My Experience with Rust as a Java Dev

[@johanngambolputty5351]

1:42 why don't you have rust-analyser enabled? You can get those errors live as you type. 4:00 in rust, when you finish drinking, your mug is automatically de-allocated ;) 9:00 traits allow you to write higher level logic, without assuming a backing type. For example, writing a function that does something to every element of a vector, versus any object that implements iterate, in the latter case you can use it also for arrays, hashmap values, whatever. 13:00 this bit is probably it just being a newer language, there's a lot of benefits of hindsight when it comes to things that turned out to be inconvenient about older build tools. 16:00 I don't like this way of putting it "rust forces you to do X", again, with the benefit of hindsight you've hopefully already realized that doing X is a good policy when writing code and saves you headaches in the longrun, rust just automates the process of checking that X is done, which is what you were going for all along anyway, e.g. trying to not have other pointers when you have one mut one (it's easy to miss one out, hard to scour your codebase to see where you slipped up, good to be able to be sure it hasn't happened).

[@MePatrick73]

I think there's a misunderstanding here regarding traits in Rust. Traits are both Generics and Interfaces, and the way they work differs from Java. In Rust, impl YourTrait or are compile-time interfaces. When you use these, Rust generates specific code for each type that implements the trait. This process is called monomorphization and ensures zero-cost abstraction, meaning no additional runtime overhead. Monomorphization allows you to define a contract for your inputs (through traits) and still have efficient, specialized code for each type at compile time. This is why Rust can offer powerful abstractions with no runtime cost. In contrast, &dyn YourTrait in Rust is for runtime polymorphism and is similar to Java interfaces. When you use &dyn YourTrait, you are creating a trait object that allows for dynamic dispatch at runtime. This is essentially equivalent to Java's interface system, where you can pass around different concrete types that implement the interface, and the method to call is determined at runtime. In Java, interfaces are purely runtime constructs. If you want to handle types that are Comparable, you would use the Comparable interface. However, in Java, you can't specify that a particular class must implement a method (like compareTo) without having to go through vtable checks at runtime. While Rust doesn’t strictly follow the Object-Oriented Programming (OOP) paradigm in the traditional sense, it still supports message passing and polymorphism through traits. This approach is what OOP originally focused on - defining behavior through interfaces or contracts - and Rust does it with zero runtime cost for compile-time traits and with dynamic dispatch for runtime traits. I’d recommend reading the Rust Book section on monomorphization and polymorphism. I believe you’ll find that Rust’s trait system aligns closely with OOP principles, but with much more efficient abstractions.

[@deezydoezeet]

geez man, TMI

[@EdElliott57]

I"m loving Rust for long-running processes I've been writing to migrate data between different Salesforce Orgs as it just runs for days if it needs to. Killing all the bugs at compile time is very helpful in that respect.

[@xMaticusfinchx]

I'm really feeling like I'm following very closely in your footsteps. I'm primarily a Java developer (hit my 5 year professional mark in October), and I'm really wanting to learn Rust. On top of that, I've switched to Neovim as my editor this year. I'm glad I'm not the only one to make comparisons between life and programming lmao. Good luck on your Rust journey!

[@toby9999]

I've been a C and C++ dev for 28 years. I decided to try rust, but it did my brain in real quick. Didn't like it. It was 10% writing code and 90% head against brick wall.

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@toby9999 OLD and B4LD --> ♿️ LOL

[@eaglethebot1354]

Traits are awesome. I think of the language as a buffet since you mostly opt in to behaviors / patterns vis composition, and you get to assemble your plate with whatever you want (traits, generics, impl struct), but the chefs that offer the food use their combined experience and knowledge to prevent you from choosing a bad combination of food items (borrow checker + compiler).

[@havocthehobbit]

welcome to the cult of the crab, we like it here

[@RustIsWinning]

YES !! 🦀🦀🦀

[@realtitedog]

About Vec::new() vs vec![], if you look at how the vec![] macro works, under the hood it calls Vec::new() if you dont provide any parameters, so you can use either one, personally I use Vec::new() though because I think it has better readability 😁

[@Psy45Kai]

Some advice when coming from heavy oop languages to Rust: learn to properly devide data from functionality! In oop wie learn that data should also do things (looking at you shape-drawing example!). But in rust you should have types for data (which maybe have conversion functions) and types with real functionality! E.g.: String is data. You have some functions to create and concert from and to strings. But you shouldnt have a function which write to a file attached to the string! Writing somewhere is functionality. So you will have some types like File and TcpStream which have the functionality to write to a file in the filesystem or to via a tcp-socket. Having this mental model of data vs functionality makes writing code much easier! But it should not be a hard rule in the long run! E.g.: you want to write to memory instead into a file. Thats why Vec (data) implements the Write-trait (functionality). Having an extra VecWriter would be overkill hence mixing data and functionality in *some* cases might be ok.

[@RuskiRozpierdalacz]

As Java dev I found Rust to be surprisingly similar to Java in code readibility. Way more than for example Go. For business logic-heavy software I would stay with JVM languages but I really like Rust for tinkering with microcontrollers and would be okay with using it if I have to write extremely performant software.

[@jr-dev-yoru]

As someone fairly new to programming, Rust is a hard but excellent experience. The Rust Programming Language book is amazing so far, the compiler screaming at you all the time but giving you precise info what went wrong and how to fix it and Cargo giving you docs for dependencies that you can run in your browser using cargo doc --open is like a dream developer experience. Coming from javascript hell, I fell in love with rust and it's ecosystem. It being a low-level language teaches you a lot about how computers work and that is also amazing

[@analisamelojete1966]

Cargo is excellent. Made managing projects dependencies easier.

[@misc10k]

Personal anecdote - I had a lot easier time learning Rust for the second time by spending a few weeks with Elixir, beforehand, to better grasp functional programming concepts and shift my OOP-only mindset.

[@anon_y_mousse]

I would suggest that you learn C instead. The compiler doesn't hold your hand, but if you really need that at this point in your career, there are plenty of tools to use. Personally, the more I learn of Rust, the more I hate it. Things like unbox and clone are as much anti-patterns as move is in C++. The more clear syntax for handling an error return where you're maybe receiving something is to merely test it with: if ( obj ) do_something here(); else do_something_else(); Or if a quick exit on failure would make more sense, and it often does, then: if ( !obj ) { print_error(); return error_code; }; Of course, if you still feel the need to have OO design patterns with language support for them, C++ is still the better choice over Rust, even if r- and l- value references have muddied things up.

[@olacurrency]

I am exactly at the same stage with you on Rust and I have the same feeling and enthusiasm. I have originally left Java for GoLang as a primary language for concurrency reasons but then moved to C# which IMO brings what I want in Java and Go into one. I am now learning Rust and I found it strict and intentional just like you which I am loving by the way. C# is still my go to language but I am loving it with Rust. FWIW: I think traits are actually more of abstract classes than interfaces as it forces you to implement those behaviors but I might be wrong. Also, I have read bad things about Rust concurrency and multithreading so I am not yet excited about that. Good luck to us and you are becoming my favorite KZbinr. 😊

[@k16style]

Take a look Zig

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@k16style Zig = Segfault 😂

[@mrcrazyenough007]

What will be your advice for JavaScript dev (specifically Node.js) transitioning to Rust? Because I am trying to switch to JavaEE instead, just to get out of this startup web dev culture and setup into the Enterprise world with Java. But lately I came to know that with rust you will get know more about computers, because it's all about system programming, but I suppose I might find it really hard to move to Rust as a System Programmer from Node.js as a Web Developer, given that my professional experience with C/C++ is nearly 0.

[@sstijn577]

5:42 you say when levels is mutable only one & is valid, this is not the case, you can still have as many of those immutable references (&T) as you like OR you can have ONE SINGLE mutable reference (&mut T), think about it in terms of data races. I can have multiple READ ONLY references without any issues, but I can't have thatnwhen there is a READ/WRITE reference in the mix, same reason as to why only 1 &mut T is allowed, not multiple (T is just a placeholder for a type here)

[@bpo217]

Based on your experience and since you asked, my advice is: don’t be afraid to name lifetimes and generic types other than ‘a or T or whatever. Lifetimes and generics will propagate throughout your type tree and knowing what specific lifetime they are referring to or generic type you are referring to is really helpful for understanding or connecting things together. The type system is basically its own language and to make the intent readable for yourself or someone else later, name things in this space accordingly. T or ‘a is being lazy unless it’s really simple. Rust is a great programming language and once you see what I am talking about here in some more complex situations you’ll realize, which is my second tip: before you start a Rust project: do I really need to make this perfect zero abstraction tool or can I let go and do it good enough with something else?

[@alexgghlebg5375]

I have used and learned many programming languages, starting with Python, then C and C++. I love Rust because it’s easier to write purpose-driven code in Rust compared to C++. I also enjoy working with pointers and references, which are implemented in C, C++, and Rust but not in Python. Since I started learning "low-level" programming, my brain has naturally shifted to thinking and coding with pointers and references because they are both efficient and intuitive. As an intermediate-level Rust developer, I’ve encountered significant challenges with multithreading. For example, I once tried to use 8 threads to send over 50,000 queries via HTTPS to an API. The main issue I faced was related to borrowing and the borrow checker when working with shared resources, such as a buffer to keep track of what had already been sent. It’s a bit embarrassing to admit, but while Rust is an amazing language, every time I try to tackle multithreading, it feels too complicated for me. As a result, I often end up reverting to C++. If you have any advice, I’d really appreciate it.

[@raidensama1511]

Async (Tokio) is challenging for sure. But take your time, go slow and enlightenment will greet you.

[@toby9999]

Rust is much more difficult to learn and use than C++ in my opinion. I can do anything I want to do in C++, so I've abandoned rust. It effectivelly offers me nothing but headaches. As for multi-threading, I've developed them in C++ without any issues. I'm not sure what additional benefits rust provides there, but it does make everything 10x harder.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

@@toby9999 As a user of C++ over decades and having got into Rust 4 years ago I really don't understand how one can find Rust more difficult. C++ is a huge and complex language, no single human knows all its features and how they interact with each other. C++ inherits all kind of foot guns from C and adds more with every new standard, to use C++ reliably one needs to be familiar with hundreds of coding guide lines and constantly check ones code against them. Sure the Rust compiler complains a lot, but that is only enforcing all those good rules that C++ programmers have to learn from coding standards or hard experience debugging their code. No way does Rust make things 10 times harder than C++, unless of course you are trying to use it as C++.

[@raidensama1511]

@seems as if you’re bitching and moaning about skill issues. Admit it, you don’t like the language because of the hype and the foundation. Don’t hate the language… hate the foundation.

[@Iuigi_t]

5:43, not exactly. Each variable can only have one mutable value/reference or multiple immutable references. So, either a single writer or multiple readers.

[@DomainObject]

Great video. Nicely framed description of your Rust journey.

[@baejisoozy]

Still learning neovim? First week is brutal.

[@raidensama1511]

Don’t give up. Sooner rather than later you’ll be a “pro”

[@jonatasscdc]

Try to program in Rust, inside neovim, in a kali linux VM that keeps crashing because you run out of space in your main machine. That is how I am ~crying~ learning Rust, or trying to.

[@daveinthesky]

First week is brutal. Third week is bliss.

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@jonatasscdc Why a VM and why kali linux? Also how much RAM does the host have? So many questions lmao

[@SpectreFury]

Wait a few weeks and you won't be able to use anything other than vim key binding

[@Lado93]

1:58 when you use cargo clippy you will get further suggestions from improving code...rust is really good.

[@CrayonEater9845]

Definitely try Kotlin. Baking null-ability into the type system is awesome. I went back to Java after years of kotlin and missed all the conveniences

[@emvdl]

Have a deep look at enums, that will give you a lot of insights

[@ReedoTV]

Option is java.util.optional without the overhead of it being wrapped in an object. match is Java 23 switch expressions.

[@cactusnormal2059]

What is the vscode theme ?

[@rockNbrain]

I'm learning Rust for about two months, and it's being great ! I hope the language gets traction by the tech market 🎉

[@deezydoezeet]

You're on the right track boss!

[@bentels5340]

I've tried to get my head around Rust. True, my major problem is that I have nothing to use Rust for and I can't build any actual experience. But I hate the borrow checker. It's just a mountain of frustration.

[@toby9999]

I've tried rust, but I'm not into self-inflicted pain, so I've decided it's not for me.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

Languages like C and C++ also have data ownership and data lifetimes and hence they have issues with mutable references. The difference is that languages like C and C++ have no notion of ownership and lifetimes in their syntax and semantics. Their standards documents hardly mention such issues. Instead one finds out about data ownership and lifetimes when debugging crashes and data corruptions at run time. So yes, the borrow checks may seem frustrating but the problems it is saving your from exist in C, C++ and other languages just as much. Fixing the mistakes one can make in this languages at run time is even more frustrating. If you come from a Java or other background you likely have no idea what it's about yet.

[@reybontje2375]

In general, I've found that you don't usually need to get into wrestling matches with the borrow checker. The only places you need to worry about borrowing is with code that needs to be insanely performant, which is not most code. In general, you can opt out of the borrow checker by using derive clone. Also, instead of &, which is checked by the compiler, you can use Rc/Arc. If you need mutable references, you can use Rc or Arc. Sure, your program essentially becomes a garbage-collected program (the Rc or Reference counter just counts your objects instead), you can save the garbage counting or cloning for things that actually need it like global state. I've also found that proc_macros can really cut down on verbosity in a lot of places.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

@@toby9999 I'm curious. Which language do you use to get your pain? After using a dozen or more languages, compiled, interpreted, virtual machined, JITed, whatever, I have found that they all have their pain points. Rust at least offers some important tangible benefits in return for a little pain.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

@@reybontje2375 I agree. I have written quite a bit of Rust in the last five years, much of which has been running in production for about that long, I almost never have problems with th borrow checker.. And when I do it the same kind of lifetime problems one would have in C or C++ and not find out until weird crashes and corruptions start happening at run time. Most of my Rust code reads as simply as something like Javascript.

[@thezachdrake]

The Matthew McConaughey of computer science out here....

[@haathimmunas1563]

Dude I was thinking about the exact same thing😂😂

[@adrianford468]

Although Rust is complicated i feel like it gives a different insight to approach coding I love it. Only started learning it to build desktop apps in Tauri. But you can build fullstack website using Rust with Dioxus and using diesel as a Postgres ORM . Sometimes documentation is not to clear but that’s what makes Rust great, not being suited up like JavaScript completed libraries. sometimes get the feeling of being your own personal Ryan Dahl

[@voidwalker7774]

Why use an ORM? Just Sqlx and RAW SQL. Make performance go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[@adrianford468]

@ this is why we have these conversation I’m going to research your option

[@toby9999]

Why does bad documentation make a language better? That seems counter intuative to me. And in fact it's one of the reasons why I've already abandoned rust. It's a battle I don't need to fight.

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@voidwalker7774Truee. Always raw 🐶 the queries lol

[@rodrigofernandes6449]

have you tried bevy?

[@hasibalfuad9652]

Shouting the primeagen out

[@pietraderdetective8953]

What happened between Prime and Rust? Genuinely curious..I noticed he colored his hair like Sonic the hedgehog ~ blazingly fast.

[@brandonhunter3036]

Two devs walk into a restroom and take a piss. Java dev proceeds to sink, Rust dev proceeds to the door: JavaDev: “In Java, they teach us to wash our hands after we pee.” RustDev: “In Rust, they teach us not to piss on our own hands.”

[@Walker299]

Generics are sick. Return a result if the functions dealing with like io and may fail and use option when the values might not exist like a potentially null/none field in a struct.

[@raidensama1511]

My favorite features of rust are

[@todd.mitchell]

15:44 Nuns Fret Not at Their Convent’s Narrow Room By William Wordsworth Nuns fret not at their convent’s narrow room; And hermits are contented with their cells; And students with their pensive citadels; Maids at the wheel, the weaver at his loom, Sit blithe and happy; bees that soar for bloom, High as the highest Peak of Furness-fells, Will murmur by the hour in foxglove bells: In truth the prison, into which we doom Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me, In sundry moods, ’twas pastime to be bound Within the Sonnet’s scanty plot of ground; Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be) Who have felt the weight of too much liberty, Should find brief solace there, as I have found.

[@kaleabgen9358]

really you are my motive to learn coding, am sure you will see this comment so it really be helpfull if you make like video of saying that like talking about your old time videos like when you were learning c.scince live video of how i learn to code , then i learn html by this i learn this by this it's really helpfull

[@akagamishanks7991]

The analogy was so on point lmaoo

[@Luddekn]

Hows the nvim experience treating you? :D

[@jasnarmstrng]

Wholesome vid.

[@technerd3455]

bruh becoming a rust bro 🔥🔥

[@perghosh8135]

Rust = strange syntax and where only std::unique_ptr is allowed if you compare to C++

[@thatomothapo450]

Im definitely way too early, be back in an hour or two

[@Soso-km8er]

I tried to like Rust but it has the same issues as other (modern) languages. Once you start doing something interesting you will quickly get stuck in unmaintained, incomplete libs/bindings, the quirky side of tooling pops up and therefore productivity is not what you expected. Java/C++ may have its quirks too, but at least there are billion-dollar project in the industry that also need to get those solved.

[@codeman99-dev]

Before watching: I tried Rust. Tried to solve a problem with WebAssembly (too early). Read the Rust book. Completed the Rustlings project. Did codewars challenges. Wrote a very cool CLI tool. Was enjoying it for the most part. Then came Shuttle's Christmas Code Hunt 2023... Doing WebSockets with Rust is awful. Total caca poo poo. The type safety doesn't help you in any way. Which means that it's just in your way at the same time as you're trying to solve a race condition. YUCK.

[@ヤッシン_y4ssin]

Actix-ws

[@reybontje2375]

Axum also has good support for WebSockets.

[@clymbep3390]

3:35 well i think im a java dev (never code on java)

[@PaulHosler]

now if we can just get you to use neovim...

[@rajatagnihotri7887]

Amazing video

[@Shivansh_singh4539]

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[@jvcmarc]

As a Rust dev (2 years working with it professionally) your understanding is on point! Great video, awesome seeing you're enjoying the language as much as I do The epiphanies are real when you're first learning it, I was coming from a mostly C# background. But I knew some F# too which helped me with the more functional aspects of Rust Oh, and about how to initialize vectors, I absolutely despise the vec macro, I think it shouldn't be in the standard library at all. It was necessary a few years ago, but today there's no reason, I hope it gets deprecated. To explain: macros are harder to understand (they can do any magic they want), they slow down compilation, and on some IDEs (such as vscode) it breaks code completion and hints I use Vec::new when creating empty vecs, and Vec::from when creating a vec with data. As an example, you could write Vec::from([1, 2, 3]) This Vec::from approach wasn't the best a few years ago, Rust didn't have a way to allocate sufficient memory so it could cause reallocations during initialization. But since then the language team has implemented some features (const generics) that solve that issue Well, that's my rant about the vec macro. Again, great video!

[@toby9999]

I'm thinking that just about any language would seem great after struggling with java. That said, I don't like either language. They both burn my brain cells but in very different ways.

[@chadzulu4328]

The borrow checker is like the schoolmaster's wife in Pink Floyd - The Wall.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

The borrow checker is like your loving mother or father that gave you a good spanking as a child when you went off the rails, because they loved you, because they wanted you to grow up knowing right from wrong.

[@chadzulu4328]

@@Heater-v1.0.0 Yeah, you're right.

[@raphlow]

Anything compared to Java is "AWESOME"

[@cosmowanda6460]

Have you finished CS 101?

[@HistoryInClip]

I don't know if know has told you this , but you look like a minion version of theprimeagen

[@jesper2455]

Funny that you compare Rust as being more strict than Java. I've always seen people thinking that Java is strict, when compared to other languages.

[@kaleabgen9358]

bro i am my first person to comment

[@himanshu010]

so ?

[@WhiteSponge]

Welcome to memory management and pointers! This is why learning languages like C++ before jumping into Rust helps a lot 😂

[@muharief3885]

As a python engineer, it might be i would go mojo lang rather than rust. For me investing in the new language is expensive, need months even years to master it.

[@cccc2740]

after having worked with java, go, rust, python, i would say following: use java/go or even python if you want to deliver a project worth something, use rust if you want to earn those brownie academic points and to make a youtube video(ofcourse project is never delivered)

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

After having worked with ALGOL, Coral, Ada, C, C++, Pascal, Python, Javascript, Rust. I would say the following: If you want to produce robust, reliable and performant code, if you want to minimise tedious debugging effort and all those calls in the night when code in production produces random errors or crashes then use Rust. If you just want to churn out slop for a pay cheque, with no regard to reliability or efficiency, and don't mind getting more pay cheques for debugging it and taking service calls later then by all means use any other language. Really, your demeaning comments about "brownie academic points" and "projects never delivered" is not only uncalled for but incorrect. Plenty of people and companies are delivering quality product in Rust, more everyday. They are busy doing that rather than making YT videos about it.

[@AslamNazeerShaikh]

C# is best and better than rust in same case 😅🎉❤

[@HansBezemer]

Rust and Java - nothing to learn here, "Don't recommend channel".

[@GetRektTom]

What?

[@RustIsWinning]

Okay boomer 😂

[@HansBezemer]

@RustIsWinning You really have to be a pureblooded Gen Z to think there is a shadow of a chance that this constitutes a valid argument.

[@RustIsWinning]

@@HansBezemer I am Gen Z and my argument is so good that it made some random Hansi in the world respond with my name which only tells the truth! Checkmate.

[@HansBezemer]

@RustIsWinning I'm far from random, pal. And your argument is a certified logical fallacy. It's true what they say about Gen Z. They're really ignorant and lazy.

[@michelvandermeiren8661]

To my xp, it is hard to get Rust as fast as java. You need to put ton's on ingeeniring

[@megatron324]

you are a caricature of real life problems to me, i do not take you seriously at all and have learned nothing from you.