@@timniu784 but the Phonetics are consistently clear. I find many Chinese form mainland China as well as hua qiao are confus ed differentiating between these two consonants. L- voiced dental N- voiceless, nasal that is definitely so but I m not sure about their use of the r and j phonetics. I take it that ren is correct with the r consonant and the rolled tongue voiceless phonetic and je using the dental fricative j phonetic is the correct pronunciation??? l find some mainland speakers saying j'en for man and re for hot.