Fixing brake pedal ratio problems

The brake pedal setup I built for the Crusty project was not going to work with a very poor final ratio of 3.71 to 1 ratio. I had limited space to fix this and get the setup to a 6 to 1 ratio is going to be a challenge.

[@johneverson2433]

Every time I watch your videos I learn something

[@porschmn167]

All I can say is Wow, that's a lot of detail. You have sure earned the pleasure of your first ride in Crusty..

[@bryancooper2699]

Crusty is taking shape. That’s a lot of brake pedal . Once fluid and pressure is in the master cylinder Update is appreciated and the tips were good as usual.

[@gregneymeyer5220]

I've watched a lot of body repair videos, always feeling almost intimidated by it all, but you make me feel like I could actually do this, especially since I don't have a ton of special tools. Just the basics, welder, torch, grinder, etc. Keep up the good work and keep the vids coming.

[@MrIgor1955]

When I was a a newbie to your channel, I thought you should "Finish" your cars with shiny paint jobs. It didn't take me long to see the wisdom of your build style. . I'm building my current project car the way you do. Fix the rust, upgrade the brakes and drivetrain. The body work and interior are not at the top of the list anymore. Keep up the good work. 😀

[@carlosmontoya8658]

Mr. Fitzee, you are, indeed, a brake pedal scientist. Ratios evident in finite math are the core of this install. Kudos! Enjoy your content down here in Pennsylvania.

[@bobgaylord8883]

I need to re-check the brake set-up on my build. I may have incorrectly figured the brake lever ratio, so you may have saved me a considerable amount of time & work to fix any problem, AFTER the build was done. Thank you very much !!

[@tylerbarrett6652]

If you get a chance, Fitzee, check out Fanatik Builds upload today... it dealt with his braking system. His pedal design changed the direction of the force so that he could mount his booster/master cylinder sideways. Even if you can't use the idea, it may spark an idea or two. Personally, I think he's got one of the best resto-mod build series on the internet right now... You have more than just Crusty on your channel so your channel so you don't just have a build series, you have like a whole course in how-to build/fabricate on a budget. Anyways, he's only got like 44k subscribers so he could use a shout out or two if you deem it worthy. The brake thing he uploaded today is genius. Thanks for sharing this with us... I really like following your progress on Crusty and I look forward to every new upload.

[@jorgefernandez-mv8hu]

Thanks for explaining this to us. This is a very important point in a build. I'm glad it worked out for you. Just don't forget to put the rubber pad on the pedal. Thanks again for the lesson.

[@user-fc7li1tu5e]

Thanks Tony for the education on brake pedals.

[@copperaudio9664]

I use a 7/8" piston Wilwood master cylinder for non power assist brakes. It works great with 4 wheel disks on my 3,700lb 66 Coronet. The longer pedal travel due to the smaller diameter piston gives great pedal feel too.

[@patrickharrand]

The Tips are always good Tony. Thanks for sharing your skills with us.

[@bradavery8121]

I remember when a certain notorious mechanic shop I didn't know was bad *cough big o cough* replaced my calipers and rotors and managed to put my rear calipers on backwards. I was really happy the pedal went to the floor and eventually my bus came to a stop. Terrifying in a large vehicle you drive off in doesn't stop like it should. Also I dont have a shop or proper tools/ time for repairs like that. So thats how i found out good vs bad mechanics. Love your videos and all the help it brings to me!

[@stephenmorgan8510]

Great, now you have me wondering if my pedal bottoms out in my master cylinder. Good stuff.

[@joeclement3680]

Mr.Fitzee,I'd jus like to commend you on such an excellent job that you do make'n all'ove your intrest'n videos!!! I've yet to have a dull moment while be'n on this terrific and wild ride that you so graciously keep bring'n us along with you!!! I'm gonna be truthful cause my mom raised me an my sis that way. I've never considered make'n a trip to New Foundland; but, I'll be sure to put it on my bucket list!!! Probably won't ever be able to finish that list anyways; cause, I'm not get'n any younger by no means. I've be'n permanently ldisabled since '11 and I'm knocking purty hard on be'n 58 years old now and I've already out lived my worker's comp life expectancy from what I've be'n told!!! So, Every day above dirt is a gift from the Big Man in the Sky!!! Aight, I'm gonna finish with this. If you're ever in the Charlotte,North Carolina area it'd be my pleasure to go to a restaurant of your like'n and treat you to some good old Southern hospitality and dinner is on me!!! Jus give me a holler, and preciate you lend'n me your ear for so long!!! In the kindness of regards and GOD BESS you & your entire family, Joe C.

[@labontottingham3051]

excellent I really like the detail that you went in to to explain the ratio solutions

[@RichPober]

Alternatively, fit a master cylinder with a larger internal diameter for more displacement and less pedal travel. Fitting a larger master cylinder is useful when increasing the size of the brake calipers, due to the greater displacement needed to move the bigger or additional brake pots.

[@mortimerschnerd3846]

This will work for decreasing travel, but adversely affects the multiplication ratio. No such thing as a free lunch. A vacuum reservoir and power booster would be a option.

[@Spiritof_76]

Hard as hell to push down the pedal though on manual brakes.

[@georgebettiol8338]

Fitting a larger bore master cylinder will require more 'leg force' to acheive the same braking effort. So to offset the larger bore, the 'leverage' will need to increase. As stated by @mortimerschnerd3846 - "there is no such thing as a free lunch".

[@chemistry636]

Brilliant explanation, very detailed.

[@noelcastle3986]

Hey Fitzee you popped up in my feed after at least a year thought you had stopped social media . Glad to see you again missed watching you practice your skills.

[@rustyrodgarage2686]

Nice job,that's a real concern that I may not have realized

[@larrylilly2552]

Another good day of work, good tips

[@michaelevans7013]

Very informative and visuals for understanding top notch.

[@user-ze9ku1wq1r]

Awesome I can't stop watching this genius 😊

[@fonhollohan2908]

That's impressive Tony...Good Stuff.

[@user-zp9yx9kq8k]

You may recall I mentioned, in my previous comment, that the "proof is in the pudding" in other words to comfortably stop a car travelling 100 mph you are going to need upwards of 800 -1000 psi at the rotors. This is achieved by the pedal lever ratio and the size of the master cylinder bore. Now also you need to take into account the volume of the caliper capacity comes into play. You mentioned that if you needed to, as a last resort, you would go to a smaller bore size. That assumption may or may not be correct depending if the calipers are huge volume calipers for example six piston. I suspect since you are not road racing there would be no need for those. So if you keep to the regular size calipers, I suspect all would be OK as far as meeting the volume requirements to activate the calipers, (Drum brakes are not obviously an issue). However from personal experience going from 1 inch to a 7/8 inch bore, I observed that during operation the pedal does move down noticeably further to the firewall due to the smaller volume albeit higher pressure going to the calipers. Hopefully you have a friend who has the tool to measure brake pressure at the caliper. By the way you're concerns about the brake pedal hitting the firewall are in my opinion overstated. The odds of losing both front and rear brakes in your application (not a daily driver in salty conditions I.E. race use only) would be next to none. So IMO the pedal will never bottom out. However you would need that travel to do the old fashion pump your brakes bleeding technique. This is based on my real life experience when I build my hot rods. Hope that helps.

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Great info. Thanks. Always looking to learn

[@rjung_ch]

Just before going to bed. Thanks Tony! 👍💪✌

[@jakespeed63]

Good information Tony. The drum brakes on my 1939 coupe really suck. I want to look at this ratio and see if that is part of the problem. Stock 1940 drums on the front and Ford Granada on the back but the car doesn’t stoplike it should.

[@joelkoonce8559]

I've learned absolutely most valuable things from Tony, but all that calculating and geometry stuff is way above My pay grade. 😮

[@ronbunker5778]

Great tutorial!

[@donlandenberg8126]

Thanks for sharing with us.

[@Ben.Mekanik]

Thank you, very informative🔥

[@per-olavrask4715]

I’m building a -51 Chevy Styleline like a kustom. I bought a willwood pedal with dubble h-cyl . With man break. Had a Mercedes break H-cyl with powerbreak and, I’m glad that I did so cause of the ratio on the M pedals witch were cut. I had on idea about the ratio. This was new for me. Thanx Fitzee👍🏻

[@joshzotz7445]

I had a similar problem with my build. I just ran a booster and modified for a 4.5:1.

[@jds1906]

Tony, Great informational video as always! Bravo Sir👏 just curious... any consideration to using an extension bracket behind the Master Cylinder to move it forward and out from under the cowl, you would have been able to move the MC it up to where needed, was just thinking if that might have saved you some labor. Keep up the GREAT Work! looking forward to the Next Video👍

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Just makesfor a longer rod. Thought about but I think what I have will be fine

[@BrucePierson]

That was a complex procedure to achieve the result that you wanted. Hopefully the pedal pressure is not too high when applying the brakes when the car is finished.

[@johnkranz4004]

Very nice Tony

[@Nocabishanienty75]

Good work fitzzy

[@joesgaragedoorservice7506]

awesome enjoyed every minute

[@brianhaw9398]

I should watch all of the video before i comment.👍🍻🇨🇦

[@garyjohnson801]

Hey Tony. Had you use the complete pedal assembly from an A body dodge like the duster it would have worked the same way because they are standard brakes. That's what I used, and it made it so easy for me, and I didn't have to do all those measurements

[@georgebettiol8338]

Unless you have conducted detailed measurements of the space available in the Toyota (Crusty), there is no guarantee the Duster assembly could be installed without any sort of modification.

[@garyjohnson801]

@georgebettiol8338 your right to a point. But the pedal assembly from a Duster or Dart is small and most of them came without power brakes. So I couldn't have made it easier for him without the modification that he had to do. I've used them and I've had a lot of the dusters and darts

[@domecrack]

I get to watch this one on Canadian soil!

[@ibraunchy20-vn5kd]

Fitz , be sure and double pin the pedal bolt assembly , had my buddy in his hemi 64 Savoy wagon lose the pedal on the big end at 146 mph , luckily the pine trees kept him out of the creek , he had a small clip in pedal arm for quick master cyl removal to get the vlv cover off to lash vlvs , the clip had broke , keep the vids coming

[@jamesdisney9150]

If you finish the car and you end up buying a new master cylinder and brake pedal, you gotta send me a T-shirt 😂👍💯

[@stevenwithanS]

Trial and error. You got it now.

[@shotsrodder]

Nice fix Fitzee 👍

[@BrucePierson]

You could actually install a remote booster that is not attached to the master cylinder. I did this with a car years ago when I converted it from drum brakes to disc brakes. But I think you mentioned previously something about the vacuum with that particular engine, which is why you didn't want a booster?

[@tonyv1952]

I would have to lay it out on the bench too.

[@paulketchupwitheverything767]

Good fix. Would another solution have been to add an L shaped bell crank between the pedal and the master cylinder rod? The relative lengths of the arms of the bell crank could be set to give you the ratio/mechanical advantage needed. It would have been more complex and added another element in the linkage between pedal and m/cyl. but might have allowed you to keep the original pedal and action that you were happy with.

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Now your into something you need major math to figure out. Lol

[@alanberube2305]

Pivot point for your pushrod needs to be double shear or it won't pass inspection.

[@TgWags69]

Seems like you could have welded a tab or ear to the top of the shank to move the top pivot. That would've let you keep the pad to stay the same. I wonder how comfortable that will be having the pad so vertical?

[@fitzeesfabrications]

I sit really low so pedal is at a good angle for seating position

[@randytimmons1358]

Tony, your work and knowledge is amazing! We are so grateful to have found you on youtube. This is an off topic question, what you are doing on the rockets brakes are way beyond my skills, figuring from inception, very impressive but not for me. Okay, I have an 89 K5, my son and I have been putting back together for past couple years. Why is the hole on the end of the rocker? I know in case dirt gets in could possibly get out but probably not. Have you ever welded up? We made inner rockers so they are sealed, Ill put in a couple small vent holes but, to have that big hole behind the fender seems like trouble. Your thoughts? Thank you and we LOVE the sweatshirts!

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Thanks. I capped holes like that. Sometime in such a way that if needed to oil up again just remove a few screws and brake the seam sealer. I had those sections rust out and just welded them solid as well. They need drainage as they will get water in them.

[@randytimmons1358]

I certainly thank you! I think they need welded up, just a rust catcher. I will put a couple holes for drainage. Tony, I would love to meet you some day! Thank you again and have a GREAT DAY! @@fitzeesfabrications

[@christopherconrad4156]

Got to do this with my truck. Master cylinder is under the floor , pedal comes up and out...🤯

[@deanm4138]

Cool now the rocket will be able to stop

[@mauroarantes9407]

WAAAW GOOD....

[@andrewswift456]

Move master cylinder up and use a remote brake fluid reservoir.

[@kuakkacam]

Fitzy what about sound insulation and carpet once the car is done. Your brake pedal will bottom out first before the master, no?

[@fitzeesfabrications]

I'll make sure it will be fine

[@larryayers3542]

Hey Tony Any chance we could see pix of that T Bucket you mentioned? Love your work, bud. Larry

[@fitzeesfabrications]

I think I'll do a story on that on my other channel. That was a fun car.

[@davidwalters4014]

If you put a tab off the back of pedal, you will shorten the rod throw,making the brakes act quicker. Pedal shouldn’t hit floorboard

[@brianhaw9398]

Will the steering wheel interfere with your foot movement? It looked like your knee came up pretty high when you were sitting in the drivers seat. Could you lower the top bolt( the one the brake pedal swings from?

[@fitzeesfabrications]

I have clearances and the upper bolt is lowered inch and half from where I started

[@stevekelly4103]

Grt. Story

[@mattthescrapwhisperer]

2 Friday videos!

[@ronaldfarmer1208]

That was a head scratcher

[@joell439]

👍👍😎👍👍

[@tommytech55]

2 things to think about. 1. I personally think that the pedal lever should be one piece for safety sake. 2. I think that you should have a pedal stop at the firewall. You don't want to use the master cylinder for the stop.

[@ibraunchy20-vn5kd]

1) See my above comment about a pinned pedal 2) Correct , I use a rubber stubber from a slapper bar/traction bar trimmed to fit or a hood rubber covered height adjustment bolt

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Yes its the firewall itself. If it was up off the fire wall I would add one

[@ryanworkman5229]

I wouldn't really expect it to cause any issues, unless there is a problem in the braking system the pedal should be using nowhere near full travel, really the only way the master cylinder could ever bottom out if components are sized correctly is if there is a failure in both circuits at once.

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

Now that you have that PART figured out, you have to MAKE SURE your brake rod allows the master cylinder piston ALL THE WAY OUT!!! If you don't, you will hit the brakes a few times and the car will not roll, even with the pedal up..

[@fitzeesfabrications]

It needs some free Playas the fluid heats up it will expand. I seen it happen a few times before.

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

I don't think having the master bottom out before the pedal does is as critical as it might seem. Since the end result is no brakes either way but damage to the master cylinder added as well during a panic stop attempt with no brakes. It is great that you are thinking that thru though since you certainly don't want it to bottom out at 50% of the master travel, but closer to 90% or so for the best chance during a brake failure. You can use a stick or metal rod and measure the distance from top pivot point to push rod connection, then do the math in a straight line and cut it to compare it to your pedal set up so the bends don't make it confusing to sort out. Great video to help people think a bit more about something very critical when building or modifying their vehicle.

[@lancemclean9273]

Darn near everything is more work than you think it will be

[@thomascrowley9403]

You said you wanted your foot at a certain point on the pedal. That was your left foot. Are you setting this up for left foot braking?

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Yes. I drive these cars with two feet. Old street racing trick

[@nobodyspecial6436]

As much as I enjoy your videos this one lost me… you started spittin out fractions and math all i was hearing was Charlie Browns teacher..😂😂… kinda brought me back to high school… it never made sense then either!! But it all made sense to you and you achieved what you set out to do so congrats 👏👏👏👏

[@user-rb2mf3hj3e]

"Triggernomics with Tony" If Crusty left the Clarenville Dragway at noon, and a train left Sin Jawns at 11....🤣 Bonus question; How many weld passes to replicate the strength of the original pedal? (It's a trick question, it's not trigonometry, it's algebra!) My head hurts from all this math. LoL

[@Vintageguy73]

Fashion a quadrant

[@clausschuster470]

electric power brake sysem

[@BrucePierson]

You did well this time, you only called the master cylinder a booster once (near the start of the video).

[@UnfinishedProjectDartSport]

🥓

[@BrucePierson]

Your audio was very low at the start when you were in the car. If you use a remote microphone it would fix the issue. You could even record the audio on a different device to the video and then mix it in when editing. You are really good with Shotcut, so it would be easy for you to do. For me, video editing is above my pay grade and I can only do simple things like cutting clips and joining clips together and boosting audio.

[@fitzeesfabrications]

I never used the mic that day for intro. Should turned it up a bit. My bad

[@steptoeandson3554]

Re title video with correct grammar for "pedal" Thanks

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Done.. tanks! Lol

[@DomManInT1]

This was painful to watch.

[@georgebettiol8338]

A lot less painful than hitting a tree because you can't generate the required 'leg strength' to effectively brake the car.