Flash storage for classic PC's - building an XT-IDE kit!

[@Jurgh909]

Anyone else like the "prompt $p$g" better? C:\> instead of C>

[@Christopher-N]

PCs through my uncle often had the Prompt command altered to read C:\ - What's next, Chris? - > or similar. I eventually returned it to default due to overly nested subdirectories.

[@StompySan]

The first thing I noticed was the RadioShack solder and instantly got sad. I never knew how much I relied on them until they were gone. Rest in spaghetti, never forgetti.

[@ModernClassic]

Yeah, I actually like that solder! I have another spool I got from Mouser that's smaller diameter and technically more appropriate for something like this, but it just doesn't work as well. I think it's the flux; the RS solder just has a lot of flux, and it seems like good flux. The other stuff I have also has a flux core but it just doesn't stick unless I manually flux up every surface before soldering. I've been wondering what to buy when my RS solder finally runs out.

[@seanc.5310]

RIP Radio Shack. I still have some of that Radio Shack solder and a number of pig tail cable repair parts, switches and adapters. Those days of having a local place to run out to for a part at the 11th hour are sadly gone. Most nostalgic of all, my old and beloved Tandy 286...ahh the memories of my first PC 😢 I'm gonna go give her a boot up just to listen to that lovely loud HDD and PC speaker post tone!

[@Skelefits]

AMEN!

[@LemmyCaution66]

Being new to DIY electronics and don’t know if I should use solder with or without lead. Any tips? Thank you in advance! 👍

[@MagnaRyuuDesigns]

Don't feel so sad, the smaller "mom and pop" radioshacks are still around

[@cbmeeks]

That hard drive sound during it spinning down made my skin crawl. lol Great video.

[@ethanpoole3443]

cb meeks Bad ball bearings scraping within their races never sounds pretty!

[@wishusknight3009]

it is fixable with a bit of effort..................

[@BillAnt]

WD-40 and DuctTape!! tsk tsk

[@Jurgh909]

My Hardcard was like that already in the mid 90s

[@vwestlife]

FYI: Several manufacturers did make 8-bit IDE-XT hard drives and interface cards (not to be confused with this XT-IDE card) in the late '80s and early '90s, but there were multiple different proprietary interfaces in use, so an IDE-XT drive from one manufacturer wasn't guaranteed to work with an IDE-XT interface card from another manufacturer. And only one model of these drives (the Seagate ST-351A/X) was also compatible with the "normal" 16-bit IDE (a.k.a. ATA) interface. But nonetheless I do have Seagate IDE-XT drives in several of my Tandy 1000 systems and they work just fine.

[@beatadalhagen]

I do not recall which card I ended up with, but I did have an 8-bit IDE host adapter in my 1000 TX. Possibly as early as 1990. I also had the 768k ram expansion, a mathco, and I think an RTC. I dug that 'superior' PC Jr. clone of the Tandy.

[@ethanpoole3443]

The 80s were an interesting period in PC hard drive interfaces, in the course of that decade I used MFM, ESDI, SCSI, and IDE driver interfaces in my various PCs. I’m not even sure most of that era even remember the ESDI interface that was an intermediate interface technology between the aging MFM and SCSI/IDE which were still maturing at the time.

[@glitchwrks]

Indeed, it was common to see SCSI systems with an ESDI drive and a SCSI to ESDI converter board bolted to the drive.

[@glitchwrks]

The ST-351A/X was also one of the last 40 MB stepper-positioned drives made, too. I don't know if that contributes to their seemingly higher-than-average survival rate, but they do seem to be tough little drives. I've found more of them in 16-bit ATA service than 8-bit XTA service.

[@Tris289]

The ST=351 A/X was a pretty snappy drive for what it was too. Loved em

[@InconsistentManner]

i can hear all nearly 300 of us wearing headphones cringing when that hard drive spun down...

[@ModernClassic]

I'm one of them :)

[@sgkonfetti]

Abandon software: winworldpc.com/library

[@ImpiantoFacile]

Also vetusware.com

[@tweakpc]

The video is PC Hardware Retro Extreme for PC Nerds I like it :D

[@Nukle0n]

That NTSC CGA faux-16 colors remains a fascinating topic. It's really interesting how even John Carmack didn't know about this until he learned from from The 8bit Guy's video on the topic.

[@ModernClassic]

I haven't looked into how the PC does it too deeply, but the Apple II and various other computers also used artifact colors, so unless the PC's doing something really different but called the same thing, it seems like it was a pretty common hack at the time. The only reason I can think of it not being widely known on the PC is that most people probably used the official monitor with an RGBi connection - I don't remember ever seeing anyone connecting a PC with a composite connector in the 80's.

[@slipknotboy555]

Right? And it makes games look *so* much nicer than standard CGA

[@ModernClassic]

Games definitely do, yeah. Text and other apps look a lot worse, though. I had a really hard time even getting the text to a point where I could comfortably read it over composite, whereas over a CGA connection it's 100% clean. Tradeoffs either way. But it's nice that there were options.

[@slipknotboy555]

@@ModernClassic Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And options are definitely good - Burgertime looked great, for example. Maybe one of the best looking, if not the best looking port. Which is pretty cool for a PC game for the time

[@ModernClassic]

And I had *no idea* it looked that good before this, because I have only ever played this version on RGBi.

[@Vintersemestre00]

Yay, a new Modern Classic! Couldn't have clicked this video any faster.

[@thomasfuchs78]

I’d love to see more of those 80s business apps! In the early to mid 80s there was a plethora of business apps before a Microsoft essentially took over, and some of them were very innovative.

[@ModernClassic]

Yeah, maybe I'll do a video about the most popular ones sometime... at the moment I believe those two are the only ones I have that I'm somewhat familiar with. (The previous owner of this machine also had something called "Sprint" on the hard drive but I have no idea what kind of app it even is.)

[@thomasfuchs78]

Modern Classic Some apps to consider: Lotus Agenda, WordPerfect, WordStar, Harvard Graphics... I recently started a thread on this over at the VCF forums: www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?65158-1980s-productivity-software

[@JuryDutySummons]

Haha I did all my homework on WordPerfect back in the day. Word at the time just didn't have the same feature set, even if it did some things better.

[@BillAnt]

Still running WordPerfect X7 on a modern machine of course, and wouldn't trade it for anything else(and believe me I've tried them all). The code reveal is probably the best feature none of the others have.

[@razorx2024]

the solder you're using is way to thick for something like this, you should use 0.5mm solder at the very least

[@ModernClassic]

Hey guys! Several people have actually commented about the size of the solder I'm using, so I may as well pin my answer. I do have thinner solder that's probably more technically appropriate for this purpose (the spool is behind the flux in the shot when I'm tinning the tip), but I intentionally chose to use thicker stuff. It has a thicker flux core and makes it easier to finish jobs like this quickly, because I don't need to manually flux. And it works. It might not be as pretty as the stuff you've seen working at an electronics company, but that's not the goal. The goal is to have fun making something that works and show you how to do the same, and that was the result here.

[@SianaGearz]

That explanation doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, as the amount of flux does not depend on the solder thickness. 2% flux in 0.5mm solder is not too uncommon. Not that you're wrong in using the solder that you happen to like, after all the thin solder you have just might not be very good to work with for a variety of reasons, just poking holes in the logic. I find thin solder to be faster as it will start melting quicker and release the flux very easily. At the end of the day your soldering is perfectly fine, it doesn't look machine made, but there's absolutely no reason to suspect that it will fail.

[@rokero171]

I always use 1mm flux core solder, and never had a problem, perhaps your thin solder wire isn't good, or is an older spool that isn't good anymore...

[@witnesszer0]

0.5mm too small you'll use it all up 1.0mm is the way to go

[@pdjames1729]

#sodder Omg! What's wring with your voice?? Why do you make videos whilst chewing a bunch of springs in your mouth? I can't imagine that any human could understand this accent, even if it weren't for all of the hideously mis-pronounced words... if you plan to make a career of this kind of thing, can I suggest you learn a proper English accent? Like everyone else on the planet :oP And annunciate dear boy, Annunciate! xxRj (I hope it's obvious that this is a joke, but I'm going to write this anyway ;o)

[@Nicolai0Nerland]

Using a bigger gauge for solder isn't an issue; there difference mainly comes to how fast you need to feed the solder to the joint. It can be easier to control the amount of solder with a smaller gauge, but at the same time if you're careful, there's nothing wrong using something bigger.

[@budude2]

For breaking apart the jumper strips I would suggest you score it with an xacto first on both sides - it will increase your odds at breaking it at the right count but also in the center of the gap...

[@ethanpoole3443]

Brian Ullmark Actually, there is no need to score if you use two pairs of pliers, one grasping to either side of the crimped area between pins and then quickly rotate one of the pliers just a fraction of a turn, you will get a clean break every time because you concentrate all the force on the built in weakness between pins (it’s an even more helpful trick with the double pin header strips). Even just securing one side rigidly in pliers and then using your hand for the other half greatly improves the chance of a clean break without having to score the break point, though double pliers is still the more reliable method with the double wide header strips.

[@budude2]

I guess each to his/her own - been doing it that way for many years and it works for me anyway. With that said - either way is better than just snapping them apart with your fingers alone.

[@glitchwrks]

I use pliers to hold the section that's being broken off, and start with the 2-pin segments, then the 3-pin segments, so you're left with a 10-pin piece to break into half for the two 5-pin segments. Breaking the short ones off first gives you more leverage. But everyone builds kits differently -- cutting with an X-acto knife or snipping them apart with side cutters works, too!

[@glitchwrks]

Hey, that looks familiar! :) Cool to see a video of the assembly process! You can also buy kits and whatnot on Tindie, aside from supporting a cool trading platform largely targeted at open source hardware, some of the stuff is cheaper there due to lower Tindie fees. And, since there's sometimes questions about it, the kit is *significantly* cheaper than the assembled board not only due to assembly/testing times, but because I actively want to promote hobbyists getting DIY kits and soldering them up! There's a manual in the works, it's not done yet. W.R.T. initial bring-up of the card, you need to erase the CF card, and then do the partitioning and formatting on the XT-IDE. The XT-IDE doesn't have to be installed in the target machine for that, you could for example use a Pentium 3 with ISA slots and it'd work just fine. I'm also working on a CF adapter that bolts to any XT-IDE that uses the Keystone 9202 ISA bracket. That'll free up your slot occupied by the CF converter. Since it'll be supplied as a module, like the Slot 8 Support board, I'll be able to offer it with the surface mount soldering done already so that kit builders who don't want to attempt surface mount can still build the main XT-IDE board themselves.

[@cbmeeks]

BTW, if it hasn't been mentioned already, you should really use thinner solder. You will have an easier time controlling the flow.

[@ModernClassic]

Nah. Mentioned this in another comment, but I like this solder. I have thinner solder (you can even see it in a few shots) but it's actually harder to control.

[@tin2001]

You get used to a certain size. I use stuff that looks like it's even thicker than in this video for through hole stuff (and tinning). I've got thinner stuff, but it feels clumsy because I'm not used to it. And I've got some really thin stuff that came with my Chinese soldering station... Just recently started using it, and it does feel nice, but is no good for big joints because it takes miles of it to get anywhere.

[@zusurs]

It would be cool, if Glitchworks would actually provide a all-in-one solution - the XT card with memory controller and CF/SD slot on board. It would allow to spare a slot in the motherboard, and be verified out-of-the-box solution for solid storage needs on old machines.

[@ModernClassic]

There is such a thing as an XT-CF. But then you're locked in to CF. I just wanted the freedom to be able to use CF, SD or even an IDE hard drive (I never know how I'll feel in a few months). But if you know you only want CF, you can get this or something like it: www.ebay.com/itm/Bootable-XT-CF-ECO-LITE-XTIDE-Lite-8-bit-ISA-2GB-SSD-Hard-Drive/123270191495

[@glitchwrks]

Working on this. It's just gotten pushed down in the project queue for other things.

[@intel386DX]

1:02 Actually there are 8bit ISA IDE back in a day but there are very rare! :)

[@weirdmindofesh]

I fell in love with the IDE to CF adapter as soon as I put it in my 486 gateway. It's fast enough that the activity light does not light normally. I do feel bad for the hardcard, it sounds like the spindle motor has dry bearings.

[@EdwinvandenAkker]

3:02 A better camera angle could be from the other side of the table _(so you see the yellow attention label in the left of the frame)_ 4:34 I think the best order of soldering... er SODDERing... a chip is first the first pin, then then last pin. This way the chip is more flush with the circuit board. 8:54 Great SODDERing job. I would have done a far worse job. 16:13 Maybe... just maybe... it stores references to absolute paths. I mean, when you copy _Paradox_ from a drive that once was a C: drive to a subdirectory on a D: drive, it just lost the paths. Maybe it can be fixed by editing some config files. But yeah, where to start... But hey, great video. I don't have old _museum-computers_ laying around. So, I love watching the ones that are recorded and put here on YT!

[@BillAnt]

SODDERING with solder... tsk tsk

[@anew742]

Great video as always! I love how determined and serious you look in the monitor reflections lol

[@JosHageman]

Nice video. I remember the artefact from your cga screen, it's called (or we called it) snow. It's there when you PC sends data to the screen when your monitor electron bean moves from the lower right to the upper left corner. Some aoftware programs had an option to prevent this.

[@scottmm78]

How similar is this to the lo-tech xt-ide/cf cards

[@beyerch]

Couple of Notes: PC XTs had MFM *and* RLL drives. Also, there are 8-bit IDE cards, they came out in the late 486 / early Pentium days. While I've never tried an older IDE card/HD in my 8086, I did move the RLL Drive w/ 8 bit controller card into my early Pentium PC and it was able to see it. I wish I knew about this XT-IDE kit, it might have saved me some trouble :) charlescbeyer.com/ccb_wp/5-14-floppy-fun/

[@thedutchretrogamer]

in my language it`s called soldeer and when you solder it`s solderen (dutch)

[@Lurker1979]

I love that people are figuring out how to add modern storage to old comuters.

[@thriveimagedesign]

❤️ the soldering pronunciation disclaimer 👍🏼

[@SianaGearz]

I usually find myself being unable to tell the colours apart on resistors unless i use a lot of magnification. Another pet peeve of mine are cheap 1%/2% resistors which are... good, except the spacing is wrong and you can read them from both sides, but only one of two values is correct! I find it best to just measure every single component that can be measured before i mount it, takes a second, faster than reading really.

[@glitchwrks]

They Phier mil-spec conformally coated resistors :p But they are a little harder to read. I typically try not to use multiple values with the same starting digits in my kits, so that people don't have to guess.

[@muchosa1]

Quattro Pro & Paradox, programs I used to use but forgotten about.

[@WaywardgtBlogspotGT]

Valiant effort Mr. Old School, sir. I have some old project hardwares around, but not quite that old. Will anyone know how to operate these in 20 years? Or care to? Dunno...fun to tinker with though ;)

[@NaokisRC]

I wonder if it could be possible to make some kind of newer hard card with IDE or sata interfaces and using slim drives. I suppose either interface could also mean that you could use SSDs

[@MattIsTheCat]

Someone recommended that I use a compact flash controller, and when I looked that up I found this. So does this work with the original 1981 bios chip, or does it require an upgrade to revision 10/27/82 as it does with a "regular hard drive", and also, in general, does it work on an original 5150 without any upgrades? In your reply can you also state all of the components needed and their specific models, and even possibly a few recommended compact flash, (I plan on using DOS 3.0)? EDIT: I just found out about www.xtideuniversalbios.org/, are any of the files compatible with the original IBM PC, with the original bios chip? I noticed that all of the bin files mention XT AT or 386 (one doesn't, it is contains the text "tiny", even the card and BIOS itself have XT in the name. But based on even more information that I just found, monotech.fwscart.com/XTIDE_Deluxe_Bootable_ISA_CFIDE_Interface_Card/p6083514_19478732.aspx the BIOS is specifically on the card, and does not replace the PC's bios, but would the all CPU compatible BIOS option be correct if I want it to work with a 5150, and what is recommended for the EEPROM type? Will this even work on a non-otherwise upgraded Original IBM 5150? Hopefully last edit: An eBay seller of a card mentioned this in their description "8088-based computers are picky about the type of CF card used. They will require an IDE/PATA hard drive or a Memory Partner, WinSystems or SiliconDrive CF card. The free included CF card isn't compatible with 8088's." interpreting

[@rayoflight62]

I used Edia Borland Paradox. And, later, their language compilers. They were the first to add the IDE interface (not the HD bus, but their development interface) to the programs. Heroic times. My original PC had two floppies, but I replaced one of them with a 30 Mb half-height HDD soon later. I liked you video, thank you...

[@ReneWennekes]

I have a XT-IDE Rev 4.1. Is it possible to flash the bios on a modern PIII-500MHz? because my PIII won't start with the card inserted.

[@silverstreettalks343]

Thanks for the comment on solder. As an Australian, I solder with an L, and found the article you displayed quite interesting, I am reminded, though, of my maternal grandfather, who was born in 1883, and who used to sodder without an L. His English came ultimately from the Cambridgeshire dialect spoken by his father (born 1831). It seems to be one of those words which has various pronunciations, not always defined by country.

[@daspolemon]

Would be great if you could SD-Cards, though. I used to have a weird USB 1.0 solution back in the day, where you'd connect two PCs over USB (both had to have the appropriate cards installed, these were *not* standard USB controllers) and one PC would see a folder on the other PC as its own hard drive. I think those were PCI, though.

[@1969elder]

Don’t forget the RLL’s also. Oh and if you have any that are trash. They have “ONE HELL OF A MAGNET” in them. My most favorite drive to take apart. Well it was. Can’t find them anymore.

[@jacobw446]

Anyone know if this will see a hard drive larger than 500mb, without making the partition smaller? My 4gb drive loses 3.5gb of usage.

[@AtariBorn]

Ha! I had a 20 megabyte hard card. I was so disappointed that I couldn't fit Windows 3.11 on it. I was convinced that Windows would perform better on its own hard card.

[@scharkalvin]

It's not totally true that there were no 8 bit IDE drives. In fact, there were a few drives that had an 8 bit data bus with an IDE or ATA interface. There must have been a few interface cards made for them, or perhaps some motherboards had the 8 bit IDE interface on them. Maybe one of the Tandy machines? That old drive sounds like someone pissing on a briefcase.

[@TanjoGalbi]

Sod in UK slang is short for sodomise, so soddering can be taken as an alternative to sodomising. Now do you see why we laugh at you Americans for saying sodder instead of solder? Get it right so you don't get laughed at by the rest of the English speaking world :P

[@RobShinn]

Hey! Glitch Works hasn't had the XT-IDE kit in stock for about a year. At this point I don't think they're going to stock it again. Any ideas how to get one?

[@AnOfficialAndrewFloyd]

There may be hidden files under Paradox. Find and unhide them with a utility, copy to where they belong, and rehide. Or find a crack program.

[@Christopher-N]

(15:22) I'm sure the LEDs could have been modded to the PCI bracket, linked to the card with wires were it necessary, but who'd see them back there?

[@kooky216]

Thanks for showing the old business apps.

[@glufke]

I worked with Paradox 3.5 from 1994 to 1995. First job as software developer.

[@MagnaRyuuDesigns]

Are you able to remove the harddrive from the hardcard? if so I think one of these would work as a replacement. (if the drive has an IDE connection to the pcb on the card) www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-ADA45006-Compact-Adapter-Enclosure/dp/B0036DDXUM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1536041678&sr=8-5&keywords=compact+flash+ide

[@DeadMouseis]

get norton utilitys for dos..run ndd d: ,oh read errors hit AUTO and it will copy all readable data to new places ...then copy

[@SirWolfCZ]

Nice soldering! You don't need to sacrifice one of your slots. Just buy a "Compact Flash CF to 3.5 Female 40 Pin IDE" on eBay. The adapter can be connected directly to a connector of your XT-IDE card without any cable. The downside of this solution is that the CF card is internal, not accessible from outside, same as your MFM drive.

[@ModernClassic]

That's why I bought the adapter that I did; I want access from the outside. In fact, you can see in several shots that I have exactly the CF adapter you're describing (check 9:18) - I just didn't use it.

[@tommyb.6064]

Is there a combo card, ide with cf slot onboard for such things where a cf card could be used as master and a drive connected the header set to slave?

[@lyonadimral]

I'd be curious to see how this would work (if at all) inside of an IBM PC 5161.

[@RogerBarraud]

Did you try SpinRite with the old HardCard? - You might get lucky! :-)

[@j.t.illingworth7925]

1:18 when your uncle is in the bathroom

[@ducksonplays4190]

Ew XD

[@alainyeoh4416]

Lol @1:38 it probably sounds better if you say 1999 after the song. Most of the kids today dont even get what you say. lol

[@spidermcgavenport8767]

Dos rocks, try getting ems support like emm386.exe with a page frame set, now that's a challenge. thank you for this build and review.

[@spidermcgavenport8767]

CGA Eye of the Beholder will play fine on your PC.

[@TheEightBitLink]

Given the CF to IDE adapter is mounted on the other side of the bracket, it might be possible to merge them into one single card slot.

[@KatriceMetaluna]

Has anyone made a single board to integrate the XT-IDE and a CF adapter onto a single expansion card?

[@fisqual]

I found a hard card in a scrap pile years ago and it lives tied up to the wall in my cubicle. I've never owned a computer that could use it and always have wondered if it still worked and what might be on it... But i know that I've scrapped many of these 15 plus years ago and it honestly makes me sick thinking about it. ...it was freaking awesome to see one in action though.

[@ModernClassic]

If you haven't used it in many years, it's almost definitely dead - these drives are known for stiction. Mine was stuck when I got it but it luckily unstuck itself... now, though, it's definitely going through bearing failure, which as far as I know is unfixable.

[@KACPER050599]

I think you are using too thick solder wire. 0.7mm or less will be good ;)

[@MsJinkerson]

I love the way you told others about the proper way to pronounce the words maybe the British should take lessons from us

[@Paul-gz5dp]

I would recommend that anyone soldering should use smaller diameter solder, and no more than half the diameter of the pads being soldered.

[@twoquickcapri]

I had the same problem when installing DOS 5.0 with a XT-IDE on my Tandy 1000 TX. To get my system to work I partition/formatted a 32 meg CF card with a DOS 3.2 disk and then installed DOS 5.0 to that partition. Then I added a second larger CF card and partition/formatted it with the DOS 5.0 install. So I ended up with a 32 meg C: drive and a 256 meg D: drive

[@ModernClassic]

I don't mind just blowing up my current partition to make one big one now that I've backed it up to my modern desktop. My current problem is just that I don't physically have DOS 5.0 and can't easily get it on this machine without just buying a real copy of it on 5.25" disk. I'm not sure what the Tandy 1000TX supported, but the original IBM PC was pretty limited in its storage options, including floppy support, or I'd just use a floppy emulator or make disks on another machine. I'll figure something out, though; I'm still running through my options trying to do it for free with what I have, but if I have to just buy real disks, I'll do it.

[@paulstubbs7678]

Interesting, I've gotten an old 386sx going curtesy of a CF card, however XT's are harder as they don't have the bios routines for HDD boot, hence your cards ROM. You've kind of got me interested in digging out an older PC and having a go. As for the sodder/solder thing, I found your pronunciation quite acceptable to my ears, I'm from the soLder side of the world and have just learned to live with it. However I was watching a renovation video the other day and cracked up when they said pergola. As for the composite colour thing, I'm amazed IBM didn't have a way to display the same colour's on their RGBI monitors, it carn't be that hard to make a fudge box. I live in Australia, where we use PAL instead of NTSC, the artifact trick only works with NTSC, so I never knew of it till I saw it on the net.

[@ModernClassic]

I'm in the same boat but in reverse - I never knew the NTSC artifact trick *didn't* work on PAL until I was looking up games that I could install to test it out on this PC. I happened across that info by chance; I had just never thought of it before. So I guess you guys just don't have access to seeing those games in 16 colors? I'm still kind of amazed that somebody even figured out that you could use the NTSC signal in that way, and give computers powers that they otherwise wouldn't have.

[@CubicleNate]

I really have to take the time to get my IBM PC going. I started to work on it but then summer arrived so my project focus shifted. It has 2x 5.25" drives, no HDD and I have a great green monochromatic screen for it, which still works. Whenever I do get it working, I want to try this version of Linux on it too. I figure, I will have plenty of space to dual boot: elks.sourceforge.net/

[@ModernClassic]

I guess if you do want to run Linux, that's the best version for the original PC. I'm curious how well it runs and what you can do with it. (I guess if you only run the command line, you can probably do a lot.)

[@CubicleNate]

Most of what I would do would be in the terminal. As neat as a modern machine is, it is pretty good at distracting you too. I need to find a network solution for this 5150 as well. So, the uses I have planned for it would be: Distraction free writing, IRC and simple terminal based web browsing. I have no need for a color screen, I quite literally just want to use the green phosphorus monitor I already have. If memory is limiting my ability to do any of those, I can SSH into another box and use those resources.

[@FlintG]

That drive sounds like a old person farting lmao.

[@NuntiusLegis]

You seriously think younger farts sound better?

[@BillAnt]

^^^^ baahaahaaaa

[@xnonsuchx]

My first HD was for my Atari 520STm...cost me a total of ~$580 for the 32MB RLL drive mechanism + drive controller + ACSI-to-drive controller host adapter (ACSI = Atari Computer System Interface) + external HDD enclosure. I remember going to a local ComputerLand store asking if they sold bare drives and after them asking me what I was trying to use one with, they said, "You can't connect a hard drive to an 'Artari'" and that I needed an IBM PC or Mac for that. And that's when my abhorrence of IBM PC/Mac snobs began! ;-)

[@irdmoose]

With ancient drives like that Hard Card or my two ST-225's, the only way I've found to keep them running (at least from a data standpoint, mechanically is another story) is to use SpinRite from Steve Gibson. I have a license for the latest version, and he maintains a back catalog of versions that he will send you for free. The latest version is only about 256K and has even saved my SSD RAID Array once or twice.

[@greggv8]

I used SpinRite to salvage a few drives. With newer drives the trick was to FDISK then do a FORMAT *without* checking for errors. That was the only way SpinRite could make newer drives do a hot spare swap for truly bad sectors.

[@simplelifediy1772]

ok... I need to find out how to use VirtualBox to preconfigure Compact Flash Cards

[@ModernClassic]

To be honest, it really was not easy. I don't even know if I could do it again if I had to now. It took about 3 weeks of trial and error, studying up on different things, and frustration to get it right. And I don't remember how I did it now.

[@adamkepinski]

What about the other way around? Is there a way to connect a MFM disk to relatively modern PC? I've got 8bit ISA controller for it, but ISA slots are rather difficult to find on computers later than P3/P4...

[@retroretiree2086]

There are PCI to ISA converter cards. Startech do one I'm pretty sure.

[@sarreqteryx]

Possible fix to using 2 slots. since the IDE card is oriented for XT/AT/ISA, and the CF adapter is oriented for PCI, could you get away with not using the bracket on the IDE card, and seating the CF adapter in the same slot?

[@ethanpoole3443]

Sarreq Teryx If he did not mind the CF card being internal (and less accessible) then there are other options as well, such as plugging an adapter into the IDE connector or modding the rear of the chassis with a slot for the CF card and eject button and just mounting the CF card adapter to an open area on the rear of the chassis. Or even spinning a version of the ISA adapter that includes an onboard CF or SD Card slot (though CF is much easier to interface with IDE since CF Cards are just a miniaturized IDE device).

[@TheAuriconGroup]

Could I use this adaptor, but instead of installing a CF card, install a solid state drive?

[@Deinonuchus]

The problem you had was not running debug to low-level format the hard drive. Newb. Damn, I miss my old Seagate ST-4096 drive.

[@ModernClassic]

I hope that's a joke.

[@1337Shockwav3]

Hardcard is not MFM but something proprietary. Fun times I had when I was asked to back up the media from such a card a while back. Luckily those hdds are still "ok" with being opened for a short timespan and it just had the issue of the heads being stuck in the parking position. Used an XT-CF as a replacement. On the IBM 5155 I serviced I had DOS 3.2 as the original system running and a copy of DOS 6.22 just in case. Both were installed on different partitions which could be selected by setting them active. Keep in mind if you use DOS 3.2 with Windows7 or higher, it will detect the FAT12 as a faulty floppy (as FAT12 remained the choice of partition type for pc floppies) and fuck up things.

[@ModernClassic]

It's actually an MFM drive with an RLL controller, which is one reason why they're so unreliable.

[@TzOk]

Every HDD since ST412 has been using MFM read/write method with an RLL encoding. Early drives were using RLL 1,3, later ones RLL 2,7. Only a SD Floppy Drives were using FM instead of MFM which is RLL 0,1. IDE drives also use RLL encoding. In the ST-412/506 times there were technically no difference between MFM (aka RLL 1,3) and RLL (aka RLL 2,7) drives. Some drives were certified as RLL capable, but in practice there was no difference between ST-251 and ST-277R (there was a ST-251R which was a different drive). The capacity and transfer rate were only dependent on the controller used.

[@brocktechnology]

This is very interesting, but were not really talking about modern storage, IDE drives and compact flash cards are both profoundly obsolete at this point.

[@ModernClassic]

Not sure you're getting the point here.

[@zarkeh3013]

Hey! I got one of these!!! and Soldered only the ROM sections, U9, U10, SW2, RP2, R3, R4, C8,C9,C10, and C12. I had a 16 bit and 32 bit controllers and didn't need the 8 bit portion so, left it off! Flashed to r591 and now can config from a floppy. Very happy! Make Retro MODERN again!

[@laharl2k]

You should try puting the hard card on a pentium 3 with isa anf run linux and then dd_rescue to copy and try to recover the most possible out of the old hard drive. Id say recover with record once or twice. Let it try a while and once you see it wont anymore, try placing the hdd on the fridge and once cold try quickly again to recover the remaining sectors. Sometimes failing hdds work again witj changes in temperature.

[@ModernClassic]

I may try something like that. I'm in the process of putting my old Athlon system back together, and it has a single ISA slot. But, it seems like it's just that one app that has problems (I tried it again tonight in the PC), so it might not really gain me much. I can just download Paradox 3.5 from somewhere; it's abandonware at this point.

[@danielgeno6624]

SIR, YOU ARE AWESOME. i bought one of these kits on ebay last year, and i have never opened it because it came without instructions on what to do , and how to solder the damn thing. besides even after soldering everything there are jumpers that i just dont know how to configure for my old IBM pc. With your video i might be able to finish the mod. THERE IS ONE MORE THING, SELLER DID NOT SELL EEPROM FLASHED, SO YOU HAVE TO FLASH IT ON YOUR OWN WITH A METHOD LIKE A NETWORK CARD.

[@collingray748]

This was an extremely useful video to me, as I was just struggling with trying to get XT-IDE card working with my CF Adapter, I even used the same CF adapter! It's annoying that I have to find an original copy of DOS for it to work, but I guess its always interesting to have the physical disk. Also, do you know what the power input on the CF adapter is for? I thought that it must be necessary for the card to work, but given that you didn't need to use it, I assume that it must just be for if you plan to use a slave drive.

[@ModernClassic]

The power input is there for controllers that don't supply it via pin 20. One of the jumpers on the XT-IDE is actually to set that. So if you have a CF adapter that can't take power that way, you can change that jumper, and likewise on the CF adapter, the port is there if the controller doesn't support it. Luckily in this case both do.

[@collingray748]

Ahh, my CF adapter is the same brand as yours but mine has no pin 20, that is what was confusing me. Thanks.

[@jacobw446]

Want it to solder better? Take a toothpick and put some solder flux paste on each pad before you go about soldering it. Then just use some flux cleaner to clean the back of the board when you are done (should do this anyway).

[@ModernClassic]

See my pinned comment :)

[@randomnickname721]

When soldering DIP IC it is recommended to skip every second leg and solder them in second pass. This way there will be less thermal stress. There is good video about it called: Basic Soldering Lesson 7 - "Integrated Circuits: The DIP-Type Package"

[@sundown79]

Not sure if someone already mentioned it but a trick I use to have bigger disks under MS-DOS 3.x etc is to use Disk Manager (from Ontrack). Not sure if it runs on an 8088 but I am pretty sure I have used it on one of my XT's once. It splits up your drive and makes one partition in a size that IS supported and installs a special driver on it to allow access to the rest of the drive in the form of D:, E: etc.

[@reluttr2]

Since the ide connector on the adapter board just sticks straight out the back if you ever wanted to reinstall the serial card all you would need to get is one of those straight ide to CF adapter boards and plug it in. It would just internalize the flash and make the formfactor more like the hard drives.

[@ModernClassic]

I have a CF adapter like that; I just want to have external access, which is why I'm using the one in the video.

[@Wintersky136]

Could you please give me one good reason why your haven‘t fluxed the board and quicksoldered the package components in one go... you‘re taking way too long to complete the job...

[@ModernClassic]

Because this is the way I chose to do it.

[@Wintersky136]

Modern Classic Hobbyist... ;)

[@Mikeywil0003]

This device is a godsend for XT class machines. Will you ever make a video of using this XT-IDE on your Tandy 1000. I'm a Tandy enthusiast, and I have wondered how well the XT-IDE works on a 1000, especially the newer ones that have a disk controller onboard.

[@GeoNeilUK]

I'm British, we pronounce the L (but not the R on the end unless we absolutely have to) but for me hearing you seppos say sauderrrr is a bit like seeing you spell words like colour or favourite without the U... something you adorable colonials just do... I wouldn't mind a modern kit to build a genuine retro computer, whether it be an IBM XT PC, a Commodore Vic 20 or 64, a ZX Spectrum or a BBC Micro or Acorn Electron. Who's with me?

[@kaitlyn__L]

GeoNeilUK - The British Isles has a pretty healthy mix of rhotic and non-rhotic accents, though I'm guessing by the way you said "we" that you grew up in (maybe still reside in?) an area which has a non-rhotic accent. And of course RP is non-rhotic as well.

[@ModernClassic]

A modern kit probably won't happen, but I have always wanted to build a genuine kit from those days like the Heathkit H89. I don't imagine there are many unbuilt kits still floating around.

[@greggv8]

But there is a re-creation of the 256K IBM Model 5150 motherboard. Comes in a solder everything yourself kit. At the price, I bet it's less (adjusted for inflation and in 1981 VS now dollars) than what IBM charged for a replacement board back in the 1980's. I'd rather see a re-creation of the final version of the Model 5160 XT board where 640K would go onboard, plus add a 10Mhz Turbo function.

[@MsJinkerson]

I loved the heath kits build your own televisions or radios and the like

[@AndehX]

I'd say you were using the right amount of solder at the start, towards the end, you were using way too little imo. You have to remember, this is through-hole stuff. The solder is supposed to flow through the hole to the other side somewhat. It's not supposed to just sit where the soldering iron is. So you have to add slightly more solder than you think is necessary to allow some to flow through the hole.

[@ModernClassic]

That's why I was using more at the beginning, but I ended up fouling the socket and there did end up being somewhat big blobs on the other side.

[@AndehX]

yeah you just have to get a feel for how much you need. It's very much a skill that comes in time

[@nekokonekosama]

This is exactly the thing I need for my XT clone, I got it working the other day but the harddisk is on the verge of dying (lots of bad sectors). I have a CF card (although it's 16GB which is definitely overkill but might also just not work) but I now need one of these cards. Shame I already spent pretty much my retro budget for this month so I suppose the XT will have to wait until next month or so before I'll be going back to that. Just a question, what CF card are you using? Since with CF the card can actually make the difference between it working in a solution like this or not (since the CF card is the part that should correctly implement the IDE standard and apparently some newer cards don't do this correctly)

[@Architector120]

"ポケっト さくら" > "pocket sakura" box on the background it's a some kind of tamagotchi game?

[@ModernClassic]

It's basically a pedometer with a tamagotchi-like component. Pedometers were all the rage for a while, before cell phones had motion sensors. It was a novelty.

[@CaptainDangeax]

Modern Classic : one hobby tip for you when you solder DIP packages. solder pin 1, then solder opposite pin, then reheat each pin while pushing on the component, so the DIP is tighten to the board and then you can solder the rest of the pins. for pin jumpers, have a bunch of jumpers to hold the 2 rows together while soldering. And finally, the top tool for soldering : FACOM 153 Brucelle

[@SimonEllwood]

This looks like a single slot alternative: www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/XT-CF-lite_rev.2

[@npsit1]

This is pretty cool. I have a few 386 machines that I should add this into. I'm sure those drives won't last long. They're already old.

[@dwayneattard5265]

Install MS-dos 6.2 or 6.33 Version 5 had issues with the 8088 processors

[@ModernClassic]

There is no dos 6.33, unless you mean PC DOS 6.3. I considered that but 5.0 runs fine on 8088s. MS-DOS 6.22 is not available in 5.25" disks, which means I'd have had to install 5.0 as an intermediate step anyway before installing 6.22 in a VM. I could still do it, but I don't have a reason to; 5.0 is doing fine for me now.

[@Eo_Tunun]

1) You should have extra flux available. There´ s never too much flux in a soldering job! I have a little bottle of liquid flux here, there´ s Soldering sticks and pens and Soldering Honey and what not. No matter which of these, it helps you. I soak the pads and contact holes with flux via Q-Tips. There are better ways. Just get the gunk in there! The joints will look much, much nicer just like that. 2) Flux makes nasty stains. Get Isopropylic Alcohol. The purest stuff is the best, allthough 96% won´ t kill your soldering job. Got myself a litre of the stuff years ago, still have the better part of it left. It´s great for cleaning metal and killing mould as well! 3) Apparently the failure rate of ICs after soldering can be reduced by soldering pins that are as far away from each others as possible in sequence. 4) I want an old computer now. Nice one! ^^)

[@ModernClassic]

I have both alcohol and flux. You can see the containers at different times in the video :)

[@Eo_Tunun]

Yay! :oD Then the solder just was old? It´s so easy to get nice, shiny concave joints with the right stuff, I don´t see why yours look a bit uneven. Should have been fine and dandy. Anyhow, it verks. It´s good enough. Everything beyond that is fetishism. (But I do get excited at the sight of really neat shiny concave solder joints. Ju… ju… only really just a slight bit. o.0)

[@elibitrick]

no some Americans say sodder and some/myself say solder

[@nerfspartanEBF25]

Does this piece of hardware work on a 5170/AT?

[@Toasty_Gaming]

yes

[@Bewefau]

Kinda sucks you have to go with the flash storage route. Or can you use a normal IDE hard drive with this kit? You can still buy them for cheap right now. "eventually it goes into place trust me on this " XD

[@ModernClassic]

You could, but there are many disadvantages to doing so. Still leaves you with no easy way to move software back and forth between computers, for example.

[@tin2001]

Pulling IDE drives in and out was how we moved files around when I was in school. We left our lids off to save time, and had jumper settings memorised on the drives we usually used. Old times.

[@brocktechnology]

In my neck of the woods the local nerds would route and IDE cable out behind the front panel at the bottom to plug into a hard drive sitting on the table.

[@bbloching]

maybe you want to go left-right-left-right while soldering those DIL chips. makes the job a little easier.

[@ScrotumPole]

you could try spinrite to try and revive the drive enough to copy it.

[@lennaertedens4624]

I love watching people solder stuff, it's like those oddly satisfying videos but for computer nerds!

[@MattIsTheCat]

How did you use Oracle VM virtual box with the compact flash card as the drive? I get Virtual Disk Service error: The operation is not supported on removable media. When trying to offline disk for passthrough.

[@ModernClassic]

I'm not sure if I linked it in this video (I did in later videos), but I used this guide: theinstructionlimit.com/installing-ms-dos-6-22-on-a-486-without-a-floppy-drive-using-a-cf-to-ide-adapter

[@MattIsTheCat]

​@@ModernClassicIt would appear that I am stuck at partitioning, I will wait half a day because it does show disk activity but otherwise I do not know what to do.