Fixing the D&D 5e Spores Druid | Nerd Immersion

[@Circadian_Wolf]

The reason circle of spores get circle spells is because it grants them access to thematic spells they wouldn’t otherwise have, like animate dead. Druids already get a good number of spells and have a well varied spell list, many more than sorcerers especially if using the class variant spells. I don’t think circle spells should become the norm for druids.

[@illoney5663]

I think having circle spells for specific subclasses could be nice. And if they don't want to just give them extra known spells, having it function like the warlock in that they get spells added to their spell list would be an option.

[@johnlaremy3592]

druids are casters, unless you build them melee. thats basically my philosophy. moon is a beast that smaccs. spores is the closest to being a hybrid of both but RAW I only deal more than like 13 dpr if I make myself a skeleton horde that attacks for free, 10d12 with +4 to hit and disadvantage from 300 feet away for free.

[@nickolasmorin5600]

My fix to this subclass was to allow the Halo of Spore due half dmg on a successful save, made Halo of Spores and Symbiotic entity do just necrotic damage, and made Entity last full duration or until unconcious, removing the part where it ends if temp hp is gone. I increased the range of creating the 1hp zombie to 30ft (wasn't broken in play test).

[@firebringeraxel]

The only problem with half damage on success is it still pollutes the game with constant saving throws.

[@nickolasmorin5600]

@@firebringeraxel during the game I ran we had little issues with the save every combat, as dm I just remembered the characters DC when they used it. It slowed things, but by very little. Small sacrifice to make for the fun my player got out of the abilty.

[@snazzyfeathers]

Or and this could be a hot take you just give the Druid their damage.....poison isn't that great to begin with and a CON save is one of the worst saves to target mid to late levels...its not that much damage to begin with anyways AND it costs a reaction...

[@pockets8548]

Maybe have a way to use spell slots to gain more temp hp while in your entity so you can focus on your melee based druid

[@aurae69]

i think poison is handled very badly by 5e (and DND in general), since poisons in real life are wildly different and have wildly different mechanisms of action, it's way too simplistic to bundle all poisons into a single category "poison" and then have it as the most commonly-resisted damage type.

[@johnlaremy3592]

underrated comment

[@aurae69]

the changes i'd advocate would be: * allow the druid to choose between necrotic or poison damage on each spore application * SE damage procs on any melee attack, not "melee weapon attack" (IMHO a quite stupid restriction). * no Con save (slows game down too much) * SE transformation lasts for up to half your druid level in hours.

[@captainthorrek262]

Personally, I'd either have the halo of spores do flat damage, or get rid of the save. It'll only drag out combat with all the rolling.

[@Lanaestra]

You can literally run the entire game with flat damage if you really wanted, having it piecemeal on one ability seems weird to me.

[@captainthorrek262]

@@Lanaestra I wouldn't be able to do flat damage all the time... it'd seem to me like it's trying to copy Battletech somehow.

[@MrVGamerV]

1 extra save per turn wouldn't bog down combat 2 much

[@captainthorrek262]

@@MrVGamerV it'd be two rolls for one character though. I can picture 40K'ing the rolls and having the player roll both the damage and the opponent's roll

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Flat damage = (half the dice sides + 1) x number of dice. If you want to run it for specific things to save time, that's an easy option. Sometimes, I use it when I have a ton of monsters to manage.

[@andsoooo]

In regards to the book version, Halo of Spores is an ability that you get at 2nd level along with Symbiotic entity. Symbiotic entity says you CAN use a use of beast shape to activate it. It doesn't replace beast shape. So you could be a wolf at lvl 2 with a 10 foot reaction forcing a con save of 1d4 necrotic (that is if you are one of those believers of the druid/barbarian using rage as a bear.) Which you could also beast shape into something small like a spider or a rat, stick to a ceiling or hide, and force con saves to get people coughing to empty a room. The reason the spores ability dice are so low is because if you do activate Symbiotic Entity the dice double and you have access to it at such a low level. So lvl 10 druid, 40 temp hp, 2d8 necrotic reaction con save, along with the ability to seed a 10 ft cube 30 ft away with spores on top of having access to spells. The class is pretty powerful in it's own right especially if you multiclass. Dex Fighter/Spore druid with Symbiotic entity turns you into a temp hp tank with additional 1d6 poison on your attacks. And if I have to be honest I rarely use my reaction. I've played a character to lvl 20 and could count the total number of times I've used my reaction on both my hands, druids typically don't have access to counter spell.

[@cweele]

So the circle of the moon druid (a subclass that many consider to be the best in the game and that a couple of competent DMs that ran campaigns I was in had banned for being too game breakingly powerful) needs to get circle spells because a subclass that is too weak for you to consider viable without giving it a power boost gets them? Huh? What? Now that makes absolutely no sense. The only thing I see that the printed spore druid needs to be viable is to drop the line from symbiotic entity about lasting until the temp hit points are used. Make it the 10 minutes or until reduced to 0 hit points and this subclass (with its extra spells) is very capable.

[@mr.weaver6742]

Yeah I agree, I don't think the moon druid necessarily needs extra spells. Maybe just give some more love to the Circle of Land.

[@mayhemivory5730]

The thing with circle spells is now about the number of spells known, so yes, it should be equal among subclasses. It’s mostly for the theme and it won’t make the class any stronger in in most cases. It’s dependent on which spells those are and it’s not like the moon druid will just get spiritual weapon for no reason. I don’t really see the moon druid as too strong either. It’s strong shure, but not so much that you would have to ban it. That’s on your DMs and just because you consider them competent does not mean it’s much of an argument. It’s an example at most.

[@cweele]

Why should the number of spells known be equal among the different subclasses? It hasn't been that way ever. The moon druid has always had fewer spells known than some of the other druids, heck the eldritch knight knows a whole lot more spells than the champion does, should they know the same number of spells? They are different subclasses of the same class. I didn't say that I thought the moon druid was too strong just that there were people who do. And as to the DMs I spoke of, I did not say that they were great, I didn't even say that they were good. I said that they were competent, you know the bare minimum for being able to run a successful campaign, could tell a story, interpreted the rules in a consistent (not necessarily good or bad interpretations, just consistent) way and could handle the curve balls the players threw at them on the fly, you know... competent.

[@mayhemivory5730]

@@cweele Well it is the case for Bard, Cleric, Warlock and Wizard, and for a long time it has been the same for the Sorcerer. Land Druid being the special subclass that gets extra spells is fine, but now that there are others that also do, it would fair if the others do as well. I am not saying that the Moon Druid has to have subclass spells, I'm fine with that one being the exception that does not. But the other subclasses should at least fit some type of form, you know what I mean? And as for your 'argument' about the Eldrich Knight, you do realise that is a 'Third-Caster', right? I'm talking about 'Full-Casters'. Why would a class that cannot cast spells get access to spells, that doesn't even make sence.

[@dwreanchinotan]

how to fix classes that deal poison damage nerf poison resistance

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Creating a new resistance mechanic just for poison would be an irritating complexity. Easier to just increase the amount of damage done by poison effects, which is balanced by it doing not much or nothing to many creatures.

[@dwreanchinotan]

@@Dennis-vh8tz or just remove poison resistance to creatures who may only be immune/resistant to their own poison.

[@chameleonx9253]

I like the mixed damage types since it synergizes with the flavor of the class they're going for. The Golgari are Green/Black, so mixing Poison and Necrotic damage reinforces that image, as well as being mechanically stronger.

[@NerdImmersion]

I still standby the fact that the zombies you raise with you spores shouldn't be able to be killed by your spores. (If the damage is necrotic, you could kill them with your Spreading Spores)

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Honestly the way turn order works, and undead fortitude work the 1 hp zombies are fine. If a creature dies in the spore cloud it's a reaction to raise them, then the turn order comes back around to the druid who can use their bonus action to move the cloud, then the zombie's turn starts and it only takes the necrotic damage if the druid didn't move the cloud, and it failed the con save from the spores, and it failed the 5+the damage undead fortitude save. That's two saves the zombie has +3 on and the second is only going to be a DC of 9 to 12 on average.

[@riccardocorradini6713]

why keeping poison damage? this subclass is too reliant on the worse tipe of damage in the game...chances are that a poison base halo of spores is going to be unused most of the time. why not make it necrotic with the official dice progression? or maybe Acid? all in all, necrotic fits the theme of the class much more being tied to the Golgari Guild of Ravnica..

[@agr0nianTV]

That or maybe have an ability that your spores make ignore enemy poison resistance and poison immunity turns into resistance. By specifying enemy your zombies would be safe from AoE spores.

[@Stormeris]

I honestly think the Spores Druid should get Poison immunity, just to be immune to your own Spore cloud. But yeah, they need to errata the old subclasses to get their own extra spells, not just Druids, but the Sorcerers and others too

[@aurae69]

disagree that all druid circles should automatically get circle spells. moon druid is a martial-based circle (vs a caster circle like land), i think it's perfectly fine not to get extra spells. extra spells should be added only when it fits the theme of the sub-class and to augment the intended playstyle of the sub-class, eg: additional fire spells for wildfire druid

[@tomaspabon2484]

What are your thoughts on spell lists for non-preparation casters like rangers, sorcerers or bards?

[@aurae69]

@@tomaspabon2484 i think free access to spells is a fantastic way to easily differentiate classes/subclasses and give them flavour, but i don't want to see it overused. i think there needs to be an equal amount of new and interesting subclass mechanics, like moon druid wildshape or sorceror metamagic.

[@aaronsummers2292]

Question: I know your a little burned out on the top 10 magic items lists but, will you do your personal favorite list, or a list of your player's favorite items?

[@NerdImmersion]

Yup, I definitely will

[@dragonhearthx8369]

Here are my ideas: Get rid of the spell DC. Turn it all poison damage. At a later level, poison damage done by this subclass ignore resistance and immunity becomes resistance.

[@pockets8548]

Also remember that if you have the entity up your halo of spores would do double damage and your spreading spores uses the halo damage (and you need the entity up to use it in the first place) but with the new one you dont need to have entity up

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

The caster subclasses getting access to thematic spells the class doesn't usually have mostly need require that feature for the subclass to make sense thematically. My ideas: 1. Halo of Spores of spores shouldn't require a reaction, all creatures entering or starting their turn in the area take poison damage and must make a Constitution save or be poisoned. The damage could start at 1 or 1d4 (whichever works better for balance) and increase with level. For a cloud of mould, poison damage probably makes more sense here then necrotic and widespread resistance and immunity to poison reigns in an otherwise over powered ability. 2. Symbiotic Entity looses the re-roll on Halo of Spores damage because I just made Halo of Spores more powerful. It shouldn't end when the temporary hit points are expended. The number of temporary hit points could be tweaked for balance, either 2 - 4 times level, or 1 - 2 times level plus 1d8. 3. Fungal Infestion applies to creatures killed by your Halo of Spores and creatures poisoned by your Halo of Spores which subsequently die (by any cause that leaves a body) within your sight. No need to limit it to humanoids and beasts as undead, elementals, etc. will be immune to the Halo of Spores poison damage and condition. The Wisdom modifier limit makes sense to me, if for no other reason than an army of zombies would slow down the game too much. 4. Spreading Spores moves your Halo of Spores so instead of being centred on your square it is centered on any square within 30 feet. Halo of Spores area remains the same (within 10' of the chosen centre point). 5. A list of thematic wild shape forms which either replaces or supplements the standard druid list would be a nice subclass feature.

[@r.0.b.429]

From what I’m seeing it seems like they tried to balance the Halo of Spores in relation to the Storm Herald Barbadian. Aura of ten feet, does a small amount of damage based on a reaction for a class that normally doesn’t use it, etc.. Without beefing it up with Symbiotic entity it has the capability to do two more damage than the desert though still requires a saving throw which desert doesn’t, though by beefing it up you gain the hit points, the damage on melee hit, and your spell has the capability to do two more damage than the sea’s lighting bolt reaction at the cost of having to juice it up. Though one thing to note is that while this is how it works at the beginning it actually scales worse than Storm Herald in damage the druid still gains an extra layer of hit points from wild shape while still being able to cast spells! True you’ll probably be using melee cantrips like booming blade or green flame blade but it gives you that option which I think is the class’s best strength. It’s a jack of all trades in combat. You could fight on the front lines a bit before taking a step back and letting your meat shields/other players take some hits while you cast some healing on them or maybe throw out a bit of offensive magic while still keeping some free damage on the field. Rather than simply focusing on front line, mid, or back you can actively switch your role in party combat when needed!

[@TaberIV]

I know everyone has talked about this one, but you should do Four Elements Monk I'd like to see your thoughts on that one

[@calbarog]

Yes, me too.

[@DesOttsel]

What I want from spores druid is a gish class similar to hexblade, bladesinger, or college of valor. I think the necrotic damage weapon damage should scale similar to clerics because that would make it stand out more from other druids and actually be able to take advantage of shillelagh and the length of symbiotic entity should scale as well.

[@Answerisequal42]

I actually made a variant version of spore druid that I use in my campaigns. The THP requirement is just horrible in vanilla. I made it so you gain increased AC instead of THP, you can summon a spore servant instead of a zombie with its own stat block and you can detonate the spore servant (that is immune to necrotic) to produce a halo of spores. I changed all damage to necrotic and instead of hurling spores you can enhance your spores with confusion, mind reading or dealing acid damage and reduce AC of creature inside it.

[@gregorygunn7508]

My DM and I changed the class a bit differently. We made it so I could chose between poison and necrotic damage for the melee and spore damage and traded the circle spells for a second melee attack at level 5. I was still allowed to take the circle spells that a druid wouldn't normally get but they weren't free with the exception of chill touch and I think raise dead.

[@Noanatsuka]

I agree. If they're going to add origin/subclass spells to one of them, they should go back and do it for ALL of them. Hell, they're guilty about that with Sorcerer, on top of a myriad of other "non cleric/wizard" classes. I'd also like some of these classes to get more "unique" spells like how Druid, Warlock and Cleric got. So atm... Players Handbook 2 when?

[@JCinLapel]

I want to see them bring back the twilight druid or as I like to call them the Drulock

[@wilhohanzo]

Would Land Druid then need just a tad bit more of a push to incentivise play because it would lose a lot of its uniqueness if all circles got circle spells? Like, for example, something to do with its Wild Shape.

[@NerdImmersion]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I originally thought maybe having the ability to get spell slots back tied to wild shape somehow. But wild shape recharging on short rest would make that too much

[@fyre4000]

I think the Fungal Infestation ability is a bit to important to be limited like that. I have it to where the maximum number of zombies you can have is equal to your Wisdom modifier, rather than just "you have [Wisdom modifier] zombies per long rest."

[@ObliviousNaga]

Just want to clarify something with the fix: would the spreading spores proc the zombie summon since it's your halo of spores?

[@NerdImmersion]

Yes, if a creature dies as a result it would

[@ObliviousNaga]

Another reason to convert the necrotic to poison

[@NerdImmersion]

@@ObliviousNaga yup!

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Okay, I think people have missed one important fact here. None of the Spore Druid class abilities can kill zombies. The GGtR specifically says " The Creature uses the Zombie Stat block in the Monster manual." Monster Manual Zombies have Undead Fortitude. No matter how many times they hit 0 HP they can't die unless they take radiant damage or someone rolls a crit. Halo of Spores and Spreading Spores can't crit. That's why they get Chill Touch for free. They need one sure thing that let's them kill/control undead. Realistically the only thing Spore Druid needs to bring all it's abilities together is Shillelagh and a high AC, and those limits are fixed by taking Shillelagh at level one and crafting Half Plate Armor and a Shield out of the carapace of one of the giant beetles or scorpions that lives beneath the streets of Ravnica.

[@MrVGamerV]

@@CitanulsPumpkin This is wrong. Zombies can absolutely die without it being radiant or crit. "Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." Radiant damage and crits just mean they don't have a chance to come back.

[@caleb4836]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I was not aware that the circle of spores Druid was considered weak. It would have been helpful for me if in the video you established some kind of baseline to contextualize why you were making the changes you were making. To me the changes seem arbitrary and unnecessary because I don’t understand the issues you have (and I guess the general community has) with this subclass.

[@nilsjonsson4446]

I agree. The Land Druid basically gets extra prepared spells, a cantrip and Natural Recovery. The Spore Druid gets extra spells, a cantrip, Halo of Spores, 1-hp-zombie reaction, and a Wild Shape use for combat (a lot of temp hp plus extra damage). That’s not at all a weak subclass.

[@MrVGamerV]

I have played a Circle of spores druid in a one-shot at level 3 and I found that since you usually wanna go in melee combat and since Symbiotic Entity is an action it was common that it would only be up for 1 or 2 turns. Which isn't really fun for the main ability of the subclass. Otherwise I found it good. Although still overshadowed by Moon Druid (it's way 2 strong compared to other druids)

[@nilsjonsson4446]

MrVGamerV Interesting. I’m making one for a new campaign right now and I’m excited about it. I’m planning on taking my third level in Arcana Cleric for a whole bunch of spells and Cantrips (including Booming and Green-Flame Blade).

[@samadams8533]

MrVGamerV yeah but circle of spores scales like crazy with level, and once your Druid gets into the 5-8 range or higher they shouldn’t be going into melee very often so the health shield is rather nice and the poison effects are great when dealing with people get too close

[@MrVGamerV]

@@samadams8533 Yeah maybe thats true I dont have any experience with the higher levels.

[@DMKen]

I don't always agree with you, but I always enjoy your videos and seeing your take on things.

[@saschahein6332]

Would Firebringeraxel's version of the subclass be overpowered if I tweaked it so that it only does necrotic damage instead of poison damage? I just think it fits the theme more

[@justuschurco4835]

What about this for the Halo of Spore and Symbiotic Entity: Keep all the damage necrotic Up the damage dice because no one likes d4s and do away with the Con save Make symbiotic entity last one minute and limit the number of times you can do it per long rest. Maybe that's too much, I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts

[@quietshift]

The way my group reworked this subclass was changing Symbiotic Entity to deal the poison damage with any melee hit and then the last feature we changed it to immunity to poison (so poison damage and condition). We really liked the Symbiotic Entity change since it allows other cantrips and attacks to work with it like primal savagery and for Lizardfolk bite attacks and whatnot

[@chrisgee8441]

I agree, Circle of Spores got nerfed way to hard... just here to say 4d4 does not have a max damage of 12. Otherwise; right on.

[@RevPirateDan]

As syluxdotcom pointed out, there is a *reason* they gave CoS Druids additional spells. What's more, your assertion that giving some (not all!) new subclasses additional spells means you have to go back and do the same for the old ones doesn't hold up as a necessity. I'm not saying "you're wrong!" I'm saying your logic doesn't make it a requirement, especially since they don't seem to be doing it with all the new ones. Basically, you're claiming they are making fundamental changes to how they do subclasses, which means they have to go back and re-do the original ones, and I'm saying you're logic is good, but your premise (that they're making this fundamental change) is, as yet, unproven. I'd also say that if they *were* doing what you're claiming, the best way to handle that would be to put the changes to the old subclasses in the new book. Yeah, it means a bunch more pages, but it clearly compartmentalizes the changes. Don't have the new books and aren't playing with them? Then you don't need to use the new versions of the old subclasses. And, no, Bards don't make up for it with Magical Secrets. Bards actually get screwed a lot on spells. Nobody notices because the *Class* is very versatile, and JoAT makes them at least a little decent at all Skills, but they don't get a lot of spells they should (why wouldn't they have Misty Step???) and get exactly ONE attack spell, at *13th* level. (Also, Vicious Mockery, one of the best spells in the game in terms of flavour, is really so-so in terms of mechanics. If it weren't for the awesome flavour, people would forget the spell exists.)

[@jackdunne6152]

I dunno... the class as is doesn't seem that bad. There's a nice mixed bag of tricks, and the flavor is cranked upbto eleven. As long as you like mushrooms. If you also take the Golgari agent background, you can start with a poisoner's kit. Go out, find some poisonous mushrooms and go to town making poisons.

[@DanteShadowfall]

Circle of Spores was nerfed into the dirt and I think they went too far. I'd have either removed the Con save and just let the d4 of damage go through(after all they have to be within 10 feet AND you burn your reaction...Or I'd have added casting stat to it maybe so when it does hit it actually hits. The main problem with it though is the fact that Con Saves are generally one of a monsters HIGHEST saves. -------- In my home game we left it at a d4 damage no save and then we further augmented it with "Unique Spores" not unlike battlemaster maneuvers that had a number of uses per long rest and that is where the saves came in.

[@timothyhanna6304]

Hey what’s your opinion on the way of the kensei monk?

[@NerdImmersion]

You know I've never sat down and re-analyzed it. I remember thinking that having an unarmed strike type attack mixed in with a weapon based monk didn't make a whole lot of sense. I think it's a decent multiclass with a fighter potentially...actually a made a video a long time ago comparing the published version to the UA version, that might hold you over until I get around to a Fixing video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZSuhKqMqbqofcU

[@AndrewRoberthome]

Necrotic damage is the rot.. makes sense.

[@Melix0ff]

Some math here: "Max damage is equal to arcana. 12 at max and 4d4"

[@firebringeraxel]

One other change I made Ted didn't mention is that you can still use your halo while the spore cloud is active, but doing so ends the cloud early. I also swapped o.e of the bonus spells.

[@SadBoi_1066]

I dont think the other druid classes need subclass spells. I honestly like that it was something of a feature for the land druid, which is more designed as a designated caster, combining elements of the cleric and wizard to make a tru wilderness shaman/dirt wizard

[@Torthrodhel]

Aww. I do think they ruined two really cool things about it, and I have to say I much prefer the UA version to either of the others. Thing one is it doing nonrandom damage which made it feel more unique and who doesn't like extra distinction between the way the classes feel like they work in the game? So that's a disappointing "fix". And then there's the potentially unlimited zombies causing your opposition to want to slay THEIR OWN heavily-injured guys just to avoid them being raised as zombies by your spore damage (but offset against potentially discouraging your allies from wanting to slay them lest they deny the team extra zombies, as well). That was such a cool battlefield machination! Is it REALLY that powerful to be able to do that? All it'd take is one enemy with an always-on area damage ability to wipe them out without trying. Doesn't seem too bad to me and again, unique and tactically fascinating. How disappointing. On the other hand, Ravnica's crossover material so I think it's fair enough if you wanna discount it (I had no idea there were subclasses in there - I didn't even know circle of spores had been redone at all until now). I was a long-time MtG player who got pissed off at the direction they took that game in, so no matter how cool the lore might be (and it indeed is), in a crossover it's always gonna be a bit of a bitter reminder. I think I'll keep pretending we only have the UA. Bit dismaying that they'd throw away such a cool concept in a crossover release... I'd hope they'd not do that. Please somebody tell me nothing got relegated to the Rick & Morty crossover! Please at least tell me that! I like what the homebrew version you highlight did, if you were to do those things. It's better than the release version, no question. I just don't see why you'd need to do those things in the first place.

[@pizzaemperor3553]

Could you do Great Old One Warlock next?

[@NerdImmersion]

It's on my list for sure. I think warlock could use a few tweaks first, like the base class first.

[@pizzaemperor3553]

@@NerdImmersion Awesome thanks

[@jwall1646]

Could the next race you fix be the kobold from Volos. it’s interesting how the same book that provided pages of lore and variants for the race had such disappointing character traits. I like the pack tactics and GC& B ability’s but they should’ve gotten sub-races. I’d also like to see if you have anything to say about the symic hybrid from ravnica.

[@agr0nianTV]

I like the fix, but since poison is so heavily resisted giving the ability that your spores ignore enemy poison resistance and poison immunity turns into resistance would really. By specifying enemy your zombies would be safe from AoE spores.

[@DallasAnubis]

Can you do the storm sorcerer next please?

[@NerdImmersion]

I can, though I feel if you apply my Sorcerer and Sorcerer 2.0 fixes to it, it solves a lot a lot of the storm sorcerer issues.

[@a99barnsey]

Here is my fix: 1) give access to false life as a way to replenish the temp hp 2) SE is a bonus action 3) SE adds poison to melee wpn attack AND necrotic to melee spell attacks 4) move Halo of spores to 6. Make it a DOT that raises Target as zombie when killed. 5) at level 10 you can make a bonus action melee attack when you cast a cantrip.

[@fortunatus1]

Two points to make. First, your criticism of druid design early on on the vid is missing the point. For one, the devs look at the subclasses and classes holistically (it's not a 1 for 1 adjustment). The Moon druid doesn't get spells because its the most powerful 2d level abilities of all the druid subclasses. The Spores druid gets spells not because its a spell casting subclass but because the idea of the spores druid is enhanced by having spells such as blight, contagion, cloudkill, etc. I expect that if the theme of the subclass is enhanced by certain spells, then druids will get spell lists in the future. If spells do not enhance the theme then they won't get spells. Second, he changed spores to poison, which is fine, but I think it's odd that he removed the save. Are there any poison attacks in the game that do not get a saving throw? Not to my uncertain memory. Should have increased the damage, kept the save, and made it half damage on a successful save rather than none.

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

I agree that moon druid doesn't need more spells and giving themed spells to more druid subclasses is neat, but my issue is with the land druid. Circle of the land's signature is having extra themed spells, the rest of its habilities are very lackluster. If you give any druid subclass themed spells, then you'll need to go back and "fix" the land druid

[@fortunatus1]

@@Ricardo-zo1ti I agree. Land has fairly weak or middling powers.

[@emperorxander666]

You say ranger are weak okay than fix my favorite gloom stalker.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Dropping the necrotic damage from the class is a simplistic and unnecessary nerf, and ignores the MTG lore that inspired the class. What's more, the reason Halo of Spores is save for no damage is because it's effectively a cantrip you cast on your reaction and all cantrips that allow a save are save or no damage. You want to "fix" Spore Druid? Give them Shillelagh as another free spell and make Symbiotic Entity add either the druid's wis mod or proficiency bonus to their armor class. That's all you need to make spore druid the best druid subclass.

[@baronvondoge3880]

This right here.

[@YMDIJ]

still waiting for EK to be fixed

[@SadBoi_1066]

I think the written version is fine honestly, and I dont feel it really needs a fix. However, as always I appreciate the theory crafting yall do, as its fuels my homebrew addiction :p

[@dilsoncamacho4100]

IMHO, since eberron rise from the last war was released, all wayfinder's like books lost their "official canon content" rating. Eberron RFTL straight up changed the races, and circle of spores druid is only officially in guildmaster's guide to ravnica, IMHO, a little less than perfect published version and more like wayfinders guide to eberron. They straight up could release a campaign setting book to ravnica and change the whole subclass with a new, more balance one.

[@NerdImmersion]

Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica is a published hardcover campaign setting, not sure how much more official it can get

[@dilsoncamacho4100]

@@NerdImmersion you are right in that aspect. The hardcover makes it a lot harder to change stuff. Wayfinders was only a digital book, so they pushed changes. They probably won't with ravnica, not risking devaluing already printed books.

[@keithmarshall4350]

I'd give them the ability to get an extra attack at level 6 instead of the zombie summoning ability. You still will deal poison damage so you arent better with your weapon than a ranger probably. I'd then allow the poison damage on ranged attacks and ditch the halo of spores to instead give a bonus druid cantrip.

[@urakirby5]

I honestly don't like any of these three versions. This could have been the swords bard or blade singer of druids. Getting extra attack and a useful super mode by burning a wildshape... But poison damage and dependent on the temp hp staying just super heavily kills it

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Honestly the base subclass is fine so long as the druid picks shillelagh as one of their cantrips, and they craft some kind of higher AC armor out of animal parts to get around the no metal armor rule. A Spore druid with decent dex, Half Plate made from giant scorpion or beetle shells, and a shield has an AC of 19. That will be enough to keep the temp hp buffer up a good while so long as the druid isn't the only frontline battler in the party. If feats are in play then the Shillelagh boosted staff they are swinging can have anything from polearm master to sentinel boosting it further. Hell, magic initiate and or war caster to add green flame blade or booming blade on top of symbiotic entity would have you rolling almost as many dice each swing as rogue sneak attacks at some levels and adding the modifiers for wisdom and either int or cha to the pile of necrotic, poison, bludgeoning, and fire or thunder damage. The class is a great starting point for a lot of the options in other books.

[@curtisbrown547]

remind me how an army of 1 hit point low AC stat blocks that dies after an hour is "kookoo, bananas"??? like... assuming you're not playing an "evil" campaign how are you sourcing that many fresh humanoid corpses? if you are playing an evil campaign... Cool. sounds like a great ability for an evil druid if you want me to be honest lol. even assuming you SOMEHOW amassed a "army" of lets say 20 zombies at level 6... ok. you have an army of 20 1 hp incredibly weak minions. I mean like, does AOE not exist? or multi-attack?? like this is one of those things where, it's going to be WAAAAAY less powerful in practice than it is on paper. like whats the theory craft here??? I can tarpit creatures with zombies? sure it's a fleeting resource though. remember you only get your free hour long zombies when HALO OF SPORES slays a creature. not when your party members do, not when your zombies do, not even when YOU do, only when that specific feature does so and even then this lasts for an hour MAX. so unless you have a party completely built and committed around this single gimmick is it really that powerful?? or good? no.... not at all. it's hard countered by sooooo many things, multi-attack, time,AOE ,but most importantly your other players at the table LOL. I'm not sure of many players who would be willing to soak damage for their druid while halo of spores chips away just to get a 1hp, temporary ally. The worst that you could say about the ability is that it could potentially be "disruptive", used to by players looking to be annoying, or it could potentially slow down combat... thats it, and necromancer wizard does BOTH of those things about a million times better and he's a AL legal PHB basic wizard sub class LOL.

[@Lanaestra]

"remember you only get your free hour long zombies when HALO OF SPORES slays a creature" except they literally changed that in the published version to be whenever any eligible creature dies in range. Imo the biggest problem with the published version is just that reanimating the zombies and doing spore damage are competing for your reaction. With that fixed and damage types shuffled to be a bit more synergistic I think you've got all the fixing the subclass could need.

[@SadBoi_1066]

My man, theyre never gonna give full errata for subclass fixes. Its just not in their business model. I think as a community we gotta come to that realization, and honestly, move on... which is where great homebrew solutions like the ones you provide come in!

[@valasafantastic1055]

It is bad in official published just weak. It is an option as worst Druid for a ‘play the worst classes and subclasses campaign’. I think the no save is a needed fix, I think leaving it part necrotic part posin isn’t ‘to complex’ 5e is already so dumbed down.... I’m working on 2 rpgs now including my ‘V-edition’ which is my personal ‘ultimate’ dnd version I will most likely be moving to that primarily over time as there are ALWAYS too many flaws and thing I NEED to houserule/homebrew and so many things I need to add for ALL dnd editions. I am being more 3.5/pathfinder based with the best of 5e and even some other things from other rpgs and my own stuff. They need to fix Ranger most of all. The newest unearthed arcana is a very good fix; I’m using it for my complex NPCs. Good video thanks.

[@firebringeraxel]

I'll never understand how some people actually defend the version released in the book.

[@darkdesigns]

Idk, I've been playing one for over a year now, and I've been fairly happy with it, personally. Only things I have an issue with are the Halo of Spores damage scaling poorly, and I think I've only been able to use the Fungal Infestation ability once since getting it (we don't normally fight humanoids or beasts). Even still, me asking the DM to make a Constitution save at the start of the enemy's turn has become a running gag at our table; mainly because more often than not they've failed it. He has remarked a couple times on how strong he thinks that ability is, so I guess it's all about your perspective on it.

[@eliaswomersley9802]

Play a bunch of teens as a campaign

[@dracole]

Hi. I have to say I enjoy a lot of your vids, but one thing I don't enjoy and annoys me to no end is the "Fixing" concept. For one, I play the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica's Circle of Spores and it is a wonderful subclass. But, that is my opinion, just as that it's not and needs tweaking is yours. And that's fine. I just find it problematic that you refer to your discussion of how you'd tweak it as "Fixing" it. It's a massive disservice to the game and community. I can't for the life of me understand why a fan of the game would so venomously degrade and diminish WotC and D&D by suggesting the product is just filled with a bunch of broken crap. If I was new to and just coming to D&D and one of the sources I turned to to inform myself was your channel, I would just assume it was such a poorly designed and flawed product that it was absolutely not worth my time or attention.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

@sum body well considering the fact that every single "fix" discussion begins with hyperbolic white room theory crafting that doesn't take 60% of actual in game scenarios into account, yeah he's right on the money.

[@chriscutler7588]

quit whining that a very under-powered sub-class has a few thematic spells added to their list.

[@chubby82]

This is the video that got me to UNFOLLOW.