Flipsky 75100 teardown

[@helios_ja]

I want to buy one of these and this is just the video I wanted to see. I will be making as many of these modifications as I can in order to maximise the performance of my unit when I get it.

[@de-bodgery]

I abandoned discord...too much fucking drama!

[@helios_ja]

@@de-bodgery sigh. I was appalled when someone new came into the voice chat asking for electrical assistance and I tried to tag you and found you weren't there. Is there a business email perhaps we could get in touch? Many people are looking forward to how you mod the controller going forward. I wouldn't want to make a misstep and short a brand new controller...

[@de-bodgery]

@@helios_ja I'll post that here. I seriously doubt I'll be back on Discord.

[@helios_ja]

@@de-bodgery Okay.

[@flydr2]

Thank you this helped me... Just got 3 of these...

[@sysghost]

There's a V2 of this one now. It addresses some of these issues.

[@de-bodgery]

Some, but not all of them and still lacks ceramic caps!

[@softart5235]

please show how we can improve it ... (the Caps,shunt,phase wires & weather proofing). GREAT VIDEO thank you .

[@de-bodgery]

Flipsky knows what to do to make their products better. They choose to make them as they do.

[@Pryside]

Fantastic review. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight. :)

[@phylaxxx]

Hey man, Ive missed our conversations on the discord server. Very insightful video, my laziness ended up catching up to me and killing my 75100. Managed to fix it (one of the caps came loose to no ones surprise) and secured them alongside reenforcing the current paths. Looks like my bountiful quantities of hot glue weren't enough since the same issue happened again with a cap and this time the controller is dead. Looks like Flipsky are aware and are releasing a revision of the controller with a different casing which looks significantly more promising for thermal dissipation. Also has the advantages of removable connectors and USB C.

[@de-bodgery]

I abandoned Discord...way too much drama over 1 guy constantly trolling me. I had enough so I left. *** Hot glue gets soft when it warms up and doesn't secure things very well as a result. You need thermal glue. Once it cures, it will handle 400C and not burn. You don't care overly much about the thermal conductivity so this is fine for securing things or where "some" thermal transfer is needed. There's better thermally conductive glues, but this will do fine for securing your caps in the controller. www.amazon.com/GENNEL-Conductive-Silicone-Adhesive-Compound/dp/B07PVN1BC3/ref=sxts_rp_s_a1_0?crid=38KR20V1HKX98&cv_ct_cx=thermal+glue&keywords=thermal+glue&pd_rd_i=B07PVN1BC3&pd_rd_r=1ac4f715-30a3-4182-8f5d-e6865bf1c633&pd_rd_w=5klBH&pd_rd_wg=mmgtj&pf_rd_p=4bf4bfb7-01d6-422f-8e64-ff8707d77d6c&pf_rd_r=NW43V7VKWMMQVQ9HMKM5&psc=1&qid=1650647435&sprefix=thermal+glue%2Caps%2C163&sr=1-1-5985efba-8948-4f09-9122-d605505c9d1e *** Where did you see the revisions Flipsky was making?

[@phylaxxx]

@@de-bodgery Hmm seems like my VPN might have caused my reply from a few days ago to be removed. I was hoping the caps wouldnt get as hot as the FETs since the controller starts rolling back current when temps hit 80°C and the melting point of hot glue is right around there. It actually didnt end up melting in any noticible way just broke off. If that was due to it softening I cant say but Ill be using the JB Weld steel stik stuff that I use on my halls for future reenforcement of caps. I was beating on that scooter really hard around some super rough paths so Im really not surprised the controller failed. The new 75100 design is linked below. Seems to be a significant shift in design as it doesnt seem thick enough to fit the same caps and the last design. There is also a raised USB C port for some reason but I cant see that being a huge issue when the phase wires also stick out a fair way. flipsky.net/collections/electronic-products/products/flipsky-75100-with-aluminum-case-based-on-vesc-for-electric-skateboard-scooter-ebike-speed-controller

[@de-bodgery]

@@phylaxxx Be careful of JB weld. They contain metal and that's conductive. You might just short out your controller and that's just as bad as having broken of caps! Thermal glue is the proper glue for this application. It's thermally conductive, electrically non-conductive and can be removed again later if needed. *** The new 75100 is like most stuff that Flipsky makes and unfortunately almost impossible to water proof! GRR! I'm still baffled at the name "75100" when that's not really applicable! They are 100v max controllers in either configuration. The name ought to be "100-100" like Tampa does with the 100-250 or "84100" since their useful upper voltage is really about 84v. No idea what Flipsky is thinking there since this diverges with the naming convention they have used with everything else! The 75200 from them really is a max of 75v, NOT 100v like the confusing names for the 75100 controllers. LOL! That USBC port is weird...why did they do that? Should be nearly flush with the top of the shell. OH well...it is USBC...so that's an improvement over the ever lasting micro USB ports that are ancient tech!

[@phylaxxx]

@@de-bodgery Ive used this specific JB weld on plenty of other eletrical items and its been fine. Its technically conductive but I doubt any of the voltages in that controller will be high enough to actually cause an issue. As much as I would like to simply order some thermal glue off Amazon I cant because Amazon doesnt ship here and no one here sells it for a reasonable price. The joys of New Zealand... I agree that the lack of waterproofing options is annoying but its a tradeoff for price and compactness I guess. Its not difficult to get an aluminium water resistant enclosure in any case. I also agree the naming scheme is a pain. Not sure about that USB C port but at least its a socket and not a cable, I slightly pinched the cable on the last unit and that caused comms to act a bit funny depending on the angle of the cable.

[@de-bodgery]

@@phylaxxx Yeah cool...marine jb weld has no metal in it either. It's the regular JB weld and JB kwik that have metal in them. *** New Zealand...beautiful country! I've always wanted to go there. Hawaii is like your country. Everything is imported if it doesn't grow there and so it costs a lot to get it. I shipped some stuff to a friend in Hawaii a few years ago. The shipping cost 2X what it cost compared to what it cost to ship across the country. *** I was hoping that someone would start making VESC controllers that were in the same form factors as most EV grade controllers so they could be used exposed to the weather. I'll have to do the same...make a box. Agreed...rather have the USB port built in than as a cable.

[@vellu5051]

I think shunts at the bottom are for measuring phase currents low side, they are not parallel.

[@sysghost]

That is indeed correct

[@meganguerra-cd9gj]

Great videos sir. Can you helpme please Whats the biggest motor can match continuosly

[@IDontgiveafuck-l3b]

120 amp

[@samdash3216]

The quality of this review if through the roof. You killed it bro! Thanks a ton! Do you have modding tips on what we should do to prolong the life / solve the heating issue? I already have this controller and love to mod it instead of ordering new one.

[@de-bodgery]

I did 3 videos on mitigating issues: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmrQiZKOoLeFptk kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnmpZ4hngdyjbdU kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4a1p35pjrWXoMk *** I never made a video on one detail. I tapped the internal heat spreader for M4 screws. This gave me the ability to mount the controller to something else by its mosfet wall. I later machined a chunk of aluminum that screws down direct to the mosfet wall and then is a mounting bracket that puts that hunk of aluminum onto the cast aluminum of one of the swing arms. I now have a pretty huge heat sink for the controllers! I'm betting I never have over heating issues.

[@samdash3216]

@@de-bodgery Oh, sorry I missed those. Will check them out. Thanks a lot!

[@Simon_Rafferty]

While I agree with some of what you said, I've found these to be very reliable running close to 75A Peak. I was concerned about the non-reinforced PCB Tracks, but looking at it with a thermal camera, they barely heat up more than the bus bars - only a few C difference. I've been running one on my e-Bike for 4 years, ridden every day - and it's been fine. Even the heat transfer to the shell works sufficiently well. Maybe it could be better, but in practice, it doesn't need to be better. The waterproofing is an issue. The best way to solve it is to fill the case with Ray Chem 'Magic Gel'. It doesn't seem to affect the heat dissapation but renders the whole thing IP68. I've run the controller fully submerged - and it didn't miss a beat! I also filled the battery casing to waterproof the BMS. I rode my bike through a flood with water over the handlebars, so the controller was about 2 feet under the surface. The motor needed a bit of drying out - but the controller & battery didn't miss a beat. The wires being on connectors means you can 'weed' out the wires you're not using - making the harness much tidier. With the addition of waterproofing, these are my favorite controllers.

[@de-bodgery]

Ever spend any time looking at the monitoring functionality? You'd quickly discover that Flipsky makes the MOST noisy VESC controllers you can find and the least reliable of them! So that's great the one you have is working, it's not working as well as other VESC options...not even close!

[@jacobclark89]

Will this thing over heat if installed in a 3" tube that is 2' long with no vents

[@o.m.2188]

Perfect video, bro! Exactly what I was looking for. This controller is already on my list and now I know where and how I have to optimize it. Do you plan to create a vid of the upgrade process? I don't want to produce a short or something. Would be highly apprechiated!!!

[@de-bodgery]

yes...that's the plan

[@helios_ja]

Awesome! Looking forward.

[@phylaxxx]

Might want to take a look at the version with the new enclosure if you havent ordered yet. Looks like it might be able to handle the heat a bit better then the older version.

[@FourValveFox]

Have you played with these much? I have a few of them and they just are not making any torque on a 1500W hub even if you set them to a max 1500 phase.

[@de-bodgery]

Considering this is a 100a controller, you already know that 1500a is not ever a possibility! Since turning up the phase amps had no beneficial effect, you also know that this isn't going to fix anything. You have something else wrong...not sure what.

[@THEPAINOFITALL]

Do you recommend a good controller for a 72 volt 5000 watt hub motor? TIA 😉

[@de-bodgery]

Tronic 250, Trampa 100-250 are both good options, but more powerful than the 75100. I'm just now implementing 2 of the new design 75100 controllers. They are OK, but not anything special.

[@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э]

Hello. Is there a good similar controller on sale that does not need to be finalized?

[@de-bodgery]

Finalized for what? I don't understand your question.

[@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э]

@@de-bodgery I meant not to redo it. Are there better quality?

[@de-bodgery]

@@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э Flipsky is the lowest quality VESC options. People buy them since they are so cheap and not because they are any good. If you want VESC controllers that are made well, stick to Shul, Trampa, Tronic.

[@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э]

@@de-bodgery These firms do not have the same form factor. I need a controller for an electric scooter outside.

[@de-bodgery]

@@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э There is an extremely high chance that you will have to make something fit...even imperfectly. These controllers don't exactly fit my scooter either.

[@jkrsecret]

Thanks for sharing. Is the thickness of the board enough to handle the power?

[@de-bodgery]

That's the point of the copper reinforcing...not that it was done right from the factory.

[@jkrsecret]

@@de-bodgery Are you still using them? How they perform?

[@de-bodgery]

@@jkrsecret They are not yet implemented beyond some bench testing. They will soon be installed on the scooter. This project is many faceted of which just one part was the controllers.

[@jkrsecret]

@@de-bodgery I have a 5600w e-scooter.I saw the controllers but I was skeptical as there are reports of overheating. I believe with the upgrades that you made, won't have any issues. I already pursache a bigger battery 16s-40A 3C constant discharge. I'm in for a smart bms with uart so I can connect it with the controller? Also it as to be on smaller size as there is not a lot of space left.....

[@de-bodgery]

@@jkrsecret Those reports are not wrong...they do overheat. This video explains why. I did some mitigation work to mine and they are much better now. Also they will mount to the cast aluminum swing arms and that ought to soak up any heat quite nicely! Smart BMS...I've never considered what might work with VESC controllers. I don't know that I want that and besides, is that better than the app that comes with the smart BMS? I've been using JBD BMS's for quite a few years now and they work pretty well and the latest android app is pretty solid. There are lots of JBD options. You'll probably have no problem finding something the fits your needs.

[@sleepingbearffg5008]

Hello. Was thinking of using with 20s 72v and 3000w brushless 50amp motor. ? Will reinforce like you recomend.

[@Bucky15690]

Are you using a my1020 motor? I did the same build

[@flosa1995]

Mine just blew after 7 months 50-80A at 20S, so seems decent enough for how bad it looks lol, upgraded to the 75200 now

[@de-bodgery]

Probably over heated

[@flosa1995]

@EV Components Review (De-bodgery) Can be, looks like one of the mosfets or corresponding low side shunt blew since both are damaged and the trace between is gone Worked fine, when I tried to use my bike a few hours later the motor wenn instantly into reverse and then just small movements and buzzing sounds Motor setup high offset current sensor 2 error and unbalanced currents After that I found the hardware failure

[@de-bodgery]

@@flosa1995 It sounds like the issues I mention in these tear downs are what you have in yours. Are you in the USA? Want to send me your controller for a forensic tear down? Showing the predicted failures is one thing. Showing the actual failures are the same is entirely different!

[@flosa1995]

@@de-bodgery Hi, sadly not Im from germany, I can provide you with photos if that helps you, I cut the mosfets off, at 2 mosfets the traces at drain were gone (with that also the traces to the corresponding diode at gate) plus on another the trace towards towards the low side shunt. The mosfets themselves looked fine besides being covered in residue

[@de-bodgery]

@@flosa1995 Bummer!

[@jacobclark89]

I think that they should put more space between the throttle wire pins , humidity can cause issues with sensitive throttle connections , that's why all ebikes should have a kill Buton that's close to the hands Incase the bike motor runs by itself at 0 throttle

[@de-bodgery]

GH1.25 is commonly used on most things from Flipsky. That's even worse. On these controllers, I replaced all the connectors with IP68 ones so I didn't care what was on them originally.

[@ЛенарБилалов-ю1э]

Makerbase Vesc 75100. Is it even worse in execution?

[@de-bodgery]

Makebase and Flipsky are one and the same.

[@cantal88]

Hello, I'm very interst about about Your plan use this 2controlers for Dualtron City. You will use two of them? Interst so much how this project go in future. Please, let me more know about. Thanks.

[@de-bodgery]

I've posted several more videos on this build after I made this in April. I'm averaging a video about every 2 weeks or so.

[@bj97301]

Good info. Do you make controllers? If not you should. I bet you could make a good quality controller.

[@de-bodgery]

I could help make good controllers, but there is many things I don't know and I would need major help with them.

[@electronicsworkshawp]

lmao those bars are doing just fine.

[@joblessalex]

Is this thing as powerful as a full size 7kw controller? Seems like BS that it could possibly handle that kind of power in that small of package. Even if you upgrade all the current paths and keep it cool....

[@de-bodgery]

Short answer: Yes Long answer: This is a 6 fet controller. The continuous leg limit current is 75 amps for the TO-220 package. 82v x 75 amps = 6150 watts. The die limit of the mosfets is much higher than the leg limit. In a non-continuous use case such as a motor controller, the leg limit can be exceeded by another 10-15 amps without causing excessive heating and that's a maximum of about 7380 watts. This is assuming you have an efficient way to remove heat. These 75100 controllers don't have very good cooling and people do have issues with this. If you watch my other videos on this controller, you'll see how I mitigate that and so 6000w should be quite possible since heat removal is greatly improved.

[@joblessalex]

@@de-bodgery Nice. Just hooked mine up, but it's acting like crap. Feels like maybe 400w. It'll whine and stall randomly. Ran the setup a couple times and set up 70A battery and 210 phase.

[@de-bodgery]

@@joblessalex Yes well this is FOC. It is quite possible that you need to do more than run the setup wizard to get proper operation. On my City which has 2 of them on it, it's not running like I want either. However, I knew going into the build that FOC commonly needs tweaking to get the power I ought to have. This isn't some dumb trap or sinusoidal controller. It's complex motor control that can be excellent. I've been messing with FOC controllers for a number of years and this is pretty common. Some people the motor wizard is good enough or even perfect and not for others. Welcome to the world of FOC!

[@joblessalex]

@@de-bodgery Super fun.... Any recommended readings or someone to run me a crash course?

[@de-bodgery]

@@joblessalex google about VESC PIDs. Also, there is a terminal in VESCtool where you can send commands to the controller. google about that too. As far as a teacher...experience is the best one. Screw with settings, experiment. Read the descriptions for every feild in VESCtool that you don't know about. Worst thing you will do is blow up the controller. Yeah that sucks, but it's also a great way to learn. I usually get mad when I burn out stuff, but at the same time, there were valuable things I learned in the process.

[@Zomby_Woof]

If anyone is having oddness in the behavior of this device, i want to point out two problem areas: 1> Flipsky doesn't proofread their docs, and every wiring diagram they have for this device is wrong. Every One Go look at them and then your device and you'll see what I mean. If you are already intimately familiar with this controller, or are just plugging cables in om a very vanilla install you may not notice, but if you are doing any custom wiring (required even if its all flipsky, but you are using their display) you'll quockly be frustrated. 2> Do not rely on the function of vesc to figure oit your phases. If you are having to use the reverse toggle in vesc because your motor is running backwards, just stop and correct the phase connections. It only rakes a minute or two. I was getting cogging on start that was awful Different degrees in different modes until I corrected the phases

[@de-bodgery]

you might have found a bug in the Flipsky firmware.

[@Zomby_Woof]

@de-bodgery There are so, so many apparently. And I managed to do something stupid. The controller abruptly stopped working last night with a blinking red. Couldn't connect via USB. Dis infected everything but power and was able to connect. Decided it would make sense to start with the hardware specific fw. I couldn't see any file sizes, buy I right clicked, downloaded- twice - same file size. And of course it turns out you have to click the file - then there's a dl button. Cripes. First time I've seen a fw update with no sanity checking whatsoever. So, it reboots, vesc tool connects, then bit he's about the fw being unreadable (no shit - you loaded random garbage) and disconnects. Good thing I have an st-link arriving tomorrow. I think my dediprog could load the fw, I've just never used it for swd programming.

[@de-bodgery]

@@Zomby_Woof Sounds like the FW on it is corrupted. good thing there is an SWDIO connector so you can get the controller back!

[@Zomby_Woof]

@de-bodgery oh, it's not corrupted - it's not even firmware. It just html because I wasn't paying close enough attention. I sorted that out though. But my error would not clear, and it points to the motor. I ended up pulling the hub motor apart because it had basically seized. With a pair of vice grips of the flats of the axle, I could barely turn it. So I pulled the commutater out and I can see scuff marks, but that doesn't tell me a lot. I think it's out of round. Probably because I waited too long before putting a good torque arm on it. I'm not going to bother to measure it to verify this. With no machine shop, the only option I have is a hail Mary with sandpaper to try and get enough clearance for it to spin free. I have some ferro fluid, but I'm not going to bother with that unless and until I can verify some measure of reliability. I'm not pushing it hard enough where the motor ever gets hot anyway.

[@de-bodgery]

@@Zomby_Woof Replace the bearings. A torque arm isn't going to create that problem. Either the motor shaft is straight or it isn't. That and bearings are about all that will cause rubbing of the stator with the magnet ring. I never use ferro fluid...waste of time, messy and can't be removed later.

[@predragbalorda]

"10 augh"? Not 10-gauge?

[@de-bodgery]

??? 10 AWG

[@KismetMookz]

I always have temperature problem with this 16s battery

[@de-bodgery]

??? This video is about the Flipsky 75100 motor controller, not a battery. I'm not sure what you are commenting on.

[@joaquinninoortega8023]

@@de-bodgery i think hes talking about the esc even with 16s. Im curious if you have modifications and used it. is this fsesc really worst than generic esc for scooter? that's what im curious about.

[@de-bodgery]

@@joaquinninoortega8023 Worse? Not a chance! Imperfect with some poorly implemented aspects? Yes that is true. People do have issues with them over heating and burning out if they are not improved. I did a couple of videos on the fixes I did to mine. The issues can mostly be resolved without a lot of trouble.

[@joaquinninoortega8023]

12awg is enough for phase wires.

[@de-bodgery]

Why do you think that? Ever look at an AWG chart to determine the current carrying ability of X diamater wire? 12 awg is rated for 9.5 amps continuous. Go look up "awg current chart". You'll find these charts easily. 10 awg is a little better at 15 amps continuous! So yeah...they NEED larger phase and battery wires!

[@AlkayMusic]

@@de-bodgery The load is shared in a three phase configuraiton so thinner wires can carry the same load (power) than the positive and negative wires coming from the battery

[@de-bodgery]

@@AlkayMusic The current isn't shared. Any 2 wires are carrying the current across the motor at any moment in time. At most that you can say is that at any moment in time one of the 3 phase wires isn't powered.

[@45llamas]

@@AlkayMusic You're absolutly right

[@Mainstream818]

Those wires look like silicone wires which can handle significantly more current. More on the lines of 40-45 amps. Silicone can handle UpTo 200C therefore the current rating is higher. The current handling you mentioned is true but for regular PVC insulation cables. Anyways great video

[@npharkes]

Dissapointing for 65USD? Did you get what you paid for?

[@de-bodgery]

Still junk. You pay a low price to get crap. Cheaper isn't better!

[@electronicsworkshawp]

no

[@SiFFon-h2j]

ХЛАМ!

[@de-bodgery]

Rubbish...yes...pretty much. Many details neglected and not well designed! They are repairable. I think now that I've reworked several details on mine they will work fine.

[@minalobudeshte]

Can you show us on video the reworking process please?