Folding Ideas - The Dark Side of Source Code

S2E13 - The Dark Side of Source Code
Originally uploaded March 8, 2012

[@jonknight4616]

Really enjoyed Source Code. Coming across your videos on it, it suddenly struck me what an Assassin's Creed movie should have been like. Using Source Code as a model, could have made for something actually fairly good.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

Now I'm just imagining a world where everyone across the globe is eventually replaced with Coulter Stevens.

[@jinxed7915]

Same here, it would definitely make for an interesting sequel

[@boiicashthehizzle]

please help me i am coulter stevens, a pilot trapped inside the body of this 19 year old stoner, i saved the world from nuclear annihilation but then my mom grounded me because she thinks i’m trying to fuck with her. i don’t know her name - she wants me to go to college

[@floraposteschild4184]

Although the ending of Source Code is not exactly happy, there's always the soap opera standby -- amnesia. Throw yourself on the mercy of doctors (you probably need to talk to a psychiatrist anyway), check yourself into a nice rehab facility, and slowly get to know your family and get your life up and running. Then you can make the acquaintance of your previous family. Why not? They will probably treat you like a long lost son.

[@boiicashthehizzle]

maybe he could also reach out to captain goodwin and be like “hey look uh y’all been creating new universes im the guy in the box lmao”

[@zumabbar]

@@boiicashthehizzle they'd def kill him, or at least detain n hide him from the public

[@ChloeCinema]

Realistically, he could easily just fake amnesia, and considering he knows nothing of his life, wouldn't be that hard

[@NelsonStJames]

"Groundhog Day Mechanics" I like that term. We actually got to see how this scenario would play out in Orphan Black where a character did try to assume the life of someone else, whose routine involved skills and knowledge that they could not convincingly bluff their way through.

[@jonsnor4313]

A scam artist, who is competent in such matters, and has still trouble.

[@Smokescale]

I'm so glad you touched on the idea that there would be multiple Coulter Stevenses. That was something that occurred to me IMMEDIATELY upon the reveal at the end when the director is disappointed that the train situation wasn't a good test case for the program. That suggests that perhaps there were SEVERAL OTHER incidents that Stevens was used to prevent... but no one knows it due to the fact that the incident was averted. All the Coulters Stevens could get together and form their own little secret club, maybe they come to the conclusion you mentioned, that they are replacing people, destroying identities, and confront the military about the program to shut it down and let the "original" Coulter Stevens finally rest. It's REALLY dark, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that aspect to it.

[@ByzantineDarkwraith]

But they wouldn’t be in the same universe, because a new universe is created every time the machine boots up…

[@ByzantineDarkwraith]

Nvm actually I get it, if the universe that coulter is in after he takes over ventress’s body and survives has a disaster that happens later on and then they use Source Code in that universe, the copy universe that they create when they send the coulter in the box into the last moments of someone who died will have a copy of the Ventress with coulter’s consciousness (because it’s presumably a perfect copy of things as they were right before the disaster) as well as the coulter who’s inhabiting the consciousness of the new disaster’s victim.

[@SnakebitSTI]

I am now imagining a Coulter Stevens support group attended entirely by Coulter Stevenses.

[@paperbackwriter1111]

Also Happy Ending means he bodysnatches a history teacher.

[@millerlkme01]

Honestly, I think the plug was still pulled at the end of the movie and the "happy ending" was the last bit of brain activity playing out as he died.

[@andreas4010]

i thought it was a studio re-shoot and originally it ended on that freeze frame

[@christopherstuetzle8863]

Yes! The ending ruined the movie for me until I started thinking about it this way. Thinking about it any other way really just breaks the rules established in the movie, from what I remember.

[@jonsnor4313]

Me too the hollywood ending after the freez hero ending moment is shoehorned in and makes the movie really stupid and inconsistent

[@EndParenthesis]

@@andreas4010 That would would make sense, and in a way, I think ending at the freeze frame would have actually been a happier ending. By virtue of it being presented as a freeze frame, you could argue that the movie would be communicating the idea that that instance lasts in perpetuity. That moment never ends. And you can't get a much happier ending than kissing your romantic interest forever -- literally.

[@Michael-Rosen]

Ahh… the good ending

[@dormagio]

The idea of this man fixing a problem, overriding history, and the operation then being run on a different problem over and over until there aren't any problems worth doing it on is fascinating. I would love to see a continuation of the storyline where they successfully pull off the operation then over the next week begin to realize that there are 400 copies of the same man running around now because of what they did.

[@JimPanzeeEsq]

"Just a high school teacher" harsh, dood.

[@low_poly_object]

Regardless of whether the ending is meant to be interpreted as alternate realities or not, the movie is still a bit messed up. The main character is not only fine with functionally killing someone and stealing their identity, but entering a relationship with someone under false pretenses. I mean the female lead likes a dude who dies and then his imposter wearing his flesh actively pursues her. She either dies, is mentally scarred, or is seriously emotionally manipulated in each reality or simulation. And that last one is coded as the good ending by our 'relatable' protagonist. It is frankly pretty concerning that the movie never really considers how the sci-fi elements don't really fit with the main character 'getting the girl'.

[@iamknife7]

The main character doesn't really have a choice in the matter. He's in a coma and is being actively manipulated by an unethical organization. Even if his character chose not to follow the rules, it makes no difference, they can still force him to do their bidding. He might as well make the most of it.

[@Smokescale]

@@iamknife7 also, the whole "getting the girl" thing was probably pushed into the film by focus group data wielding marketing executives.

[@MegaZeta]

Yeah, _Source Code's_ reveal as a horrifying no-exit scenario, one where the hero's pretty much _Johnny Got His Gun,_ demands a conventional happy ending to keep the conclusion from being a jarring downer out of touch with its own script. But the movie spends so much time on Coulter as Fentress, the ins and outs of what he gets wrong or right _as_ someone else from the perspective of a _specific_ acquaintance of the man whose body he's hijacked, that it's harder to do what works in some similar movies _(Edge of Tomorrow_ comes to mind) where an emotionally satisfying ending swings up and away from bigger questions. We've just watched Coulter perform a trick over and over, and then we leave him on another iteration where the obvious thought is, "So, is he going to do the same trick again?" then, "Wait, that won't work," then, "Wait, does he have to do the same trick _forever_ now?" Playing armchair script doctor with no reliable references as to my skill, a more narrative-oriented ending might be: Coulter hits a soft version of the story's implications, where Christina reveals she doesn't know exactly what's happened, but she overheard some key part of Coulter's conversations with Frost and/or his dad. She recognizes Fentress is gone and the person who took his place is someone who's blameless for her loss and responsible for saving many lives including hers, because something paranormal has occurred. Coulter tells Christina he can't be sure what happened to Fentress, only that he's not here anymore. Since she's only known this guy for eight minutes, she gives him a kiss and takes her leave. Coulter walks off into an unclear future with hopeful uncertainty, and Christina severs her last tie to a life she would have left behind anyway if Fentress didn't make his move. The problem with that, or anything like it, is how the movie reveals partway through that Coulter's in a state that makes him demand euthanasia as a reward, one that for him, at least, is a fate worse than death. A movie that seems to be a bunch of top-flight, connected indie-friendlies trying for a low-budget, moderate-gross, middle-brow action-blockbuster... it can't really drop that reveal and Coulter's reaction and then resolve itself with, "Everything's up in the air now, but at least he's not begging near-strangers to kill him." It would be immensely unsatisfying and wouldn't at all fit the tone of the script to that point, which needs Coulter to walk away smiling to justify how grim it gets at that one point in contrast to the rest.

[@sylviaelse5086]

I take as a premise that each time Stevens goes back to the train, a new reality is created, and that the only significance of the eight minute limit is that it's how long Stevens in his original reality can stay with the new version of Stevens (in Sean Fentress's body) in the new reality. So, during one attempt, he causes Christina to search for him on the internet. The train then later explodes. So in the new reality the train is still destroyed. In that reality Stevens a.k.a. Fentress still dies, so no one at Source Code (not the organisation's name, but never mind) will be any the wiser. Source Code will send their Stevens in to try to find out who bombed the train. Later on, it's entirely possible that investigators will look at what the people on the train were doing with their phones, and that they'll discover the search for information about Stevens, which would definitely leave them scratching their heads, wondering whether this could just be an incredibly bizarre coincidence.

[@DaneelFoyer]

Foldy seems to have a weirdly dim view of people's psychological resilience and/or problem solving. I was shocked by the casual "she'd be better off dead," line. Seeing Fentress die and the bombs would be traumatic but many people could recover from that and have a very worthwhile life. Many war survivors life happily. At least lives better than being dead. Both Marty and Steven's problems would be short term. Each day they would know more about their host's lives and any job they couldn't fake could be quit. In an extreme situation relocating to a new area and starting over would solve pretty much every problem.

[@adamdymke8004]

She doesn't know that about the nuke though, she will die in nuclear fire within the next day.

[@brockenglish7602]

He could fake an accident and pretend he has amnesia.

[@RolandMcGruner]

Source Code 2: The Colter Stephen Platoon

[@tylerskiss]

Damn! I knew you'd bring this up eventually. The teacher guy got screwed.

[@BirthquakeRecords]

I’ve got this movie on DVD lying around (I think my parents bought it like ten years ago), and I need to dig it out and rewatch it. I remember thinking it was stupid, but you’ve convinced me to give it a second chance.

[@joewaid]

I love how this video is the dark, messy version of Folding Ideas

[@camiart_casual]

And that, my good sir, is why the movie is AMAZING right up until the end, which is bullshit, and really should have just stopped with that still of him kissing the teacher. It would have been a neat, bittersweet, cherry on top. But no. Hollywood. Happy endings. We think our repeating take of his reflection in the loopy monument is cool so we can't cut it so now we have this ending that either makes no sense or is SUPER distrubing. (I do love this movie though, really.)

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

Honestly, I love the end precisely because it fucks it all up. It makes so many possibilities and implication emerge where there might not have been any. I don't think I would have had this movie stuck in my head for nearly as long if they had just done the wrote ending you suggested.

[@TheGeorgeD13]

I thought the ending was perfect. I find it bullshit that people really like to harp on happy endings. And it isn't Hollywood. The director WANTED this ending, Hollywood didn't. Read about the making of this movie.

[@camiart_casual]

I don't dislike the ending because it's happy, I dislike it because it dismantles it's own internal logic. It's ok if other people like it though, I understand why they would.

[@tawdryhepburn4686]

There is a sequel script - by the same writer - that goes all-in on the disturbing parts of the “happy ending.” It also involves a plane bombing and Coulter/Fenchers running into a second source code jumper. It’s a great, fucked up script. Too bad they never made it.

[@christophertstone]

I didn't think it was a "happy ending". For a moment it looks like it might be, he gets the girl and lives and all that. But the last moments are him staring into a mirror, seeing another face, and with a discernible level of hesitation. That felt like a pretty cold chill.

[@Deathbynature89]

That would make a fun sequel. All the copies rally together and try to destroy source code and undo all the damage they have done.

[@SnepperStepTV]

I hope the box puppet guy comes back in future videos somehow, this is very nifty and very-unlike pop-youtube so i very much like it

[@JoelEdwinTaylor]

Honestly, the multi-colter concept sounds like the most amazing sci-fi story.

[@ElementalofAir]

I'm just imagining him trying to guess the pin on his debit card or any of his passwords

[@rngwrldngnr]

It's worth noting that the second attack probably rarely happens because the beleaguered castle project is in all the realities.

[@krikun98]

Well, the universe he ends up in has a Source Code project. Call them up, fake the guy's death and go into witness protection. And the guy would have been dead in eight minutes, so he did not steal a lot.

[@MyoticTesseract]

I can't believe you used to be a robot.

[@Ziraya0]

I want this movie, sourcecode 2: wtf now bro?

[@tawdryhepburn4686]

Ziraya0 they wrote it. It was good. But it’s too complicated for audiences to follow since it was written several years later and most people wouldn’t remember the intricacies of act 3.

[@LordOfLemon]

5:47 Technically, there's a high chance that the source code program also exists in that particular universe and therefore in the next few days the half-dead Coulter born in that world will prevent the nuke from going off. This recursive logic is a bit weird, but I think that's how it works.

[@ktownshutdown21]

Mfw when Wonder Woman 1984 adapted this part of Source Code straight faced.

[@jamesmooney3472]

Lol that bit about the train and leaving her behind. Folding Ideas predicted Re:zero’s twist 5 years early

[@TooFatTooFurious]

Honestly, this is a great idea for some sequel spin-off thing, where its about lots of Coulter Stevenses realizing what happened

[@competentfake]

If it was me, I'd feign amnesia, which would be easy to pull off because in a real sense, Coulter HAS amnesia in regards to being Fentress.

[@JP-JustSayin]

The biggest thing that the surviving version of Coulter Steven's knows is ... THE MANY-WORLDS MODEL OF QUANTUM MECHANICS IS REAL!!!

[@adamdymke8004]

Also that the government has control of the method of both immortality and escaping the universe's heat death.

[@williammays9408]

Its basically the coin flip episode from Community if it was an action film

[@chibikonatsu]

I'd been trying to remember the name of this movie recently: thank you!

[@KOLN555]

That's not a cargo train that hits him, that's Chicago Metra

[@zackpumpkinhead8882]

The film reminded me a looot of the game SOMA in particular, a much less... Positive outlook on mind-switchering after death. Especially the part where he visualized a "cockpit" for himself when he's actually mutilated; motionless and hooked up to wires.

[@ZBott]

Wow, source code 2 could be an amazing social drama.

[@NortherlyK]

It reminds me of The Bobiverse, where they have taken a guy's consciousness, installed it in a computer, launched it into space, and every new computer it needs to create uses the same template.

[@TheAechBomb]

yesssss, though not the same template, but a live copy. awesome series, waiting for the next book

[@thrownstair]

The universe where Coulter gets hit by a train is the secret Final Destination 6.

[@adamdymke8004]

I just realised that this version of mental time travel is identical to the one used by H.P Lovecraft's Yith. The logical implication of Source code is a cosmic horror story.

[@detubeme]

10:45 You have a mistaken assumption here that the point of source code and end of every source code mission is that an event will be avoided and Colter Stevens will live on in the body of some victim/witness. It's very clear in the movie, and actually a big plot point for the first hour or so, that the point of source code is NOT to change anything. The point of source code is to gather information that can then be used in the "relatively prime" reality. It's like 12 monkeys. They have to keep reminding Colter and Cole that they aren't supposed to try and change anything because they can't. They are only going back to get information. There is always the possibility that Colter's heart will guide him to try and change things, but there's also constant reminders that he isn't supposed to. 11:18 You're not ever going to have more than one Victim/Witness (inhabited by Colter) and a Colter Stevens (in the tank) in "the world" because each Colter will exist in a different timeline/reality/world in the body of a victim/witness to any event. They don't all live in the same reality. In the last reality we see, if that Sean Fentriss (colter) does whatever he does with the girl and his life.... the other Colter Stevens (in the source code tank) will still be sent to ANOTHER reality or source code past wherein he's supposed to gather data and if he saves the day again then he'll end up in ANOTHER reality or source code past. The Colter Stevens in a tank in THAT reality will then be sent to ANOTHER reality to gather information and so on... Whew.

[@JimPanzeeEsq]

detubeme This. yes, well said.

[@huoshewu]

The movie takes place in Universe A. He goes to several different universes and fails, then wins in universe G (or whatever). He has not changed anything in A, but if the read of going to all these different universes is right then he stepped over several to get to G. This means he isn't limited to a one for one transference. In the video Foldy says "30", but he really means "A significant percentage of the number of universes that are connected by the Source Code". If each one is stepping over to say a dozen universes there may be some overlap, and that means that (given what I know about the government) the successful use of this program will only spawn more. While unlikely, it might just be 6 billion successful Captains end up taking over the population of Universe G. This is all speculation, and I think the movie directors wanted the ending to be a happy one so they probably didn't think the long term effects through and this is all speculation. But in an infinite number of universes, and with these cross overs, G is overrun with Capt. Stevens, to the point where he is running the test on himself as both the white female and the black male. It only breaks down when he has a few minutes to learn years of schooling and theory, as he is hopping universes the whole time mucking it up for them, only to get it right down the line. I think is what Foldy is saying. I think there is a comedy here where the first Stevens breaks down from not knowing his job to another Stevens who is fumbling through life and they compare notes. They just turn to the next person and ask point blank if that person is Stevens too. Then it sweeps the world like a plague. Some kind of Zombie Stevens plague where you might think you died in Afghanistan as a Captain in another universe. It could get weird quick.

[@trtx84]

detubeme I think what he's saying is that there are now two Universes: A where the train explodes and B where it does not. In A, Stevens is dead. So if the project is used again with a new test subject it will be from a point in time in *that* Universe with no Stevens/Fentriss running around. Universe B, however, now has a Stevens walking around in the teachers body and one in the tank. If the Source Code is used in a similar fashion to send him to Universe C, Stevens would be in a new body, plus there would be a Stevens/Fentriss running around, PLUS there would still be the Stevens in the tank. Each successive Stevens is progressively more screwed IF they choose to stay in the new universe they created. It's been a while since I've seen this, but one way to break the cycle would be to explore if the Source Code provided a way for Stevens to be recalled after a successful mission in which he doesn't die. At that point it's more like Quantum Leap, and at worst his host blacked out for 8 minutes.

[@detubeme]

+Andrew Welter You're making the same mistake right here: "If the Source Code is used in a similar fashion to send him to Universe C, Stevens would be in a new body, plus there would be a Stevens/Fentriss running around, PLUS there would still be the Stevens in the tank. Each successive Stevens is progressively more screwed IF they choose to stay in the new universe they created." You're correct that theres now a Stevens-in-Fentress in Universe C....and a Stevens in the tank. But, if the Source Code is used again....he would go to Universe D.... and so on. At no point will it ever just stop at Universe "N". It would always continue to Universe "N+1". So you're never going to have more than Stevens-in-Tank and Stevens-in-Fentress in Universe "X", because if Source Code is used again... Stevens-in-Tank(X) is then changed into Stevens-in-Fentriss(Y). It's just discrete math.

[@tristancase8720]

Though, in each successive universe where Stevens fails wouldn't there not be a Fentress to inhabit because that universe's Fentress is ALREADY Stevens? So let's say Stevens goes into Universe B and fails, Universe B then sends their Stevens back into their version of the events, creating Universe B-1 where there was already a Stevens inhabiting Fentress, which presumably means he'd have to inhabit a different victim. Extrapolate from there and we wind up in a situation where every person on the train is actually Stevens

[@catiseith]

Or he could act like he has amnesia. People get amnesia all the time, so it's a plausible way to reintegrate himself to society and his new life.

[@classactionsteve]

edge of tomorrow

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

Fucking love that movie.

[@therealscarred2112]

Steven Levine The studio/marketing truly screwed the pooch on the gem of an intelligent, well-acted, shot, edited & paced. Part of it was the waffling of the "Edge Of Tomorrow"/"Live.Die.Repeat" titles - I personally prefer the latter as it's an odd, interesting title for an odd, interesting film, and the former is *just* about as generic as one can get. Another aspect was not playing up the fact that Tom "thetan" Cruise's character was very much a major league dick for a good amount of the film, pretty rare for Cruise's role choices and especially for a Summer "Popcorn Film". And perhaps from the end of the last point, EoT/LDR *shouldn't" have been a Summer Film, as it wasn't a "Transformers" flick. A Christmas slot might have been better for this Smart Action Film, as "Rogue One" scored with 2 1/2 years later.

[@valid_sound_and_furious8413]

I know this video is a bazillion years old now, but if you're interested in spending more time considering the ethical implications of "overwriting" a person who was fated to die and assuming their identity, you might want to look at the TV show Travelers. It started on a Canadian TV network and has moved to Netflix now.

[@McDonaldsCalifornia]

Theory: So in the world of Source Code parallel universes are a reality and can be accessed via the source code program. Bad things happen and they use the source code to send someone to another universe to fix things. That universe has to be at least similar enough so that whatever they are trying to prevent also happens there so it is similar enough to also have a source code program. So there is a number of parallel universes similar enough to each other sending people between them and creating people that are swapped out with Jake Gylenhall. So in any given universe that has a source code program there are potentially a huge number of Gylenhalls running around.

[@TheHobgoblyn]

I think people got the ending all wrong. Rather than the machine actually being able to warp the past and create a new reality and somehow the people who made the machine and operate the machine are the ones under the dellusion that it is only a simulation, isn't it far more likely that everything after he is sent back in the last time is just a simulation? That prior to killing him, she just sent him into a simulation in which he could be happy and his mind just continued to exist in the simulation after his body died? Everything that seems to suggest it isn't a simulation could just be part of the simulation designed to foo him into accepting the false reality.

[@McDonaldsCalifornia]

But how could he carry on in the simulation when we see him die in the machine?

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

Yes, she let him live on--after cutting his life support--in the simulation... that she cut the power to. You know, because even in this fiction people with 0 brain activity can live on a computer that is unplugged.

[@TheHobgoblyn]

It is a lot more likely than saying that the machine is a simulation so long as it is convenient for it to be, but in reality it is a reality-breaking machine that can access other universes in the multiverse and over-write souls but the very people who created the machine are somehow entirely unaware of this. Occum's Razor-- choose the less bat-shit crazy idea.

[@no_genius]

TheHobgoblyn does Occam's razor really apply to fiction though? Isn't it more like "the explanation that requires several sequels is best"?

[@ArthurHindrich]

Someone may have pointed this out already, but the consequences you describe sound like the premise of the tv show "Quantum Leap" to me.

[@Mysterytour7]

The implications of Coulter warging into that other guy's life Being John Malkovich style totally ruined the ending for me.

[@tophat2776]

"Remedial Chaos Theory"

[@AjentMM]

Here's a solution, he could fake amnesia.

[@jlouzado]

it's not that there's going to multiple Colter Stevens' running around; I understood that they're all alternate timelines that get generated everytime he goes back.

[@DaneelFoyer]

The world the story ends in has 2 Coulters. One in Fentress and one still in the tank. When a disaster happens the tank one will be used and he will end up continuing in a new body in his final world while Fentress is out there and there is still one in the tank because (like Fentress), he prevents his disaster so the tank coulter is not used. Each new disaster adds one more coulter to the final world and any worlds along the way that Coulter's new body survives.

[@dracorex426]

Eventually everyone will be him.

[@loupax]

I wonder how does the garbage collector looks there

[@SophistFCD]

Now I want a sequel that's a dramedy about a support group for Colters Steven. Like some of them are women, one them is a black guy now, one is in the body of a 10 year old, etc.

[@BaconDragon]

Wait does that imply in every Universe the history teacher instantly dies after he opens a soda?

[@janesmith4167]

what happened to the history teacher soul? I always wondered that.

[@DriscolDevil]

curly sue who cares. he wasn't supposed to be real until they decided it should have a happy ending. and probably no such thing as a soul anyways.

[@deltoroperdedor3166]

curly sue what happens to any 'soul' after the poor bastard kicks the bucket

[@nathanhall9345]

In the second-to-last universe, they still have their own Source Code that they'll use to send the blown-up version of him back to an ADDITIONAL universe to prevent the nuke going off, right? So in practice, in none of the main-line universes (including all the failed attempts we see) does that nuke ever actually go off. Because they always have that universe's version of him tucked away to repeat the events of the movie. In addition, at the end you speak as though the different people with his soul will start to pile up. Having to invent new ethics, etc. But as long as they're tossing their version of him (or whoever the next person is) into a different universe, they'll probably shrug the consequences off as not their problem. Until the phenomenon of one person waking up as a totally different, dead person, is repeated enough to be worried about. Hundreds of Source Code activations down the line?

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

But it will never stop because there will inevitably be a universe that never develops a code of ethics for this and allows source code to be used unfettered, thereby corrupting every other universe.

[@Puerco-Potter]

hahahaha soooo, a colter Stevens help group?

[@Kcoldraz]

Are we talking about parallel worlds here or is it just a simulation? Since the last video talked about game mechanics I kinda assumed it is a simulation. If it is a simulation, we need to discuss first about what is a person? And can we consider AI as a being? What is the morality of creating and resetting all those simulated personality. Before all that thing Dan Discussed.

[@DaneelFoyer]

The inventor thinks that it's a simulation but the ending reveals that it is a functionally real universe.

[@dr_volberg]

This was fun and instetering, but only works on the assumption that past versions of the source code are retained. The source code is essentially a simulated reality, but it can exist only if it is simulated. But there is no reason for them to keep using their resources on previous and useless (in terms of new info) version of a simulated reality.

[@FoldingIdeas]

Any time the source code participant manages to not die they persist in the reality that they've been injected into. The ending of the film makes it clear that it is not, in fact, a bounded simulation.

[@dr_volberg]

I don't remember the movie well enough to disagree or make a counter argument.

[@Katask0p0]

How can you build a machine you think it's a simulation but it's actually an alternate universe time traveling machine? "All right I'm gonna build an origami swan oops I built the International Space Station by accident!"

[@DaneelFoyer]

@@Katask0p0 Hey, the greatest medical discovery in human history was a guy trying to make a sandwich. If a simple ham on rye can become penicillin then something as complicated as an origami swan could turn out to be an ISS.

[@paulmahoney7619]

@@Katask0p0 The Source Code is the Singularity. To try and create a machine that could perfectly replicate reality at a specific point in time and perfectly simulate what would happen if a guy with foreknowledge went back in time at a specific point, they had to invent a God under their control. If it can perfectly simulate all of reality, allowing the people behind it to put information they have and get out objective facts they didn't know with 100% accuracy, whose to say they can't have invented a machine that accesses alternative universes at a set time in the past? It just being a simulation is still a machine of Godlike power, an omniscient what-if box. At that point, "It accesses alternative versions of this universe that diverge at a set moment" almost seems less absurd than "It's omniscient about this universe but needs to have someone trial-and-error their way through the simulation to find that out as opposed to just sending him with toggle_tgm and toggle_ncl on to allow him to find the truth at his leisure."

[@indigo22284]

Yeah it’s Quantum Leap. I guess you never saw that show?

[@McDonaldsCalifornia]

All those parallel universes only differ by the actions one person takes. So do they exist independently or are they created with each use of the source code?

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

Well that's the question isn't it? It could go either way, and I love this movie for that.

[@Bluecho4]

I would assume, since the differences always start with the airman entering the teacher's body, that it's the latter. A new timeline splinters off from the prime one every time he's sent back. I find it is...less messy that way.

[@InternetLaser]

It's called the bean, not the "cloud gate"

[@InternetLaser]

also that's not a cargo train, that's just a standard metra passenger train.

[@InternetLaser]

@@lindseyb2586 The bean is "cloud gate" the same way the Sears tower is the "Willis tower"

[@thanksgoku]

and a new arm of therapy

[@boiicashthehizzle]

is it possible that in the universe where the woman is trauamitized their version of coulter stevens could succeed in saving chicago and she gets to live a long life

[@tomvalentino8802]

I don't like the word soul bc I cannot quantify what that means in this context.

[@covenscribe]

the true point of Source Code was so tat the us military didnt have to pay veterans pension

[@WhatDoesDStandFor]

I watched this movie! so fucking good man

[@arturoaguilar6002]

I still think Dan is making too much of a deal about how hard will be for Coulter to continue living as Fentress than it has to be. But if that's his stance, he missed the opportunity to point out the parallels of that situation with the life of war veterans (as they have to reintegrate themselves to society as civilians with war experience and skills that aren't really useful in common citizen life thus in clear disadvantage with the rest of the population)

[@alex0589]

and this why the movie had the perfect ending when the action freezes and the camera shows everyone laughing on the train and the bomb doesnt go off. It would still have the problems of time travel paradoxes but wouldnt throw it in our faces, right? anyone? Bueller?

[@alex0589]

i meant without the epilogue. **action freezes, camera shows everyone, fade out.**

[@mikhailmushta2167]

I think the way they justified this in source code is "this guy will die in minutes anyway it's not like he would mind" thats if he fails, the next part is if he lives to comfront them, a smart thing to do actually as they might be the only people to believe and help him "but you died and saved the train so you get another chance in life even though you will need to fake amnesia or a form of dual personality disoreder hehe sorry we didnt really think all of these things through as we were just hoping you'd save the train and dissapear.

[@mikhailmushta2167]

PS I just watched the previous video and was reminded of the deal they made and here is what would have happened if she didn't press the button after the 8 minutes the souls go back to where they are supposed to be, happy ending for the teacher and euthenasia outside of the source code or an adventure game for the rest of his life or until he retires in a body of another person ( which would be hard but not moraly bad in my opinion because of the reasons stated in the previous comment and he would be living in a reality that he earned to live in by creating it) by making the deal happen for the solider. Just an alternative ending which might be a little happier but the results would be mor or less the same to us.

[@maamourr8170]

So they could take him back in time why couldn’t they take him back in time to save him self?

[@paulmahoney7619]

1: while a pretty nasty incident, it’s nowhere near the level of “someone’s gonna set off a dirty bomb in Chicago” 2: the big incident, Capt. Colter getting blown up, already happened, sending him back in time, as far as they know won’t fix anything cause they think it’s a simulation of the past rather than an alternate timeline 3: I’m assuming the Source Code has some limitations and events more than some relatively short, specified, time are are out of range or the system.

[@rachelmcmullan1700]

@1:19 I’m sorry I’m just...Cloud Gate? People actually call it the Cloud Gate? In real life? Huh.

[@godspeedhero3671]

Quit your job, claim amnesia. Problem solved.

[@noodrasan]

So rick and morty

[@camillelofongo5967]

"One of those levels of education where you're expected to know what you're talking about. He's not JUST a high school teacher." Well, thanks mate. That wasn't insulting, or ignorant. At all.

[@katatat2030]

The soul is not the same as consciousness. I don't think you should have used those words interchangeably. One is a scientific concept and one (soul) is not. The soul does not exist in science