Flint Dibble, Joe Rogan, Graham Hancock, and What Comes Next

#realarchaeology #GrahamHancock #joerogan #archaeology
A candid discussion with Dr. Flint Dibble about how he prepared for and carried out his debate with Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan Experience. We also discuss what's happened since the debate, our feelings about guys like Dan Dedunker, and where we go from here to promote quality science communication.
Apologies parts of the footage of my video were corrupted, so some long shots on Flint listening to me talk because of it. You didn't miss much, I promise.
/ flintdibble
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[@karlarden6260]

My goodness… the statistic that Atlantis is more engaged with than the Acropolis, Sphinx, Stonehenge, Pompeii, Alexander the Great, Pericles…. Classical Academia has its work cut out for it, thanks for taking this head on, Professor Dibble!

[@deethebee80]

Do tell us about the sphinx and Stonehenge ?

[@FlintDibble]

Thanks for the great chat man!

[@ArchaeologyTube]

It was such a great conversation - looking forward to our next endeavor!

[@Txalcoir]

Graham hancock has been in big oils pocket from the jump.

[@darkmatter6714]

Flint, have you heard about the Barabar caves?

[@blackholesun3569]

Love you Flint! 😃 🙌🏻 🏆

[@EbonyPope]

@@ArchaeologyTube Flint Dibble is a coward who repeatedly lied and accused Hancock of racism and white supremacy. These claims are easy to check. Think of Graham what you will but the tactics Flint used were the lowest of the low.

[@archaeogremlin]

I fully support Flint's online public archaeology carnival idea

[@ArchaeologyTube]

It should be fun!

[@geraldcoffey3303]

Flint nailed it on Rogan

[@itsnot_stupid_ifitworks]

Excellent points throughout

[@arithecat2991]

Flint Dibble is a good man.

[@danhallett4952]

If you’re into arrogant liars then yes!!!

[@EbonyPope]

Flint is an liar. He clearly made connections to white supremacy repeatedly but can't take it being called out. That is very clear when you read what he wrote about him.

[@nicholaslindley1982]

Thank you, Flint, for appearing on Rogan. I am a perfect example of the kind of person you were trying to reach. I'd listened to Hancock out of curiosity before, and seeing him fumble to respond to your clear evidence was incredibly revealing. Thank you again.

[@slewcharles926]

The rebuttle ......... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnbIaGWEn5J0jZIsi=_MtXtzS6bnFamqM2

[@nicholaslindley1982]

@@slewcharles926 Thank you for taking the time to share that. I'm halfway through and Graham has already made some good points about Flint's arguments. I would definitely be interested in hearing them converse again.

[@slewcharles926]

@@nicholaslindley1982 if prone take away the anger and attacks on each other , maybe people can see that we are all trying to learn the same thing ...... what really happened in our past .....

[@fightshrub8872]

I became interested in archeology (particularly the debunking of it) from my roommate and I watching Flint on JRE. That led me to following other archeologists and using work and examples from both of you in a psuedoarcheology project I did. Thanks for your contributions and great talk!

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Thanks for all of your support and kindness!

[@AncientAmericas]

Really enjoyed this interview! Thank you for doing this.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Thank you!!

[@EbonyPope]

@@ArchaeologyTube You don't happen to know what happened to the comments I posted? Strange. All of them are gone. Flint Dibble is a coward who repeatedly lied and accused Hancock of racism and white supremacy. These claims are easy to check. Think of Graham what you will but the tactics Flint used were the lowest of the low.

[@KinkellaTeachesArchaeology]

Great interview! I have argued against the dumb “platforming” argument so many times. The pseudoscience people have the platform - They’re actually platforming us! Stay strong my friends.

[@blackholesun3569]

Thanks for having Flint Dibble on. I love him. His Rogan debate with Graham Hancock has made him a bit of a heroe for me. What he did there, and the manner in which he did it, was so impressive, and really inspired me.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

It was my pleasure! Flint has become a good friend and colleague over the last year or so so it's very easy going to chat.

[@blackholesun3569]

@@ArchaeologyTube yeah...he is great to listen to. Very fun, focussed, and engaging. Such an asset to archaeology, and the art of thinking & using reason.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

@@BonSkirmish1312 okay

[@ArchaeologyTube]

@@BonSkirmish1312 just okay. Just acknowledging your very important addition to the conversation.

[@Manbearpig4456]

😂😂😂😂😂 sad times for you having an exposed liar as a hero.

[@FlyinRyan231]

Loved the Jre debate! It brought me to ur ch Flint! Always good to hear both sides of ANY story! But, i wont be paying u 8.99$ to view ur content.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

Great chat! Subscribed.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Thanks so much!

[@user-wb7nv9ht1g]

I actually saw a channel claiming to debunk the debunkets. Not sure you've seen it and im sure you're busy working etc.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

That’s Dan Richards who we discuss in the interview. He sucks. Like I mean as a person. In his soul.

[@fightshrub8872]

Dan regularly goes after both of them (& many others) on Twitter. He is kind of a bully but acts high and mighty.

[@migoreng7789]

i still don't get why pseudo-science is so popular when legit archeology is already super cool 😐

[@ArchaeologyTube]

I’m with you!

[@vapormissile]

Paradigm anthropology and archaeology are fun, in an abstract fantasy fashion. Like arguing about Star Trek canon.

[@handeggchan1057]

I think It's because pseudo-archeolgy constructs a very linear and easy to understand narrative, like a movie or comic book, that is more comforting than the actual complexity of archeology, ESPECIALLY early bronze age and earlier that we don't know a TON about relative to later eras.

[@brettswanson5976]

1) it’s fun to think you’re smarter than the experts. 2) it’s fun to think you have secret knowledge. 3) it’s fun to believe in things that are mysterious. 4) narratives are fun. Grand narratives are funnest. Real archaeology has narrative to it, but not usually simple fun grand narratives.

[@eatfrenchtoast]

Paranoid content is an interactive medium.

[@ryann6067]

Thanks for posting this interview. Its great to hear you both discuss this podcast debate on JRE.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

You’re very welcome!

[@EbonyPope]

@@ArchaeologyTube Of course he did draw a line between Hanock and White Supremacy. He walked it back a little but is still seeing Hancock as inspirational for many white supremacists. From his article WHY I TALKED TO PSEUDOARCHEOLOGIST GRAHAM HANCOCK ON JOE ROGAN: Hancock and other pseudoarchaeologists center White Europeans as able creators while chalking up the accomplishments of other peoples to outside influences: the Atlantis civilization, aliens, lizard people, or the “lost” empire of Tartaria. Real archaeology inoculates people against the online and in-person racists who take Hancock’s polished presentation of a mysterious civilization and twist it into overt white supremacy. So you still want to deny that?

[@MrD0od]

Thank you for doing this Mr Flint. Thank you for being brave.

[@EbonyPope]

Flint Dibble is a coward. He repeatedly accused Hancock of racism knowing full well he had nothing to do with it. He still wouldn't own it during the debate.

[@Eyes_Open]

Thanks for posting this. I first saw Dan as a commenter on the Potholer54 channel. He gets nasty when he does not get his way. Anyways, great talk.

[@leavingmarks]

Who is dan. I know potholder 54

[@Eyes_Open]

@@leavingmarks Dedunking channel.

[@rs1803]

@@Eyes_Open Man, that guy is a f**king idiot. The audacity of an electrician who thinks he knows more than the consensus of archaeologists.

[@ryann6067]

@@kevindiliberto9678interesting thought, given Dedumbking quite literally has no clue what he is attempting to talk about in his pseudo-history/science videos. He is astoundingly mis/uninformed about what he attempts to critique or what ever his rants are.

[@adifferentwayuk3335]

Great interview, really interesting 🙂

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@robswright68]

The Kerplunker might be the worst person I have ever encountered.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

I like "kerplunker." That's good. I'll make sure to cite you.

[@ryann6067]

Thats a good one. Ive been referring to that ignoramus as “Dedumbking”. He didn’t like that at all 😂. He’s very thin-skinned.

[@anniealexander9911]

I like that Flint always references the British universities. Now that I don't work at Swansea Uni I can say "yah, Cardiff!" (Flint will know what I mean). Given that knowledge exchange was added to a lot of contracts (despite universities stalking staff's social media) Flint is quite a catch for Cardiff.

[@ryann6067]

Thank you both again for posting this interesting discussion, and the work you do. I had missed the tale-end of it and just rewatched now. The idea of an interdisciplinary and mutually supportive archaeological-content creator and educator “Fair” or “Circus” would likely gain considerable interest, support and viewership. Though, one thought regarding a “circus” reference. It flys too close to “circus clowns (🤡)”. And may open it up to relentless attacks by the pseudo-crowd, calling it a “clown-show” and referring to participants as “clowns”, etc., due to that. -As you both point out, these folks look for and go after the lowest hanging fruit in these discussions and attack it ad-nauseam.

[@timothyconnors3225]

Great interview. Jesus, what an echo chamber.

[@darkmatter6714]

I would like to know what Dibble’s thoughts are on the impossible precision of the Barabar caves.

[@Eyes_Open]

Impossible precision is a good term. The caves are described by entertainment channels as having impossible precision. Which of course is not supported by evidence and therefore impossible.

[@gregor299]

Impossible precision is a made up thing.

[@LanceHall]

Academics can't just sit on their papers anymore they need to be on social media. Flint is our bulldog for truth.

[@MichaelPK03]

You mean there butts anymore. They should be doing fieldwork not involved in debunking drama.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

I've been in the field since May.

[@MichaelPK03]

@@ArchaeologyTube Good! It’s what you went to school for. No reason to crap on others for a differing opinion on some things you studied. Flint said we have combed only a % of the Sahara. We honestly don’t know bleep for the most part of our ancient history.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

I haven't crapped on anyone's differing opinion. I have pointed out when someone's opinion is wrong.

[@MichaelPK03]

@@ArchaeologyTube Flint was wrong a lot in that debate and has been written and talked about enough showing the flaws in his arguments. I’m no Hancock fanboy. I don’t believe half the crap he spews but some of it does make me think well, he has a point there. I don’t like the way he handles archaeology in his Netflix doc. He seems petty bringing up your field every two seconds that is off putting. To most people. So is the dogmatic approach flint has had though too. Luke Caverns best young up and coming archaeologist. Doesn’t crap on others or tell them your wrong I’m right. He discusses with open mind.

[@TheBrewjo]

I'd suggest one thing you've both almost touched on with Hancock's lack of response, is the fact he's got minions to do the dirty work for him post debate.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Yeah we could have been clearer about that but that’s basically what Dan Dedunker has become. For all his talk of debunking both sides, he’s spent the last few months mostly running defense for Graham

[@EbonyPope]

@@ArchaeologyTube Because Flint is a coward. He openly associated Hancock with racists and he would not own it. Think about Hancock what you will but accusing him of racism or white supremacy which Flint has done repeatedly needs to be pointed out. I quote: Real archaeology inoculates people against the online and in-person racists who take Hancock’s polished presentation of a mysterious civilization and twist it into overt white supremacy.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Okay that’s true though. Like that’s just a true thing Flint said. I think it’s pretty brave to say true things out loud myself.

[@TheBrewjo]

@@ArchaeologyTube Ha, I think your comment was intended for someone else amigo. But I'll still throw in a like to feed the youtube alligator rhythm

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Oh yeah I was replying to @ebonypope

[@handeggchan1057]

Honestly, Rogan did seem super receptive to Flint and Hancock (though I think he's a kook) seems like a nice dude. I think stuff like Flint did is great for countering conspiracy stuff and the like. I'd Honestly love to see Hancock debate a more "out there" theorist that thinks the pyramids were built by aliens or whatever. Would make Hancock have to play the "mainstream" side, as he is far more grounded than many of these alternative archeology types.

[@ZachFury]

Lol that’s such a great idea! I would love to see how he’d approach that. It would probably be nothing but self-defeating arguments (i.e. there’s no evidence for aliens, therefore we can’t suggest aliens built the pyramids)

[@TT3TT3]

🙏

[@newman653]

Like any debate each side presents its evidence & puts forward it's argument & let the people draw their own conclusions .

[@ThePolyesterPimp]

I haven’t gotten through the entire video but I hope Flint elaborates on his experience with the Souls series 😉

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Sadly, we didn't get into video games. I'm not even sure if Flint plays!

[@HkFinn83]

Flint, don’t get involved in the minutiae with these KZbinrs and trolls. If you respond in any way to their silliness that’s a win for Hancock. Then he gets to portray the whole thing as a ‘debate’ about details and so on. Stand back and let people see your encounter and leave it at that. There’s nothing to debate.

[@arithecat2991]

Remember that bald tattooed guy? Was pretty random wasn’t it?

[@konsumterra1]

as a kid i loved non fiction books publishers did books for kids like cars, inside the earth, animal life and then all the BS mysterious stuff like ghosts, monsters, ufos, lost civilisations and treasure. All this stuff is presented as the same level field of fact to children - we were told books were authoritative - It is no wonder ppl get into archaeology from this source - it was later old weird men gave me self-published books on the hollow earth and i saw this stuff as a cult. Yes uni dealt with psudos in lesson one with Indiana jones outside this ppl go their whole life without challenging these ideas

[@ArchaeologyTube]

I honestly think this is an important point. We treat this stuff very flippantly with kids, but as far as pseudoarch and pseuohistory go, they get presented as this blurred line between fact and fiction. Probably this is true for other things as well?

[@Txalcoir]

Dibble da goat

[@Manbearpig4456]

What happens next is flint should stop telling lies and discuss his apparent evidence factually.

[@MrWeanie]

His weanie is still sore from having it slapped numerous times by Dedunking on his debate lies

[@deethebee80]

Flint dibble is really unlikeable- he’s latching onto Graham Hancock as his giving him exposure.

[@nebo1186]

Flint man, dont stress yourself

[@suggadeg]

Dibble is way too self satisfied and pompous. He is the epitome of why people question the narrative of people like Dibble. He is a very passive aggressive child. Super insecure.

[@Eyes_Open]

Attack the person when you can't refute the evidence. Well done.

[@suggadeg]

@@Eyes_Openit’s not like I attacked the way he looks. They are character observations. I’m definitely not wrong. He is off putting. And a prime example of Uber liberalism in academia.

[@Eyes_Open]

@@suggadeg You and I do not personally know the man. However, I see someone who I think would easily fit in to a casual social gathering. I see intelligence and empathy. I also see many people who want to believe that academia is wrong and that people like Hancock are correct because reasons. I don't know what forms your viewpoint.

[@suggadeg]

@@Eyes_OpenI think you and I have fundamentally different ideas about people. I don’t think anyone knows exactly what happened in antiquity. I don’t have any cemented opinion, one way or the other. I see dibble as a man who wants to be right more than anything else, and make people who disagree with him look foolish. Hence, pompous. Also, he has made social justice a part of his identity. History shouldn’t be attached to any ideology. So, yeah, I don’t think very highly of his character. I see someone who is trying very, very, very hard to be right and make others look foolish. I don’t see empathy at all. I see vanity.

[@Eyes_Open]

@@suggadeg The goal of Flint is to open up knowledge to the public and demonstrate the illogical narrative of people like Hancock and the shady tactics of for-profit alternative gurus.

[@skiptrailer7048]

before and after what? snails..........

[@ArchaeologyTube]

You could watch the video to find out!

[@dougmorrow746]

Really? You're blocking my earlier comments? Really, just because I criticized Flint?

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Nope haven’t blocked any comments on this video

[@fightshrub8872]

KZbin sometimes filters comments into a "potentially spam/harmful" folder that you have to hunt down and review one by one.

[@dougmorrow746]

@@fightshrub8872 Thanks.

[@virgiliustancu9293]

The pyramids are mentioned more than other monuments because it is still not clear how they were built. All kinds of archaeologists who have never built even a dog house in their life, imagine that building a pyramid with stone and bronze tools is something easy. There are a lot of things that are inexplicable. How can you move the stone box from the Serapeum? I want a demonstration too. Take two such boxes and change their place in the technical conditions of the respective period (no electricity, no cranes). Make a demonstration of this kind if you are real archaeologists and not just some officials guarding a gate.

[@Eyes_Open]

You somehow still believe that Archaeologists work in isolation from other disciplines. You may want to see a live demonstration but are you willing to pay for the entirety of a project?

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Why make a comment like this when you aren't willing to check if any of it is true? No archaeologist in the world would say building the pyramids was easy. Archaeologists often work with scholars from other disciplines including engineering. Some archaeologists have extensive training in engineering themselves. Archaeologists, along with interdisciplinary teams, have demonstrated different techniques that would work for building the pyramids through experimental archaeology.

[@MediaFaust]

Having been a stone mason for thirty years, I've built quite a lot of things that are relevant to the subject matter. I feel no doubt or even curiosity about how the built the pyramids -- and all the rest of the stuff, for that matter. It's basically just work. Lots of it. You should try it some day.

[@virgiliustancu9293]

@@ArchaeologyTube This is not true, this is only wishfull thinking. They demonstrate nothing. All the example are on stones under one tonne. You eat your own bullshit.

[@virgiliustancu9293]

@@MediaFaust "Just work"... what you talking about?!? " I feel no doubt or even curiosity about how the built the pyramids" - Ok, then stfu because you only destroy your reputation, if you have one.

[@kristopha]

🤢

[@chrismasters1978]

Yeah but u guys also get it wrong, ALOT. How many times have archaeologists have had to admit they're wrong, or don't admit it and get proven wrong? Also why do u dress like a wanna be indiana jones?

[@ArchaeologyTube]

Sure. Archaeologists are wrong sometimes. They admit and work on finding the correct answer which is how science works. Not a common tactic on the pseudoarch side from my experience.

[@TheMph76]

As someone who likes to watch the pseudo-science stuff for purely entertainment purposes, to say the genre is a pipeline for qAnon and anti-VAX stuff is incredibly insulting. People like Flint Dibble and this host are the reason people don't pay much attention to real archaeology, because of how they frame people as ignorant or racist. It's just sad how they look down on the average person instead of actually understanding them. This whole podcast is them fighting something that doesn't exist and it's sad and pathetic.

[@ArchaeologyTube]

It is though. It's great that you're not a qanon or anti-vax conspiracist. I'm really glad to hear that. Sadly, you are not everyone who participates in pseudo-science. Many, many, many of the people who do do both. There is a lot of research on this topic. As someone who is on the inside of pseudoscience spaces, maybe do some work to reduce belief in dangerous conspiracies like that.

[@fightshrub8872]

As someone who has lost someone to QAnon, I can attest that the psuedoscience pipeline is real and can prime people in that direction. She started with Graham Handcock, moved to Jimmy Corsetti, and eventually was following Dom Lucre ane neck deep in QAnon. She is not the only once that followed that pipeline, either. I believe most people indulge in it for entertainment, and that can be fairly harmless, but the harm begins when someone seriously starts doubting science and experts. This opens the door for people to deeper down the rabbit hole where evidence is meaningless. Studies indicate that once someone believes in one conspiracy theory, they are more likely to believe in another. With social media and the internet being so prevalent in daily life, it isn't difficult for someone subscribing to one theory to be suggested to another via the algorithm or their social groups. I am glad that you can enjoy psuedoarcheology pseudoscience as a light-hearted idea. However, not everyone can. Some people are malleable, and stomping conspiratorial ideas out at the source is the best preventer of that escalation.

[@Manbearpig4456]

@@ArchaeologyTubewhat’s dangerous about believing in a lost civilisation? Thats right in dangerous to the pounding stones clowns like yourself because don’t want your dogma exposed

[@Manbearpig4456]

@@fightshrub8872why would you trust the archeological community when they preach fairy tales about the construction of the great pyramid. They dismiss the expert engineer opinions when the engineers laugh at the idea that the great pyramid was built in 25 years with copper man power and pounding stones

[@jonghistory]

Thanks for the upload! I think all of the subjects related to social studies have this problem... folks can learn from the Hancock's and Ben Shapiro's of the world rather than those actually literate, practicing, and having a professional background in these fields... now more than ever, communicating science, history, archeology, and so on matters--or else they'll learn from someone else 🥲

[@wayneleahy3331]

Flint is wrong on so many levels

[@Eyes_Open]

So many levels that you can't share even one level?

[@danhallett4952]

@@Eyes_Open I can, he’s a dumb authoritarian elitist think. All his arguments are in the authority therefore I’m right, that’s the issue. These people don’t have degrees, these people aren’t allowed to speak on these things. Just an arrogant elitist. Shut up with your authoritarianism or whatever m better than people and grapple with ideas. He doesn’t do this, it’s sad and pathetic.

[@danhallett4952]

Maybe he’s right, but have the conversation instead of dismissing through demeaning others as pseudo scientists. Nope all people are just people with ideas, seems he’s scared of looking wrong by people who don’t have the “proper” merits. A homeless guy could have bright insights, we don’t need elitist pricks.

[@Eyes_Open]

@@danhallett4952 You are creating a false scenario. Ideas are not the issue and credentials are not a default requirement. Use the proper methodology of accumulating data and testing it against your hypothesis to prove or disprove. Perpetual derision of academics while playing the victim is not how you gain credibility. It is however an apparent method of becoming wealthy through book sales and Netflix deals.

[@MrSubstanz]

The first level to mention is what Iain McGilcrist talks about in his "Master and his Emissary." Dibble is lacking this epistemological level that the master is supposed to rule. Instead, he like so many others, has put the emissary in control. If we only had the thought of "Oh, it's written in an old story, it's probably just a legend, we already know everything there is to know" we hadn't found troy yet. We probably hadn't found the Vinland of the viking sagas in Nova Scotia either (or was it Newfoundland, always mix these up). And I'm not even going to start on his medical insinuations, that are way out of his field of expertise. But he defends them nevertheless, because the gatekeeping is designed in a similar fashion. So you are wrong @Eyes_Open, it IS about credentials.