Are you fermenting sourdough bread wrong? | Fermentation Masterclass

Let me explain to you how sourdough fermentation works and how you cake use that knowledge to harness the power of making amazing artisan sourdough bread when you want.
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#sourdoughbread #fermentation #sourdough

[@Foodgeek]

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[@hairstoyou7248]

I would appreciate a demonstration of what your describing. What does the dough look like under/over or just right fermentation. Since most of your videos do that I expected a visual example. Thank you learn a lot from you

[@AlkonKomm]

overnight fermentation in the fridge (6-8°) has been THE game changer for me when baking sourdough bread. Not only is the taste better (more interesting/nuanced), but also the texture, the bread is more moist/juicy and stays fresh for longer, at least in my experience. You also often get those neat "bubbles" on the surface of your bread, I don't know what they're called in english, in german its "Süßbläschen". When I bake with sourdough now I mostly bake rye/spelt "Mischbrot" (mixed bread). After shaping I leave it at room temperature for maybe 1 hour until the sourdough "gets going", and then I pop it in the fridge for 12-16 hours and bake it the next day. Works every time for me, and tastes great.

[@primitivedaisy]

Putting the dough in the fridge helps the acetic acid grow, so there’s more sour taste in the bread. I love Sune’s Master recipe, it’s the only one I make. 😊

[@DaleBotterill]

We call them “Blisters” in UK. Usually a sign of plenty of steam early on in baking process, I believe, and certainly add to the crispness of the finished crust.

[@tomboyle4312]

@@DaleBotterill and also a good sign of getting the fermentation 'spot on' :)

[@couragedearheart2951]

Aaah! Somewhere I missed the leaving out after shaping! And actually that makes so much sense to me. Instinctively I would do that, but honestly, for some reason, that part hasn’t been stressed in any recipe I’ve seen. Maybe I overlooked it! That will really help!!

[@slarkkent3585]

How to get blisters on spelt/rye loaves? I basically do it almost the same as you with 2 differences: 1. I put the dough in the fridge right after shaping 2. My fridge is colder (4°C) Could it be the case that the blisters occur because of your baking method? Do you clean the dough from the flour and spritz it? How do you add steam? I am so curious as when baking with spelt a lot of things have to be handled differently (compared to wheat).

[@iceone1216]

I respect your science knowledge as I am a person where science was my profession. But you make it so much harder for a lay person to understand. I do what "bake with Jack" does. I make enough starter for 2 loaves, leave the remainder in the fridge for the next time. All I do is add a ratio of 1:1 flour/water mix and let it ferment at around 32° C for 6-8 hours or until my volume has almost doubled. I just check to make sure my starter is active. Then add to my sourdough recipe and follow Jack's simple instructions. I get great rise every time with a good distribution of air pockets. Proofing in the fridge is crucial for a good loaf.

[@sasharamirez2335]

I wanted to simply say Foodgeek is my primary baking channel. The methodical approach taught me so many things without having to do all those experiments myself. The style is understated but very "cool" and "jazzy". I love it.

[@Foodgeek]

Thank you

[@pauloconnor6331]

He's been a great mentor for me, too. Thanks Sune. No problem hitting the 86 F here in California.

[@enigmawyoming5201]

I have empirically determined that scoring dough straight from the fridge at 38.5 degrees F. is 134.25% easier as long as it’s done between 80.2 and 84.8 seconds after extraction. After 84.8 seconds, ease of scoring decreases exponentially and is roughly %= 134.25 - [(t - 84.8)^2 * .02546] where t= time in seconds since extraction.

[@Foodgeek]

😂🤣

[@Smokearoonie]

Exactly!

[@enigmawyoming5201]

@@Smokearoonie I’m glad you agree! I’m on the fence about the constant being .02546 or .02547. I actually determined the calcs to be .025465, but using data rounding rules, when the number that is 1 place beyond the significant figure value is a ‘5’, one should round to the even number. In this case, .025465 rounds DOWN to .02546 with 5 significant figures. (I hope I find a life beyond statistics and sourdough someday. Damn COVID has secluded me in a bunker 40’ underground since March 18, 2020. At 14:34:20 GMT).

[@Smokearoonie]

@@enigmawyoming5201 I couldn't have said it better!

[@enigmawyoming5201]

@@Smokearoonie - and I doubt I could say it again.

[@chrisconklin2981]

The weather outside is fierce. He who bakes bread is warmed twice. Nothing better that snow on the roof and bread in the oven. Thanks for this presentation.

[@Mrsjayramachandran]

During winter months I switch my oven on to 50C for about 5 min and leave my dough inside. Every other time I take out my dough to do a stretch and fold I warm the oven again for 5 min. I might do it once more during the bulk fermentation. This has worked nicely for me and the fermentation is completed in 6-8 hrs from the time I start mixing the starter to the dough. I always debated if I should go for 25%, 50% or 75% fermentation. I must say 25% does work beautifully. This gives me a higher oven rise. I do shape and leave in the fridge until the next morning.

[@johnc3826]

There is no end to learning about the sourdough method of making bread. Thank you for today's thorough analysis of the fermentation process. Each Sunday I look forward to a Foodgeek tutorial that I can enjoy with morning cup of coffee.

[@Foodgeek]

Thank you

[@carolineharwood6464]

I’m so pleased that you’ve made this video! I’ve been making sourdough bread for a few years and developed my own technique. I live in the South of Spain and it gets pretty hot and humid! I need to make it as simple as possible because I can’t cope with being in the kitchen for too long. I have a very active starter at the ready in my fridge (entirely rye flour). When I’m ready to bake, I take a dollop of my starter (unmeasured!) and add rye flour and water in equal measures. It takes a couple of hours to double in volume. Next step, I put all the ingredients in my stand mixer and let it do the work. Then I transfer my dough to a large plastic bowl (with a drizzle of olive oil, which helps the dough to slip around nicely!). I do a couple of stretch & folds inside the bowl (less work and mess, the better!). I leave on counter for about one hour in summer and two hours in the colder months and NOW FOR MY TOTAL GAME CHANGER …. I put the bowl of dough in my fridge for the bulk ferment (covered of course) and leave until the next morning. This seems to work all year round for me. The dough is always springy and risen perfectly for baking. I do the standard shaping (which is much easier when working with cold dough) and then put in floured bannetons and pop back into the fridge while my oven heats up. I can also leave in the bannetons for longer if I’m not ready to bake. It’s so flexible! I bake two boules in cast iron casseroles. So I am doing the bulk of my bulk rise in the fridge all year round!! Works perfectly every time and I get lovely, open-crumb boules. Why does everyone say that you can’t do bulk rise in the fridge? IT IS NOT TRUE!!! My final little trick - my local supermarket let’s me run them through their bread slicing machine!

[@Mrsjayramachandran]

Awesome! I am a bit jealous of your slicing.

[@carolineharwood6464]

@@Mrsjayramachandran Yes! I cannot slice bread at the best of times and I dreaded slicing my sourdough boules every time. Perfect solution 🥵

[@clementine2938]

Loved your technique .wow ! your local supermarket lets you use their bread slicer ..that just won't happen in the U.K..

[@londonviking3801]

Thank you Sune. I also find your dough calculator extremely helpful.

[@jeffwilliams707]

Thanks for sharing all the knowledge….I’m just beginning my sourdough Jurney and can’t wait to see my first perfect loaf. Will definitely be back soon!

[@AZG90]

Very interesting and useful content. Please keep them coming 🙏🏻👏🏻

[@penkast1605]

That was excellent advice! Thank you!

[@moonsong92]

Thanks. You gave me a hint on how to fix my flat bread.

[@lbamusic]

Great summation..

[@rlwalker2]

I like the way this video explains the stages of the process and what to determine at each stage. I may tweak my process to include those stages. I do keep my fermentation to about 25% to avoid pancakes like in the past. Good bread but physically vertically challenged. For sandwich bread where holes might not be as desirable I might go a bit longer and use the tins. Thanks.

[@robpersons]

Very good information. I will recommend this to someone starting out baking.

[@Foodgeek]

Thanks, I think a lot of people can get a head start if they understand how it works before they begin baking sourdough :)

[@robpersons]

@@Foodgeek BTW, the only bread I now eat is the sourdough based on your original recipe but increased by 15%. The loaves are larger which makes it easier to use for sandwiches. I started a few years ago and have not looked back. I mix the wheat flour in the recipe from spelt, KA Whole Wheat, and Einkorn. Variety is the spice of life.

[@kathrynkabara9861]

That was great....I'm watching it again!!!

[@carriehenry7348]

I live in a high altitude high desert. So not only is the altitude problematic but also we are extremely dry. I have learned my dough needs more water than recipes say, also it takes longer for my flour to get completely hydrated, so the initial phase of resting and folding is closer together and longer. I have to bake at a higher temp to get a spring and color that other people can at a more moderate climate at a lower degree oven temp. My starter after I feed it ferments and rises faster and so in tern it also gets that alcohol smell faster. If I’m baking a lot I need to feed my starter twice a day to stop it getting hooch in the top, if I’m not baking every day I put my starter in the fridge and then take it out and feed it twice before baking with it again. I wish there were more videos about high altitude and or extreme dry environment then maybe I would learn other tips and tricks, but for now that is how I have been able to bake perfectly yummy loaves in my living situation. I hope this helps anyone searching for the same situation!

[@fernandamarques9173]

Thanks for the tips and i can tell you, i live in a place where the humidity is super high and hot, usually is 28-29C degrees but low altitude. If i loose some minutes to shape and proof it’s guaranteed I’ll have an over fermented bread. So to not loose the hydration on the ratio i like, i have to be fast on the process, is intense 😅

[@sura2047]

I love your channel! Another great video, thank you! And PS, love the dad joke 😂

[@aconsideredmoment]

Thank you for another wonderfully informative and entertaining video. Also, much gratitude for your thoughtful mic placement. I appreciate your responsiveness to feedback on this over time for us hard of hearing. It really helps. When the mic is on the collar, it results in a muffled sound that is both loud and hard to understand. Thanks again!!!

[@Foodgeek]

Thank you

[@KeithRouda]

One of your best!

[@Foodgeek]

Thank you so much

[@katherinemaas6712]

This video was very useful, but I think the best moment was seeing you tarted up in a suit! A whole new Sune!

[@voldemortified]

I think I’ve been overdoing my bulk fermentation. I’ve been allowing it to go to 100% increase in size (measured in a straight-sided container, as measured from the moment I finish mixing. As I’m using a 20 minute “fermentolyse” process, and a 20 minute mixing process, this means I’m really looking at Over 100% increase 😳. Especially since I’m also doing a LONG cold proof as well, and my fridge seems to be around 6C. Also, I’m baking at ~2100m ASL (7000ft), so that explains why everything moves so quickly here 😆. Thanks for all the super helpful information in the video!! Based on everything you’ve shared here, I’m trying my next batch of bread with only a 50% increase during bulk fermentation (at room temperature), and a higher baking temp. We’ll see how it goes!! I’ve been getting delicious tasting bread, but I’ve been unhappy with the amount of oven spring I’ve been getting, and I think the problem is I’ve been over fermenting my dough. Fingers crossed these changes help!!

[@mamawlife7852]

I shape after each stretch and fold. In my last stretch and fold, i let it sit on counter for about 2 to 3 hrs, then i shape again, put in banneton, and refrigerate for up to 3 days. I've found the 3rd day i get a better rise.

[@genestangel9674]

Hi Sune, I visited my daughter's family in Salt Lake City this past Christmas. I brough with me all my bread baking paraphilia and flour for 4 loaves baked using your Master Recipe #2. I was curious about baking at 4600' elevation and googled for advice. That which I found suggested, as you do, to lower the inoculation. The one specific recommendation I found suggested lowering inoculation by 25%. So, in keeping with the Foodgeek's model of experimentation, I baked the first 2 loaves at 15% inoculation, using a very active starter. The results were a "pancake". The dough was over fermented. For the 2nd pair of loaves, I reduced the inoculation to 13%, and shortened the proofing % growth to just a 10% rise. The results were far superior... almost like the results I get at sea level using your Master Recipe. The 2nd two loaves were a big hit for Christmas dinner! Regards, Gene

[@Foodgeek]

Thanks for testing the theories in real life 😁🤗

[@marinaisaeva4024]

What is inoculation, please explain ❤

[@Foodgeek]

@marinaisaeva4024 The amount of starter in relation to the amount of water 😊

[@marinaisaeva4024]

@@FoodgeekReally Appreciate your quick response ❤

[@marinaisaeva4024]

I live in high altitude zone in Colorado, 9800 above the see, just start to bake bread and like your videos about it. That mean I should decrease water in my starter, make starter not 100% or just add less starter in recipes? Sorry for my confusion ❤

[@billabrams4271]

Great vid Sune

[@Foodgeek]

Thank you

[@ilyar7161]

Prefect, i wish I knew this when I started ❤️

[@nenben8759]

Quick question that'll make it a lot easier to follow your recipes while I'm at this point in my life where maintaining a sour dough starter seems relatively hard Could I, for alot of your recipes, use a poolish with commercial yeast? Considering it seems like your sour dough starter is 100% hydration Like 1:1 flour:water by weight, a pinch of yeast, left to ferment for like 2-4 hours, as a sub for starter. I'd love to make my own sourdough starter but I've tried before and I didn't succeed, and I'm not up for it at this current moment And a small observation from my time of baking at a higher altitude than I typically do I think I noticed some lovely oven spring

[@lia424]

i have been following your advice for a year now. i live in a warm climate 30 and more degrees celsius in summer. my dough ferments quickly in the summer , becomes jiggly, but if i wait for bubbles to appear on its top , then the dough is probably already over fermented because it becomes sticky when trying to shape it. so i shape it before and retard in my fridge, for about 12 hours ,temp about 4 celsius but high humidity inside because of the weather. i’m not happy with the baking results although the bread rises nicely most of the time, it tends to spread too, and crumb is quite dense. i think i’m doing something wrong, but can’t pinpoint what. any ideas sune? thanks a lot

[@gnawbabygnaw]

Thanks Sune 🤙🤙

[@thepiecesfit5049]

Do you have any advice for refrigerators that are on the colder side, often dipping into freezing? I basically do a 30 minute counter proof and don’t get any additional rise in the fridge during bulk. I get a nice crumb but it’s hard to predict the behavior. Tend to do 50% rise during bulk for this reason. Maybe purchasing a wine fridge is a good idea.

[@Foodgeek]

Well, I'd probably try and turn the fridge up a bit. Try some of the top shelves, the temperature is usually lower at the top :) I have my fridge set to 2C/39F, to not have anyt additional rise in the fridge. That way I can bake up to three days after I make the dough :)

[@flawedperspective]

Thanks Sune. I've had a lot of success with my starter, which is pretty aggressive. I use a high innoculation - 300g to 675g of flour at 78% hydration. 30 minutes to hydrate then 5 hours bulk fermentation at 22C, shaping, and overnight at 4C. I use the steam only technique (oven at 500F and off with a steam tray for 20mins) and get a really good spring on a stone. I wish I could get a more consistent ear - my one complaint. I score deeply and do a slight undercut towards the centre and it works 70% of the time. Thanks for all your advise.

[@Foodgeek]

5 houis bulk with such a high inoculation, you may be over proofing a bit. How much does it rise? It sounds like you're doing everything else correctly :)

[@flawedperspective]

@@Foodgeek I get about a 50% rise (1.5 litres) after 5 hours. 50g of starter are from dark rye (relatively slow but very sour) and 250g from unbleached white (aggressive).

[@Foodgeek]

@@flawedperspective Do you just use time, or do you monitor the growth of the dough during bulk?

[@flawedperspective]

@@Foodgeek Time is mostly a guideline. I cannot hold the temperature of my kitchen to anything with +/-1C because of afternoon sun heating the room. 5 hours is a minimum guideline for bulk rise, and if I need more based on not reaching 1.5L, then another 20-30 minutes sometimes helps. In late Spring, before the air-conditioner gets used, 4.5 hours can be enough.

[@flawedperspective]

@@Foodgeek Forgot to mention that refridgerate after shaping. Basically divide and fold after bulk rise, then 1 hour (more rise), then shaping, another hour in oval banneton (a bit of rise), and into the fridge for 12-18 hours (some but not much rise) until ready to bake. I only let the bread sit out while the oven heats to 500 (about 30 minutes).

[@StagArmslower]

I couldn't even create the starter until I raised the temperature to 77 deg. F in my proof box. After that I can prep starter at low temps. My bulk fermentation is still slow, and it happens later at final rest and in the fridge.

[@terracote6483]

Im high altitude. 3000 feet is fairly high where i live. Bf is about 8 to 12 hours from the beginning of mixing the starter to the water and flour out at room temp. I've found that unless humidity is higher than 60% (like today) then it ferments so incredibly fast that I've made a loaf in under 6 hours total time. I'm curious if i can slow BF by putting my sourdough directly into a 3°C fridge right after stretch and folds for the fermentation time, and if 6 to 8 hours in there would overproof it? I really want to be successful but it seems the weather changes so much that im consistently doing changes and cant find that perfect niche. HELP!! My math is terrible and I got lost when you said percentages, I need a visual for that. Do you have one to watch?

[@pkh2833]

I have a baking stone, heated it up for an hr. at the right temperature my sourdough bottom is still pale after baking. Any idea why? Reluctant to try again!

[@mirthadurand8901]

My bread always looks overfermented, I think my fridge is not so cool. In the morning the dough looks 25 % or more bigger than before fridge. How much should it grow in the fridge during the night? Or nothing at all?

[@katekramer7679]

Oh boy. This was incredibly thorough and helpful, but now my head hurts. One thing you mentioned in the video but I still don't completely understand - do loaves put in the fridge eventually look different if they're there long enough, or do you have to judge by time? My (limited) experience has been that putting shaped loaves in the fridge, even overnight, doesn't lead to visible bubbles or a jiggly texture. Are we talking days?

[@Foodgeek]

The jiggly texture is before you shape and before you put in the fridge. If your fridge is cold enough you should get the same results 😊

[@orrin4455]

it's all about temperature. if you put cold dough in the fridge you may never see bubbles on your dough, specially with a sourdough starter. most youtubers who do cold ferment, they usually let the dough rise at room temperature and only after put it in the fridge, even when they show a dough at the right temperature after kneading. Now, if you work with big doughs (10, 20 kilograms or more), you can put it directly in the fridge to bulk ferment.

[@Fucklesticks]

One mistake that i was making which resulted in horrible looking loaves with closed crumb *still delicious though*, was bulk over fermentation. I was esentially depleting all of the dough's strength before the final 8 hour rise. So when i got the loaves out of the fridge, they were so weak that barely any oven spring would take place.

[@Preehful]

Thank you for the video. By the way, I don't get about starter strength. In the video you mentioned, for weaker starter the number might be lower to 15 to 20% rise. And potent starter might be under-fermenting at 25%. Why is that?

[@Foodgeek]

Because a weaker starter will grow the dough less, and a stronger will, grow the dough more. If you use a weak starter it may only grow to 1.5 the original size making 25% a substantial rise out of the maximum.

[@leeow3n]

I've explored various shaping techniques without noticeable affect, with or without shaping the sourdough comes out great if I time fermentation well, that's all that matters. What's with all the elaborate shaping techniques if they aren't actually affecting the final boule?

[@Foodgeek]

I will certainly depend on a lot of factors, but boules are a lot more forgiving than batards, that's for sure :) But maybe it's time for another 'is shaping important?' experiment :)

[@leeow3n]

@@Foodgeek I do coil folds with a gentle stretch against the bowl as it's being folded in the mixing bowl 3-4 times at half hour intervals, I guess that may technically be considered a shaping technique. I just gave up on taking the boule out of the bowl to shape on the bench with a scraper, or do more traditional final stretch & folds.

[@Foodgeek]

@@leeow3n Coil fold is effectively a shaping technique if you're just doing one loaf :)

[@Foodgeek]

I think the best test would be to do a no-knead bread without anything stretching and see how a chopped-off piece would do in comparison :)

[@mr.renovator4859]

Hi Sune! Great content with experiments 😊👍🏻🇸🇪. Can you experiment how sourdough bread crum develops / rise dependent on SIZE of dough / hydration? Seems all sourdough bakers bake very SMALL loaves? I myself usually use 900 grams of flour per sourdough loaf……. Seems much harder with a big loaf @ higher hydration. EXPERIMENT-TIME pls 🙏🏻👏🏻

[@Foodgeek]

Thanks :) I already experimented on that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJSzqGSOosd7abs :)

[@mizo2452]

where to keep the starter if the temperature is +40 ?

[@Piery83_]

Hey Sune, thanks for the contents, really helpful! I have two questions. Have you ever tried to measure the pH value of the dough while ferment? The second is about the ambient temperature that are you referring in the video. Thanks again!

[@Foodgeek]

I've considered it, but I am not really sure what it would bring to the table. What do you think we could extrapolate from that information? :) Room temperature: 20-22C/68-72F :)

[@Piery83_]

@@Foodgeek as the fermentation continue, the pH value go down. If you measure the pH when the bulk fermentation is complete you can have a precise indicator for the future dough. The same for the end of cold retard 🙂

[@Foodgeek]

@@Piery83_ Wouldn't that be offset by how sour your starter is from the beginning? :)

[@Piery83_]

@@Foodgeek Yes, but i know that usually the sourdough starter should have a pH around 4.1/4.2 at the biginning of the process

[@voldemortified]

@@Foodgeek I just watched a video where they suggested the starter feeding ratio was crucial to your fermentation. By using a higher feeding ratio (1:5:5), you have a less acidic starter to begin with, and as the acid is a factor in the breaking down of your gluten structure, a higher initial PH at the start of fermentation is desirable for stronger bread. Haven’t confirmed any of this empirically though, so no idea how much of a factor that really is 🤷🏻‍♀️😆.

[@manuelalejandromunozrodrig5865]

Hola me encantan sus videos pero encuentro que necesitaría subtítulos en español para poder entender con claridad se lo agradecería mucho y muchos Españoles también un saludo

[@undefinedname8467]

good!

[@lesleyevans8782]

Hi Suni Love sourdough bread but I just hate the big holes please can you tell me how can I get a closer crumb. Writing from Wales in the UK

[@Foodgeek]

An easy way to to add some whole grain flour. 20-30% should do it :)

[@fargosnow994]

I bake at high altitude with very dry air. My kitchen is built into the bedrock without heat or cooling. It stays bet ween 21c to 22c all year around. I get the bread I want, but I doubt that very many people could use my method.

[@Foodgeek]

I'd love to hear a brake down of your method 😊

[@couragedearheart2951]

Would you please explain the difference between fermentation, bulking, and proofing?

[@sasharamirez2335]

Bulk Fermentation and Proofing are merely labels for historical formal stages of the whole sequence that seem to work for most bakers. But don't let the human's penchant for organizing things deceive you. Fermentation is happening the entire time. From the moment you incorporate the starter with the rest of the ingredients, till the dough internal temperature rises above 120 degrees Fahrenheit when baking, at which point the yeast will start to die off quickly . The stages have a historical context in that the town bakers have to bake a lot of bread, so naturally they came up with stages. You as a home baker do not need stages if you don't want to. I often bake sourdough that has no separate bulk/proof stage. I just incorporate the ingredient, let it sit for an hour, then do some stretching/folding every 15 minutes, 3 times, then just throw it in a basket. Four hours later, if the room was warm enough, I see a rough doubling, and I throw it in the oven, and I get good bread. If I had to bake 100 loaves, things will need to be staged. At that point a separate bulk and proof stage makes dealing with dough easier. When I "retard" in the fridge, I also have no separate bulk/proof stage. I just Step 1, incorporate ingredients, Step 2, let it sit on counter for an 60 to 90 minutes, Step 3, do some stretch and folds every 30 minutes 3 times (90 minutes elapse), then I throw into a basket cover with plastic bag and put into fridge for overnight. 12 to 18 hours later I bake it. Learn the right way first, follow FoodGeek's steps. Then later you alter as you see fit.

[@Foodgeek]

Proofing and fermentation are synonymous. Bulk fermentation is the name for the part of the recipe where the bulk of the fermentation takes place (opposite final or second proof) 😊

[@couragedearheart2951]

@@Foodgeek thank you! I have noticed the term “rise” is never used! Having lived in Europe many years, I love listening to you! And yes, you ARE a Geek! 👍🏻😀

[@couragedearheart2951]

@@sasharamirez2335 wow. Thank you! And I notice you have a very interesting combination of names! (I lived in Ukraine for several years, so Sasha is a well known name to me-but Ramirez is definitely not in the same family of names! 😀 I love it!

[@Foodgeek]

Well, rise is really only a part of fermentation. I can see how it can all be very confusing 😊 Maybe I should do a 'sourdough terms' video? 😊

[@TommyWingham-qv3es]

I need the telecaster

[@alanbrunettin5584]

Sourdough life for me continues to frustrate. I just took a loaf out of the oven and I got virtually no rise (it was 70% hydration). Like all my loaves, it deflated as I scored it and it didn't recover. It looked great when removed it from the banetton. (Sune, dude, your loaves NEVER deflate! Why is that? Mine also have a tough outer layer--despite fermenting in a plastic bag in the fridge-- that prolly contributes, to the scoring issue. Yours always stay looking supple.) My 1:2:2 starter was fed 3 times over the previous 36 hrs and tripled in size every time. I let the bulk ferment rise to 25-30% and It fermented in the fridge (38ºF) for 24 hrs. I keep following your master recipe and i never achieve something close to your results. Fortunately, the bread tasted great and we go through it in a day, but I make my wife crazy because she loves eating it but doesn't need to obsess with Sune-Perfection like I do. I don't know what alteration I can make anymore to achieve that. What could it possibly be? (oh, and I NEVER can achieve the window-pane effect no matter how many stretch and folds I do)

[@2adamast]

My flour is 10% protein where most youtubers are at 12.5%, maybe?

[@nancypeterson2489]

Higher percentage protein white flour is a must for me with about 10% wheat flour added. Also I never got the rise I needed until I started doing slap and fold at the mixing stage for at least 6 minutes. This replicates what pro bakers are doing when they mix mechanically. For me it’s a total game changer. Maurizio Leo has good videos on the technique.

[@Klink52]

600g flour 400g water 120g starter 12g salt Mixed and stretched 3 times. Proofed overnight in 76F proofer. Dough doubled in volume but was goopy like thick pancake batter Any ideas why??

[@welshrarebit1153]

Perhaps your starter was too acidic or you over proofed your dough

[@fattymcbastard6536]

Hey Sune, I may be new to sourdough, but I'm not new to yeast. The end of bulk fermentation is not a result of a food shortage. Rather, it's the result of an oxygen shortage. Yeast is healthiest and happiest when there's oxygen available, and it's only under such conditions (aerobic) that it's capable of reproducing, and it consumes oxygen to do so. Once all the oxygen has been consumed, activity slows, reproduction halts, and anaerobic fermentation begins. Anaerobically, yeast continues to consume carbohydrates and sugars, but the difference is that it's drastically slower, and alcohol is released instead of water. You wouldn't have hooch on a starter that's been kicking around unfed for days if the yeast wasn't eating. If you're skeptical of what I say, then I encourage you to use a blender to make a smooth thick paste of baked bread and water and pitch in some yeast. Bear in mind that a lot of carbohydrates (perhaps most) have already been consumed, but I'd be very surprised if the paste wasn't visibly active somewhat. An alternative to this experiment would be to simply to vigorously agitate (to incorporate oxygen) a starter once it begins to fall. Since the jar will be full of carbon dioxide, It would be best to purge the starter jar with air first, or move it to a new jar. You will see it begin to rise again as aerobic fermentation resumes.

[@Foodgeek]

No, that makes a lot of sense. That also explains why, when you punch down the dough it can get a second rise :) Thanks for the explanation :)

[@jklphoto]

Wow Sune, 25%? Does the hydration level or flour mixture come into that recommendation? I thought you were going to be recommending a test dough test tube or some such apparatus in this video. BTW, I baked Jim Challenger's KIS SD recipe today, which has only a 66% hydration, and got amazing oven spring after a 5 hour counter fermentation and 15 hour 39°F retard. Surprised I was!

[@69alid]

Is it ok that it took 15 hours to bulk ferment to 75% in a straight sided container at 23-24C?

[@Foodgeek]

Why 75%? 15 hours seem like a very long time. Is your starter nice and active? 😊

[@shawnwalch6448]

This is the # 1 thing i struggle with.

[@krissrepoomseth]

If I want to do long fermentation 24 hours , what temperature should I use ?

[@Foodgeek]

I usually do a warm (30C/86F) fermentation, and then up to 3 days in the fridge set to 2C/39F :)

[@hikarugo1520]

I'm confused about the expected rise in volume for bulk fermentation. Some recipes call for doubling in size (100%), some call for 75%, and you said 50%. In my experience, anything below 100% results in an underproofed loaf. Then, how come people can bake perfectly fine loaves with such a small rise during bulk?

[@WhichOrThat]

A lower bulk temp (68f) can handle a higher rise without over proofing.

[@Dr_Bombay]

Sune, what do you consider "high altitude"? i'm at 4,500', and i'm not sure if that really affects things or not.

[@Foodgeek]

I guess high altitude is where you dough is affected so you cannot use all the published recipes :) 4500 isn't terribly high, but it's crazy compared to the highest point in Denmark which is 550 ft ;)

[@Dr_Bombay]

@@Foodgeek haha, now that's a well-crafted answer. so what i'm hearing is: more baking on my end is needed to fully decide. : D

[@jennymckinney7175]

I think maybe my fridge is too cold for fermentation. I often leave dough in there overnight (per recipes) and am disappointed in the rise i get. Thank you for all the tips

[@Foodgeek]

Fridge is better used for retard (no rise), for a cold bulk I wouldn't go much below 10C/50F :)

[@paulwarren6062]

Hi Sune, when you say let the dough rise 25-50% what does that mean exactly? Does 50% mean doubled in size? I always get confused when people say this. In my mind, I assume double means 100%. It would be great if you could clarify this. Thanks!

[@Foodgeek]

The rise in percent is percent of the initial size, so it it grows 100% it's doubled 😊

[@paulwarren6062]

@@Foodgeek I see, so when you bulk ferment sourdough you only go to 25-50%? I've been making yeasted bread for years, and when I bulk ferment I always go for double. But for sourdough specifically, you don't want to double it, correct?

[@Foodgeek]

I only go for double when I want to bake something that doesn't break the crust. So like a sandwich bread or burger bun 😊

[@paulwarren6062]

@@Foodgeek Thanks, Sune! Cheers🍻

[@donaleen]

Why does feeding a starter at 1:50:50 give it a kick? It would seem then that feeding starter once a day would be good for it, I guess you would feet it at ratio 1:6:6.

[@Foodgeek]

Because there's an over abundance of food for the few yeast cells you add to the container :)

[@donaleen]

The more I learn the more confused I become. I can't see how having more food than the starter can conume would make it stronger.

[@donaleen]

@@Foodgeek I tried the 1:50:50 starter feeding. I expected it would take about five days to reach maturity. But it reached its peak in a little more than two days. So confused...

[@ndpitch]

Let’s do an experiment where I send you my starter, you feed it how I feed it, and then you bake loaves with both my starter and your starter! Would be really interesting to see how 2 different starters behave to the same recipe.

[@Foodgeek]

I did that with Hendrik from Bread Codes starter 😊

[@victoriathorlacius874]

My oven has a 40C “bread proof” setting. It’s like a time machine.

[@Foodgeek]

Wow. 40C seems a bit excessive, but if it works it, works :)

[@victoriathorlacius874]

@@Foodgeek It is, so I have to watch it very carefully, but the oven does not allow for adjustment, some KitchenAid oven designer decided to fix “bread proof” at 100F (37.8C).

[@Foodgeek]

@@victoriathorlacius874 Sometimes, if my proofer is full, I put my dough in my oven set to 30C

[@victoriathorlacius874]

@@Foodgeek Unfortunately for me the lowest temperature possible on my oven, outside the “bread proof” setting, is 170F.

[@Foodgeek]

@@victoriathorlacius874 Well, that would undoubtedly be an under proofed bread 🤣

[@juanjuan5314]

Hi Sune, I don't agree that a starter should, at minimum, double it size to be active. It will depend on the type of flour and container that you use for your starter... I don't think that the size of the started is a reliable measure about its activity.

[@Foodgeek]

What do you think is more reliable? For me it works no matter what flour or if it's a tall thin container or a large low container :)

[@juanjuan5314]

@@Foodgeek Interesting. With white flour (at least the ones we have in Switzerland) I never managed to reach x2. The maximum it reaches is x1.75. The minimum requirements of x2 could be misleading in some cases. I think I've noticed that the narrow the container, the higher it grows.

[@Foodgeek]

Did you try using really high proportion of flour/water to starter? 1:100:100 gives me a starter that triples, at least.

[@juanjuan5314]

@@Foodgeek almost sure I tried, but let me try again, and I'll let you know :)

[@juanjuan5314]

@@Foodgeek So with 1:100:100 it has definitely not reached x2, and it still looks very active

[@weaponson3-158]

Has anyone ever skipped the final proof? So OK bulk fermentation looks at its peak, shape and bake?

[@Foodgeek]

I never do final proof. I did an experiment on it once 😊

[@weaponson3-158]

@@Foodgeek Really you don’t? That’s cool

[@taylerbrukilacchio5906]

good video @Foodgeek, but when you mention a "fool's crumb" you put up a photo that is certainly not a fool's crumb. In fact, the crumb looks great in that photo. I have some great fool's crumb pics, lemme tell you

[@enigmawyoming5201]

Hey Suni! I live at 7200 ft. (2195 m.), let’s talk about me sponsoring you to come bake in my kitchen up in the mountains, surrounded by pine trees!!!

[@Foodgeek]

That sounds amazing :) If you're serious, write me at the email on the about page :)

[@enigmawyoming5201]

@@Foodgeek I’m checking all the ways you say I can contact you. I’m trying to determine which social media app I can subscribe to so I can email you with the least ‘social media footprint’. KZbin is as far as I go, and even here I’m an Enigma. I’m serious in finding out what it would take to get you out here in Colorado.

[@Foodgeek]

Go here: foodgeek.dk/en/contact 😊

[@enigmawyoming5201]

Wow,… that was fast! I’m here, you are here. Wanna give me an email, I’ll confirm and delete ASAP.

[@enigmawyoming5201]

@@Foodgeek Got it! I’ll go check it out now.

[@simplybeautifulsourdough8920]

My fermentation would be a lot better lately if I would stop forgetting that I've got dough fermenting! 🙄

[@Foodgeek]

😂 Yes, that is a problem. I have timers galore to help me remember to check my dough 😊

[@nancyannesunboxings]

@@Foodgeek I used to, as well. I think I'm just out of practice. (Same person, different channel, BTW. )

[@helpyourbody]

I can sooo relate!!!😅

[@marilynthomas8890]

​@@nancyannesunboxings

[@123Fever321]

Altitude - maybe someone of your followers lives e.g. in Bogota and can provide you a helping hand to sort it out?

[@enigmawyoming5201]

I live at 7200 ft. (2195 m.) elevation in the US. I’m begging Suni to come visit me!

[@gordslater]

humidity and altitude? lemme just calculate the dewpoint before we take off...

[@sheckyfeinstein]

I anticipate the day when I get so fat (coming soon) that I won’t be able to use anything but velcro®. I know the wife won’t be putting shoes on my feet more than about a week, tops.

[@SergioGonzalezMartin]

I don't know why do you talk about yeast only instead of talking about yeasts+bacteriae

[@moniquehebert178]

Where did all your hair go???

[@fenris8477]

Sune please do more yeast based recipes. Not everyone does sourdough!

[@lindawilson3071]

I have problems getting all the great information in your videos because your voice starts out load and strong which I can hear well. Then your voice goes down low which I have problem understanding. This is in every sentence. Listen to your own videos and you’ll understand what I’m saying.

[@mercedescosgrove7046]

Click the little down arrow to bring up the transcript. Follow along that way and you won’t miss anything! 😄

[@heavycurrent7462]

Why is everyone having a fake reaction face in their thumbnail these days?? Every mundane thing is so shocking huh. I'm scrolling down my feed and it feels like the majority of the videos' thumbnails argenerated by the same Ai.

[@Foodgeek]

Because it gives you more clicks. This video proves it compared to the last many videos 😊

[@Foodgeek]

I honestly hate all the click baity stuff, but if people don't come to me, I gotta attract them somehow 😊