Fireball isn't as good as you think! - BG3 3rd Level Spells Tier List

[@Sindrella.]

*slanders fireball* “yeah that’s just like, your opinion man.” *continues quicken spell casting fireball and downing the rest of my party*

[@catlover2223]

Yes, beware the Church of Fireball! We are a danger to ourselves and those around us!!

[@colemcegg3894]

I love the video but assuming you use "5 long rests" as a rule. Theres way more supplies than that in the game. Its not a reasonable restriction.

[@eternalindifference]

Hope that a TBLebowski ref ❤😂

[@konradjunemann3221]

@@colemcegg3894: It's an artificial restriction he makes voluntarily as otherwise the game would be too easy.

[@Sindrella.]

@@eternalindifference Yep! One of the best movies ever. “Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it’s an ethos!”

[@shanenicholls4351]

That's a daring title for someone standing in fireball distance. 🔥 😠 🔥

[@yall_might]

Protection From Energy should be lower. You misunderstood it's effect. It doesn't give resistance to all of those elemental damage types, it gives resistance to 1 of them, and requires concentration.

[@Jagetful]

Then is actually useless.

[@darthnihilus6211]

You can still choose the damage type, right?

[@ASmashingGentleman2]

@@darthnihilus6211Yes so it’s kinda decent if you already know what kind of damage you’re gonna take ahead of time but it still costs concentration so you’d rather cast any other concentration spell

[@jaradrichardsC137]

Yea should probably drink a potion instead

[@jadenmurray1325]

​@@ASmashingGentleman2 *groans in Death Shepherds beginning of act 2* I definitely knew their damage type.

[@hugo3627]

Important to note about Hunger of Hadar is that unlike Fog cloud and Darkness you can shoot into it. So it is extremely good for ranged attackers to shoot into with advantage.

[@magnuspotter9821]

Yeah, the fact that it doesn't break vision to enemies is so useful when used offensively. Allows you to keep peppering in spells etc. I have trivialized so many fights combining HoH with either ice surfaces or vines and stacking the movement reduction. They can't see you, can't really move and are sitting ducks to your casters and people using range.

[@horribleIRUKANDJI]

@@magnuspotter9821 does movement reduction stack?

[@EdwardMichael3]

You can also shoot an ice spell into it which changes the terrain from tough to impossible to escape

[@Oliander712]

​@@EdwardMichael3Stacking it with stinking cloud is basically torture lmao

[@flyingwhale157]

Also combine it with plant growth, you can simply forget about the enemies inside it and deal with the ones outside. In addition to those i use blackhole as a bonus action each turn, so in total they get 1/16 movement speed, get to the center each turn, take 5-10 dmg twice each turn. I used this combo on viconia, and about 6-7 people waited their death. They would dash and move 1 step and end their turns, it was hilarious

[@NeoN-PeoN]

Daylight makes a TON of monsters have disadvantage on attacks.

[@celestialwolf93]

Yup.

[@rossvolkmann1161]

The thing I think Aestus missed here is that Daylight isn't just light, it's specifically "Sunlight" as far as BG3 is concerned, which is a different thing. And there are a huge number of enemies in both the Underdark as well as Act 2 that have "Sensitivity to Sunlight" or "Hypersensitivity to Sunlight". Since you can cast it on a piece of armor, you can basically make Karlach or Lae'zel into a walking AoE debuff against everything in the Underdark until long rest.

[@VirGnar]

​​@@rossvolkmann1161just a heads up for anyone reading this that I believe they nerfed this recently. Now the enchant item version lasts 10 turns. Still great but only for typically a single battle now.

[@N1ghthavvk]

It also makes the fight against Kazador very easy. He gets Sunlight Sensitivity and loses his Gaseous Form.

[@kamilgromek9982]

So that's why he didn't turn to Gaseus form for me.

[@mikailfournea9545]

Ah sleet storm. Love that spell. Holds a special place in my heart due to the portal fight in act 2. Turned it from a terrifying hoard to a comical slip'n'slide, and it was absolutely amazing

[@HW-ow9zp]

I literally, and i mean it literally, laugh out loud every time someone slips and falls prone in this game. It's so funny to me. Plus they lose the entire turn. Its just amazingly funny to me ahahaha

[@dr.calibrations7984]

Sleet storm plus plant growth, plus spiked ground means that anyone who makes it from that side is cheating and/or mostly dead and you can just focus on the shades. Who really don't take well to a moonbeam

[@JosieJOK]

That never got old in DOS 2, and I’m enjoying it here in this game-which is fitting since I’m currently running a Frost Sorcerer!

[@thejalexander1837]

I cast spike growth and turned it into a blender

[@Qwertype315]

It seems good but i never took it, because my alert cleric starts every fight with a massive water spell, and my rogue follows up with a frost spell. So its the same thing except everyones also wet

[@MidnightBlackSC]

Sleet Storm is AMAZING for that one battle in Act 2 where you need to protect that portal that Halsin goes through. I cast it while playing co-op with friends and we were laughing the whole time.

[@kurtcobane1762]

I love Hunger of Hadar for that one to

[@ch.kv.]

I ran 2 clerics with spirit guardians around in laps with luminous orb items, ten-pin bowling!

[@johan9593]

Wall of fire is just amazing in this fight too. Ennemies just run into it and suicide 😂

[@kurtcobane1762]

@@johan9593 I agree the ai is so stupid with that spell

[@rusk3986]

Wish there were more fights like that it gives so many cool spells room to shine

[@Devchi]

Mass Healing Word, with some early itemization, allows you to heal, bless and grant resistance to physical damage to your whole party, allies and summons. A tier, definitely.

[@Hirotoro4692]

A tier WITH the build. D tier without.

[@userb1x1]

fuck yea i did a full healer shart my first playthrough with all the items and i felt invincible

[@Synthpopper]

Range sucks

[@patccmoiwoodchuck8000]

@@Synthpopper It really doesn't, I rarely have any issue hitting most if not all of my party. Certainly fine in the first 1-2 rounds of combat where you want all the buffs to apply

[@brojoe4919]

@@Hirotoro4692 It is a bonus action AoE heal that has the potential to recover a wipe. Not D tier without.

[@inerevaraskedforthis]

Another fun use of glyph of warding, is that it's actually non-hostile. So you can gather up npcs with minor Illusion, cast the lightning/ice version, wet enemies, then trigger the fight with another attack, then when the fight starts all your actions are refunded.

[@horribleIRUKANDJI]

that's clever

[@platypus547]

The best use of Feign Death is on merchants. You can Feign Death a merchant that you have made green level of happy and then steal all their stuff.

[@mungojerrie86]

The sheer mechanical depth of the game never ceased to amaze me.

[@joshuajones1721]

Also! If you have a vendor you know you will kill, like the goblin in the goblin camp or the vendors in Moonrise towers, sell them a regular pouch, put all of their items in it, kill them, and you will have all of their items drop instead of the random items if you just kill them outright. You can open the pouch in the trade screen and it does not affect their attitude towards you at all.

[@theblackspark2644]

@@joshuajones1721 That sounds insane lmao

[@jacejackson4755]

Did this not get patched?

[@icetide9411]

I remember playing Warlock for my first time and getting Hunger of Hadar and immediately falling in love. It's just got so much to love about it, to the point where it's only real downside is how massive the AoE really is, you have to be careful not messing up your own team. Not to mention that repelling blast with it is just downright EVIL and I LOVE IT

[@TacticalStrudel]

Hunger of hadar is s tier Haste is good but does not take away from longstrider IMO. You can cast longstrider on your entire party for free and lasts until long rest. That’s a lot different from action + concentration for haste. There’s no reason not to have and cast longstrider after every long rest. Even if you might cast haste during battle.

[@CritikalJari]

Blink is actually a lot worse, cause it might not require concentration but when you go to another plane of existence it breaks your concetration in all of mine experience

[@refinedorc2870]

I heard this on another tier list video and was wondering if he knew that or not

[@johnwallace5284]

it would be reaally good if you where playing solo. It would make you almost unkillable.

[@CritikalJari]

@johnwallace5284 ofcourse, however due to it just breaking concentration and it not even saying it makes it genuinely bad, why use it over any cc spell, greater invisibillity, misty step or just sanctuary idk I just dont see rhe use case

[@chipskylark5500]

​@@CritikalJarigreater invis and sanctuary also take concentration, so it's the same as "breaking concentration" except actually just more debilitating because you can still cast concentration spells , knowing they won't persist beyond 1 turn. This means you can cast the smites that take concentration, or any other concentration spell that you think will give u enough value in one turn even if the conc is broken. If you try that while concentrating on greater invis or sanct, they get cancelled. Blink won't. There's use cases for both.

[@GuiltyKit]

I don't know. The existence of being able to do a massive AOE Stoneskin + Bless puts the healing word into S tier for me. If not S+. Sure there are other ways to do it but having more uses of it is incredibly good. And two turns is the majority of most fights where the outcome hasn't been decided yet. By itself it's not that incredible but then class balance in general would get really wacky if items weren't factored in. Fireball is way too specific to each fight to really categorize. It's either an S tier spell, S+, A, B, who knows. And also greatly depends on if it's being cast by and evocation specialist or not. Although you did at least mention that it's value changes if you have more sources of AOE damage. AOE damage becomes incredibly more valuable if you have something like Great Weapon Mastery on one or more people. For me whether or not it's better than haste just really depends on the type of fight it is. And obviously if you aren't evocation than the usefulness of it plummets.

[@GuillotineFistTW]

Daylight trivializes the Cazador fight and shadow dudes in act 2. You can use Feign death to stop the suicidal gnomes in steel watch foundry since they will attack and remove the santuary buff.

[@Korhi]

Yeah, Daylight is a feelgood spell that makes a lot of fights in act 2 much less annoying if you don't have darkvision.

[@Sparticulous]

You can also use feign death to steal everything from merchants.

[@welkingunther4298]

@@KorhiMuch easier to just carry the blood of loth and cast spirit guardians instead. Act 2 is immediately done with spirit guardians alone, adding the blood of loth just makes it even more trivial. If I feel a fight is upcoming, I just cast light cantrip in the area but it's not needed.

[@kw3494]

Oh I can save the stupid gnomes with this that's neat

[@hobojoe9717]

Why would you waste an L3 spell slot when you can just use the cantrip Light instead? Most of the way through Act 2 your casters only have about 3 L3 spell slots

[@LuckeeStrikee]

Yeah, the thing with prone is that it is a pretty mediocre effect to proc on your turn, but being able to proc it during the enemy's turn makes it really good, which is what makes ice surfaces so amazing.

[@welkingunther4298]

I wouldn't call prone effect mediocore on player turn. Gives advantage for the rest of your team + your next attacks if you action surge/haste. Not to mention, it forces a break on their concentration, no matter their saving throw. It's just stupid strong /brokenwhen they get slip on their turn and skips their turn entirely (which I disagree with balancewise). It should cut their movement to stand up after slipping, but not skip their turn entirely.

[@samanthuel8746]

It's kinda crazy how hard hypnotic pattern was nerfed compared to 5e yet it's still A tier. Just goes to show how busted it is in vanilla 5e

[@kalbarnes2494]

It’s S tier for me. There are so many fights where I’m thinking “that’s just soooo many enemies to manage - oh wait I cast hypno pattern once and nobody in my party takes damage”. 2 turns doesn’t sound like much, but most fights are like 3-4 turns on the longer end. The only reason why I think A tier is fair is that it can hypnotize allies too if the enemies are already on top of you.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

​​@@kalbarnes2494Fun fact: a level 7 Devotion Paladin and any ally near them is immune to Hypnotic Pattern. So if you want to make that spell party-friendly, there you go.

[@Flohr]

I hate that it’s 2 turns. A minute is very long, probably too long, but coming from 5e it just feels like a huge nerf to Bards in particular.

[@predwin1998]

​@@Flohr On the one hand I do agree that the Bard spell list took a pretty big hit in BG3 with spells like Hypnotic Pattern being nerfed and (Mass) Suggestion just being excluded. On the other hand I think Bards have more than enough going for them in this game to remain at or near the top of the rankings.

[@Flohr]

@@predwin1998agreed they are still extremely good. Swords Bard is overtuned compared to tabletop which is why it wins out in popularity and power rankings but Lore is still very strong. I also enjoyed playing Valor at lower levels but haven’t gone back to that playthrough.

[@Alys_Landale]

Biggest issue with plant growth is that any fire source will set it all on fire. That candle you didn't notice at the spells edge? Boom there goes a level 3 slot wasted. B is a pretty fair ranking. If it weren't so flammable would be A for me

[@williamgarth994]

Call lightning feels underwhelming because it's bugged. Under certain circumstances the spell will default to using wisdom to calculate the save DC rather than charisma if you were casting it as a storm sorcerer for example.

[@TheInfidel23]

Well damn that makes a lot of sense. I use this spell all the time as a storm sorc and sometimes it hits like a truck but then just doesn't.

[@PaladinNathan]

Personally, I use Mass Healing Word proactively to eat hits with the gloves that grant Blade Ward on heal, and that typically works well for me, though I definitely understand why you put it where you did.

[@trickster8968]

Warden of Vitality does not require concentration. That’s what makes it worth using

[@welkingunther4298]

As for paladin: Requires losing an action + 3rd spell slot (aka less smites) on a strong dmg dealer for a weak heal bonus action. With GWM and killing power of paladin, you can easily get your use of bonus action on an additional attack on crit/kill instead. That being said, for fights you didn't min max for or lasts a while, I suppose it's decent, but most fights end in very few turns anyways. Obviously if you long rest every other fight, then losing a spell slot for warden of vitality I guess isn't a big deal. As for bard: I can't say much, but something tells me there are better things for a bard to do than take an 2 turns to start rolling 2d6 heals on 1 person.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

@@welkingunther4298 You can cast it before wading into combat. I'd only use it on a support-focused Ancients Paladin with the Whispering Promise and Hellrider's Pride/Reviving Hands, though.

[@welkingunther4298]

@@tiradegrandmarshal I try to avoid precasting outside of obvious fights (such as act 2 ketheric fight) because I find it cheesy, especially on 2nd playthroughs when you know when every fight will take place. But yea, alot of spells are great pre-casted, but not worth it outside of that. I personally they just made it stronger. The fact it takes up a 3rd spell slot should make it a bonus action to cast. Otherwise, all these action spells will only be useful in pre-cast. Game is already easy enough without all the min-max precasts, I'd rather it be dynamic during battle.

[@welkingunther4298]

@@tiradegrandmarshal Anyways, it's prob decent on a full support build, but that alone requiring a character to go full support in a game where support isn't really rewarded as much as just killing them asap wants me to demote it to C. It's tooo situational for a B tier.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

@@welkingunther4298 Considering precasting always happens in tabletop games as well (mostly because you're gonna have a Rogue or someone scouting ahead), I don't consider it cheesy at all.

[@kw3494]

Call lighting is definitely S tire on Tempest Cleric since you can maximize the damage output of it. It is the single best spell that can carry you all the way to the end game imo especially if you pair it with the wet condition

[@Syntax1963A]

Yes I use it a lot and totally agree - Shadowheart makes the enemies wet and Gale blast the whole line of enemies into Oblivion - incredible damage!

[@legendofJupp]

​@@Syntax1963Ai think she makes everyone wet Sorry I'll see myself out

[@razuaza]

Call Lightning is beastly in 5e too, my party has a druid and tempest cleric and we often go into battle both casting it.

[@prodigalsun1678]

I prefer storm sorcerer because at level 6 sorc it gets a greater aoe which is actually really powerful if enemies are wet

[@prodigalsun1678]

Temp cleric + storm sorc call lightning though is godly

[@aintfalco7968]

I think some of these rankings leave out some important context. Hunger of Hadar being lower than darkness and fog because of spell level is fine and dandy, except we're talking about a warlock exclusive spell. Spell levels don't matter to warlocks. Once you get hunger, the others are obsolete. "You could be casting haste, you could be casting counterspell," except you probably won't because you're a warlock and you only have two spell slots. For bard, I absolutely agree that haste and counterspell are better uses of your spell slots, but you really need to affect the battlefield with your warlock slot, and hunger does that.

[@FluffiestWalrus]

I do feel like building your tier list around limiting to 5 long rests really devalues spells. Just clicking attack with a 2-handed fighter will be way better for economy than any spells. You totally should make any video you want! But I do feel like this tier list is not very applicable to most people since most people don’t limit rests to the same extent. Fireball is great for most people

[@DwWarWolf]

Yeah is it 5 per game or Act? If Act it's actually closer to the amount I have only long resting after I've spent everything and mostly gotten my 6-8 battles in. Otherwise 5 per game tells me to completely disregard every single tier list. 5e isn't even balanced around that limited of long restsm

[@Aestus_RPG]

Its 5 per act. I just mispoke in the video, but anyone familiar with my work will know what I meant.

[@FluffiestWalrus]

@@Aestus_RPG ya ya I know what you meant. I do just feel like *most* people are more lenient so that makes the tier list a bit less transferable - which is fine, but an important note

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@FluffiestWalrus Yeah, that is why I try to make the rules clear to everyone. If it isn't how you like to play then your mileage will vary.

[@senexiratus973]

@@Aestus_RPG Does that progress the story? It won't on Durge.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

AFAIC, Fireball's B rating is an average between level 5-6 play, when it is S-tier, and anything after that where it's C-tier because enemy HP just scales too much for it to make an impact.

[@johnwallace5284]

its good on blobs

[@IsilionNELE]

Protection from Energy is far worse than you think. It doesn't give protection against ALL elemental damage types, but only to ONE. You must choose an element when you cast it. Single target, single element, concentration. It'd be bad if it were a lvl 1 spell, but it's lvl 3. RP tier for sure

[@after_alec]

The spell level of hunger of hadar doesn’t really matter when it’s mostly warlocks casting it. MAYBE there’s a haste to compete with for pact of the tome or bard but I think one class feature out of three is an outlier and magical secrets is kind of its own ranking Not to mention that you can build around it with other surface-affecting spells like plant growth, spike growth and ice storm

[@robrob4217]

Warden of Vitality isn't a concentration spell

[@JoshuaProtz]

Well done on this series man. I have been listening to it as I drive to work and back. There have been more spells than I can count that you have given me ideas on how to best use them rather than just casting fireball, wall of fire, and hunger of hadar every fight. Great series, I know I will be coming back to certain timestamps to re-watch sections of each video.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@tiagoleivas3495]

Same here, it’s a great company when I’m driving to work and planning how to obliterate the next encounter!

[@DerfyRed]

@@Aestus_RPGyou gave a lot of really cool insight into new ways to think of spell effectiveness. But please, if you are going to clickbait fireball, at least have consistent reasonings for all your rankings. I think you might need to rethink how you rank spells before you just say to yourself “yeah this is consistently average” you also need to consider that your style of play, I.E. limiting long rests and focus on single target. Placing fireball and protection from energy in the same rank is the most confused tier-list I have ever seen. You didn’t even mention fireballs weaknesses or strengths other than straight numbers, then you say, “this spell isn’t my play-style so it’s average” you didn’t mention fire being the most common resistance, that Dex saves are quite likely to be succeeded as you continue through the game, or that some interactions with fireball limit the benefit of hitting multiple targets. An example being getting stacks of heat, no matter how many people fireball hits, you only get 2 stacks. Additionally, you talk somewhat about burning a level three spell slot like it’s a huge deal, which, most of the time, it is. But then you say protection from energy is also average like fireball. So, I’m burning that oh so important level three spell, to take my concentration away from haste or any other significantly stronger concentration spell, to give my ally a hyper specific resistance that only helps if I know the encounter I fight next or guess based on environment. Also, what is the point of resistance potions in this case? Simply don’t use them? Try to ration them out by wasting level 3 spell slots? Potions can’t lose concentration like a caster can, they are definitively a better option. Not like a single damage resistance is ever even considered a needed thing to have. I don’t see how you can, in the same video, place fireball significantly lower than most people expect because you yourself limit how many rests you can use and personally don’t like aoe because of a focus on canceling turns, then say for protection from energy “I never use this spell, b tier” and not even consider that your limited long rests and focus firing play-style would rank this spell in F if applied consistently.

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@DerfyRed I think I'm about as consistent as anyone can reasonably expect. I do make mistakes sometimes. Fireball isn't a mistake, I am confident with my ranking on that. Protection from Energy was a mistake. It should be lower.

[@benjaminjam666]

Some of these spells are based on playing a style based more on group positioning. For example, the aura spells cast in a way that buffs summoned creatures and hasted PCs can start to really add up. Now, admittedly, it takes waaaaaay more planning and organizing than a lot of people tend to play with. BG3 lends itself to spreading your party out a bit, not concentrating them into 1 tight area.

[@burningknight7]

Another reason call lightning might be bad is that unlike just invoking any normal spell of a class, the "Activate call lightning" part of the spell is sadly a little bugged and uses the spellcasting ability of the last class you added (not the last level up). For e.g. most people do this storm sorcerer 10 + tempest cleric 2, build to maximize the lightning damage but if you take the cleric levels later (even something like sorc 2 -> cleric 2 -> sorc 10) , even though the actual initial call lightning uses charisma as you received it from sorcerer class, your activate call lightning is now suddenly using wisdom for the save DC calculation which sucks if you have it at like 8 so most enemies were suddenly saving a lot and as you said, if they have the uncanny dodge like ability of monks and rogues that's just a wasted action at that point.

[@robertsilvermyst7325]

I would rather have advantage on Wisdom saves over a 1d4 bonus. The better of two rolls is more likely to succeed than a a 1d4 bonus on a low roll.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Advantage tends to be better, but Bless also does so much more for a lower level spell slot.

[@Tenko-3]

Revivify works on a downed ally as well. They do not need to be fully dead. And it allows you to reposition them like normal upon revival. That last bit is what i find most useful.

[@r6TrdSlow]

That’s a great point. I never thought about the repositioning part.

[@somedudewithakeyboard5388]

For me at least, Hunger of Hadar is the cornerstone of a strategy I like to call "Baldur's Circle 3". In essence, you Cast Hunger of Hadar, then Spike Growth inside the Hunger of Hadar, followed by either Evard's Black Tentacles, Plant Growth, or Ice Storm Everything inside is just dead, especially once you get attacks and spells that can knock them back into the middle of it the second they actually escape. Best Part? 1 Warlock spell slot + 1 Level 2 spell slot(Spike Growth) + 1 optional spell slot that is entirely up to you It's one of the cheapest combos you can pull off, especially considering how hard it hits Edit: Ok so apparently my life is a lie and the ground effects do't stack. Still, any ground effect + Hunger is unbelievably effective

[@hawkname1234]

The effects overwrite the ground. They don't stack.

[@somedudewithakeyboard5388]

@@hawkname1234 Really? I could've sworn they worked together

[@kalbarnes2494]

I believe it only uses the strongest one. So for example, it might make sense to use hunger of hadar and plant growth to quarter their speed instead of halving it.

[@Krater84]

Elemental Weapon from Drakethroat Glaive can be cast on two weapons by using Twin Spell cast by Sorcerer. You just need two characters holding the weapon to be next to sorcerer holding the glaive (no need to place them on the ground).

[@Aestus_RPG]

Right, I knew that, I just forgot.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

C-tier is probably fair for Daylight, but in the one battle (namely Cazador) where it comes into play it's a pretty big deal. The big thing there is that Daylight counts specifically as sunlight, which the Light cantrip does not.

[@ssaberwolf]

100%. I switch to a character hiding outside of Astarion's cutscene with Cazador and hit him with daylight before he can start the Black Mass... works every time

[@Aureilius2112]

Hunger of Hadar isn't actually a cloud spell so you can layer something like Cloudkill on top of it. Also a Bard with this spell would also have access to Plant Growth. This combo completely arrests enemy movement and unlike Darkness, you can fire into it without devil's sight.

[@chaoschao27]

Daylight was super useful in act 2. For the cost of a single action and the spell slot, all allies no longer have to worry about darkness. Without it, I need someone to burn their turn casting the cantrip on themselves then blindly running around trying to find the shadows so that Gale and ranged Asterion aren't uselessly waiting for a target to appear. It is a bit buggy sometimes though.

[@welkingunther4298]

Just use blood of lothan, a torch, or cantrip light on places where you think there will be a fight (maybe even toss some torches before hand and light them with fire bolt). Wasting a level 3 spell for that is bad when you can use spirit guardians and have your team sit in the radius. The shadows will come to you and burn.

[@RexCogitans]

I don't think you mentioned it a lot, but friendly fire is a consideration for some aoe spells like fireball, hypnotic pattern, sleet storm etc. Evocation spells like fireball can be mitigated of course. Also worth mentioning with plant growth is that it is a great area denial spell combo spell. While combining it with aoe concentratino spells that halve movement speed does not stack, but in practice the quartered movement speed is amazing vombined with those anyway. With hunger of hadar, spike growth, fan of knives it all but guarantees several hits per enemy. Of course, jump, misty step etc. can deal with it and for better or usually worse it is flamable.

[@barnibombosz1448]

3:00 I DID NOT expect a Battle for Wesnoth reference 😮 Made me appreciate you more 😁❤️

[@davidkelvon7936]

Last one, haste is better than you stated. It can also be used as a one turn single target no save shutdown spell. Not something I’d build around, but it can be useful.

[@kinggamereon653]

beyblading a group of weak enemies with spirit guardians is one of my favourite things. It's so fun

[@sutranitsua]

Plant growth and hunger of hadar is a devastating combo that can completely cc an entire encounter. Not to mention you can cast plant growth outside of combat without triggering a battle so it’s basically a free cc at the start of any battle that has no action cost. For me it’s easily an s tier spell I use before any fight. It has No concentration requirement, there is no saving throw to resist its effect. It is without a doubt the most slept on spell

[@fjdkfjdk]

If you think call lightning is underwhelming, try it on a char with awakened + bloodlust elixer. Black hole into double upcasted call lightning every turn against wet targets. Use a divinity charge to max out the dmg as a bonus. Use water myrmidon for wetness.

[@theAV8R]

One issue w Blink is that it breaks your concentration.

[@dangilboa6496]

I liked your guides so far but man, this one hit me hard! "Battle of Wesnoth" reference? I am sold, you got yourself a new subscriber. Oh, and excellent guides all around by the way. thanks.

[@kentoshin]

haven’t tested it myself, but I’ve heard that Blink will break concentration when you successfully blink out. Might be a bug, but as is it probably should be a lower tier

[@HW-ow9zp]

Yes, at least a couple weeks ago that was still the case unless it was changed this last patch

[@JasonNCSU2007]

Plant Growth on Spike Growth area is my Druid’s favorite combo. Any attempt to move just obliterates the enemy.

[@benross9174]

Plant growth is also really nice with Hungar of Hadar/other AoE effects

[@perry7416]

Amazing list. Only issue I had is hunger of Hadar in A tier. It is a fight deciding spell. Duergar boat fight? Fight with Sharrans in the temple in act 3? Large number of goblins? Cast hunger of hadar and its decided. I can go on but you get the point.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Hunger of Hadar in S-tier is a valid take.

[@ItsMe-ob8ue]

I honestly feel that although Fireball doesn't usually kill on its own, it sets up your other 3 party members to clean up those kills. I consistently have my fireball character and one of my melee characters getting high rolls on initiative, to the point that they are often the 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd turns per combat encounter. This means that I can spend a single fireball with no sorcery points to guarantee a decent chunk on enemies, and then send in my melee character to not only clean up the fireball kills, but possibly start on or even kill another enemy, depending on the attacks I use. I almost always end up with spending one level 3 spell slot for 4+ kills at the start of combat rather consistently. This leaves me room to spend my sorcery points on other things as well.

[@Aestus_RPG]

This is true, but if Fireball gets 3 targets into lethal range, those targets are probably low priority.

[@Mullymaster]

Regardless, action economy still probably wins. That could be 2-4 actions you’ve taken off the table for the enemies for that fight

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@Mullymaster Action economy tends to favor focusing down one target at a time, especially priority targets.

[@shadowarrow7373]

Daylight is useful against Cazador to keep him out of his mist form and the disciples of shar so you can not have disadvantage because they have like 4 wizards that constantly cast darkness

[@klasgelinder]

So all my runs so far I cannot live without mass healing word with blade ward gloves and bless ring. I get that necklace that gives the spell on a cleric, usually life with the alert feat or plus initiative shield. I cast this first turn, 2 turns of those buffs wins almost every fight, including npcs. For a bonus action only.

[@HippoLore]

I've seen someone use daylight and Otto's irresistible dance to trivialize the Cazador boss fight

[@Arkaine197]

The use for Detonation Glyph of Warding is as a trap, most of the GoW's you just want to drop on a bunch of enemies to instantly proc it on everyone inside it's radius, but with detonation you want to set it up at the top of a ladder before the fight and then watch it blast someone to their doom as they try to rush your ranged characters who are shooting down from up top.

[@rogerbodee]

The spell Daylight trivializes the Cazador fight. He and all his minions get a huge debuff while the light is on them.

[@legendofJupp]

Correction: warden of vitality does not need concentration, and is therefore a top tier healing spell. Lvl 6 lore bard -> magical secrets + 1 lvl life cleric lets you heal 2d6 +5 for a bonus Action (and lets you apply physical resistance, etc, with the right equipment). If you then take at least 2 levels in sorcerer, you can still apply twin haste with your free concentration and be the best healer / supporter ever

[@jaypickett829]

Something interesting to think about with the Paladins and Ranger exclusive spells: those 2 classes are not comparing and contrasting their exclusive spells against like fireball or fear for example. Lightning arrow might be a bad spell compared to lightning bolt or glyph of warding, but it’s one of the best options a Ranger actually has access to, so maybe it should be higher?

[@robertlavallee8358]

Good list! The only thing I would really change is Plant Growth! It’s definitely more in the realm of high A tier probably between fear and Sleet Storm in my opinion it totally shuts down melee attackers with no concentration!!!

[@Aestus_RPG]

Fair take!

[@welkingunther4298]

It also fks up the enemy A.I. I try not to use it too much because the few times I've used it on Jaheira, the enemy seems to have no clue what to do and just walks around in it and ends their turn half the time.

[@robertlavallee8358]

@@welkingunther4298 yeah they tend to not want to put themselves in double difficult terrain I find they correctly use their jump to traverse it faster but even with that it still cuts their actions by a ton!

[@welkingunther4298]

@@robertlavallee8358 I wish it didn't break their A.I. The combat is already easy enough without it, but I wanted to try out some druid action and environmental effects for once. But was disappointed to how they reacted to it. Might be the best lv 3 spell in the game outside of haste just because it breaks A.I Sometimes enemies use misty step and get out no problem, other times, it just wastes their entire turn and makes them take 6-12 dmg.

[@benross9174]

The best part is how well it stacks with other thing like Hunger of Hadar and Lightning bolt. Just dont use fire and ur good

[@IVIulticam]

When you successfully blink you lose whatever spell you was concentrating on

[@alannathelioness]

I feel like Daylight should be higher just because of the sheer number of shadow and undead enemies in the game who are blinded or have disadvantage when in the radius of the spell. For a single spell it often imposes disadvantage on all attacks against you, and I think sometimes gives you advantage against them as well. Plus it dispells magical darkness which is really useful in certain fights if you don't have the ability to see through magical darkness. My only complaint is that it only dispells the darkness, but it doesn't prevent someone from casting darkness again over the daylight spell, which keeps it from being really useful in say the House of Grief fight. I would still put it in at least B tier for how useful it is in Act Two especially. Also the main benefit of fly vs the jump spell is that with fly, you get all of that mobility (and it really is a lot compared to normal movement) but it doesn't cost you your bonus action, which is really great from an action economy perspective, but I usually prefer to use the potion to avoid using my concentration slot so I mostly still agree with where it was ranked.

[@HuyNguyen-ck7hl]

I feel like Hunger if Hadar is S tier. If Haste hinges on the synergy with Fighter, w/ Hunger your Warlock most likely can see in the darkness and has buffed Eldritch blasts so you can just pin down someone in/behind it if you want.

[@foebok]

And with the melee nerf, Haste is only really decent on casters.

[@TheAde2]

Hey man I think your videos are really good and super educational I've been watching them for quite a while and your my go to for bg3 vids, if I had one suggestion I would say u should have more demonstrations throughout your videos (maybe not for every spell that would probably take forever) but I think it would give your content a real nice touch and probably pull people in more, maybe next time your playing and cast a spell and and the stars align where it shows all of the spells potential just clip it and start a little archive where u can use those clips in future content. Again just a suggestion keep up the good work man 👍

[@ssaberwolf]

I'd love this

[@destroyercreater98]

17:41 maybe because like sunlight beam it SEEMS like a good spell cause you can save spell slots. But you forget that by ‘saving’ spell slots, you don’t do nearly as good damage whenever you cast something. As a rule of thumb. Call Lightning’s max damage is -18 points lower than lighting bolt. A point difference that gets larger on wet targets. Besides. If you truly care about saving spell slots, you’d use scrolls.

[@kirant]

Given that it seems like you're expecting some push back on Fireball in B, I'd note that I get the logic. Personally, I'd bump it up another tier entirely (high A, low S) but mostly because I feel like you get it way too early. It feels like a 4th level spell left at 3rd level (something I've heard similar experiences with from friends who use it on tabletop 5e). By the time you get it in BG3, you could still be mopping up Goblins or other weak hordes...all fairly reliable clears with it. Because of that, I find it can absolutely carry for end of act 1 or early act 2 fights in a similar way to Spike Growth. Later on, it's very much as you note where its main advantage (AoE) is offset by poor scaling and just being "okay", but it remains a reliable contributor. Certainly, I find it worth preparing (more along the B tier, as you describe it). But having said that, end game content had me using Magic Missile cheese (stacking every item that buffs its damage and number of missiles) way more than Fireball.

[@DwWarWolf]

I feel an Int modifier from a Evocation wizard helps keep fireball lasting into Act 3. A single aoe party member lets other single target damage dealers easily clear encounters compared to other party compositions. Even trying it work in Act 3 that's only 1/3 of the game and Fireball is strong for the 2/3 of the game as it is absolutely a high A tier.

[@ThanhLai5]

I like to use Fireball with Heat mechanic. With the gloves that give you Heat everytime you deal fire dmg, I would cast Scorching Ray using the highest spell slot to build up Heat (+7 fire dmg max) and then combine Heat with Fireball to effectively clear out weaker enemies in the fight. It worked very well for me.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

Fireball is S-tier when you get it and C-tier not long after. Enemy HP just scales way too much beyond levels 5-6.

[@DwWarWolf]

@@tiradegrandmarshal definitely doesn't. Heat as the other mentioned, callous radiant, Evocation lvl 10 ability and any other spell damage scale much better with aoe effects and fireball is the highest damage you can get as a base.

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

@@DwWarWolf Heat is the weakest elemental effect by far.

[@rismart620]

Hunger of hadar trivialized so many encounters for me in late ACT 1 and most of ACT 2. My Wyll would cast it and spam eldritch blast with repelling blast and devil sight to keep dangerous foes. The portal encounter was pretty easy with it, and so was the first battle at Moonlight Tower with the Orc mage. Sleetstorm + Hunger of hadar didn't let her do anything.

[@jeffbezos2960]

Yes I would say it's the best lvl 3 spell in game if the boring mandatory spells haste and counterspell didn't exist. People say it's a downside that it can mess up your melees but if you aren't a moron then no it doesn't

[@rismart620]

​​@@jeffbezos2960it hardly messes up any ally, the area doesn't obscure vision it blinds enemies and it doesn't do damage if you enter (only if you start or end turn there). So anyone attacking from outside has advantage, melees can stand at the edge, hit people and shove them back or jump through it to reposition. Also blinded enemies can't target you with spells and can't target spells or effects that needs line of sight (like misty step) Blinding people with no save required is amazing.

[@HW-ow9zp]

I feel like daylight, which is a spell I've only cast a small handful of times, is ineligible for RP tier simple because it trivializes Cazador completely. Maybe other people approach that fight differently. But it's pretty accessible and boy is it gigantic

[@ashtonrooks7899]

Daylight serves as a hard counter to the shadow curse throughout act 2, trivializing certain encounters

[@Sparticulous]

In defense of feign death, you can rob merchants of everything they own, you talk to them with one character, cast darkness or fog cloud with another, and feign death with a third character. Your thief can then take everything.

[@vampG1]

Would be cool to see a “all RP spells” tier list to rank them on their own merits.

[@danielmario7138]

fireball with a wild magic sorcerrer with : -hat of fire acuity -thermoarcaic gloves -bots of stormy clamour -necklace of elemental augmentation -curruscation ring. its really strong, u will be hitting almost max damage( or even more with heat) fireballs with this set up all the time and its such a fun build that u can make pretty early on act 2 and will carry u all the way to end game. its fun because its not only just landing crazy fireballs, its using your concentration to place strategic firewalls or to buff your strikers (u dont need debuffs because u already do it just by doing damage) and u have wild magic unpredictability (funniest skill on the game tbh) gets especially fun when u get "controlled caos" at lv 10 and the ring from the hag on act 3.

[@rythis155]

Warden of vitality does not cost concentration, so it's a free team defensive buff like Blink that can give a total of 20d6 healing, which n top of healing focused itemization (free bless, resistance, bonus healing, self healing, etc) is huge

[@ch.kv.]

Really appreciate these item tier lists, thanks again!

[@ericreynolds2452]

This is the tier list I’ve been waiting for man 🙏 love the content

[@ssaberwolf]

Sunlight trivializes the Cazador fight and really helps on the House of Grief fight, too. (Amazing to me that somebody this engrossed in optimization hasn't tried using sunlight on the vampire lord.) It's also very helpful throughout Act 2, due to its huge cast area. But the way it handles during the Cazador fight alone makes it incredible to have on hand.

[@Gamingzone-123_]

Daylight is amazing against cazador in act 3, it will make him take damage per turn and cancel his healing ability

[@sunnyd9321]

Warden of Vitality is S in my book. I made a Shadowheart go Life Cleric and full on healing + support and this spell was usually the first thing I'd cast before any encounter with how good it was at maintaining my two frontliners' health. It can also be used to revive allies from a distance for free and with extra HP when they go down so they can chug a potion after. You can pair this with Sanctuary to have your cleric focus purely on healing and not get interrupted ever by anything, and it's not a concentration, so you can have Bless or Beacon of Hope up meanwhile.

[@Proamjoe]

34:54 Wait, are you saying you only long rest 5 total times from prologue to end credits? Wouldn’t that lock you out of a lot of camp cutscenes? Does that 5 include the forced long rests when traveling between certain zones? That seems like a strange self inflicted restriction.

[@Aestus_RPG]

I misspoke. I meant 5 long rests per Act. For story I rest back-to-back a few times and count it as one rest.

[@skilly4003]

Personally I love the multiclass feature and how it’s implemented. Some classes are too weak on their own like ranger so being able to combine strengths from other classes is a buildcrafters dream.

[@DellikkilleD]

laughs in 9 volleys a round

[@tiagoleivas3495]

Fireball vs Gliph: I totally agree with the argument, but to defend a bit our beloved ball of fire, it has much better range (gliph is basically range of touch) and with a evocation wizard you can save your melee party.

[@Qwertype315]

I think it actually has a lot of range on it, can also be part sorcerer for a bunch of reasons and make it a careful spell

[@tadferd4340]

Glyph powers the Abjuration Ward. Abjuration wizards are insane. Basically unkillable.

[@mccasper5721]

I've had your tier list videos playing in the background for most of the day. Something about BG3 specifically and d20 games in general make them an optimizer's paradise and you come at it with a really tactical mind that sees through a lot of the fluff. But since you apparently love arguments in your comments: The AoE slander has got to stop. Yes, it's true that generally speaking single-target damage is better for reducing the opponent's turns, but no matter how good the single target damage is, it can only ever take down one enemy at a time. AoE spells, depending on the situation, can stop multiple enemies from taking actions at once. And even if they don't kill the enemies you can cast another fireball and end the fight. At the very least, can we say that AoE spells are situationally amazing if your faced with lots of enemies that would take awhile to single target down?

[@johnlynnbeck]

Hell yeah, totally agree with Glyph of Warding being better and more versitile than Fireball. It's a spell that I definitely slept on during most of my playthroughs, and wound up using by chance at one point because I had a scroll on one character and desperately needed to do some damage at a wonky point in the initiative order. And when I saw it absolutely wreck face (ice glyph on wet baddies), I did a double take and thought "whow, hold up now..." And I've been using the hell out of it ever since, either setting traps or just dropping them as one would a modifiable fireball.

[@JohnThompson-es3ph]

My first play through with a tempest cleric. Bonus action- potion of speed Action- cast call lightning (add channel divinity for max damage roll) Action- reuse call lightning (concentration, so no spell slot used) If the target is wet Up to 60+ 6d10 damage at level 5 that is repeatable for the use a 3rd level spell slot, one potion (or someone else casting haste) and some channel divinity points

[@fortunatus1]

The trick to Call Lightning is to take 2 levels of Tempest Cleric for the Destructive Wrath Channel Divinity to max the damage on your shot. Take Create/Destroy Water as a cleric spell because standing in water doubles the damage of lightning attacks. You'll do 60 Lightning damage for a 3rd level spell and more on successuve turns. Then stack magic items that give you bonus to spell save DC, arcane acuity, and Reverberation magic items. If you knock them prone in the water, they're done for. I'm currently playing a Storm Sorcerer 7/Tempest cleric 2 in act 2 and just wrecking the enemies. Watch out for creatures immune to Lightning, though, like flesh golems.

[@giorno4859]

I think lightning arrow is straight up RP tier in my experience. Once again, the ranger with the right setup, can deal more damage with two attacks, EVEN IF THE TARGETS ARE WET! This is because of the dexterity saving thrown. I've found myself dealing chip damage to a group of a maximum of three targets that are wet but succeded on the DEX save, something like 5-7 damage on each, while my ranger can deal with a single bow attack with hunter's mark and a concentration ring that deals +1d4 psychic damage, + another ring that deals +2 acid damage around 20-25 damage, can crit and attacks twice. I've never saw myself in a situation that lightning arrow was even in some way, build or setup, worth casting.

[@ThanhLai5]

I'm not sure about Animate Dead being at S tier to be honest. Corpses need to meet the "unspoiled" condition to be able to use. It means that you just can't finish the enemies with any spells that deal elemental (even cold), acid damage because that will ruin the corpses. Imagine investing 6 levels into Wizard (Necromancer) so that you can summon 2 zombies and then having to kill enemies in a certain way to raise those zombies. Too much hassle for me.

[@Luckmann]

Flight is easily S-tier. It will fly you anywhere within its range. It doesn't matter where it is. The main obstacle is honestly the shitty camera. Saying that Jump does everything Fly does is flat-out wrong.

[@massive733]

My favorite thing with Sleet Storm and my team, is that I used me as a Sorcerer to cast it, Wyll to Hunger of Hadar on my Ice Surface, and Shadowheart to use Planar Ally to summon a Djinni. Now with all of that, Wyll with Repelling Blast and the Djinni with infinite Thunderwaves, I was essentially stunlocking countless enemies by booping them back into the middle of the Hunger/Ice over and over again. Super funny to see lol

[@Gero161]

my experience with sleet storm is that it is stupidly op end of act 1 up to mid of act 2 and just stops working after that. in the githyanki creche i could cast this in a door way and hordes of elite interplanar soldiers would slip like in a slapstick movie. After that it fell of quickly though as enemies succeeded on the save against the ice way too often to make it reliable. i believe ground surfaces use static DCs instead of a characters spellcasting DC and that holds it back in the late game.

[@spacechannelfiver]

If Fireball isn't the answer then you aren't casting enough of it.

[@sammartinez3588]

the reason "warden of vitality" is at least A tier is because it doesn't actually require concentration... it's literally a free bonus action heal per turn for 10 turns

[@Matthewcmiel]

plant growth is one of the better options for bards specifically at level 5.

[@yozhik_out_of_mist]

Damn bro Wesnoth is soooooo gooood omg, never heard anyone say anything about it outside of my friend circle. Playing it all the time with them, the game is amazing

[@terradraca]

There was a video where someone managed to cast daylight on Cazador's staff and watching him burn. Funny enough, the daylight spell in actual DnD 5e states it's not real sunlight so it doesn't damage vampires but apparently it does in this game. I took Hunger of Hadar on my bard. That spell has single handedly shut down entire enemy groups for 1-2 turns many a time. Great spell.

[@largegroupofmales]

I feel like i am the only person more perturbed by the stinking cloud placement than fireball (i effectively used stinking cloud one time)

[@cthulhuwu_]

Feign Death can be cast on a friendly trader to put them to sleep and steal all their wares and gold with ease. Just send the trader ~800 gold for free and become their ally, then cast feign death and steal back your gold. You also now have maximum profit from any wares you sell to them, so just sell your stolen wares back to them if you want.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Lol, that's hilarious!

[@JosieJOK]

Useful, but the very definition of RP-tier. (Edited for spelling)

[@cthulhuwu_]

​@@JosieJOK I would say by the terms defined in the intro of the video, Feign Death should be A-Tier. It might be useless in most situations but when it comes into play, it is the only spell of its kind and incredibly effective in that niche. Trading with merchants isn't what I'd consider "RP tier" because acquiring weapons, gear, and consumables can absolutely be meta-defining. FWIW it even works on traders with Fey Ancestry like Araj Oblodra who should be immune to magical sleep spells based on her racial traits. Edit: For solo runs or just for efficiency, taking Feign Death as a bard with sleight of hand and persuasion lets you maximize your gold income through trading and stealing from traders. I bet you could absolutely design a build around a swords bard with the Twist of Fortune mace and a dip into monk for dextrous attacks.

[@JosieJOK]

@@cthulhuwu_ Fair points!

[@unbiddenisland]

@@cthulhuwu_ I mean i understand, but not once in the game have I ever ran out of money or had difficulty buying any item iv wanted, honestly the opposite if anything, especially playing the game solo. Its a cool trick but far from necessary or usefull for me. I mean i go out of my way to always buy potions and arrow types everytime they restock, honestly traders run out of money not me lol, I always end up having to run around trying to find others with money. so for me while the application is unique, it would never be useful for my games.

[@Local_commentor]

3 things in this game make me very happy Greatswords FIRE BALL AND Eldritch blast god

[@Politizer]

This list makes me wonder about the criteria you've been using. While I agree with you that Counterspell is pretty great, it does seem situational (only useful when an enemy is casting spells) and I don't see ways to "build around it", so the criteria for S tier don't seem to be capturing our intuitions about what makes this spell good. (Or, alternatively, maybe the criteria are right and the spell is actually A-tier. Come to think of it, I rarely use this spell anymore -- I usually just kill casters before they can do anything -- although, crucially, I do still bring it along just in case even if I'm not using it, and I still do use it in some fights where there are too many casters to focus down quickly, like the Steel Watch lab.)

[@kentoshin]

omg battle for wesnoth, genuinely didn’t think anyone else knew about that game what a nostalgia blast

[@Aestus_RPG]

People still play it and it still gets frequent patches! Its polished gem now. One of my favorite pvp tactics games.

[@kentoshin]

@@Aestus_RPG wow that’s awesome! it was one of my favorite strategy games, truly a hidden gem. maybe I’ll revisit it sometime

[@ShermTank7272]

Never in a million years would I expect to hear a reference to Battle for Wesnoth in a BG3 video

[@largegroupofmales]

happy sunday friend, gonna rustle some feathers with that title!

[@predwin1998]

Counterspell in BG3 (unlike 5e) actually only guarantees success on spells of 3rd level or lower, regardless of the spell slot you used to counter it, unless I've missed a relatively recent change. I distinctly remember upcasting my Counterspell against a 4th level spell at the House of Loss only for the spell to still go through, and as far as I remember the tooltip also doesn't list any benefits to upcasting Counterspell.