went on to be trained by DCJS and worked at higher levels of security as a close protection professional. You can't just blindly enforce your employer's policies if they aren't in line with the law. CANNOT.

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Public constitution says I can

[@vincearmstrong5654]

@@michaelwillcutt2619 dafuq is a public constitution? A professional would follow law and Constitution in carrying out their duties. A professional would do their due diligence, like I did, in seeking out the information to do their jobs in a lawful manner.

[@Meatball2022]

Policy enforcement in a limited public forum is permitted as per court rulings. Period. So yes - they can enforce policy. Because it’s not being blindly enforced. 2 minutes into this video it’s obvious the security guard knows exactly what he can do.

[@taipan2345]

it is a government policy and aq nation wide policy

[@anthonytrevon865]

He's right though some federal courts have labeled libraries limited public forums. Which means public libraries have some discretion to reasonably restrict the exercise free speech rights in their buildings. Especially to the extent the conduct in question is disruptive to the other patrons or inconsistent with the libraries fundamental mission

[@jeffreycole2816]

You are correct but just recording is never disruptive.

[@Tater_Salad]

And protesting Anthony.

[@nder]

@@jeffreycole2816 Library manager here, and you're right, 'just' recording public areas is not disruptive in and of itself. Where some of our auditor friends get it wrong is thinking that exercising a 1st Amendment-protected activity means that everything else they do while exercising that activity has the same level of protection. It does not. You're not getting kicked out of the library for 'just recording', you're getting kicked out of the library for standing in front of the self-check machine and refusing to move so people can use it, for directing personal insults at staff and other library users, for wandering into the workroom and arguing with staff that the 'employees only' sign is unenforceable because it doesn't cite a specific state law, etc., etc., etc. The fact that you're filming while violating legitimate building rules is irrelevant. Come back and see us tomorrow, we look forward to your exciting lawsuit.

[@brucegordon4992]

Since it is an unlawful policy seems you should go to court and get an injunction ordering them to follow the law.

[@nicholasrhoden9828]

There is no limit to how these clowns attempt to twist the definition of words and court cases. Limited public forum has absolutely zero to do with recording people without their permission.

[@avraamkalaitzogloy285]

MR NICK THE YOYO:WE LOVE YOU MAN

[@taipan2345]

they make the rules he has to comply

[@jgmartin307]

The visit this guard referred to was 5 months ago by Michigan Constitutional Crusader and CRA Audits. Everything this guy said to you was a lie.

[@craaudits8662]

I agree he totally lied this will help my lawsuit

[@holaday]

Library policy is for employees of the library to follow. Ask then to show you when you started your employment by the library. Patrons have to follow the LAW.

[@nder]

So all those 'no running, no horseplay' signs at the public pool only apply to the... lifeguards, then. Cool cool

[@taipan2345]

get educated

[@capngloval]

Again we have a bunch of idiots who don't get it. We, the citizens, never have to obey policy, ever. We obey law only. Learn it.

[@s.adams1234]

I would suggest learning it then. The Supreme Court has already decided that 1a auditors are not press and filming in limited public forums is speech. Speech can be restricted in limited public forums. The security guard was 100% correct that their policy is upheld by case law.

[@leonunlimited7552]

He doesn't know what a limited public forum is.

[@wizard4401]

Consistently good content. Keep it up!

[@avraamkalaitzogloy285]

WIZARD OF STYPID:GO SUCK A TOMATO

[@leonunlimited7552]

If they show a camera personal information and you publish it THEY are liable. Private information is to stay private.

[@40daydreamer77]

Man, you're so worked up about it you had to post several comments, aye? 😆

[@tomryan8600]

NEXT TIME GO WITH ONE OR TWO OTHERS SO GOON CANT TRACK YOU ALL======== AND THE EMAIL IS BRILLIANT, SETTING OUT FOR THEM THE REALITIES OF LIFE AND GIVING THEM THE LIST OF CASE LAW IS PUTTING THEM ON NOTICE TO BACK TO HELL OFF======

[@sarahandy1907]

I didn't like that just because the last guy who went there with a camera did some shady stuff, so now the security is treating everyone else like they're doing something perverted, even though you didn't actually do anything to suggest that you were doing the same thing other than the fact that you were filming in there. The directives he gave made me think that his issue was much more than him being worried that you were gonna try to film the kids! But the fact that he didn't put up more of a stink about you filming the employees, makes me think that he really knew you were allowed to, but he just didn't agree with it and he knew he couldn't do a thing about it! It really grossed me out and make me feel really uncomfortable how much he kept bringing up the kids and trying to make it sound like you were doing something inappropriate, it was like he was obsessed that you were, like he maybe was trying to convince himself that you were or was possibly trying to get someone to overhear the conversation and phone the cops on you or something. Maybe the part is just me thinking the worst about ppl but that's probably because that's all i ever seam to see nowadays.

[@taipan2345]

limited public forum so it is not public

[@garryquiggins8183]

You would think that librarians would have heard of the 1st Amendment. It should be in at least one book there. Not to worry. In another 15 years all libraries will be shuttered. The taxpayers funding these havens for Darens and Karen's will realize that the internet has made them as obsolete as horse and buggy.

[@jhough57]

So your telling me your not trying to start anything or "cause problems" but from the way the guy filming entered the building would tell me he does not know the library as in never been there. That being said going to a place to try and press their "policies" is "looking" for trouble or instigating...

[@dennislutz8497]

You do know that once you profit from video or picture, that then becomes commercial

[@leonunlimited7552]

Policy is for employees. There are penalties for breaking policy, like being reprimanded, or fired..

[@troyevitt2437]

If the policy wasn't for the public, it wouldn't be brought to the public's attention. If somebody brings something to YOUR attention, an incumbency has been created upon YOU. Sorry rules are hard. Stay in your safe space.

[@nder]

So all those 'No running, No horseplay' signs at the public pool apply only to the... lifeguards, then. Cool cool

[@taipan2345]

not one library employee has ever been rmoved or spoken to for upholding their policy

[@JeffBolen]

Limited public forum means it limited by time place and manner. That’s it

[@T2Darlantan]

Limited public forums apply to free speech, it has nothing to do with free press

[@s.adams1234]

The Supreme Court has already decided 1a auditors aren't press and filming is speech. So, nice try.

[@MadMax-pt3yk]

Listening to this Security Guard is making me sick! He knows he doesn't have any authority. But he's doing his best to manipulate. Why didn't this Auditor tell this Clown (SG) to back off. He (SG) needs to be shutdown!!!!!!! My hats off to you guys (Auditor's). I don't have the self control to speak calmly when people assert themselves with policy over law.

[@acclaimedhousecleaning7555]

There is no expectation of privacy in public!

[@bluevon5021]

If there is no expectation of privacy in public, how can Limited Public Forums restrict the 1A subject to TPM backed up by plenty of case law? How can I submit a privacy strike at KZbin forcing you to blur out my image and likeness or take down the video completely? A frauditor in MN had to shut down his channel and frauditing career because a cop he featured in his videos filed a harassment restraining order against him. There's a frauditor in MO who is still in jail for violating a restraining order filed by a public employee in his local municipality whom he featured in his video. How is that all possible if there's no expectation of privacy in public? Because THERE IS AN EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY IN PUBLIC.

[@taipan2345]

in a library there is

[@stevemears3619]

That policy quotes "commercial purposes" !!! That's the bottom line !!

[@taipan2345]

no it is not the key words are limited public forum

[@MrNucEngineer]

Time, place, and manner restrictions apply to freedom of speech, not to freedom of press.

[@grumble_one]

He keeps blurting out limited public forum like that's a magic word. It's limited for the purposes of 1st amendment protesting NOT press. As long as you observe time place and manner it's ok. Stupid idiots. They shouldn't be sharing private information in public.

[@brianbates1873]

This library guardian does a perfect job of deflating the frauditor. The phoney is trying so hard to start a confrontation and he keeps snuffing out the fire. How do frauditors sleep at night knowing they are harassing people using their public libraries? Constitutional activists who going to end up causing more laws and restrictions. Get a real job instead of causing confrontation for profit

[@stevebennett4959]

Dude…. It’s “devices” not “devises.” Also, it’s FOIA not FOYA. If this is for education, then learn your stuff.

[@ytaaccount]

Steve Bennet about spellong and gramma steve has to clamma those a's in fith grade will not ceese to fade...

[@janinemorgan3502]

This protector of the library needs to be heavily educated.

[@camo22]

Actually he was way more educated that a lot of other security guards I’ve seen in these situations. He understands that a library is a limited public forum, he understands what that means legally in the courts and was very realistic in giving the auditor a chance to film what he was legally allowed to film. Well done to this security man!

[@buckeyeauditingtransparenc9694]

Ohio doesn't like transparency

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Everyone in public is open season to film . Employees required to protect that information not me

[@dangingras7]

Man oh man! That poor guy is full of dung!! No privacy in a public place!!

[@johnjoseph1687]

They have the right to ask you to leave. 😭

[@craaudits8662]

I just seen this video been under the weather for about a week. The security guard totally lied to you in this video,this will probably help my lawsuit against the city of Findlay

[@avraamkalaitzogloy285]

WHY THW CAMERA GUY IS BOTHERING TO BEGIN WITH?IS HE MENTALLY SICK?

[@retcutter10]

Suing for what? What damages were done? That's always the battle cry of you lens-licking groupies who know absolutely nothing about reality. "SUE 'EM!"

[@s.adams1234]

Nope. The security guard is 100% correct. It has already been decided by the Supreme Court that you're not press and filming in limited public forums is speech. Which means you're filming for commercial purposes.

[@tonyantoniomacedo5887]

YOU NEED TO LEARN MORE, WATCH OTHER AUDITORS. YOU ARE TRYING TO BE TOOOO NICE. STATE THE FACTS. THE SECURITY WAS CONTROLLING YOU

[@smolderingsheep]

That's Right Tony...he is doing it all wrong! He needs to watch your civil rights audit videos...Oh, Wait. You don't have any do you, Tony. instead of giving advice and armchair quarterbacking, why don't you get out there and put your freedom & safety on the line like he is in his audits? SHOW US HOW IT IS DONE

[@butch1508]

@@smolderingsheep Exactly

[@ytaaccount]

@@smolderingsheep hmm i wonder if there are things people dont do; but are more than capable of critiquing. guess there isnt any. and ss has never ever never ever done such a thing... now have you, because that would make a person that did that, and then complained about someone else doing it, a hypocrite; and none of us are that. are we

[@williamball3236]

Lawsuit is the only way to fix stupidity.

[@taipan2345]

can't bring a lawwsuit as it has already been determined by the supreme courts

[@michellecadogan4321]

That security put you in the place you deserve..the trash.

[@retcutter10]

This letter is nothing but misinformed crap. That 2018 DHS Memo only applies to FEDERAL agencies and buildings. The 41 CFR you quoted, while correct, is clause (c), which pertains to recording for NONCOMMERCIAL news purposes. Since this video is being seen on You Tube, right now, it is being used for COMMERCIAL ends. Which you need permission for. That doesn't matter, anyway, because the library is a COUNTY building, not Federal. And, yes, as per the 10th amendment, the state can make some of its own laws.

[@chaskott3]

You need to watch Long Island Audit

[@kevinjackson4464]

Nice try Mr. Limited Public Forum, Time - When open to the public, Place - Public areas, Manner - Legal behavior. The law says we can video anybody and anything in public - customers, kids, animals, criminals, private information that people are displaying in public, private activities people are doing in public, everything. Try protecting customers that want to record the people and the personal information those people want to share in public.

[@taipan2345]

prove it

[@kevinjackson4464]

Bad elevator, another public employee failure.

[@jgmartin307]

Until this guy coughs up the police report and court records, I say everything this guard said was a lie.

[@taipan2345]

well where are the cases that show that charges have been dropped

[@chasmcgregor2985]

No privacy in public

[@propertyoflisa2463]

he just keeps saying...but if they walk by.... he is just trying to push buttons.

[@bragginrightsfishing7467]

Freedom is allowed to be scary to other people. Fear doesn’t trump our freedoms

[@rogerwhited6016]

When do you break out the milk and cookies for your new found security guard friend? Once you state the law, there is no expectation of privacy in public. move on.

[@wildman1629]

Your not only a 1st Amendment guy. Your for all the Amendments... 👍 Video

[@jackrabbit1379]

Call and educate them!!!!

[@janinemorgan3502]

Priority is Constitution, then law, THEN policy.

[@taipan2345]

no not in a library

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Nobody is protected in public view

[@lindadeavers1675]

In order to "Stand Up for the Library", you need to know the law . . .

[@taipan2345]

he did know the law

[@timz.4000]

Protecting all that precious, precious personal information. They were violating your/our rights!! challenge them!!

[@jason43324]

Email has been sent to library officials. if you watched the end you can see the email. You look in the description you'll see who it was sent to.

[@s.adams1234]

@jason43324 your email is worthless. You cited cases that involved traditional public forums, not limited public forums. Any case that involves limited public forums go against your narrative. The DHS memo is for federal buildings not state or local, so it doesn't apply at a library. That security guard has read up on what limited public forums are and schooled you at every turn. He was 100% correct in his interpretation and execution. The Supreme Court has already decided 1A auditors are not press and filming in a limited public forum is deemed speech. Your speech can be restricted in a limited public forum. As the security said, you can't change the policies here. The policies have to be challenged in court. Just because others have had their case dropped, doesn't mean they won. It means the DA decided not to take the case. You or any other 1a auditor may not be so lucky next time.

[@Outzienhier]

ohio does a decent job, compared to other states. where do you think we rank.

[@aloysius1226]

Thanks so much for protecting ppls' rights by trolling a library. Totally makes sense. 1.4k subs after 11 years on youtube. That also totally makes sense.

[@msbrightside181]

I want to give you a big THANK YOU for showing us the wall of notices and posters about upcoming library events!! Lol. That's what you were going for, right??? That guard made you look like the fool you are.

[@dopeytripod]

terrible attitude of that guard & employee

[@taipan2345]

you are commercial as you are paid by youtube so you can't film

[@RichardMillerMMVVIDEO]

it was a fail letting him telling where and what to shoot, should have said that is against the law your are stalking me, the security guy was useless

[@Ozgran42]

This library needs to be visited by an auditor who knows his/her stuff and doesn’t let themselves be bossed around by security in this way. Nothing was learned.

[@butch1508]

We will be waiting for your video.

[@jason43324]

I wasn't bossed around. Never turned the camera off. You can educate and make a difference being respectful. The policy is being addressed. I'm sure that others will be calling and sending emails as well to express the unlawfulness of it as well. If you feel someone has to be a jerk or manage to get the police called and arrested to afflict change. Then by all means be our guest.

[@bunnyfinn2]

Frauditors need to leave libraries, kids and families alone

[@butch1508]

@@bunnyfinn2 And bootlickin pole smokers can shut up too!

[@bunnyfinn2]

@@butch1508 if I see one I’ll relay your message, fool

[@leonunlimited7552]

Publish a cops laptop and the cop could get fired.

[@troyevitt2437]

Okay, so you have to touch bases with the administration and arrange a time to come in and get some B-roll footage. Not an issue. A library isn't a Traditional Public Forum; Libraries are typically Limited Public Fora.

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

He going after education for stupidity . You have no say

[@globyois]

So, the security guard is VIOLATING A CITIZEN’S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS by harassing him while he is exercising his Constitutional rights by constantly following him around.

[@JeffBolen]

I wouldn’t have talked to him

[@yorickwestendorp1521]

so guessing 90% off americans dont know the rights the have 😅😓

[@butch1508]

Exactly

[@timz.4000]

why are you agreeing with this guard guy? You let him buddy buddy you with all his wrong information. go back!

[@globyois]

That library security guy has a self-aggrandizing god complex. “I’m here to protect the people.” Yeah, your FIRST OBLIGATION, Mr. Security Guy, is to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION! Seems your ego has caused a bit of mental block in that area.

[@taipan2345]

library police follows limited public forum rules which over rides the constitution

[@globyois]

@@taipan2345 Ridiculous, isn’t it?

[@santiagor1970]

Sent Them a link to your channel and how to flag the video. I feel like they should know what is being posted and be allowed to have a say if they agree with you views. It is their rights to be put on KZbin or not.

[@Gregory-qo2tp]

GET A JOB AND QUIT BUGGING PEOPLE AT THEIR WORKPLACE!!!!

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Your policy violates federal rights

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Your policy isn’t lawful

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

Ignore this guy he’s BS ing you

[@michaelwillcutt2619]

You have no authority

[@thepreparedchristian3147]

Guard was correct...he did a great job and was polite and courteous... you also did a fairly good job but lied twice when you said you would blur the faces of patrons that didn't talk to you

[@chasmcgregor2985]

So they’ve already violated a citizens rights. If that was you SUE.😂😂👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@Outzienhier]

ew gross dude thinks kids are flattering?

[@markbailey2199]

I always amazed at knuckleheads like this guy after knowing what’s going on thinking he can make things different.

[@lasalleman6792]

You want to give us the case citation that says what they are doing is "unlawful?" Looks to me like just another KZbin antagonizer/frauditor who thinks he can go into a public building and do what he wants, and management can't do anything about it. Wrong!

[@roncartwright958]

The man did not understand and did not want to!!!

[@vincearmstrong5654]

Just saw the part concerning the elevators' inspections. As security, it's also part of the training to alert management about physical safety issues. If you have a '99' or '11' number, assigned by DCJS after your certification to perform security, you're required to know this. Another clown pretending to be a security professional.

[@robertthompson4038]

Not very flattering pictures of kids in a library? 🤣🤣🤣😂😂

[@mid-ohioguardian6927]

"Our policy has been upheld" where .? If it was in the courts it would be law 📸🎥📸🎥📸🎥📸

[@taipan2345]

it is law it has gone through the supreme court

[@locotv8253]

Protect people from a camera , lol

[@dennislutz8497]

com·mer·cial /kəˈmərSHəl/ adjective 1. concerned with or engaged in commerce: "a commercial agreement" Similar trade, trading, business, private enterprise, mercantile, ... more 2. making or intended to make a profit: "commercial products" Similar profit-oriented, money-oriented, commercialized, materialistic, mercenary Opposite non-profit-making

[@thepreparedchristian3147]

olc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/First-Amendment-Audits-Bulletin.pdf In most cases the law allows libraries to limit photo's and video of staff and patrons...