Fine, Let’s Do What JD Vance Wants: Talk About Immigration

Donald Trump and JD Vance have sparked panic over immigration in Springfield, Ohio. This week, the hosts talk about why our country’s immigration debate is now focused on a distraction instead of the core of the issue.
Plus, Ross is hot and cold about a particular pet obsession.
(A full transcript of this episode will be available within 24 hours of publication on the Times website.)
Recommended in this episode:
• "Trump Has Crossed a Truly Unacceptable Line (www.nytimes.co...) " by Lydia Polgreen
• "What JD Vance Believes (www.nytimes.co...) " by Ross Douthat
• “How the Trump Campaign Ran With Rumors About Pet-Eating Migrants - After Being Told They Weren’t True (www.wsj.com/us...) ” by Kris Maher, Valerie Bauerlein and Tawnell D. Hobbs in The Wall Street Journal
• The Real ‘Border Czar’ Defends the Biden-Harris Record (www.nytimes.co...) , “The Ezra Klein Show”
• “Go West (thebaffler.com...) ” by Lily Lynch in The Baffler
• “Melting Pot or Civil War? A Son of Immigrants Makes the Case Against Open Borders (www.penguinran...) ” by Reihan Salam
• “Chimp Crazy (www.hbo.com/ch...) " on HBO
Thoughts about the show? Email us at [e-mail] or leave a voicemail at [phone].

[@shannonparkhill5557]

They asked for immigrants, they expected immigrants, they got immigrants. So any "strain" on public services is not caused by immigrants, but by bad public policy failing to deal with the city growth they asked for and were expecting.

[@cassandratq9301]

Pointing to "Biden's reckless policy of its first year in office" is especially rich since the Haitians in Springfield settled there under the TPS that TRUMP Administration provided in 2018.

[@mitchellscheer677]

Completely ignoring the fact at hand… lmao

[@thenaiam]

A couple of the hosts touched on this briefly, but the issue in Springfield (and also as noted, by extension, the rest of the country) is fundamentally tied to affordable housing and the funding (or the inadequate levels) of social services like schools and healthcare. Generally, conservatives have fought against these as well, again choosing to not be part of the solution, and instead cynically using the dysfunction for their campaign strategy.

[@mitchellscheer677]

Democrats are largely responsible for the housing crisis; and have certainly played a helping hand in failing education policy. Not to mention that just avoids the fact that a population increase being faster than infrastructure can keep up with is destined to cause problems regardless of your policies. It’s a set of long term policies and decisions, that can’t respond to short term issues.

[@andreaam805]

Thank you for a real non biased conversation regarding this issue. Most Americans are tired of extremism and just want real practical and effective solutions that lead to the prosperity of us all. We need to compromise and find a middle ground. Thank you NYT!!

[@longshank59]

Not being a Historian but being a very well read person what most people don't know or remember is Haitian soldiers and sailors helped making tbe U.S.A. the United States. They fought alongside us to defeat Britain. Just stating facts that is well documented. But after the Revolution they White Men in aurhority said Thank You and sent them back to Haiti. Because in what they didn't want Free Black People to stay here and influence enslaved Black People and have a revolt against Slave Owners.

[@BennettJohnson-pj4jf]

While I always appreciate all perspectives here, I think something else is important to note: the COVID and post-COVID effect on global migration. I don’t think it’s fair to lay all of the blame at Biden’s feet (much like it’s not fair to lay inflation at his feet).

[@danschmehl7824]

The emergency covid measures, Title 42, starting under trump and ending under Biden is a huge change. We went almost 2 years with NO immigration, legal or otherwise. Of course we're going to see a huge surge. If the GOP wants to criticize ending title 42 covid measure go ahead but that backlog is why we're seeing such a big increase, not anything Biden did or didn't do past that. To increase capacity to process them, we needed more budget and personnel and they resisted any effort to do that and killed their own bill when the Democrats finally threw in the towel on dreamers and agreed to pass it. All because Trump wanted to campaign on a chaotic border. It's ridiculous that they think this is a winning issue for them.

[@charlesbonnet8057]

Another aspect you could have touched on is the misery that Vance is causing towards the immigrants. His false rhetoric and lies lead directly to insults, mistreatment, bomb threats - he's a direct cause of harm to these people already, and we can only hope it doesn't turn into worse outcomes.

[@sausy_boi667]

How can Ross Douthat continue to carry water for Vance after everything this campeign has done, not to mention Trump himself?

[@miguelvelez7221]

His head is thoroughly up his ass. The leadership at the Times has to understand, their aging readership base is going away day by day, and continued publishing of Brooks and Douthat and Died ECT. is driving away any chance the under 55 can trust them as "The Paper Of Record". There's too many other choices vying for our money. Change or die NYT.

[@igit_7296]

Ross is Catholic.

[@titanman33]

I think he directionally agrees with MAGA. Just not as extreme. He's a few grievances from being Tucker Carlson 15 years from now.

[@AmiriAbuJamal]

@@sausy_boi667 it makes him feel like a real American lol

[@the_derpler]

Thousands and thousands have just been dumped non democratically into a small town with almost no means to handle it. Of course there’s backlash.

[@charlesbonnet8057]

non-democratically? The TPS was passed under Trump and the immigrants (mostly) arrived under Biden. Both the last two Presidents led to this. Also, immigrants aren't "assigned" a state or a town to go settle in. Some go there, find a nice life, and their social network spreads this info to other immigrants. We don't have laws to force immigrants to live somewhere, its a social solution.

[@omurtasar7852]

An estimated 73% of agriculture workers today were born outside of the United States. What would happen to food prices if we didn't have them??? Supporting Vance, Trump arguments are simply irresponsible.

[@jeremywilkes322]

I wonder how long mass deportations will last when the hotel, ag, and restaurant industries start to collapse.

[@cjmillington]

Ross Douthat is an intellectual lightweight.

[@seanvalentine4198]

Ross is such a Heel

[@evelynnapier8994]

Thank you for this thoughtful podcast by Ross and Carlos. I appreciate your consideration of multiple sides to this issue. Lydia continues with the progressive word salad spoken in exaggerated upspeak. I agree with her that immigration is central to America and is a positive thing. But Ross and Carlos present the arguments in a way that is easily understood and convincing.

[@omurtasar7852]

I am having a hard time to listen to Carlos, he simply fails to see the bigger picture!! That's sad.

[@celestejohns681]

Thank you for making that distinction about Vance’s “confession.” I am not voting for Trump-Vance but twisting words of any candidate is not helpful.

[@haraldfuchs8196]

Yes, he didn't confess but since one of his staffers has checked with the mayor's office and has been informed that the story wasn't true we can safely assume that he knew that he was lying! He just doesn't care.

[@celestejohns681]

@@haraldfuchs8196 I agree!

[@celestejohns681]

I wish we could get to the place where we had genuine compassion for the plight of immigrants. They would not be coming here if conditions in their own countries were favorable. Much of which is due to US policies.

[@Slurmski89]

I don’t think he “confessed.” He accidentally told the truth.

[@rebeccabrockway8258]

"Miss Sassy" is the lost cat's name.

[@frederickrose3967]

Why do you have a Ross Asshat on what would, otherwise, be a reasonable podcast???

[@ryno4ever433]

Racism

[@matthewmannion4227]

Absolutely!

[@cassandratq9301]

Politicized racism.

[@omurtasar7852]

Carlos, do you at all look at the economic impact of immigrants, especially in Springfiled? Or are you just making an intellectual argument??

[@AmiriAbuJamal]

I think all these people need to work in a sweatshop factory for about six months and then come back and talk

[@omurtasar7852]

the rest is not worth listening to....

[@andreaam805]

you can just listen to the whole thing and process it before just vomiting words.

[@avoiceinthechoir5791]

Not interested in hearing your inside jokes and sarcastic laughter. This was a private conversation amongst friends that shouldn't be a podcast, especially from the NY Times.

[@aarondavid826]

I've got no love for trump but I am voting for him because the Harris/Biden border and immigration policies are horrendous.

[@kahlilbt]

And the human rights violations, logistical chaos and partisan throttling of progress that Trump did/will do is definitely going to improve things.

[@kimoandrews5802]

What is trump's immigration policy? How many immigrants does he say we will take? What is his border policy? He defeated the border bill that will improve the situation because he thought it would hurt his campaign.

[@methodsignature]

There are fewer immigrants coming in now than when Trump left office.

[@ExterminatorElite]

For what it is worth: Harris will probably have policy that does not quite align with yours- but Trump will have no policy, but he will have vibes. Immigration for Harris is a major thorn in her side, which means out of political necessity she will certainly be much more hawkish than Biden has been. There's a lot that could be elaborated on there, but Harris has already reoriented the Democrat position on immigration far from the progressive humanitarian 2016 message and toward hardness, toward bipartisan policymaking, and toward international diplomacy. Trump's message has stayed the same: the country is in a constant state of implosion because of migrants, other countries are weaponizing migrants against us, he might use the military. Mileage may vary, but policy tends to have lasting effects, vibes only last for a term. If you're oriented toward "we're imploding, we're imploding", maybe you go Trump. If you're oriented toward a holistic approach to reducing immigration, I think Harris is it.

[@マリー-v4p]

F

[@flyforce16]

F

[@kahlilbt]

Final fantasy

[@MaryE1219]

23:40 Ross- not just white working class.