Is Legion TD as good as people say? First time trying the mode - WC3

[@arivald6677]

Im not even new to this game. But last time I played was like 2 or 3 years ago. First game I joined i made TWO Lord of the Deaths instead of ONE which Im supposed to do. Entire team went insta -draw because they were so shocked by my poor gameplay and didn't want to continue. W3 Champions Legion TD community is something else im telling you people.

[@abba64]

LMAO

[@julienpastore7067]

😂😂😂

[@AlbelNoxful1]

I mean its Legion TD, even before Champions u had an elitist community and most of new players got bullied out. I like the game standalone waay more

[@VespaTTV]

The community is very much anti-new players. It's almost impossible to play on BNET as a new player

[@mvpmvp2980]

Dont understand how people enjoy playing games like that. Like they are supposed to just follow an exact script every single game for what to build. Where is the room for creativity and player expression if thats genuinely how the game is?

[@South_Wall]

Watching how skilled players treated newbie on opposite team, I definitely don't want to start playing this mod. Thanks for video

[@SpaceWitch144]

Was better when we played on bots, and there was different versions of that.

[@catbert7]

Did you learn what you could on your own first, instead of jumping into their game and ruining it by being clueless? If not, you are as toxic as they are. Both sides need to be considerate. Worst is when a map has no way for new players to learn outside of multiplayer.

[@danliness5455]

It also doesn't help when skilled players try to explain what various things mean and people still ask "what does that mean" to the same thing that was explained just a minute or two prior. For example, the 10/5 thing that had to be explained multiple times. Even worse if new players don't even bother communicating.

[@EutCake]

It's ranked, then don't join ranked as a newbie???

[@majormajorasic]

@@EutCake But how else do we tank the stocks of elo whores? All newbies must queue ranked for their first 20 games, it is the only way!

When I first played Legion TD 4v4 Ranked on WC3 champions first thing I said was that it was my first game. Immediatelly all my teammates called for a draw lol

[@-Kerstin]

How do people even get into this game mode. Seems completely unclear what you're trying to do, what tools you have and what your tools do.

[@YuriLongarms]

Survival Chaos, please. It's much slower, polished, and feels more like a separate game as a whole.

[@VIEUXNEGBS1337]

isnt like the spooks?

[@DiabeticNecromancer]

Only bad thing about SC is the ultimate weapons lol

[@KiraRiseAgainst]

Yeah i think the same i hope he can hook up with the map

[@AnimeCritical]

​@@DiabeticNecromancerI like them a lot.

[@garymiller8034]

Yes. Survival Chaos is probably right up your alley if you liked direct strike.

[@JuicyG_]

I tried to play Legion TD for the first time on Bnet a couple months ago, after first wave got told to leave the lobby since I was new. Never played again.

[@OlesMalkov]

Back in the day we played vampirism, and later there was another map elves vs trolls that had kinda the same idea. I'm not sure if they play that these days but that was fun. We only played dota and those maps for many years

[@DesignHen]

Troll and Elves was my jam back in the day. Remember playing on Garena dedicated servers

[@Reilly13445]

Vampirism is still top custom game lol I couldn't believe it myself

[@TheRealArmor]

Both are played regularly.

[@EkkoMr]

Vamp zero and vamp fire. awesome maps Also trolls vs elves

[@Nitagnelifs]

Yup. Spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours playing those gems

[@Robinson_Crusoe]

After watching many of your DS videos i got recommended videos for a game mode called Survival Chaos, and immediately thought you would like it since you enjoyed direct strike.

[@EkkoMr]

agreed

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

Grubby variety streamer on wc3 😂

[@dark8118]

21:20 this form of gatekeeping in custom games is quite common now in old games like this. it's quite saddening to see this in wc3 community Edit: even one of his chat called him ELO WHORE for not votekicking a newbie 22:40 this is so painful to watch...

[@catbert7]

The toxicity goes both ways. If there is a way for people to practice, before joining a multi-player match, and they don't, then that is disrespectful to their teammates. Hop in 1v1, read all the tooltips, learn how the map works, and go to multi when you have a clue. Then listen to vets to get better. Otherwise, you're just wrecking every game you join. And, with how many newbs there are, that's pretty much every game. Not saying these guys aren't toxic but it's not a one-sided issue.

[@dokarmionyrak54]

@@catbert7 yeah but games are made to explore and just feel it, so it doesnt make sense to every single time try to search what is what, that takes fun and will to play.

[@MarcoNonMerrino]

​@@catbert7 cope a little more

[@thomasbeyer2424]

i just tried out now some legion td in w3c as well...but damn it seems like the community doesnt like new players^^

[@VespaTTV]

I tried on BNET but all the lobbies act like it's a ranked game and want to know your MMR

[@Tom-ou8cz]

It is very closed off...

[@Brutik5]

I remember liking Sheep vs Rabbit as a kid. ANd footman wars.

[@garagavia]

Rabbits vs Sheep was fantastic

[@quemejoaogalt]

Watching dinner and eating Grubby, nothing better than that

[@master_jon]

haha... i can't believe i'm looking myself in the mirror right now.

[@awesomnality]

Don’t eat Grubby please

[@ImDeluxeSP33some]

Legion TD has probably been the most popular custom game after dota since the 2010s, probably even more so than dota since reforged. It's hard to compare to the 2000s games though like wintermaul, footies, green td

[@ImDeluxeSP33some]

That was a fun video even with the elitist who doesn't understand communication at all LMAO

[@dlearn863]

random units mod is bad for beginners, in classic LTD you pick race with unic units like in castle fight and you can do many strategies from that try classic game next time, i like X3 multiplication for a bit more dynamic game (x3 waves, x3 bosses)

[@catalyst772]

nobody plays anything other than pr or ph

[@Matthew-Light]

Try out survival chaos, its great fun

[@allenhelmuth2214]

Grubby is such an incredible pillar to have in your community. I love how much he stands for being welcoming to new players its very inspiring.

[@theprobeius]

I used to love playing Footmen Frenzy. Back in grad school that was how I would unwind.

[@kysonlosee8628]

i remember playing this game at like the age of 8 it was so fun even though i sucked

[@davidpettey2698]

As a Mac user I can now only enjoy wc3 vicariously through Grubby

[@hn-ca24]

watchin grub play legion is like grub watching me play ladder..what a role reversal

[@neobahumut707]

Damn brings back memories. Probably played thousands of matches on this map many years ago

[@Grimbago]

I've beaten all the waves against AI once and dropped the mode right after. Is it really more interesting as PvP?

[@catalyst772]

yes. its about strategizing when and what would to send, send or up king and send much later, who builds to hold ehat wave, who is holder etc

[@AlbelNoxful1]

​@AndrewArtsit becomes simplistic as an experienced player cuz u have all the answers for the quedtions. As a new player its challrnging and a steep learning curve. Well if u make it for a time and can endure the absolute dogshit community this game Mode has

[@Khantia]

I don't remember playing Legion TD... I mostly played Green TD, Elemental TD and Skibi Castle from the TDs. I do remember something similar tho... think it was called Enfos.. something. But may be confusing it for another map :P

[@Zeratul3598]

"stop wisp build archimonde" I SCREAMED LAUGHING

[@penttikoskinen4086]

Hi, long time viewer here! I remember playing this years ago. Super toxic community to new players and it's a hard map to understand anyway. Experienced players know exactly how many and which units you need to counter each wave. It's something you learn only by playing this a lot and watching other do their builds. But when the attitude is bad towards new players it doesn't really inspire anyone to start learning. Also, try out Helms Deep! Since you're a big LOTR fan you might enjoy it.

[@JesPfd]

I bought wc3 reforged half a years ago after not playing the game for 15 years. Grubby brought my attention back to this game. This was the best game buying decision in the last 2 decades. I agree Legion TD is hard for beginners, but when you get the hang of it, IT IS the best custom map ever. Now i am even high elo ;) btw thanks grubby

[@alitalore]

I miss angel arena the most. Usually a 3+ hour match

[@EkkoMr]

so many dif. themed angel arenas , too

[@catalyst772]

never figured outbthe meta it was always a player who knew what to do roflstomping

[@abba64]

I remember when i was younger, didnt speak almost any english playing AA. 5 hours on a single map, slowly discovering how to play the game. Didnt even know how to end it XD

[@Stat1onary]

literally hovered over the wisp for 10s, then 10 second later "how do i make wisp" lule

[@someguymagge]

I miss when we played games to have fun, not to just win

[@feierabenddude3353]

Never liked Legion really for the gamestyle, and watching you reminds me why. Still fun to watch :D

[@illfate757]

Grubby's custom game experience is the same as mine, I would not play Custom games because I was to hardcore into ladder. It took me years and years. My friend eventually got me to play Aeons of Strife though i didnt play much but i did like it and ENFOS I just was to focus'd on ladder

[@asliceofloaf1984]

I remember old legion td was way simpler. Less upgrades, easier initial waves, less units quantities, more clearly defined roles and abilities. Tried current legionTD and theres just too much stuff to click, really toxic metas that you must follow or else votekick, and it seems really confusing and unwelcoming. I miss the old days where round 1 was 1-2 t1 units that guaranteed won the round, and you slowly built up from then.

[@POWerrrrlGrind]

We need to ask Grubby play more melee like pve games. Im pretty sure he would like to macro things in it

[@mynameisjeff1810]

I used to like this game mode, then moved to SC2 Legion TD, then finally Legion TD 2 on steam. The community on the steam game is really positive. I don't remember the last time I ran into someone toxic, and that says a lot as I have played hundreds of hours and gotten top 5% multiple seasons. It also helps that the main comms in the game are "emotes" lol

[@SolusBatty]

LegionTD rocks, and I loved playing the stand-alone game LegionTD 2 quite a bit too in 2022.

[@SolusBatty]

Ah! And he mentions the stand-alone game 1 minute in. Hope to see that!

[@Voidkom]

I've played Legion TD many times but I have to say that it is a poorly designed map because there is almost no strategy involved. There is an optimal solution and it is practically impossible to figure out from the information you receive before each wave what this optimal solution is. If you stray too much from the optimal solution then it's game over because you either leak or your economy is lacking, and there is pretty much no way to recover so you might as well go next game.

[@tadeus1457]

Hey guys does anyone remember this old custom game where you were in a cage as a ghoul vs other ghouls? I sadly dont remember anything else from it 😢

[@AlvinKazu]

After watching these videos, I really miss playing these games, and want to reinstall Warcraft 3. I hear you can use old CDKeys from classic, but I'm curious if anyone has any advice or steps for this? It seems I have to create a bnet account again (I don't know what my old one is), or just buy reforged? I had a number of CDKeys back in the day, but had a personal copy that I purchased myself.

[@nisenazo]

Yo Grubby. I have been a bit of a passive viewer lately, mostly just drinking up the delicious stream of content you've provided us for years now. I just want to chime in on the topic of the Custom Game community of WC3. Years and years ago, I used to be a massive regular in that scene, albeit never making a name for myself. I loved me my Footies, TDs, Tags, and everything in between. One of my favourite games, Island Defense, was QUITE toxic to new players. In that game, you're given a builder that can be killed instantly by the "titan". The titan is a single player pit against 10 (11?) other players who start off very weak, but pose a serious threat to the Titan the longer they're allowed to survive. Each killed builder becomes a minion of the titan, and the titan can chose to revoke control of it. A titan can easily snowball into an advantage if they are versed enough in the game. Naturally, a game like this is very brutal for newcomers to learn, as the players typically do not want to be playing the Titan position because the skill and knowledge gap is stacked against them, this leads to something very close to bullying when an unsuspecting new player is given this important role (I have witnessed real bullying too). On the other hand, playing against very experienced titans can give you an incredible thrill as you sneak around and try not to be discovered by them. Thinking back, it would have been better to educate new players and give them the room to grow, but I also think that kind of game has a "masochist" skill curve to it where you need to enjoy being punished to get better at it. On the other hand, I never got to play DOTA1. The lobbies were always there, and I tried many times, but it was like you had to be whitelisted by some secret community somewhere on the net. The moment you joined and you weren't one of the known players, you were kicked, damn near instantly even! How's that for a new player experience! I never ever got to learn, not even the alternative maps. It was like 99% closed off to new players. (This was USeast by the way, idk what Europe's experience was like. Perhaps Basshunter had a better experience than I did :P ) Anyway, I thought I'd share my experiences with you, someone who never really played those games back then. Players were quite aggressive in their gatekeeping back then and your experience with the new player on the enemy team reminded me of those days. Some things never change. I think you did the right thing standing up for that player's right to learn the game.

[@joseonwalking8666]

Broken Alliances is the best 👌 it actually requires wc3 skills

[@unskillwarcraft1415]

If u wanna be stronk - u should able to build 10-4(10-5) wisps/lumber upgrades on 5 wave most important thing to know - u should build towers that good at next wave (plus 7 and 10 waves) another important thing to know - u should upgrade tower rather then build a new unit after u play some games u'll notice that u can play melee-build(if u rolled vamp), range-build(if u rolled many pierce), magic build(if u rolled brilliance aura) do NOT build auras at 1-4 waves (except warlock with hp reg aura) it is not a good idea to income every wave. 3, 7, 8 is stronk to strike your enemy at start when enemy leaks - u should notice what units they are using to prepare your attack with barrack units - know your enemy good luck P.S. irinabot LTD x20 by Gomez much better then battlenet version

[@radioactivezygote1892]

Sorry bro, your advices are terrible. You can not project your knowledge from one LTD version to another. P.S irinabot version isn't any better. Communty (including the amount of testers and developers) is larger in TeamOze version meaning better balance and updates.

[@unskillwarcraft1415]

@@radioactivezygote1892 maybe u right at some point. i had huge expirience years ago, and sometimes visit OZ ltd x20 nowadays, not many things has changed so "more" doesn't mean "better". But i agree that 10-5 not so good at 5 wave. As i see here 10-3(or10-4) better Still i think im right about unit building (no start auras, right units before next wave). And still i think its too weak to send inc units every wave. Only noobs and pub does like this. So thank u. U was partically right

[@theMichaelFFF]

Helicopter have POTM aura, spell breaker have codo aura, forest throll have TC aura, old orc works the same as healing fountain, but only for allies. That's only those I've seen in this video and you skipped them. I'm sure it's not necessary to explain why auras are important.

[@alekseizaitsev58]

Need more of this! I played a StarCraft 2 version of this mode. Loved it.

[@dashingheights]

im loving this custom game arc

[@andy1592]

Hey how about that Warhammer 1v1 new mod in w3champions? Heard it's pretty good and popular, tried it myself a bit

[@wolfcastle462]

Seems like a fun game but not that interesting to watch as a viewer. Direct Strike has the perfect version of chess like preparation and drama of the fight like Mechabellum.

[@matheusnucci]

I used to play this mode a lot in 2010. good old times

[@AceVenturaWhenNatureCalls]

Hey Grubby, did you ever play Footmen Frenzy? That was one of the all time greats.

[@HackerArmy03]

I think the version Wtii plays is the much better one?

[@POWerrrrlGrind]

Dam im playing custom games for my whole life and never met so toxic players in LTD. i would even sey people have so much fun when they get full lobby and just do whatever they want

[@SpaceWitch144]

Seems like its w3champions, and its the worst I ever seen

[@MarcoNonMerrino]

"must be because your calm and welcoming" it's a perfect answer for a passive aggressive toxic dude

[@inthedarkness1858]

Any one know what app grubby use to play war3 ?

[@Folsari]

Age of Wonders 4 soundtrack? 👀

[@viking6903]

Grubby I love the new content as you experiment with new modes and maps Castle fight stream was very fun too

[@diegorosa2292]

So as a "quite experienced" player of this game-mode, I'm in pain after 10 minutes of watching this. I'm not going to be rude as every pro player is doing with newbies (as everyone is saying that, I agree it’s true) but I'm going to explain why it is so hard and why pros get mad when a newbie is in the game in 3 points: 1. The game is very punishing: If you start in the wrong way, you will probably end up in losing (and i'm talking about good players but bad start, you can imagine how worse this can be if you are a complete newbie). 2. It's quite complicated and there are many things to know: There is no way for you to be able to keep up in the first game if you have no experience and, unlucky, is not one of those games where someone can carry you: if you are leaking hard, you are gonna lose, no matter if the other 3 players are good af. 3. It is almost impossible to explain in “real time”: As everyone noticed, the first stage of the game last just one minute. In this minute you also need to see what you got, make towers, make wisps and in the same time explain to the newbie where are things, what to build etc (this if and ONLY if you know that there is one, because most of the time the newbie doesn’t say “I’m a newbie” which ends in a game lost, for the first point of this list). If that was not enough I’m a fast writer but I ensure that explain to a newbie in real time is almost impossible here. I’m barely able to do that in a call. Unlucky, if we merge all these 3 points, we will have the answer to the question “why ppl are getting mad if you haven’t got at least a minimum knowing of the game. I can ensure tho, that the game mode is very fun and if you’re able to spend just 10, maybe 20 minutes on KZbin you will be getting to at least know the basics which are more than enough.

[@Datatwunk]

Finally, Grubby playing my favourite wc3 game... It is still quite active in Dota 2 client, getting frequent updates to shake up the meta a little.

[@anotherrandom1]

Im more than sure that after two more episodes I (and surely many more) will learn this game from you!

[@anotherrandom1]

Dude pls some more legion TD videos, so much people want to know how to get better at this game. And its actually quite normal to leak, i have no idea how people survive in this gamemode

[@anthonysantellan9577]

Man i use to love legion tds. That and custom hero footmen, too much fun.

[@georgeady6322]

Man! This is a dream come true! :) I love legionTD

[@AceStrife]

Communities like this are why I shy away from playing any competitive team games... I feel like the only time to get into them is shortly after release. Once the playerbase gets established and the tryhards rule it, it becomes a toxic nightmare.. god forbid 15 years later. That said, I tried playing Legion TD2 and... the tutorial not only is the UI completely messed up with its alignment (probably 21:9 issue), but the tutorial itself broke and wouldn't let me build the golden buckler. This is a $25 game that released 3 years ago. Pretty unacceptable.

[@HarriCS2]

Survival Chaos is also very fun, also nice to watch on YT. I liked it anyway.

[@palhacohermes7184]

For me, its Footmen vs Grunts.

[@kevingause9526]

The wc3 version is way better 😅

[@omarhady185]

Hellhalt versions are better i guess

[@Riokaii]

would prefer the start of this video to be edited down a bit more to cut out the dead air of issues

[@yamine_Q_ray]

are the castle fight and direct strike communities just the actual outliers?

[@MittensOnly]

20:16 Grubby's Spanish is great

[@BulletDarkness]

They made a Legion TD 2 for steam that I enjoyed quite a bit

[@CaiisGaming]

people are so delusional, usually i can make fun off those chatters but those are crazy And quick math if they are as good as they think they should quickly rise in rank as soon as new players come since the opponent team should have a ~33% higher chance to have a newbe

[@pepelich7941]

Grubby, the Destroyer of Game Modes... just by playing them on Stream xD

[@SushZeBoi]

Grubby should now play with wtii, become his disciple

[@justtoadit8067]

Same reaction to my first Legion TD YPRAAC game that i had years ago 😂

[@TheHalogen131]

I wonder how Grubby would like a totally different map called Cruiser Command.

[@RoshanSlayer]

YAY LTD is my childhood!

[@nicspan4901]

Yes been waiting for this 😊

[@AustralianTakeOver]

This gamemode used to be GOATED with ENT, because we used to have a community Wikipedia that had Build orders ect and legends life LFoward with videos but ever since Hellgame mode has become the more popular variant it is filled with noobs that will never learn and mentally unwell 1500 elo players that really think they deserve to be at 2k+. It's quite funny and hurts my soul to watch grubby's Wc3 knowledge actually be a major hinderance too this gamemode because they do not translate well between game modes at all. ENT was golden era and blizzard ruined it. Legion td2 never will be as good as that.

[@ArthasTheLiftKing]

We need an Axe game with Grubby in DOTA 1 :>

[@turdferguson4447]

I played legion td on steam for awhile it has its own standalone game now

[@taffy1798]

You should try out Test of Faith. It's one of the custom games I occasionally play.

[@Awsomotron]

Has grubby tried werewolf transylvania? he should try it if he hasn't

[@TheRoflbbq]

Never tried legion td but I do enjoy some squad td also line tower wars.

[@krosiumprd474]

Time to try Zombie defense. Very difficult but really addictive :D

[@adeadcrab]

your world is crumbling around you

[@SolusBatty]

Ohh, haha, Grubby went full blind into this. :D

[@Robocop2134]

My god I will not touch this gamemode with a 10 foot pole.

[@mugiwara9602]

Legion td is fun i have been playing it for years and used to play it back in the days also... but direct strike is better imo I like the whole hero thing in direct stike.. also I remember a game called rival nations back then it was so fun...

[@NorthzYT]

I don't like watching Grubby learn new maps like this. I get that he wants the new player experience but for a team game I think it's disrespectful if you don't at least read up on the bare basics first. Displaying a small amount of effort prior to jumping in goes a really long way.

[@SpaceWitch144]

Toxic

[@G1ingy]

"Disrespectul"? It's just a custom map on a decades old game, with nothing at stake.

[@niszczuu3446]

​​@@JJ-ce8gzyeah lets compare wow raids to custom hosted games on wc3 it's for sure not toxic at all. Especially that you can write in the lobby names that it's for noobs or even use the ranking system that some of the legiontd maps use. But no lets host a casual version of the lobby and bitch about people wanting to learn

[@niszczuu3446]

​@@JJ-ce8gzbut at the same time it seems like Grubby joined a ranked game so he is the one creating problems.

[@dizzyheads]

Oh man I remember this people leave so often in this

[@VespaTTV]

It's difficult playing on BNET as well since every lobby acts like a ranked game lol they always want to know ELO

[@dark8118]

^ + leavers.

[@asanjawa]

Reached 1700 matches of legion TD myself yesterday. Not this version though.

[@jireh7931]

Are we going to find something more toxic than dota?

[@SpaceWitch144]

Already did

[@Thesajlem]

the best w3 tower defense is You TD by far

[@EutCake]

You shouldn't enter "ranked" as a new player.. It's low-key toxic, if you enter by mistake or once sure "fine" but come on... You're not meant to learn the mechanics in ranked, you ruin others ratings and experience. When you just as easily can learn it without ruining it for others. Please.. /edit. Is ranked the only option or what? If so then i take back what i said, but someone in this video said you could play solo to learn or something, guys and gals, don't get angry when you join a "ranked" game where people play to improve their rating and they get mad over someone potentially losing them rating. (It takes like max 1-2 min of your time to learn the base mechanics before you go in and join a ranked game..) It's as if people don't understand what "ranked" means..

[@faridshojaei810]

Grubby you should try a map called warlock it's a lot of fun specially with a community

[@dimitaranastasov994]

Want also 1 game on Risk Reforged to 😢

[@oscara1573]

🦀 thumbnail

[@yousif4]

I don't get why they say learn Legion TD in Bnet when I got this same toxic behavior there. Toxic cause bad? Not how it works!

[@ActAppaIled]

Nice, fun to see you branching out and trying games. Still waiting for the possibility of you playing total warhammer multiplayer with Turin. (Bit of a bigger ask) Either way good stuff, hope you are enjoying yourself. I am

[@fatal4204]

LOL

[@turkish.videogamevoice]

Play Legion TD on Irina Bot please

[@RustledBurritos]

Yo, just play with Wtii, he does this game very few days, welcoming and a swell guy, he's also explaint he game to you