Ed over at C90Adventures can surely tell all the problems to be had with one of these. He’s doing a series of riding one to Moab.
@Telemachus2814 Жыл бұрын
Nice to see another fan! Final episode this weekend!
@infango Жыл бұрын
I wonder how long until his engine will blow up ?
@boomhauertv17 Жыл бұрын
Final episode was great! Watching Willie on this adventure was great!!
@glennschlorf1285 Жыл бұрын
@@infangohes already replaced it
@bmjhurley Жыл бұрын
Was gonna say the same thing lol
@GrilledCheeseMouth Жыл бұрын
I know exactly what the problem is. If you take the boots off the rack and pinion, you will find one side has an extra plastic spacer/stopper. you need to cut one of them off. I was dumb enough to buy one of these. Lol.
@Todd_G_FPV Жыл бұрын
Is it good for anything? Lol
@HA05GER Жыл бұрын
A youtuber did hundreds of miles on one so can't be that bad I believe C90 adventures
@Todd_G_FPV Жыл бұрын
@HA05GER I watched that, looked a bit rough lol
@buysncharge Жыл бұрын
@Todd_Gerhardt you can put a harbor freight predator into it. It's a pit vehicle. Mostly like a golf cart
@mondude9754 Жыл бұрын
@@HA05GERit was pretty bad tbh it snapped the frame and swingarm separately
@Bludduck Жыл бұрын
This is how to fix the steering, remove both tie rods put the steering in the middle and adjust the tie rods to fit back in with the wheels straight. Tons of KZbin videos on how to fix this Jeep
@travislapham3479 Жыл бұрын
Tyler what you could do is just strip the whole thing down to a metal frame and then rebuild it to your liking
@NoahCooper-ok9hz Жыл бұрын
LS swap it
@Wheelman1966 Жыл бұрын
I believe the reason it turns to the right better is because you're sitting over the left tire. It gives the left side more traction. As a kid I had a Powerwheels Jeep and noticed the same issue.
@contraband1543 Жыл бұрын
More weight on the left would make it turn to the left if the suspension was set perfectly straight. The tie rods are not set correctly. It's just a gokart with a fiberglass body.
@TheBhill Жыл бұрын
You really can't compare hard plastic wheels to tires.
@nickbob2003 Жыл бұрын
@@contraband1543it’s a golf cart with a 4 wheeler engine lol what could go wrong
@chalupamsf Жыл бұрын
It’s a live axle
@TheBhill Жыл бұрын
@@chalupamsf I'm not sure how I missed that but I'm confident that you're entirely correct.
@embroiledalive5232 Жыл бұрын
Did anyone think that Left and Right turning looked exactly the same?
@charlesstewart4832 Жыл бұрын
It was the same
@Thetraxxasguu Жыл бұрын
Me
@jamesharris9894 Жыл бұрын
I did also
@snowballil3133 Жыл бұрын
Was the same
@mattbooth85 Жыл бұрын
Lol I said it out loud
@zachbrins00 Жыл бұрын
I am absolutely here for Tyler’s mechanic work videos! ✊🏼
@THEMANWITHTHEYELLOWHAT. Жыл бұрын
Same I fined it somewhat therapeutic
@jefa3524 Жыл бұрын
Dude can’t even use a popcorn maker, so excited to see how this is gonna go. 😂
@napsolo3453 Жыл бұрын
@@jefa3524 I think Tyler was Diesel Mechanic before youtube, so he might know a thing or two about cars.
@masondipple2650 Жыл бұрын
@@jefa3524he was a diesel mechanic. Maybe not a thing or two about cars but throw a Cummins in this bad boy and he’ll have her fixed
@levimartin2949 Жыл бұрын
@@napsolo3453 yeah that explains why he was tightening the ball joint to infinite foot pounds of torque lol that's why he is not a diesel mechanic anymore. He was fire for breaking stuff lol not true but wouldn't surprise me lol and I am not bashing him. He knows his way around a vehicle, but the dude needs to know certain things are not ment to be tightened that much
@charlesw.3245 Жыл бұрын
Who wants to see a 3 day solo overlanding survival trip using only wish survival gear?
@juiced311 Жыл бұрын
Like having a real Jeep! The Jeep experience.
@vacountryboylifestyle5097 Жыл бұрын
Your ball joint is fine. It's the play in the control arm that is loose
@poshhippie6446 Жыл бұрын
The 13mm and 14mm thing is because most people don't have two 13mm wrenches. I find it very convenient
@imdaprophet Жыл бұрын
Never thought of it like that. Well said.
@i_eat_dirt2 Жыл бұрын
when you need 2 13 mm wrenches that's when you ask your buddy for one if you don't have 2
@superguest3 Жыл бұрын
Ah that's why you have an adjustable wrench
@i_eat_dirt2 Жыл бұрын
@@superguest3 my thing about adjustable wrenches is that you have a higher chance of rounding a bolt off
@michaellong4897 Жыл бұрын
I like the old Gator Grip. They’re sold under a different name now I think. I have an original one tho. They fit any nut ranging from a 6mm- 18mm and anything in between. No stripping because of the design.
@HiiTYDUB Жыл бұрын
To fix the steering you need to take the rack n pinion off and center it before you put it back in
@shane012504 Жыл бұрын
Tyler use two tape measures and adjust the tierods so they have the same number on both tapes. In front of tire and rear of tire plus use a 6 foot level or a drywall square from front tires to rear tires to square all four tires up and it will be 100% aligned!
@KevinBurnham-eh7hv Жыл бұрын
Yes, exactly what I thought about commenting but instead of levels string 😂 levels seem smarter
@antonknast Жыл бұрын
You would put a 13 mm on one side an a 14 mm on the other side because a lot of people have one set of tools at home. It looks like that Jeep is mostly scrap so i'm impresed they at least thougt of that haha!
@skeeningprofessional Жыл бұрын
It’s made from 3 different Chinese children’s ATVs
@jamesbeemer2477 Жыл бұрын
Use a degree finder at the steering wheel to find center. Full Left and right you might half to do a little math to find true center. Once you figure out center of the rack do your left tie rod first then your right then put the steering wheel on straight. Some of the Chinese racks do have too many spacers on one side. Some of them have a center mark on the back if the rack from the shaft to the housing. Some times there just plane defected with a short adjustment from one side to another right at the tie rod because the threaded part is too short. I had a go cart do the same thing. Bought two defective racks and had to use something to find the degree left and right it wasn’t perfect but it worked better then guessing.
@frankfuller975 Жыл бұрын
Yikes at that battery, that's nightmarishly dangerous, you're lucky there wasn't a fire from it.
@UnrivaledPiercer Жыл бұрын
I think the 13mm on one side and 14mm on another is so if you only have one wrench of each size that you don't get stuck in a situation of not being able to tighten it. That way you can grab both wrenches from your box and actually accomplish something, rather than be short a wrench if you don't have extras.
@frikkiesmit327 Жыл бұрын
That makes sense. Cause not everyone has 2 of the same size
@diablokiller3000 Жыл бұрын
The throttle cable needs to be secured to the frame not to move so bad.
@RamoArt Жыл бұрын
He's supposed to be a mechanic but this video still has that "what's a sweet potato?" vibe
@TheKurtTribute Жыл бұрын
He’s that mechanic that no amount of training can help, bahahaha
@brandonford7628 Жыл бұрын
Nailed it. He honestly has no idea.
@oilybrakes Жыл бұрын
I was just as surprised/shocked.
@angrybigfoot752 Жыл бұрын
Gotta be a diesel tech or large equipment tech small stuff can be foreign to us haha
@crimsonemperor2219 Жыл бұрын
@@angrybigfoot752 pretty sure he mentioned in a Q&A on the main channel he was a Diesel Mechanic
@chris6owens Жыл бұрын
"I hate cotter pins" he says as he uses a wire cutter to try to straighten one and pull it out, instead of a pair of pliers like a normal person. :D
@bwc1976 Жыл бұрын
Great to see you truly in your element, getting all analytical and mechanical.
@jeep2003 Жыл бұрын
Are we watching the same video?
@mrdeathscrn Жыл бұрын
I almost spit out my coffee seeing how the brake caliper hit the shocks! That is no bueno good sir, not one bit! That will make the caliper "reset" each time they hit (the cylinder will compress during long turns making so you will have to pump the brake to get back too "both pads touching" which is super duper dangerous!) So what i would do is adjust the top and bottom ball joint "main bolts" (the parts that are connected to the chassis, not the wheel assembly) so that the whole wheel assembly gets further out, adjust the steering rack pins so that the brake caliper does not interfere with the shocks, shim up the "driver POW right side" top ball joint arm so it does not rock back and forth (your atempt to tighten the balljoint was futile seeing it SHOULD be free moving but the top linkage arm is meant to hold the assembly from backwards/forwards movement, hence why they almost always are A shaped) TL;DR this is like buying a second hand LEGO set that the guy before you where drunk while assembling, all the pieces are there.. but not correctly put together
@michaelmoore7975 Жыл бұрын
Could it be the knuckle assemblies are on the wrong sides? Because the design of all other wheeled vehicles have the calipers on the trailing side instead of the leading side. In other words, the calipers on the front wheels should be at the back of the assembly and the calipers on the rear wheels are towards the front. The locations are engineered to increase brake efficiency. If the brake calipers on the front are facing forward the torque of the braking causes "lift" on the front tire contact area, decreasing the friction needed to stop. The front wheel calipers facing the rear of the car causes "dive" under braking., increasing the friction. The rear wheel calipers facing the front also causes "dive". The differences are because of the relationship of the weight of the car in respect to the caliper location. In other words the front calipers have all the weight behind them. The rear calipers have all the weight in front of them. Also the momentum and direction with the kinetic energy respective to vehicle weight is a factor.
@-Jethro- Жыл бұрын
Make yourself a backrest pillow with your Amazon sewing machine. 👍
@diablokiller3000 Жыл бұрын
I would say take it back and try another jeep lol
@StillShatter Жыл бұрын
I think the reason the bolt was a 14m and the nut is a 13m is incase you are working with one set of wrenches your not gonna have two 14s...though I don't know a single person who works on cars and what not that only owns one set of wrenches or sockets 😂😂
@bairfamilyfarm1336 Жыл бұрын
I think the only thing I have one of is 10mm, and every torx bit inbetween the sizes I actually need!
@StillShatter Жыл бұрын
@@bairfamilyfarm1336 exactly!!! Multiples of everything but 10's🤣🤣 if you ask the pain in the ass engineers im sure there answer would be if you only had one set on hand 🤣
@ksavage681 Жыл бұрын
True, haha, I have like 4 sets.
@oilybrakes Жыл бұрын
I have only one set of everything, because I don't have a garage, live in a shared flat and keep my tools and parts to work on my car in the car... Makes sense, no?
@StillShatter Жыл бұрын
@@oilybrakes But I would assume you have a set of wrenches and a set of sockets so that means you would have two 14's or 13's and would be able to successfully tighten the bolt. I originally said if you only had ONE set of WRENCHES OR SOCKETS on hand....Makes sense, no?
@americansmark Жыл бұрын
You have a loose wheel bearing and likely a loose connecting arm as well. That would explain the turning issue and wheel wobble.
@derekkinsella2343 Жыл бұрын
It looks like to me the problem is play in the steering box itself when u had it turned all the way to the right drop the tie rod off the hub and pull it in and out just to see if there is play ,check both sides while ur at it, nice video bud 👍
@keyper555 Жыл бұрын
You have a good base model to work with, now its time for upgrades and modifications to make it what you want, there are so many ways to improve this jeep, I know if I owned one the first thing my mind would do is start to figure out ways to improve things on it and what kind of upgrades I would do to suit the environment of where I will like to take it. I love to do mods and change things to make things work better or more to my liking. Enjoy your jeep, and make it Yours.
@jamesortega2340 Жыл бұрын
One side is 13 mm and the other is 14 mm, just in case you have only one set of wrenches.
@__Under_Pressure__ Жыл бұрын
If you have a welder, you could weld up some brackets to make the seat closer
@TwiLightVids Жыл бұрын
Tyler the diesel mechanic working on an automobile!
@paultro8457 Жыл бұрын
I couldn't help but notice below the banjo bolt on the brake caliper, It looked like there may have been an adjustable bump stop on the control arm/knuckle? Gotta love buying new sh¡t and having to work on it before using it.
@Behemoth33 Жыл бұрын
Tyler. . . I CAN see the issue all the way from here😂😂 Adjust both upper and lower ball joints on the left-hand side(standing in front of the jeep) because the left is a lot closer than the right. So if you adjust it where the knuckle is further away from the shocks, then your turning will be sorted too as it won't bump into the shock so quickly
@antonknast Жыл бұрын
Also look up Ackermann my dude, that will show you that the "outer" wheel turning more than the inner wheel is bad
@crimsonemperor2219 Жыл бұрын
Tyler bought himself an A Grade Chineseium death trap 😂
@dextermorgan4337 Жыл бұрын
It was definitely assembled by someone who didn't care
@brabman7 Жыл бұрын
My folks have a coleman 550 from TSC, it's a great machine if you understand you're buying a side by side that was assembled the same way as a bicycle at Walmart. If you have basic mechanical skills and understand most of these chinesium knocks can be crossed referanced to "real" parts they are great machines for the money
@david-gi9yl Жыл бұрын
I would say try shifting you weight to the other side when turning and see if that makes a difference , also on some old go carts only one rear wheel pulls so it turns better in one direction better than the other
@tylerwinstonmassey Жыл бұрын
I have one of these jeeps. Mine is the ice bear one. I live in the mountains where you can ride dirtbikes and quads on the street. I rode mine on dirtbike trails. I use it to pull a little trailer and haul firewood around my property. I use it to pull my log splitter. It seats 2 adults. The steering wheel and shifter are short so kids can drive it too. Duh. I put LED headlights, air horn, and ammo can tool box on mine. When I drive it to the gas station or grocery store people gather around to tell me it’s cool and ask questions about it. Definitely a chick magnet. I traded a Honda XR100 for it on Facebook market. Best trade I ever made.
@mattfox1181 Жыл бұрын
Loved this video! I would love to see more like this, and hope you continue to update us
@jefa3524 Жыл бұрын
An educated, guess would be they limit your left-hand turning to prevent rollovers as a safety feature.
@shane012504 Жыл бұрын
Tyler also swap your front brake calipers and the stoppers will be upside down and they wont hit the bolts will still line up and you cab still bleed them out with the brake lines
@michaelmoore7975 Жыл бұрын
Could it be the knuckle assemblies are on the wrong sides? Because the design of all other wheeled vehicles have the calipers on the trailing side instead of the leading side. In other words, the calipers on the front wheels should be at the back of the assembly and the calipers on the rear wheels are towards the front. The locations are engineered to increase brake efficiency. If the brake calipers on the front are facing forward the torque of the braking causes "lift" on the front tire contact area, decreasing the friction needed to stop. The front wheel calipers facing the rear of the car causes "dive" under braking., increasing the friction. The rear wheel calipers facing the front also causes "dive". The differences are because of the relationship of the weight of the car in respect to the caliper location. In other words the front calipers have all the weight behind them. The rear calipers have all the weight in front of them. Also the momentum and direction with the kinetic energy respective to vehicle weight is a factor.
@seraphimvalkyrin4543 Жыл бұрын
I would actually like to buy one of these disassembled and build it myself.
@RealMelodyBlue Жыл бұрын
Remove that seat and make your own and suit it as best you can for your height
@wowzanpakutou Жыл бұрын
6:00 That makes sense to me, if you're repairing in the field with a standard toolkit, you're not going to have two 13's. A 13 and a 14 though~
@allenbushar3169 Жыл бұрын
you should just pull the front end and put one that's a little bigger and you can adjust better. and make it a bigger wheelbase it would be a little safer as well. also you should just rebuild it and show us what it can be.
@NonCrateRare Жыл бұрын
@TylerTube Too Maybe try putting spacers on the hubs?
@matts6foot851 Жыл бұрын
Those front shocks are adjustable btw. Turn that silver sleeve near the bottom and it will adjust preload. In other words softer or stiffer suspension.
@philiph1802 Жыл бұрын
Seems like lots of things are made to turn better to one side. I can think of like riding mowers with a steering wheel, go carts, and apparently whatever that thing you bought. Could be because they want you to turn that way for either mowing or circle track but that's a guess.
@jonesfarm1836 Жыл бұрын
My man Tyler buying premium Chinese junk and expecting a premium German made BMW or something 😂 love the little jeep. Should take it mudding! Lol
@Braxel_ Жыл бұрын
That thing looks cool but mechanically looks like a accident waiting to happen with out fixing. The play on the hub is because that upper "A-arm" is not even a A-arm but just a rod and offers no side to side support. The balljoint on the bottom should be on on top of the hole like the upper arm/ball joint is. That way its near impossible for it to pop out since the weight is pushed into it instead of pulled. With enough force even not worn out it can pop out and run over its own wheel. Steering max angle can maybe be fixed by moving the hub closer or further to clear or create more space for the brake caliper and the horribly placed shock. And probably center the steeringbox so left and right are the same by adjusting the steering tie rods.
@MrNobody91 Жыл бұрын
Has anyone seen c90adventures video literally driving like to Moab on this mini Jeep? It’s a good couple videos for sure, if you haven’t, I recommend you do. It’s deff worth the watch.
@TheNexusChan Жыл бұрын
Left and right wobble is usually tie rods. Up, down, left or right, are usually ball joint issues
@adeandbobthecatfulltimenom3567 Жыл бұрын
the issue you have is that it is a fixed drive to the rear axle, so no diff this make the jeep wants to push forward like some quad bike so for you to turn one rear wheel needs to slip in order for you to turn, as you are sitting on the left side it then make it difficult to turn left. if you were to sit in the center i think it would turn both ways the same .hope this helps
@biggrizz4447 Жыл бұрын
Glad I'm a welder fabricator I can all the problems myself including the reaching problems and the seat problems
@3duckit Жыл бұрын
Just FYI and this is not gospel but charge your battery to 12v before the trickle charger. I made the same mistake and Almost burned my garage down. There is a burn mark that reminds me every time I walk in the garage. I did not read my chargers warning and yeah…. Great video!
@emustorage6769 Жыл бұрын
You should ask @rainmanray for help. I swear he is the best mechanic on KZbin and works on jeeps. Would be an amazing collaboration video!
@MattiAntsuK Жыл бұрын
Most metric bolts and screws have a bigger nut than the head of the screw. Probably because some people dont wanna buy a full set. So they just buy the wrenches from sizes 4 to 32mm. And about the steering, the inside wheel will always turn more sharp than the outside. If you steer left and right while only looking at the drivers wheel, ofcourse its gonna look off. In my opinion the steering angle doesn't look that bad. Maybe 3-5° of.
@Pnwrcaddict Жыл бұрын
Pull the tie rods off the knuckles, turn the wheel side to side to find center and reattach. After that then you can fine tune the alignment
@HughWoo Жыл бұрын
I love cotter pins. The trick is, NEVER TRY TO RE USE THEM!!! They’re not meant to be reused!
@Dug159 Жыл бұрын
Well… in reference to one side being 13mm and the other being 14mm…. It’s really very simple. A regular run of the mill spanner set one comes with one of each size. 🤣
@VixFury Жыл бұрын
What a nightmare, I would have suggested that you try using the warranty or returning for another one
@keiths1665 Жыл бұрын
Camber in at top and camber out at bottom will give you a better turning radius, like a F1 car or go-cart.
@thesausage351 Жыл бұрын
Grind the bump stop off. Saves a lot of time.
@bigreeny70 Жыл бұрын
The problem is your upper control arm is moving not the ball joint it needs more bracing to keep the ball joint solid then the spindle won’t roll
@brianwalden5734 Жыл бұрын
Tyler grease the joints if they can be. It might help
@nickbrick21 Жыл бұрын
3:50 the right tool: pliers, the tool he uses: wire cutter.
@bloosher03 Жыл бұрын
Even mini jeeps have problems within 2 mins of owning one
@diablokiller3000 Жыл бұрын
I think I can buy shifter extensions might want to check it out.
@jeffs6691 Жыл бұрын
Need a video on your endro bike now😂
@TheRealWYNRS Жыл бұрын
Alignment. 1 word. It needs it. Thatll fix most of your issues.
@scottgrinder2638 Жыл бұрын
First off Tyler I wouldn’t bother with the go cart ones tho they are pretty crappy as far as build quality goes, they do look nice. Just Empty Every Pocket. Course, I probably shouldn’t talk too loud, I own a 2006 TJ Jeep Rubicon…. On a brighter note, if you get an actual Jeep the build quality is a lot better, fun to tinker with. -Scott
@tarac53428 ай бұрын
My 97 year old grandpa just bought himself one of these from tractor supply … I have a cool grandpa 😊
@back-to-new Жыл бұрын
Adjust the upper and lower knuckle outward😊
@ahow80176 ай бұрын
The reason they use different sizes for the nut and bolt is so you do not have to have two sets of tools to complete the job. A lot of import cars are like that.
@WhatsCookinToday Жыл бұрын
The steering box gears weren’t centered when they installed the column and whatever they’re using as a pitman arm. Remove the pitman arm, put the box gears at center, reinstall the pitman arm and straighten the steering wheel. They did a poor job assembling the Jeep, is all.
@missie123briggs Жыл бұрын
It's funny how you don't know what a sweet potato is and you can fix a jeep 🤣🤣🤣
@makaiCulp Жыл бұрын
Things made for shaq 😂
@jbsthegamer Жыл бұрын
Check EVERY screw and bolt and make sure they are all tight Might fall apart if not
@applesauceisgood32 Жыл бұрын
Can't wait for this video!
@Cody2nd Жыл бұрын
I need to see someone put a race quad motor and trans in one of these and upgrade the chassis to handle it all….thing would be an absolute demon.
@camw84 Жыл бұрын
i work in aviation. i take out cotter pins daily. i know your pain lol
@jrrarglblarg9241 Жыл бұрын
Steering harder to one side than the other can be a feature, not a bug, for circle-track rentals.
@michaelhines1891 Жыл бұрын
Buy another one for parts you know your gonna need them anyway.
@keithlefebre94016 ай бұрын
A 13 millimeter and a 14 mm is actually pretty cool as most people have one of each
@heli-man- Жыл бұрын
I think you have a lot to learn about mechanics and how things work
@masonhilliard5803 Жыл бұрын
Usually when bolts are different sizes on each side it’s so you can fix it with one tool kit if you have to
@seefolstrom3825 Жыл бұрын
Check the control arms driver side shock at the bottom looks like it points out more then the passengers side for the steering
@waynemackenziesr50057 ай бұрын
well ya know, ya could just remount the shock OR swap spindles to the other side but shock mount would be my first guess.
@AllDay3090 Жыл бұрын
Literally every vehicle every made makes sharper right turns than left turns because of the where the steering wheel is placed in the vehicle. They even put stickers on semi trucks because it's much more exaggerated in a bigger vehicle like that.
@stevehoppe3488 Жыл бұрын
It’s called Alignment. Tighten the throttle cable
@mCblue79 Жыл бұрын
Its both horrifying and funny watching this. Love you mate 😊
@Floofie_boi Жыл бұрын
You are super lucky that battery did not light on fire in your garage, I have a neighbor whose garage lit on fire when he was charging his motorcycle battery when it must have swelled and popped. Thankfully his garage was not attached to his house so is house was mostly okay with just siding damage.
@Realtadams Жыл бұрын
@donut could do some crazy awesome stuff with this!
@MikesGarage96 Жыл бұрын
5:58 they are two different size hex head on one fastener, designed with in mind that the consumers that buy this are not going to be very mechanically inclined. The average joe may only have one set of wrenches and nothing else. Them being two different sizes allows you to work on it if you only have one set of wrenches 😂
@dakotadennett6979 Жыл бұрын
Rack and pinion, you can pull the shaft off and re-center the rack
@dakotadennett6979 Жыл бұрын
The tie rods you are adjusting is only for alignment 😂
@Jayknifemaker Жыл бұрын
Just shorten the bump stops. Easy. Grinde them down or cut them and smooth them over.
@cmndr6494 Жыл бұрын
Was the battery in there originally also an agm battery? If so, using a standard charger will cause the battery damage and could explode like that or worse
@halidron2 Жыл бұрын
Never In my life have I had that problem..
@cmndr6494 Жыл бұрын
@@halidron2 it’s happened at the diesel shop. Pulling them out of a semi to try reconditioning and hooking up to just our regular charger ended up frying them. AGM’s prefer the low amperage side charging and with that little battery even trickle charge could be too much amperage if not designed to be charged on it. Just saying from experiences
@JasPlun Жыл бұрын
Saw 2 today and they halted selling them for now due to some battery issues and some other problems that cropped up on them. At my local Tractor Supply.
@SJ-0044 Жыл бұрын
Tyler showing off his skills
@FlyGuyRy94 Жыл бұрын
I mean the front of it is all smashed up lol I can’t help but think that thing is twisted or parts of the steering are Atleast. Even if it’s not super obvious