How to Balance Scythe | A Guide to Bidding

EDIT: the new bidder is at www.belovedpacifist.com
The old one was decommissioned.
Balance the game of Scythe by using a bidding system to assign faction/mat combinations.
LIKE and SUBSCRIBE for more content!
Resources:
Scythe Bidding App - scythe-bidder.herokuapp.com/
Current Tier List - belovedpacifist.com/tiers
Last Tier List Update - • Scythe Tier List Updat...
Editor's Note: The digital edition does not currently track your bids. The players must subtract the bids from the end game score generated by the game to get the final result.

[@Mattamaza]

Scythe devs really need to implement this into the game as an option

[@pitpat479]

Oh man, you're such an pleasant person! Your videos are feeding and relaxing my brain at the same time.

[@scottarnold5737]

Great information man. Thanks. It was super fun gaming with you. What does the name FOMOF stand for brother?

[@jrhawk0032]

Seems like I saw this conversation come up recently

[@johnathankokoski]

Great video

[@rnghwdbcs]

Another great video! Some thoughts on the topic: For me the word "unbalanced" has a lot of negative feeling to it. It is impossible to perfectly balance any game for players with this level of advancement. Firstly, once people's number of plays surpasses the number of playtests (roughly), it's natural that they will find better or more nuanced strategies than found during the development of a game. Secondly, as most people will play the game only several times, the designer should try to balance the game for (relative) beginners, so that casual players can enjoy the game in the first place. So I think that birth of balancing mechanisms like biding (or draft) is a natural consequence of players just getting better at the game. It's actually amazing that it works so well in Scythe!

[@FOMOF]

I agree with all of this. Thank you.

[@zeroisnine]

In many games (especially, MOBAs, i.e. League of Legends), there is a Ban/Pick phase that controls what powerful stuff is available in the game. Not specifically applicable to Scythe, I think. But I think it shows thats there is nothing wrong with a competitive scene designing rules outside the game to make the game suitable for high-level competition.

[@SSA-X002]

I always wondered if there would be a way to also balance the game around 2v2 teams, I played some games that became more competitive once that mechanic was implemented, then of course we need to add some aditional rules, like crimea and rusviet can never be on the same team, just food for thought. Anyway I think bidding is a pretty good solution for now, I wish I had that on Scythe online in the near feature as well.

[@nigelgraves174]

Great stuff! Is there a way to adjust scores at the end of the game when playing on Steam, or is it just down to the players to work it out between themselves?

[@FOMOF]

The latter. There’s no mechanic in DE to adjust it. But it’s unranked, so it doesn’t affect Elo.

[@ahulse78]

How did you sync up who goes first from the tool and the online version?

[@Puduck1er]

Player order is determined by the production mat. It goes Industrial>Engineering>Militant>Patriotic>Innovative>Mechanical>Agricultural. Meaning industrial always start, if there's no industrial mat, engineering start and so on.... After that the turns are clockwise.

[@gregschroeder7136]

I have the board game but where to I start playing online??

[@FOMOF]

It is available on Steam for computer ( store.steampowered.com/app/718560/Scythe_Digital_Edition/ ) and in the app stores for iPhone and Android.

[@gregschroeder7136]

@@FOMOF dope! Thanks.

[@iagobastos7250]

I imagine that Rusviet - Industrial and Crimea - Patriotic aren't banned in tournaments as suggested by official faq due the bidding process, is that right? Also, if they've banned Rusviet - Industrial why isn't it ranked ss tier? You don't agree with the ban?

[@FOMOF]

They are effectively banned because the digital edition will not allow us to play them.

[@FOMOF]

Those of us who made the tier list feel that the SS combos are stronger than Rusviet Industrial, yes.

[@orbesteanu4tsa]

Hi Fomof, do you also play Tapestry?

[@FOMOF]

No, I’ve never had the opportunity.

[@orbesteanu4tsa]

@@FOMOF I see, ok. Keep up the great work, I love your content!

[@Zeretul90]

I'm just getting into Scythe and want to know why Fenris and Vesna are never talked about in any tier lists. Are they not meant to be played outside of the campaign?

[@FOMOF]

They can be used outside of the campaign, but we don’t have nearly as much data on them as they are not in the digital edition.

[@FOMOF]

They aren’t really used in competitive games or tournaments. 14 more dots probably wouldn’t fit either. 🙃

[@Zeretul90]

@@FOMOF Thanks for the info. I really liked Vesna's concept and was hoping to find some good combinations for her mech abilities. Guess I'll have to begin looking to see what I can find.

[@issadegen4501]

Bump

[@Panzerbjrn]

Looks like a cool app, sadly requiring a Discord account means it's not something for my group...

[@FOMOF]

Sorry to hear that.

[@jonobunge1273]

For people new to the game who have no concept of what to bid, do you have a rule of thumb for using the tier list to automatically assign coin differences? For example, if I believe all tier gaps are worth 5 coins, Pol/Eng (C) gets a 10 coin headstart on Rus/Pat (A). For 3+ players, the basis is from the highest-ranked tier in the game. Once players get better at it, they can then bid as per your video. By then, they will understand that tiers aren't everything, as player count, opponent factions, personal strengths etc. make a difference.

That's exactly what I do, with 4 coins increments. B is 0, S is -8… C is +4... I feel it's better than 5… though the SS tier is still problematic.

[@arthursimsa9005]

Good question. I would be interested in this as well. Although that kinda contradicts what FOMOF says: that what matters the most is the meta at YOUR table.

[@Fenix_Kage]

@@arthursimsa9005 Yeah like Nordic and Albion wouldn't be worth as much if they were both in the game, especially for the one that goes second. Another example is player count. Polania is stronger with fewer players and Saxony is stronger with more.