FM23 Youth Intake Analysis 3 - Youth Preview

[@AxxSir]

The only channel that deserves a like before even clicking play. Amazing in-depth analysis.

[@AxxSir]

PS: I would love to invest in a patreon page or even a small donation for all your time and effort.

[@Biquetpoyon]

@@AxxSirWould 100% subscribe to a patreon too.

[@Biquetpoyon]

I'm absolutely delighted I just discovered your channel (partly thanks to Zealand "stealing" your work). This is something I've always needed. There have always been SO MANY myths about FM. It suffices to look at the FM subreddit and the popular beliefs it maintains. I'm so happy someone takes the time to investigate it all. Thank you!

[@d-law868]

I am in another camp, I think his investigations shows that’s it is so logical as it should be, Cred to the people at FM :)

[@zeyadmahagna1394]

The Sports Interactive team do such a poor job in the forums or elsewhere of dispelling myths, they seem to like keeping them out there. Lately more devs have been talking about how the game actually works in the forums which is nice to see. A game like FM needs an official wiki from SI at the very least.

[@thanaphatusjonousmaxima4273]

Again & Again & Again & Again & Again always worth to see and also thank a LOT My MythBuster

[@Alex-wh3zw]

What a tremendous work. For FM, this channel is second to none imo.

[@craigdavis5818]

This is fantastic. Your confirming things I have thought for the longest time I just didn't have the desire to put in the amazing amount of effort you have! Kudos pal.

[@macaco3001]

The fact that determination isn't affected by the HOYD is a huge find! I've been looking for professional HOYD with high determination, but I can just look for Model Professionals instead! Great work

[@fccadoni7304]

Higher Determination attribute does not impact players Determination; since many FM versions. Don't know where you have heard that off, it's also in manual description as well: Determination "The mental desire of the coach to succeed. This isn’t a coaching attribute in terms of coaching a player’s mental approach - this is the coach as an individual and their own innate drive to better themselves and the players they work with." Mental Coaching Attribute "The ability of the individual to provide the right help (particularly in backroom advice) when working closely with players. It also determines their skill at coaching mental attributes."

[@whothehellishooch]

Awesome video yet again. A good youth intake is such an important part for me to keep on playing a longterm save. Own youth instead of bought wonderkids is much more pleasant for me. You can maximise your changes, but it will be still RNG that determines the outcome. And sometimes a new intake can feel like a kick in the nuts like a 3 star intake with 20/20 facilities and Boada as HOYD, club 4,5 star rep.

[@robijnwasverzachter4489]

Hey EBFM, solid video as always! Maybe in a future video you can look at the possible correlation between the HOYD preferred tactic and see how that influences the positions of the youngsters coming through. Ive heard from a couple FM youtubers that it can be influential but without a proper analysis we wont know for sure.

[@baiisun]

Yep, good suggestion.

[@afsoc4life]

Agreed. I was looking out for this.

[@arrontrevor7086]

I'm currently doing a Youth-Only challenge and today I got my Youth Announcement for Season 4. It was considerably better than the previous three. This season I finally managed to get my board to increase the junior coaching level after many failed attempts to do so. In other words, right in line with your findings in this video!

[@bladeshot9983]

@ebfm you should test, cities/regions/nations with different population ranges. and the effect that partner clubs give since sometimes you get a tooltip that says "one of the 16 regens is the best player from a partner club "

[@ataberk9590]

I am so happy I found you, mate. It is amazing how much work you put into these experiments and data analysis. As a physics major, I also am interested in this side of Football Manager. Finding a fellow evidence based analysis enjoyer makes me so happy. Keep up the good work.

[@Chicken_of_Bristol]

Does the club personality have any effect on the attributes of the newgens you get in your youth intake? I'd also be curious about a similar series of videos related to mentoring. Some things I'm curious about on that front are: -Is there any benefit to having more than the minimum number of players in a mentoring group when you're trying to improve the personality of a young player? -Is a mentoring group's effectiveness dependent on the young player playing games or is it just as effective if they're sitting on the bench? -Is the "estimated effect from group" field when you set up a mentoring group accurate? -Are there particular attributes that contribute to overall mentoring effectiveness (such as the mentors' teamwork or leadership, or the mentee's teamwork?) -Can mentoring improve traits other than the ones that define a players' personality, such as consistency and big matches? -Does the difference in value between the mentors and the mentee's attributes affect the speed at which a mentee's attributes improve or only cap the total effectiveness of the mentoring? For example, if you have an umprofessional young player in a mentoring group with two fairly professional older players, will that player improve to fairly professional at the same rate as they would if they were in a mentoring group with two professional players? -Does training routine affect mentoring effectiveness? For example, can community outreach and team bonding training sessions help mentoring? -Does training intensity affect mentoring effectiveness? -Is mentoring hampered by player injury, either for the mentor or the mentee? -What effect does being in the same training unit have on mentoring, if any? -Is mentoring affected by playing performance, training performance, or morale? -Do facilities affect mentoring at all?

[@johnmcclane5561]

I had seen some dev's answers on SI forum for previous versions of game. 1) Club personality affects only existing players, this should be considered as a tool so that after a while the player could join the collective if his personality differs. It does not affect guys who don't "exist" yet. 2) As soon as young player take part in ~100 official games the influence of the mentoring group on him decreases, and his own increases, regardless of his age. So even if he is 20 but is considered as regular squad player he will not drastically change his personality, but he still be able to learn some traits from mentors and become friends (favorite persons) with them. 3) Training sessions don't affect mentoring, BUT training groups do. Obviously you want your young ST to be mentored by a player with same tasks on field. I mean destructor mentored by destructor, number nine by number nines, etc. I hope you get what i mean.

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, all good suggestions. Mentoring is a frequently requested topic. I haven't had a chance yet to look into it. Will make a video on it (hopefully) soon.

[@TableTopWolf1984]

I think you need to add in affiliates with your next test, ones with the youth training from different countries

[@EnsoHenzo]

man, your videos get me scratching and itching like a crack addict. cant wait to see what youve discovered

[@kierdoyle]

Would suggest showing how the effects stack. Looks like a lot are a +-10 CA/PA boost, if you have both is it +- 20? Multiplicative? Even if it's just "and here's 1 season where we made the perfect intake conditions" or whatever

[@Chengyuan79]

Yah. Will be lovely to see a golden generation thingy. Even if just-for-laughs(-or-wows). 😅

[@baiisun]

@@Chengyuan79 I don't think you can have all your youth intakes being wonderkids even with everything maxed out and only one club in the country. Could be interesting to test though, just for fun!

[@davidrichards613]

Also if scouring knowledge or nationality of HoYD can influence the nationality of newgens.

[@carlosantunes7757]

amazing work with this research! what about the affiliate clubs? they have some kind of influence on the youth intake? In the case of FC Porto, for example, the affiliation they have with Dragon Force in Colombia. Almost every season, a newgen with high PA of Colombian nationality appears.

[@baiisun]

That's very interesting indeed! And it makes sense, which would actually give actual usefulness for those affiliates club.

[@christianwilson3718]

Just like FC Nordsjælland's affiliate RTD Academy in Ghana. They get 7-8 Ghanaian youth intake players each year that are usually really good.

[@AppleSauceGamingChannel]

I have no systematic analysis on it, however, having affiliates from leagues with lower reputation has provided my teams with essentially the cream of the crop of youth players from those countries. One year, with youth affiliates in S. Korea, Japan, Poland, Croatia, Romania and Greece I had the best player of each of those countries for the following 15 years come all at once in the same u19 team.

[@baiisun]

@@AppleSauceGamingChannel Fantastic! Quick questions: did you have these leagues loaded as playble/viewable? And did your HOYD or whoever is in charge of youth intake had any scouting knowledge of those countries/and or what is your club knowledge of those countries?

[@christop2735]

Came across your channel just weeks before the whole Zeeland thing. You do some really great work, and it is great to see a evidence based approach to all of the FM "myths" out there. A personal myth of mine is that the game sometimes just decides to throw a wrench in your wheel. Not that it happens a lot, but more than a few times I have had, lets say, my starting LB get injured, during a training, a few days before a match. Only for my backup LB to get injured a day or two later, also during training. I curse the FM gods when that happens :D

[@johnmcclane5561]

Hello comrade. I have to say smth about u19 staff personalities. You faced right way but didn't come to an end as i think. I've made little live experiment while was playing fm20. You see at some point i've managed to get in my crappy team a model citizen coach (after 4 seasons he became u19 manager). He was a french guy out of contract from, i believe, some arabic academy. Every other u19 staff had mostly balanced personality ( i was rushing for attributes). While browsing intake i mentioned a few guys with good personalities, which had this french coach as favorite person (information tab) right when they "enter" game. So i took my eyes on this situation and look over every season. You know what? For almost 20 seasons in EVERY youth intake EVERY guy, who liked this model citizen, had at least fairly good personality. Moreover one of this young players was perfectionist from Iraq while my club was from North Ireland and didn't had knowledge about this region at all. This frenchman was the only guy with mediocre knowledge of middle east and asia. I "believe" that knowledge, reputation and personality can affect intake in long term. Maybe it will be more noticeable for HoYD (as with prefered formation). Though i can't imagine how to create a somewhat scientific experiment to confirm/refute it unconditionally. Things are already too complicated and tricky. I hope you get what i mean correctly. Thanks for your content.

[@psychotic17]

12:55 There's a guy named Thanos in there. What a power move by the parents.

[@nategiacoma3031]

Other possible factors: City size High rep clubs close by Overall great vid

[@chrisk2505]

*New Save Idea" How much the workload of the trainers (Light, Average, Heavy) affect the growth of the players or injuries.

[@Butlee]

Thanks for another interesting investigation.

[@deciodasilva3960]

Good information man...very useful, thank you

[@ludbzh4029]

congrats as always

[@Aragorn3390]

This is wonderful! Confirming so many things that were thought to be effective and also bust a few others. Excellent work. Maybe not for this video, but I'm also interested in Nation's Youth Rating changing over time and what are the main things that make up Nation's Youth Rating (is that where competition reputation is important, or WC results, etc.).

[@Noah-wk7hu]

Thanks for the good work🥹

[@jeremyh2652]

Top work! Would love to see a passing/posession oriented study working to identify which settings/attributes maximise possession and achieve 1,000 passes per match

[@azgast]

I didn't see any mention of this in the three videos: newgens are first created with their PA on national level and then distributed to the clubs based on their Youth Recruitment rating (with some randomisation involved of course). So Youth Recruitment is relative to other clubs in your nation.

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, I've done some additional work on YR which I'll go through in the next video. Yes, it does seem that YR determines how newgens are distributed to clubs that belong in the same league.

[@mateusgapski1327]

I was wondering why judging current ability and potential ability would be highlighted as important in our HOYD's. Would it be possible to test the correlation between players star ratings on the youth announcement day, and their actual CA and PA ratings? I'm wondering if having a model citizen HOYD, but with low judging CA/PA might mean he values wrongly on the star system and it hinders our true assessment of those players.

[@ParetoEmperor-jp6ke]

dont forget board visions to clubs, some traits that head of youth department had in managing the players like tends to have alot of youth in first team trait, size of city and neighboorhod of clubs in one city, country ranking, and former legendary player or famous coach that have attractive traits to youth in board or coaching team or scouting have impact to popularity for youth intake

[@Draddar]

Not specifically mentioned in the results, but it is there on the graphs: HOYD scouting knowledge has no effect. I know many are hesitant to swap HOYD for a "better" one because the new one doesn't have knowledge of the country.

[@baiisun]

Well 0.6 CA value less than Control, it is not that significant indeed, - 1.5%, but it would require a lot more trials to actually be able to conclude it has really no effect. But I tend to think it makes sense to not have any impact since, the HOYD is not actually scouting all around, but selecting. That's why professionalism has an impact and not scouting knowledge in my opinion.

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, yup I didn't mention the results specifically in the video, but HOYD scouting knowledge seems to have no effect. But in these tests all other leagues were disabled, and all 8 teams were based in the same city (Amsterdam), so maybe scouting knowledge doesn't play a big role? In the future videos I'll try varying the geographies of the clubs and enabling more overseas leagues, perhaps scouting knowledge will become mor relevant then.

[@baiisun]

Also, I've seen reports of people hiring foreign HOYD and having bad intakes and then after a year and then getting better and better, it could be luck or it could be related to other factors, scouting knowledge might be the less important one, language can be a big one, relationship with local agent could be another.

[@milan-px5uq]

wow, great stuff!

[@christaylor9656]

Ty for upload and the great content ❤

[@MlemDotaPersonal]

I remember a few years ago when I heard about youth staff attributes affecting youth intakes, it was supposed to be in relation to 'freak' wonderkids in intakes specifically, not the group as a whole. That's gonna be time consuming to measure, but could be worth looking at since it would likely be drowned out in statistical noise when measuring intakes as a whole.

[@baiisun]

When you say youth staff attributes, do you mean all youth coaches or just the HOYD or the person responsible for youth intakes?

[@CapriciousStoic2]

@@baiisun Youth coaches ex: 5 coaches + U19 manager or Youth Coaching staff : U19 manager + Youth Coaches + Performance Analysts . I bit unknown but there are some myths. ( medical staff and recruitment U19 staff most likely do not matter ). Also sometime a Regen has favorite personal U18 Coach and i am thinking that the coach personality has specific influence on that Regen or maybe the capacity to finding players of the coach . ( Judging PA and Judging CA ) . Also CA of the coach ( stronger coach ) 3.5 start etc. of the coach maybe determines CA & PA of a Regen.

[@afsoc4life]

Brilliant work. The question then for me relating to HOYD is then which is more important - the personality or the attribute values? Then again attributes determine the personality ..

[@robertvries1]

Love the content mate. Cheers

[@akk-nd3vj]

great one thx lot

[@johnvs7169]

Just found this-great work and very informative. It would be interesting to experiment with the physical attributes of New Gens in correlation to the fitness attribute of the Head of Youth Development (HOYD). I mention this because I’ve noticed that top AI clubs in all of my saves have HOYDs with high levels in all attributes (Fitness included), resulting in 'athletic' youth players. Most good athletes among the New Gens come from those clubs. Could this be related?

[@footballmanager_arab]

Thank you very much ❤❤❤

[@오동광-s6h]

항상 좋은 컨텐츠 감사합니다 유소년 관련 내용들 보다보니까 궁금해지는게 멘토링인데요 포텐은 높은데 성격이 별로인 애들 멘토링시켜주다보면 시즌내내 돌려도 성격개조 안되는 애도 있고 한달 두달만에 좋은 특성 얻는애도 있고 멘토와 멘티의 나이 / 세력그룹 / 포지션 / 성격차이 등등 변수도 다양할거같은데 멘토링 관련한것 한번 다뤄주시면 좋겠습니다

[@ebfm]

안녕하세요. 멘토링은 자주 요청되는 부분인데 아직 기회가 없었네요. 이번 유스 관련 시리즈가 끝나면 시간이 되는 대로 도전해 보도록 하겠습니다.

[@azjacksoncleaning2272]

Great stuff Max, please consider doing research into consistency 🙏

[@benthomas1519]

I would love you to do a video on the transfer market. I have always been of the opinion that a small database and more active leagues creates more player movement and makes it easier to sell players. I find a lot of videos that suggest that people should load lots of extra players into the game but then they find it nearly impossible to sell. Of course my observations are purely anecdotal. I'd love you to put your skills to use in this regard. Maybe with a view to finding connection between playable/view only and small/medium/large database size

[@thomassje1233]

I would like a video on how you can increase the youth rating of a nation. In my Folgore save from San Marino my youth rating is rising slowly but surely but I would like to know WHAT exactly is triggering the youth rating to go up. The youth rating started at 29 and had increased 2 times by three and is now 35. So I really would like to know what is triggering the increase - wich by the way not happens every year

[@Imperialdo]

Love the vids! Have you considered testing the effects of your HOYD’s preferred formation and tactical style (both preferred and second preferred)?

[@baiisun]

Could be interesting indeed.

[@dixonnnn]

'apparently' your youth intake players will be able to fit into your HOYD preferred formation so it's good to hire one who's preferred formation is the same as your team play, although this could well be a myth.

[@baiisun]

@@dixonnnn Personally I wouldn't take the formation into consideration because before they reach the first team, there's enough time to mold youth intake players in what I need.

[@mememanfresh]

​@@baiisuntraining other positions wastes CA so no

[@baiisun]

@@mememanfresh is that so.. where did you see that? training an AMC into a MC, or a winger into an inverted winger on the opposite side doesn't seem to change much about the growth on my side...

[@notcontentwithlosing]

You should test how geographic proximity to other teams influences youth intake. Cause I think that's whats killing mine.

[@mastiff85]

I've heard something about this too... i'm not sure if is a legend or not, but it definitely deserves a deeper insight

[@davidrichards613]

It make sense. Clubs in cities where they share 2 or 3 teams would lose some talent to the others. Also the clubs rep in those cities should, in theory, affect which of them get the better players.

[@stephentaylor6617]

Just an educated guess here but using club reputation, Bayern Munich will attract better youth players than 1860 Munich for example

[@notcontentwithlosing]

@@stephentaylor6617 I have the highest reputation in the league by far, and have had for several years, but clubs close to mine will still have more luck snatching up wonderkids, even though they have lesser facilities and coaching.

[@stephentaylor6617]

@@notcontentwithlosing This is all guesswork on my end but there is supposed to be a Dynamic Youth Rating in the game. The game is still using the starting reputation of each club.

[@davidrichards613]

I'd like to know how the U18 or u23 staff personality affects players after they have graduated to the team through the intake as it makes more sense they would play a part then.

[@davidrichards613]

Also, if things like a U23 manager/coach discipline attribute have the effect of increasing determination or work rate, the way actively disciplining players can.

[@baiisun]

That could be an interesting test to make indeed.

[@jeffs5397]

Another amazing video. Will you work on the effect of a particular or some attributes on a player match performance? For example, there is a myth saying that position is more important than tackle for DC; shooting is not as crucial as anticipation for strikers. It won't be easy to quantify. It is fascinating and essential for us when we do player selection. Thank you so much for your brilliant work.

[@gordon9050]

Another awesome vid, do you have any videos on the affects of mentoring groups on player development and optimum setups of mentoring groups?

[@ebfm]

hey mate, no not yet. Mentoring is a topic that's been frequently requested. Will do a video on it (hopefully) soon.

[@matthewfox5263]

Good tests however you are missing one variable that would be worth testing which is foreign youth training through affiliates. It would be complicated to test but is very useful to understand

[@TubbyBrewster1]

Thanks, this is really interesting! Do you have any plans to experiment with recruitment focuses? Comparing with variables in the setup like regions, countries or leagues for the area of focus. Also, characteristics of scouts, such as country knowledge, personality traits, languages spoken. Suspect this could be quite a fruitful area for us all to learn about!

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, I believe recruitment focus just decides where your scouts do their search. I don't think it influences the youth intake. The scouting knowledge of your scouts / HOYD may play a bigger role. I'll have a look into it mate.

[@jasonnash1756]

Fantastic stuff. Maximizing youth coaching is clearly one of the most influential things you can do to help with intake. However, doing that in game is a challenge. I am curious if there are specific attributes of coaches that are more influential than others. If there are, you could target specific coaching attributes when looking for staff rather than just trying to find the best available overall.

[@auros4585]

Can you do a study on whether height has any effect at all on players with the same jumping reach, aggression, bravery etc.

[@Sebasstian98]

Looks like Nyck de Vries switched careers after the F1 release @3:39

[@tmnaaz4021]

I’d love to see if you could experiment with affiliate clubs for youth intakes? If they bring in more foreigners and if so are they good or bad players compared to your native countrymen? Or which clubs/countries are best to get affiliate teams in! I’m doing a youth only save and want to see if I, actually benefitting the club by having the max amount of youth affiliates

[@BhBc8f8]

Brazil has the highest youth rating in the game

[@davidrichards613]

Also, is it testable to find out how the preferred playstyle, formation etc of a HoYD might affect intakes, as its an FM rumour it has an influence.

[@baiisun]

Do you mean a HoYD with attacking playstyle and two forward formation preference would recruit more attacking players for example?

[@davidrichards613]

@@baiisun yeah, it's a hypothesis that's been around a while but if they're technical or attacking, playing a 4231 DM, then you'll be more likely to get attack minded players who'd fit the 4231 DM.

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, it's also something I'm curious about. There are few other topics I want to get to first, but I can possibly look into player positions / formations as well if I get a chance.

[@matthewtully7328]

haha love the matrix bit. can you exlain it for us like we're five years old?

[@zvonimirbrekalo1291]

Have a few suggestions which might break your brain heh The person conducting the intake usually shapes two new gens by his coaching style and personality. Was wondering what that coaching style changes. Also how often is the person conducting the intake influencing one of the better newgens, especially the best one. Additionally, you can get affiliates which give you their own newgan to train in your youth facilities. Was curious what influences the quality of those gifted newgens, and how frequently one gets them per number of affiliate clubs of that type. Thanks for the absolutely amazing and crucial work which makes all our gaming easier and better.

[@baiisun]

Great questions! How do you know for sure that the person conducting the intake shapes two newgens? and not more?

[@zvonimirbrekalo1291]

@@baiisun was just referring to the comment the person conducting the intake makes. Something to the degree of I have influenced these two players with my personality and coaching style which shows in their attributes

[@baiisun]

@@zvonimirbrekalo1291 oh cool, I haven't notice that comment before, when and where does it appear?

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, haven't heard before that the HOYD influences two newgens/season. I remember reading somewhere that sometimes you get 'freak' newgens every now and then that the HOYD 'takes under his wings'. I can look into it in the future to investigate. And yes lots of other people are asking me to investigate the role of Affiliate clubs. It will be done.

[@zvonimirbrekalo1291]

@@ebfm i was mistaken. The shaped by was removed in this version of the game. Was a staple for over a decade I think. There are three distinct descriptions of the generation and the generations best player The best player is described as Led by the talented The Very gifted The diamond Also, the generation is described as Whisper is quietly Has the makings of a golden generation Has a real chance of becoming a golden generation So there are either three tiers for the generation and best player distinctly, or it's all just cosmetics

[@DanielParreira]

Have you tried looking at the newgens via FM real time editor (the tool you are using?) Im pretty sure you can see the names etc of the players before the intake happens.. They are generated ahead of time. They are somewhere in the club ALL players section, I am sure of it from previous FM at least.

[@baiisun]

Oh that would be interesting, to see if from the moment they are generated to the moment they are given to you, there's a progression in their stats depending on your staff.

[@Speeky6]

I would like to know if the bonuses (goal, assist, clean sheet, appearances, etc) and clauses (goalscorer, team of the season, etc.) affect the players' performance in matches. These bonuses actually represent losses of a lot of money, so if they still exist, does it help or not?

[@davidrichards613]

Disappointing that some ofnrhe attributes can be changed at short notice and have a profound effect. In a realism sense changing the clubs rep etc would have a delayed effect.

[@n0tg]

do you know that you can reroll the youth intake players rating by reloading the save before the intake players announcement

[@ColonelAsshat]

GOATed fm channel

[@ukaszfurmaniak1555]

Max, as I answered to someone here recently. I think myth of sacking HOYD before intake, arise from that there is no one to properly judge newgen potential. From my rather anecdotic experience I have noticed that the higher potential judging skill of HOYD the lower star rating of newgen potential. Thou I believed, what you proved now partially, is that HOYD does not lower potential of newgen, he just correctly estimate it. I noticed that potential is always (or at least in vast majority) overestimated. That would explain peoples experience with sacking HOYD to get "better" newgen.

[@baiisun]

The mistake makes sense in theory. But, once in your team, aren't the newgen evaluated by your assistant manager? Why would people still think they get better newgens without HOYD if once properly evaluated, they are actually crap? Unless the assistant manager judging attributes are also low...

[@ukaszfurmaniak1555]

@@baiisun yes they are, but I am not sure when thou. they star ratting diminish somewhere within a year.

[@baiisun]

@ukaszfurmaniak1555 what do you mean their star rating diminishes within the year? Potential star rating usually diminishes with time for all players if their CA doesn't improve fast enough. I would be interesting to see if their actual PA value change 🤔 and if so, what induces it.

[@ukaszfurmaniak1555]

@@baiisun Ok let my try to describe it in more detailed way as my explanation might be to vague. So first of all about star rating. Star rating is not accurate rating, the lower HOYD "judging potential" attribute it is, the more potential rating is inflated. But not real potential. Real potential stay as it was created. Potential itself is not dynamic. If player was created with 150 potential then it will have 150 potential until he retire. What I was referring to is potential rating that is expressed in stars. If HOYD have low "judging potential" attribute then at when newgens are presented then all of them will have inflated rating. That inflation will slowly diminish to show their real potential, although I check my save and it take much more than a year actually to show accurate potential rating. So when you employ HOYD with high "judging potential" attribute then from beginning you can see that actual potentials is not as high, because rating inflation is much smaller.

[@baiisun]

@@ukaszfurmaniak1555 Yes, that's what I understood. But players are also losing potential stars rating just by not developing fast enough. That's why even a player with a PA of 200 won't have 5 stars PA at 25 if his CA is just 140. Because there's no way he's reaching 200 in two years. So Maybe, if between 15 and 17, a PA 200 players doesn't get 50-60 CA increase, maybe he won't be 5 stars potential anymore but just 4 stars, because his chances to reach 5 are way lower now. Something like that. But I know that's not what you were referring to.

[@XxXTMillzXxX]

Am I correct in saying that the scouting range makes no difference? No difference between none and worldwide

[@ebfm]

Yes no difference. But in these tests all other leagues were disabled, and all 8 teams were based in the same city (Amsterdam), so maybe scouting range doesn't play a big role? In the future videos I'll try varying the geographies of the clubs and enabling more overseas leagues, perhaps scouting range will become more relevant then.

[@benjaminkuhn2878]

On the Question if all junior team coaching contributes toward the professionalism of the youth players; You would need to populate all the positions for a test. Since you haven't done that so far, you can not conclude it does not.

[@benjaminkuhn2878]

The explaination as far as it is given by si; hoy has 2x the draw power of a coach, so if you deduct 2x-1x =1x only the influence of the hoy stays relevant.

[@ebfm]

hey bud, not too sure what you mean. Are you talking about the personality attributes (eg. Professionalism) of the Youth Coaches affecting the personality attributes of newgens? It may be true that the HOYD affects newgen personalities 2x more than youth team coaches. In which case, the relatively weak relationship between youth team coach personalities & newgen personalities may not have been captured by my statistics.

[@benjaminkuhn2878]

@@ebfm Yes, this is what I did understand from reading the SI-Forum. Love your work on the field btw, but this one conclusion about the junior coaching staff not having an effect on the personality in the YI, might be a lil preemptive. keep up the good work!

[@CapriciousStoic2]

@@ebfm If that is so HOYD would mean 66% would be his contribution and the Youth Team Coaches the rest of 33% - to the average stats contribution. I have no idea if U19 Manger makes any difference ( i presume in Y T Coaches pool ) but based on your test - it does not. There is also the concept of Favored Personal of the Youth Player that is combination of Senior and Youth Coaches and HOYD that i see as favored personal ( 1 Fav coach , 2 Fav , 6 Fav etc. for a player ) and it may mean that they are also extra filter or reinforcement. If i see 5 good coaches ( senior and youth and YOYD - in the Favorite ) that have good personality's with there specific values ( more ambious that other coaches ) in the player information - the player generated is a mix / or partial average of there values. That would mean the beside the general coaches values ( 66% + 33% that uplift the average) that gives the general boost there is also some extra average based on "selected Favorite Personal". One behavior i see is this : HOYD perfectionist with 19 Amb , 14 Profesional and rest of the values a low sportsmanship 3 , controversy high 14 , presure not so great 7 etc. His values would contribute 66% . Most good players generated could be Fickle , Ambitious, or Perfectionist but with high Ambition and medium Profesional and similar low values in rest as HOYD. -then - you have Youth team coaches that are more Profesional and have values more like 16 Profesional , 13-14 Ambition and normal values of 9-11 for Sport , Presure etc. This coaches would cover for the HOYD low stats and also raise Profesionalism with maybe 1 point for the player or sustain the 14-15 mark. They would average out all together with there 33% contribution. Make it an average of 17 Ambition , 15 Prof , 9 presure , 11 Controversy etc. Still players would be more Ambitious on average that Profesional. Then you get Favored Personal Coaches / Persons [ could be 3 of them could be 4 etc. all random in number or picks or as guarantors of player ] that could come also from Senior team , Assistant managers, U19 Manager etc. - that would also apply there own average ( * maybe ) with unknown contribution that would reinforce with extra weight - i believe quite strong the final outcome. I see a patern in this regard. So the only way to be sure that you get good Players is to populate with 'good personality' all the Coaches and Staff that is Coaching. Youth Coaches, HOYD , Senior Coaches , Assistant Mangers of 19 or Senior etc. But the best way to be sure to is have some Ambitious and some Profesional and normal rest of stats - as mix in the coaches would cover for lack of low values for the others or go High Profesionalism in all. I would be quite imposibile to have all the Coaches with fantastic values in all the stats , but you can increase the average for all the coaches from 10 to 15 in most saves over 3-5 seasons. Then with mentoring you could raise more. Another strategy that i use i have some normal Balance Personality Coaches with high Stars 3.5-4 for the Youth team ( but also senior ) but as said normal personality ( but not to many ) but i envelop/get next to them them 'Personally Coaches' with 16-19 in Ambition and Prof and good Pressure etc. but 1.5-2 stars and even low Youth Development ...they would be there to modify the average of General Team Coaches personality even if they bad coaches by them self. The i set the good ones to train one or 2 Categories and the Personality Coaches to decrease the workload.

[@zeyadmahagna1394]

The Sports Interactive team do such a poor job in the forums or elsewhere of dispelling myths, they seem to like keeping them out there. Lately more devs have been talking about how the game actually works in the forums which is nice to see. A game like FM needs an official wiki from SI at the very least.

[@ing.andrejmeciarphd.963]

YOU MAKE MISTAKE , HofYD can chang PA by 25 PA , problem is you not change all atr. i maky my own test , i put all on 1 and after it i put all on 20 , but all his Coach stat is used to calulated if you chage only one of them diference is so low to notice , look on is HofYD CA , it is caluatel with many stat mostly coach , det , moral atac def .... sent me email a find more mistakes you made , TY for you work is great

[@CapriciousStoic2]

So you say if you have a HofY with a current high CA of his ( ex: 130 ) he can generate better PA for players ? So besides personality of his you should look for a world class HofY ( ex big internationl player ) with a high CA ? ( which will mosty have also high reputation ).

[@ing.andrejmeciarphd.963]

@@CapriciousStoic2 yes i make simulations in malaysia leaguge :D low reputacin my player are 40-60 CA and my newgen was 40-60 PA when i put my HofYD all to 20 it generate absoulut beast players one was 120 CA 140 PA

[@alexjp123]

I'm about 6 seasons in and I've never had better than an average intake. I have high/maxi ratings for all facilities and youth recruitment, Model Citizen HOYD and high club reputation (I'm Everton) - can the lack of good intake be due to operating in the same area as Liverpool and Man Utd/City?

[@ebfm]

Use the editor to compare the YR and Club Reputation of Everton against other clubs in the league. If YR is the same, Club Reputation acts as a tiebreaker. Which basically means Everton's Reputation has to be higher than Liverpool / Man City / Man Utd etc. before you have first dips on the best youths from England.

[@alexjp123]

@@ebfm yeah will do. I also wonder if using the Realism database by Davincid is affecting it

[@danielnilsson6226]

Great as always! My question are. - Is there a correlation between having many players in the youth team compared to none/a few about how good the youth intake will be?

[@matthiasbeltman1085]

Could you find out how much a single attribute could grow if there is a wonderkid? It would be very handy in figuring out what a wonderkid's end stats would be

[@BhBc8f8]

That would have to depend on their training and match experience

[@matthiasbeltman1085]

@@BhBc8f8 so how much is it, if he trains perfectly and plays the perfect amount of matches?

[@BhBc8f8]

@@matthiasbeltman1085 I'm not sure what you mean. Each attribute is measured on a scale of 1-20. I've personally seen an attribute grow from 12 to 20. Players with high PAs (150-200) and good personality will have multiple (15-20) attributes by the time they're like 27 or so. Messi at the start of FM19 had a 20 in like 8 attributes. Beastly

[@matthiasbeltman1085]

@@BhBc8f8 thats what i meant. You've seen them grow by 8 in a single attribute. At least i now know a attribute of 8 can still become 16

[@BhBc8f8]

@@matthiasbeltman1085 oh most def. glad i could help. Also in my personal experience, attributes become slower/harder to grow the higher they are. Which i guess makes sense if we're following video game logic. Meaning an attribute that grew from 8-14 in 2 years could also take 2 yrs to grow from 15 to 16. Good luck

[@nameanteater4772]

Does the amount of time your HOYD has spent at the club have an influence on the attributes of the players.

[@okaydude100]

Does the personality of the entire under 18s coaching team staff having an effect over time of the newgens though? You have proven it makes no difference to the initial personalities they start with, but does a bad personality coaching team have an over time impact on them as they train in your youth system for a year or two?

[@vasileiosalexandris]

The personality of background staff affect the young personalities which start to appear, but need over five years to be happen. It's not an immidiate affect.

[@thecasualgamer7425]

Dose HOYD preferred formation/tactical style affect the type of players recruited

[@vasileiosalexandris]

For Preferred Formation, yes. If you play 433 DM Wide, your HoYD have 433 DM Wide will start to produce players in those position more. If he has as Coaching Style - Fitness, will start to develop players (in background) with better physical attributes. Those affects need time to kick in.

[@wispawaffles8438]

I wonfer if the working with youngsters trait for the HOYD correlates to any tangible differences in CA/PA. If not then choosing a HOYD purely with a good personality should be the only desirable characteristic

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, in this video I tested all Coaching Attributes of the HOYD as a set, which includes the WWY Attribute. No difference was found in the CA/PA of Newgens. So WWY seems ineffective, according to these tests. So far my conclusion is that the HOYD only impacts the Personality of Newgens.

[@Pa5try]

Great vid! I am curious about the lack of factors impacting the determination of newgens. I was under the impression that your HOYD's determination affected that of the newgens they brought through, and have noticed a considerable difference when upgrading to a HOYD with higher determination. Is it possible that you missed changing the HOYD's determination because it is grouped with the mental attributes and not the other personality attributes?

[@vasileiosalexandris]

According to manual Determination: The mental desire of the coach to succeed. This isn’t a coaching attribute in terms of coaching a player’s mental approach - this is the coach as an individual and their own innate drive to better themselves and the players they work with.

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, I checked again, I did change the Determination of HOYD. It did not influence the Determination of newgens, at least according to my tests.

[@stevenboyd1294]

I've had experience of Youth Preview being Good Intake, then signing some wonderkids in the january window, only for the actual intake to become below average or poor. No changes were made to staff or facilities. Is it possible that the PA of the youth squad could have an impact on the intake?

[@slipknottin]

PA and CA ratings are always relative to the other players you have

[@stevenboyd1294]

Would you expect then, for example, Barca when they had Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc at their peak... that La Masa would churn out 130ish PA players each season? Im not talking about making mass signings, im talking about bringing in 1 or 2 maybe 150-160PA wonderkids to the youth squad after the preview that seem to completely alter the predicted intake.

[@baiisun]

Amazing work Max! A lot of things tested, so much to go through! Just one quick question that came to mind right away: since there's no significant difference between HOYD and U18 Manager in terms of CA/PA but HOYD professionalism impact hidden stats, have you tested if a U18 Manager with high professionalism will also get similar results as the HOYD? Which would mean that the best choice to put in that responsibility is the staff member with the highest professionalism.

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, I did test the hidden attributes of U18 manager. You can see it in 18:50. The graphs are small in the video but you can read it from my Dropbox folder. The Personality of the U18 Manager seems to have no impact on the Personality of Newgens.

[@baiisun]

@@ebfm Oh right, I was not looking at the right place! Great thanks! So it has to be he HOYD cool.

[@baiisun]

@@ebfm Sorry I just want to confirm that when you tested the hidden of the U18 manager, he was in fact the staff member responsible of youth intake? Because in the graphs, there's another column that suggest HOYD = U18 manager is when you did that test but I don't think you mentioned the stats of that U18 manager?

[@ebfm]

@@baiisun Hey bud, when I tested the hidden attributes of the U18 manager, he was NOT the staff in charge of Youth Intake. This is because I wanted to test whether the U18 manager personality plays a role when he is NOT in charge of the Youth Intake duties. In the column you are referring to (HOYD = U18 Manager), the U18 manager WAS in charge of the Youth Intake duties.

[@baiisun]

@@ebfm yes, that's what I understood. Therefore, when the U18 manager was in charge, what were his stats?

[@Carpediem-ys2dd]

Awesome work!! Do you know if there is a correlation between a hoyd with bad/good “coaching” stats affecting the intake?

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, the Coaching Attributes of the HOYD were tested in this video. 8:10 for example shows 'HOYD Coaching Attributes'. The font is small so you might have to visit my Dropbox to download the Excel file. It appears that the Coaching Attribute of the HOYD have no impact on the CA/PA of newgens.

[@koalabear555]

For the next video, can you add regional and city population as variables?

[@baiisun]

I think that's a given that it impacts the newgen but it could be verify indeed. I just don't think it's that important because we can't do anything about it ingame, unless you will look for a new job because the city of your club is small? Same goes with clubs that have high neighboring competition like in London, it's not something we cand do about really...

[@koalabear555]

@@baiisun I think just for the sake of knowledge, it's worth it. Also, it does impact what club you might start with if you're trying to complete youth-focused challenges.

[@aisfb358]

Max님 항상 좋은 영상 감사합니다. 혹시 National Youth Rating은 어떻게 상승하는지 실험할 수도 있을까요? TomFM님이 올려주신 FM22 모든 국가 Youth Rating을 1로 설정한 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3nRZ6uofaqheLM 영상에서는 브라질이나 벨기에같은 나라가 오만보다 Youth Rating이 더 느리게 성장하더라구요. 축구 수준이나 클럽 시설도 훨씬 좋을텐데 어떤 기준으로 발전하는건지 궁금해요.

[@ebfm]

안녕하세요. National Youth Rating이 어떻게 변화하는지는 저도 궁금한 부분입니다. 아마 국제대회에서 우승컵을 들거나 하면 성장하지 않을까요? 기회가 된다면 한 번 실험해 보도록 하겠습니다.

[@filipmierzejewski9776]

I’m curious if the judging player ability and judging player potential attributes of your HOYD have any impact on the CA and PA of your youth intake?

[@vasileiosalexandris]

No they don't. It's about the accuracy of the information those attributes.

[@ludwighummel6128]

Bonjour je suis français et regarde donc avec les sous titres générés par youtube donc c'est parfois approximatif. Cependant j'ai une question. Est ce que la personnalité des préparateur influence celle des newgen ? Merci pour le travail accompli

[@ebfm]

Bonjour, I'm guessing you are asking about the Youth coaches. According to my experiments, Youth coaches have no influence on newgen personalities. The personality of the Head of Youth Development influences newgen personalities.

[@ludwighummel6128]

@@ebfm merci de de la réponse. Du coup il n'y a pas de réel intérêt de prendre en préparateur pour les jeunes ou l équipe première des citoyen modèle , modèle de professionalisme.. ?

[@ebfm]

@@ludwighummel6128 According to my teest results, no. For U18 coaches, focus more on the coaching attributes rather than the personality. With Head of Youth Development, do look at personality, as it will influence your newgen personalities.

[@ludwighummel6128]

@@ebfm merci beaucoup

[@bill_benjamin]

Great work as always! Do you have statistics for the number of players that gen within certain ranges? There seemed to be a huge drop off between the 199 guy who genned at team B and the lowest PA on that list which I think was 146? I think my expectations about what I am going to get in my youth intake every year need to be tempered. If I get a 90CA 145PA player for example, I should be pleased with that? Where would a player like that sit within the percentile of genned players?

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, in the control group of my test, only 23 players out of 3840 (~0.005%) had PA over 160. But this is when all the related variables were very mediocre (10 Youth Facilities, 10 Junior Coaching etc.). If you're managing a big league club eg. Liverpool, all the variables will be a lot higher, so the incidence of good quality youngsters will be higher. Since there are 16 newgens/season/club, and there are 20 clubs in the premier league, 16x20 = 320 newgens per season. You can reasonably expect 1~2 newgens > 160 PA per season, which I guess is more or less realistic. The guy with 199 PA spawned from Team B (Youth Recruitment 18/20, Club Reputation 4000 which isn't great). It's definitely very RNG dependent. Don't expect Messi's and Ronaldo's to rain, and praying to RNGesus is still your best bet 😅

[@bill_benjamin]

@@ebfm Definitely need to temper my expectations! I expect all my players to be 160+ 😂😂😂😂!

[@fadydaaboul2201]

Great video as usual Can you a test only concerning the HOYD What is the most important thing when it comes to HOYD Is it only the personality In other words if i choose a HOYD with a rubbish JPA and JPP or WWY but with a great personality will i get good Youth players?

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, so far it seems that the HOYD is mainly about Personality, and not the CA/PA ratings of players. JPA/JPP I believe is only about making accurate predictions/ ratings, without actually impacting the CA/PA ratings of players. More on this in the next video.

[@CapriciousStoic2]

@@ebfm The comment of @ing.andrejmeciarphd.963 ( in this comment list ) said that HOYD desired personality + HOYD actual CA will impact PA/CA of Regens and there personality. My understanding is regarding personality : coach 1 value = 0 pers attributes point of Regen , 5 =0.5 personality attributes , 10 = 1 personality attributes , 15= +1.5 personality attributes , 20 = +2 personality. Also the more coaching attributes and coaching stars for the HOYD will generate a better outcome. So the ideal HOYD - will have 15/20 professionalism and ambition that will efect ALL regens ( +1.5/+2 in there ambiton and profesionalism ) , a good personality that can generate similar personality in some regens most likey they will have favorite coach/persons to trigger that the rest will have decent Personalitys + 1-2 points on average do to the effect of HOYD on the all the class , plus as @ing.andrejmeciarphd.963 said a HOYD with CA of 130 [ many coaching stars 3.5-4 stars and coaching attributes ] will generate +15-25 CA/PA of Regens. For now we do not know anything about the Reputation : National or World Reputation of the HOYD if it has any effect. Usually high CA HOYD wore high CA players that also have good World Reputation. On your movie - Reputation of HOYD will not affect anything....But what reputation, National or World one ? And another question would be if Club Reputation stacks with HOYD reputation 5k + 5k = 10k , or if club reputation is 3k and HOYD 6k = 6k at the end , or Club reputation 6k , HOYD 3k = 6k meaning the highest one will be relevant , meaning you should strive to get a better Reputation HOYD that your Club to attract better regens. Ex: An ex internation high reputation player now as HOYD for a minor low reputation Club will attract better regens and it will be similar with the high reputation club. Usually if there is a big mismatch the HOYD will not sign for low rep club so most likey with an HOYD you could get 500-1k more reputation that the club in question.

[@briandietz9524]

Thanks for the video! It's really really helpful! Maybe I missed it but was there a test for your HOYD's Judge Ability/Judge Potential rating? If I recall correctly, the game identifies it as one of the key attributes for HOYD

[@ukaszfurmaniak1555]

I was just going to mention something about that. In my opinion myth about not having HOYD arise from that that there is no person to judge youth potential. I have noticed that the higher HOYD judging potential attribute is, the lower potential of newgen is, in terms of star rating. Thou I believe that the reason for that is that he properly judge potential, rather than belief that he actually lower potential. As staff with lower skill always overestimate, i never seen that potential was underestimated, thou maybe it was just my experience.

[@bill_benjamin]

I think it was determined before that HOYD attributes have zero affect

[@baiisun]

@@bill_benjamin I think it was tested in the last video but with variation made just before the intake, not in december. So that would be something to look at indeed.

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, yes HOYD Judging Ability/Potential is an interesting one. Currently running some experiments related to that. Will publish the results in the next video.

[@platinummad4701]

What does junior coaching stands for? Is it a hidden attribute of the team?

[@ebfm]

Yes, Junior Coaching is one of the Hidden Attributes of your club. You can ask your board to improve Junior Coaching of your club but the exact JC rating is visible only if you use the editor.

[@lebagel]

Can you reverse engineer the mechanics of having a son? Do I have to reset at the preview day or the intake day? Do I have to be 35/at a club 10 years etc?

[@ebfm]

Hey bud, the names of newgens are determined at Youth Preview days. So if you want to reset for a son, it must be done just before the Youth Preview date. But you can't see the name of your son until Youth Announcement, so each trial will take at 3-4 months (from Dec-Mar/Apr).

[@herrmannmunster]

Fantastic once again! One piece of the puzzle that is still missing for me is the relationship between the youth preview in December and the youth announcement in March/April. Sometimes you get a very promising preview but then after five months when you get the final announcement it turns out that the youth intake is average at best. Is that variation between preview and announcement due to me having bad scouts/HOYD? Is it purely random? I honestly have no idea.

[@baiisun]

Not sure if scouts are playing any role here, but if your HOYD has low Judging Ability/Potential stats compared to your assistant manager or whoever judge the players in your team, it definitely can explain what you observed I reckon. It could also be something like the preview is good compared to the average of the league but once in your team, these players are average because you are full of wonderkids or something like that.

[@BhBc8f8]

Don't forget that your star ratings are relevant to your squad abilities and to your league opponents. If you have Top wonderkids already in your team, your youth intake might still be in fact world class, but will receive lower rankings because of the comparison to them.

[@JoelMiller77]

Your videos are amazing but in real life my intakes seem to get worse more the facility’s staff and reputation increase, I’ve maxed everything out and the youth intakes are horrendous 😢

[@baiisun]

Noticed that also in my previous saves on various previous FM. That's something that always bugged me and would require further investigation. Some questions that come to mind, are other clubs in your league getting a lot of high PA regens? or could it be the league that is getting worse with time and thus your intakes too? are the other clubs in your league also getting more reputable and advanced? Because let's say that 19 other clubs in your league increase in reputation and facilities level, it will decrease your chance to get good regen drastically I reckon, see what I mean? The only way to find an answer would be to compare the data from your current save to a new save with same settings in which from what you said you should have better intake the first year right? So you compare the data and check the differences, the answer must be there.

[@JoelMiller77]

@@baiisun yes your absolutely spot on, my Swansea team are maxed out but other top clubs still around in the prem, Man U, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Southampton, Tottenham, Arsenal, so each year competition for domestic top regens must be super high 🤔😂

[@baiisun]

@@JoelMiller77 But when you started your first season you had better newgen that now? Because the over hypothesis I came up with that could make more sense in your case since the clubs around you were already top notch when you started, is that simply your team got better as a whole, like your players are so good now compared to when you started that the newgen evaluation compared to your team average is way lower now than it was when you started with an average team level. Are you full of wonderkids and 4/5 stars players?

[@JoelMiller77]

@@baiisun yes very possible that is the case, when we started out we where relegation fodder, but now we have world class players in almost every position so the new gens now don’t look as impressive as they did first 3 seasons,

[@ebfm]

Hey mate, it could be due to other clubs in the league also increasing their Club Reputation. I'll talk about this more in the next video but Youth Intake is almost like a competition between the clubs in the league. So even if you increase your Club Reputation, if the other clubs are all increasing their Reputation at the same time, there won't be much difference in the quality of your newgens. Just like in life, doing well is not enough - you need to do better than your competitors!

[@benjaminkuhn2878]

Scoutingrange =/= Scoutingpaket