Why Arctozolt Had To Be Banned 3 Times

[@dreadfury2485]

Arctozolt is the tiering anomaly to rule all tiering anomalies. The thing has been around for a single generation yet it’s lived a defensive Water/Ground mon’s lifetime in that short span of time.

[@foofootoo]

😆

[@Hyperneosonic97]

Ah yes, the Quagsire conundrum.

[@artimist0315]

@@Hyperneosonic97 and seismitoad

[@Hyperneosonic97]

@@artimist0315 Ehh... not really. Seismitoad's always just been a worse Gastrodon.

[@Arl-es]

@@Hyperneosonic97 It the other way around, Semitoads almost always prefer over Gastrodon besides gen5

[@Hamanuna]

Kinda funny how Arctozolt and Dracozolt finally are together in the same tier

[@foofootoo]

Yeah it's weird how they ended up together. Dracozolt certainly had a head-start but Arctozolt caught up in the hail!

[@MLGProMaster-tu9tz]

@@foofootoo it caught up using Slush Rush

[@angrycinnabon2956]

Always liked the Zolts more tbh, not even from just a competitive standpoint but design one. Dracozolt just looks so happy!

[@MLGProMaster-tu9tz]

@@angrycinnabon2956 Dracovish looks so fucking cursed and it's funny lmao

[@angrycinnabon2956]

@@MLGProMaster-tu9tz and then there's Arctovish, who is so damn close to being normal but sadly his head was rotated in the wrong direction. I pity him.

[@dylanblade9078]

I never realized how strong arctozolt actually is .

[@foofootoo]

The type coverage in its STABs is crazy good, and Bolt Beak is insane

[@PansyPops]

It’s somewhere between incredibly strong and pathetically weak. It all depends on the rule set- if Snow Warning is allowed then it’s a sweeper, otherwise it’s practically PU.

[@GaleDDS2]

It's Stab and Coverage is good so

[@忌まわしきジンテイ]

We now have i think 2 Galarian Fossil Pokemon Banned i think. Arctozolt w/Bolt Beak, and Dracovish w/Fishious Rend i think.

[@YarnLalms711]

*Arctozolt about to drop to PU* Arctozolt: I’m gonna do what’s called a pro gamer move.

[@bryanwharton6692]

Lol

[@tysondennis1016]

Arcozolt in Gen 8 going on the rollercoaster

[@hirocoldy6023]

*Drops to PU* Arctozolt: hell no. *Gets banned from UU* Arctozolt: Much better.

[@frozenoutsideoctober818]

More like 'hail' no I'll leave now

[@darkspiro6467]

@@frozenoutsideoctober818 no no you can stay I like puns

[@astralguardian5930]

@@frozenoutsideoctober818 Hey! Stay around and *chill* with us man! Actually...why don't I join ya?

[@Pixelusually]

@@astralguardian5930 that's just the icing on th- No, that's a bad joke, I'm not even finishing it

[@Fletchender]

@@Pixelusuallythat joke was honestly kinda nICE

[@TunaBear64]

The fact Hidden Power got removed and almost every Electric-type lost its valuable Ice coverage also boost Arctozolt popularity Imagine if Arctozolt didnt get outspeed by ONE point against scarf lando

[@foofootoo]

That speed difference is pretty frustrating

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

That's what snow cloak Articuno is for (doesn't actually do anything for most of the match, just sits there to mess with lando)

[@dev5655]

That is the most painful, infuriating edge case I've ever seen. I love it

[@Almond19912]

Alolan sandslash doesn't have the same issue, but the fact that steel ice is such a bad combo for coverage and quad weaknesses, as well as being solely physical, really nerfs it compared to arc. Shame because it's my favourite mon :(

[@ArtisChronicles]

@@Almond19912 it's quad damage with double weakness. Not a quad weakness. The damage output would be so much crazier on quad weakness. It would also mean attacks themselves have finally become multi type.

[@perladel95]

I think it's worth saying that: in September 2020, Piloswine usage was quite mediocre around 7%. Then Arctozolt dropped and, in October 2020, Piloswine was the most used mon with 24% usage because it was basically the only check to that fossile (something like Magneton or Lanturn still feared Stomping Tantrum or Freeze Dry)

[@foofootoo]

Yeah Pilo was the niche check to it that became mainstream, hail was too threatening to ignore, and Arctozolt's coverage was too insane

[@rhydonphilip]

@@foofootoo I can add in addition to that statement. Arctozolt unlike the other pokemon on the banslate you mentioned was available to us in NU directly at Crown Tundra thanks to the ability patch. We couldn't have really banned it right away despite knowing well enough that it was broken. It's standard to wait if we know a big wave of tier changes are about to hit us anyways in a near future. Thus for that time Piloswine climbed to massive usage to check a near singular obvious broken threat. Even after the ban, you explained it quite well, we had other options like Arctovish. Initially, you didn't add this aspect to it. Arctovish itself has Aurora Veil, and this tied into why we banned Aurora Veil. The last gen way of using Aurora Veil involved setting hail with a setter, potentially sacking the setter, and than going to a weather abuser with Auroa Veil (Sandslash-alola, but now in this gen also Arctovish) and maintaining offensive pressure to assure Veil. This gen we gained Vish to do that, but also weather setters with Aurora Veil in Aurorus/Abomasnow creating variety in Stealth Rocks or outs to Fat water pokemon respectively while setting Hail. This combo was so oppressive that the sole answer to this set up was Vaporeon as Vish needed Life Orb Freeze Dry with investment to 2HKO that, which ment you couldn't run Light Clay either. And for just 2 team slots you had a solid opening, screen support without loss of momentum, and potentially Stealth Rocks and set up in someones face with up to 4 set up pokemon making even Turtonator a valid threat. Even with the at-the-time limited list of set up pokemon we had concerns to follow up with bans on Veil at some point. Though these concerns are split from the time stamps of Arctozolts oppressive introductions as they lingered during that instead.

[@ActualTrash8]

Then you realize it can learn surf …

[@elmago2808]

Wait Piloswine? Not Mamoswine? Is it because of Eviolite?

[@perladel95]

@@elmago2808 I was talking about NU. Arctozolt and Piloswine were allowed in NU. Mamoswine wasn't. Because it belongs in UU

[@kjwd5826]

The one mon I could think of was Quagsire, it did not care what tier it went to at all, it’d just pop up and somehow be viable lol

[@foofootoo]

Very true, that Pokémon is weirdly viable in a ton of tiers

[@kingdomofbird8174]

@@foofootoo QUAGSIRE MAKING ZACIAN CRY

[@duddude321]

I remember when False Swipe Gaming covered Quagsire. They didn't even know what to make of it. Viable, but not too viable everywhere but Little Cup, and for that you could use Wooper.

[@i.theworstguys298]

It has the second best defensive typing, an amazing ability that stops setup sweepers, and a recovery move. That’s all it needs to find a niche in literally any tier at any given time.

[@IronFreakV]

Quagsire is the one Pokemon that just ignores the tiering system becuase of how epic it is. One day it's a PU mon, the next day it's in Ubers.

[@Random-yg1fi]

Arctozolt going from NU to PU to RU to PU and then finally UUBL be like: “Parkour!”

[@foofootoo]

😆

[@EliteDiamond.]

What does nu pu ru uubl mean?

[@GhostbusterPalu]

@@EliteDiamond. NU is NeverUsed, which is a tier for Pokémon with pretty low usage. PU is a tier lower than it, and it supposedly means "pee-yeew", as in "Pokémon that really stink in competitive play". RU is RarelyUsed, which is Pokémon that, by usage, are, well, rarely used. Finally, UUBL is UnderUsed Ban List, Pokémon not allowed in UnderUsed.

[@Leet-iz2fz]

@@EliteDiamond. To add on to what the above reply said, the tiers in descending order are: - Anything Goes/AG: A tier that exists solely because of Mega Rayquaza. It means there are no restrictions on anything whatsoever. - Ubers: The ultimate ban tier before Anything Goes. Most if not all of the Pokémon here could singlehandedly dominate any lower tier, requiring them to be put up here with their fellow abominations of strength. - OverUsed/OU: The primary competitive tier, with plenty of variety in its roster and a healthy metagame... most of the time. - UnderUsed/UU: Pokémon in this tier are *decent,* but unable to properly thrive in OU. - RarelyUsed/RU: To my knowledge, this tier didn't always exist, but after later generations added so many Pokémon of varying power levels that there was now a clear gap between UU and NU, RU was created to fill that void. - NeverUsed/NU: Until Gen 6, the absolute lowest tier to have an actual metagame. Pokémon in this tier, save for a few niche cases, would be ground to dust in OU. - PU: Like the previous reply said, PU isn't an acronym, it's just a joke about how everything in this tier stinks. Created in Gen 6 after Mega Evolution, Fairy-types, and other sources of powercreep caused formerly decent mons to drop to NU, so the mons that were already in NU and some Untiered mons got sent to a new bottom tier. - Untiered/ZU: If a Pokémon is absolutely unusable, not even having any advantageous niches it can exploit in a Singles format, this is where it ends up. There is no Untiered metagame, though the introduction of PU allowed a few lucky mons to escape this realm of obscurity. - Little Cup: If a mon is Untiered-level trash solely on account of being the first stage in an evolutionary line, it winds up here, in a metagame surrounded by other first-stagers. Some first-stage mons can still be so powerful they get banned to one of the big boy tiers. - BL (either BanList or BorderLine depending on who you ask): I don't know if every tier has its own BL or if that's only a UU thing, hence why I separated it from the rest of the tiers. A Pokémon in BL is both too good for the tier it's been banned from, and unable to achieve viability in the next tier up, leaving it in a sort of limbo. Remember that void I mentioned RU being created to fill? This is that void.

[@medea8395]

@@Leet-iz2fz this is genuinely an extremely good overview of smogon tiers

[@santosic]

As soon as I found out it had access to Slush Rush, I immediately got to work on making a Hail team with this guy at the center of it. Easily became my favorite team I'd ever made. Man, he hit like a truck and decimated everything in his path. I often got people who were surprised at how hard he hit and how he kept outspending everything they had lol. I'd been out of the loop when it came to Smogon so I had no idea it had gone through all of that, but I'm not surprised because he became my most used Pokemon and the team my first choice against my friends when battling them lol. So proud of the little underrated guy ☺️

[@foofootoo]

For sure, I think Arctozolt slipped under a lot of people's radar!

[@yetismeatis9102]

Arctovish be like: Time to be the weakest of my fossil brethren

[@foofootoo]

All the others are banned in high tiers. Arctovish has dropped out of the lowest tier 😔

[@yetismeatis9102]

@@foofootoo They done him dirty (Even if Dracozolt is my favorite)

[@primrosevale1995]

@@foofootoo Well to be honest from Arctovish's point of view, it probably looked like they were going up a tier.

[@mipho5899]

Well at least Armaldo, Bastiodon, Rampardos and Cradily still suck more. Maybe even Carracosta too.

[@simon6157]

@@mipho5899 in trickroom rampardos is a beast!

[@Justpassingby204]

Hail has been very popular lately in OU for the past few months tbh. I wouldn’t even call it niche right now

[@foofootoo]

Yeah that's fair, it's an intimidating playstyle to face-off against atm for sure

[@looneyloonatic]

I haven’t seen much at all

[@sephikong8323]

@@looneyloonatic Maybe you didn't, can't talk for you as I don't know how much you play, where on the ladder you are or if it's just stastics being at play, but Hail is currently maybe the strongest weather, feels so wrong to even utter those words to be honest (I personally think so but as always Rain is still quite viable so some might argue for it, I'd say that Hail has a better overall match up against many teams compared to Rain). It's actually insane to think about but Hail is now legit even though it was always thought off as the worst weather (granted ......... Hail might currently be the third most viable weather in gen 5 imo as well. Not because Hail is suddenly good there but because Sun is absolutely and utterly unviable and Ninetales is absolutely and positively useless whereas Abomasnow is low key not bad and Kyurem is as always a threat and a half especially with universal chip)

[@kirbycommon7570]

@@sephikong8323 Kanto ninetails has always been shit lmao. Also what about torkal gen 5? (Edit: Just remembered that torkal did not had drought in gen 5).

[@Justpassingby204]

@@looneyloonatic This part month I’ve seen a little less Bc ppl are adapting to it, but it’s been so commonplace since the summer

[@thenerdbeast7375]

I hope Arctozolt's story teaches people to not immediately dismiss Pokemon just because they don't fit one's narrow-minded view of optimal.

[@foofootoo]

It's definitely interesting to see how long it took for Arctozolt's true potential to be found

[@dragonkingofthestars]

[insert that quote about strong and weak pokemon i can't be bothered to look up right now]

[@alibaba3568]

It got better once it could access its Hidden Ability, otherwise it would stay below UU.

[@RandalfElVikingo]

Teaches Smogon*

[@bungusmcchungus]

@@RandalfElVikingo you know the people who figured out arctozolt was viable were top smogon tournament players, right?

[@MasterJayanX]

It's impressive and cool (pun intended) to see a Pokémon being banned from 3 different tiers on the same generation. The only similar case from another generation I can think of right now is Venomoth in Generation 6, which was banned twice during that generation. It was first banned from UU while being NU by usage back when Baton Pass was allowed and then, when BP was banned, it was banned from RU because of the sheer power of Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens. Edit: fixed some errors and added some things

[@foofootoo]

That's a really good comparison! Venomoth is a very interesting Pokemon.

[@ScottE-2]

Credit to the slow dino slowly creeping a chill into the competitive scene. That is what I think makes Pokémon as a game series keep its strength: an ever changing meta nearly balanced to what people decide to do. Even if I'm very anti-smogon I cannot help but laugh at the prospect that this thing single-handedly caused a new weather balance check for tiers under its second highest rating. To think I too was sleeping on Arctozolt's incredible viability.

[@foofootoo]

Yeah I find it so interesting! I don't play all the smogon tiers, but I like reading up which random Pokémon is having a surge in usage in any tier!

[@ScottE-2]

@@foofootoo Absolutely, they are monsters after all, got to catch them all. Not just that, ever since Gen 2 the level of customization has been near limitless making some able to completely counter a steamrolling sweeper (without hazards). Like Sudowoodo as much shit as some will give it for its speed, has the greatest potential to catch people off guard with Counter, Wood Hammer, especially in a trick room. Or you could Power Trick Baton Pass via Gliscor or Gligar in Gen 7 (not 8 since it isn't there). Something to look into along with maybe the move Gravity. For real, Gravity would guarantee a move never misses by adding 30 in accuracy for all on the field while revoking flying and levitation Pokémon since Telekinesis was removed for Sword and Shield. So many moves, so little time to explore fully.

[@heyguysdavehere2609]

Having stopped playing competitive after isle of armor I was shocked to see this video. I remember trying to make Zolt work on trick room and webs teams and thought this is almost there. Love that it finally got there with slush rush

[@qty1315]

The problem with using it in Trick Room teams seems mainly that Trick Room works best in doubles, and Arctozolt just doesn't combo well with Trick Room setters like Indeedee and Dusclops. At best, you'd sweep with Hatterene and have Arctozolt as a backup.

[@bigmonke3348]

Good buff for ice/hail would be to raise ice type's defense during hail just like rock types. Ice types really need a hail buff

[@foofootoo]

Yeah I really like that suggestion

[@bigmonke3348]

@@foofootoo Thank you!

[@rhydonphilip]

The problem with that suggestion is that it make the gap of weather based hail abusers bigger to the ones with weaker or no-weather related abilities. Why run a Walrein when Vanilluxe can do more damage, is faster and with the new gained defense boost hits harder. This issue is already apparent in Rock-types where Tyranitar and Gigalith almost exclusively distance themselves from the rather small list of other Rock-types. Ice-types their current lack of defensive type matchups is the main crux of the typing as the majority of Ice-types in the francise are slow, and all the ones currently viable are offensively oriented attackers in Darmanitan-Galar having an absurd ability combined with good offense, Mamoswine, Kyurem, Weavile and Slush Rush hail abusers + Setters. Even their addition of Aurora Veil didn't help Ice-types, it instead helped Hail and set up spam as it enabled teams to run 2 pokemon as a core to assure Aurora Veil in a weather setter and weather abuser for speed controll but also to set Veil on their end. This gen the setter of Hail can also set Veil for all weather setters, not just Ninetales-Alola. Meanwhile Glaceon, Walrein, Avalugg, Dewgong, Cryogonal, ..., you name it, remained equally bad as there were before. If they intend on making those pokemon better, they are almost forced to buff the weather related abilities they have, which almost all Ice-types do, like say Slush Rush for Glaceon, or they would have to add resistances for Ice-type. Even new pokemon like Mime-Galar to Mr. Rime losing speed on evolution or Frosmoth being the slowest of the moth/butterflies, they intend on making them slower, than also compensate their defensive utilities to at the very least work by type.

[@vitortakara7090]

ice type need a normal amount of resistance and weaknesses(3 weaknesses) and 3-5 resistances instead of 4 weaknesses and 1 resist

[@bigmonke3348]

@@vitortakara7090 Rock types have lots of weaknesses and are solid. The problem is that ice should resist water too

[@sarasaland4709]

Many Pokémon love BoltBeam. Arctozolt IS BoltBeam.

[@06kishanchoudhary59]

More like beakzard

[@Wesley-76]

It's COOL to see some of these Ice types rising in usage with their buffs in Gens VII and VIII as the Ice type is often considered the worst type and many Ice type Pokémon are low-tier or practically unusable.

[@foofootoo]

Ice types are very good this generation! Not least Galarian Darmanitan - this is a shining example of the fact that typing is only a small part of what makes a Pokemon viable

[@Wesley-76]

@@foofootoo Exactly! Before I knew anything about the metagame for SwSh, I took one look at Galarian Darmanitan's ability and was like, "holy crap 2 choice items that's broken!"

[@otozinclus3593]

I think bug and some other types were cobsidered even worse. Mamoswine and Weavile showed already that ice can be really helpfull for offensive mons, while other types are simply plain bad Bug for example, the only good thing about bug, is that it has 2 usefull resists with Fighting and Ground, sadly it gets demolished by its rock weakness and more importantly: Its offensively really bad too The only mon wich really utilizided bug as a type was scizor with Stab Uturn and good type combo with steel, most other bug types didnt even use bug type moves, Volcarona for examplebused HPGround or psychic or gigadrain.

[@duddude321]

The problem with Ice type has always been it's defensive viability. Ice types have way too many weaknesses and they're all very common ones, but only resists itself. That combined with the poor survivability stat wise endemic to the type and you have the platonic ideal of a glass cannon, which would be ok if Ice types didn't tend to also be slow. Outliers exist, Weavile is fast, Regice is SDef tanky, and Avalugg is Def tanky, but they're very vulnerable to counterplay. Anything Weavile doesn't 1hko will 1hko it instead, Regice has poor Def and Fighting/Rock/Steel weaknesses, and Avalugg has poor SDef and Fire/Steel weaknesses. A strong offensive presence could threaten all of them regardless of their stats if it had SE moves and Speed. Ice/Water has always seemed to perform well for survival though. But that feels more like them just being Bulky Water Types with the Ice type detracting from their survivability unless Hail was in play or you needed some SE STAB to scare off bulky Grass or Dragon counters.

[@otozinclus3593]

@@duddude321 I never tried to argue ice is a good typey sorry for the missunderstanding. I mainly just tried to say that ice types are bad, but really still not the worst. Other types like bug have nearly nothing they gain from their typing, while ice atleast gives the user an excellent Stab So I basically just ment ice types suck, but still less than other types because they are atleast good offensively I dont think Ice+Water is that good. Ice is near impossible to get played defensively, being weak to stealth rocks already makes you a bad defensive mon usually, but if you combine it with 4 weaknesses and only 2 resists all hope is lost to work defensively. Since you can only use ice offensively, you need a typing which gives offensive coverage and water is not one of them, water types still resist both your stabs and water only helps with fore types offensively (and there isnonly 1 defensive fore type even slightly used) Because of that good typings to Ice are Ground and Electric, because both stabs together get redisted by no type in the game and only a hand full of dual types

[@LinkNinjaMaster]

Just an observation, at 2:14 when talking about Arctozolt abilities, you kept saying "Volt Switch" instead of "Volt Absorb" and I didn't see any corrections on the comments or the video itself :p

[@champgreen9985]

Yeah that threw me off guard

[@Chadfill8348]

Trust me, thats very common

[@spookymoss5091]

Isn't he talking about how it would be able to handle volt switches with it's ability

[@LinkNinjaMaster]

@@spookymoss5091 He did mention that, but while explaining he said it had the "Static or Volt Switch abilities", and seconds later he said "Volt Switch was always the preferred option". It's at 2:14. I updated my original comment with the timestamp as well. :p

[@justarandomdood]

@@LinkNinjaMaster I think you typo'd ur original comment and added a 1 in front that shouldn't be there?

[@LegitimatelyLogan]

They all laughed at me for using this mon before the ban. Who’s laughing now smogon?!

[@Ashelybee]

I because that mon still look stupid as hell But that's the point

[@Younghoon15]

We forgetting that Moody Bibarel was Uber and actually straight OP

[@foofootoo]

That Pokémon is hilarious 😁

[@bloop-bo4dt]

I mean,its Bibarel,the evolution of God himself so i dont know what you were expecting

[@darko-man8549]

The defensive tier mishmash of quagsire Vs The offensive tier mishmash of arctozolt “Our placements will always vary!!”

[@DJarr216]

I allways hate it when a niche role in a higher tier rips away a pokemon from a lower tier where it's honestly doing fine. It's a fundamental problem of using usage as a tier decider and a bansystem that not only prevents usage in the tier it's banned from but also everything below it. I haven't played pokemon showdown in years now, but when i still did I allways felt like usage was a great argument to put a pokemon in a tier lower, but a poor argument to move that pokemon back up through the tiers. Like i remember amoonguss being RU for the longest time and then at one point amoonguss rose in popularity in OU which then ripped it away from it's home in RU and even UU where it saw barely any play.

[@foofootoo]

Yeah it's usually bulky Pokemon that happens too, stuff like Quagsire or Mandibuzz can be in NU/PU, then rocket to OU when they're used as a check to one specific Pokemon. It does seem strange...

[@natnew32]

I mean, you need to use something to separate the tiers.

[@DJarr216]

@@natnew32 I think voting is a better way then usage to move mons back up a tier. High usage in a tier above doesn't allways mean broken in current tier. it's like FooFoo said, it happens alot to bulky mons (mandibuzz, amoonguss, ... ) who suddenly spike in popularity in higher tiers because they find a specific niche for that pokemon (otherwise why did it go down in the first place) In a similar fashion I do not think slush rush should have been banned. the fossils are the offenders, but don't come tell me that slush rush beartic is the pinnacle of overpowered in RU. It's the combination of slush rush + bolt beak/fishious rend that was broken. Now, I understand why they ban the way they do. It's easier to do a simple ban, it's less complicated coding, complexity doesn't allways improve gameplay, etc. However, in certain cases a complex ban should be prefered IMO. If Arctozolt was UU to begin with, then I wouldn't be opposed to a simple ban. You'd only be affecting 1 tier at that point so a simple ban would do the trick and remove the problem from the tier it's currently in. What I don't like is that now a tier higher up the list has a problem because of a niche situation, a niche that isn't present in the lower tiers due to certain restrictions more justifiable as it had multiple offenders. In this case I strongly believe a complex ban is more preferable as it is not 1 single thing that makes arctozolt too strong, but instead a combination of factors. In UU you could have banned multiple pieces of the puzzle and achieved the same thing: No arctozolt + bolt beak No arctozolt + slush rush No Arctozolt + Snow Warning user in same team They all would have had the same effect as banning Arctozolt from UU but with the benefit of allowing Arctozolt in the lower tiers. Out of the 3 it is obvious that arctozolt + slush rush is the best complex ban as smogon allready banned slush rush in all tiers lower, therefor that's the one that if you would do complex bans, you should go with. But in the end, I'm not the one in charge, so all I feel is a sense of missed opportunity and sadness for the lower tiers who lose a fun toy for something out of their control.

[@natnew32]

@@DJarr216 The thing is, if you use usage rating for moving down but not up, it can become completely arbitrary whether or not a pokemon exists in a tier. What if a pokemon in a higher tier would be fine in a lower tier, however their usage in the higher tier prevents them from dropping? Well they can't drop, can they? This is exactly the same situation as Arctozolt, the only difference is that the pokemon hasn't been in the lower tier before this time. And yet the result isn't the same. Why? Why do pokemon suggenly get grandfathered into tiers that their usage DOES NOT imply they should get into? Other pokemon don't get the same treatment. Also, "UnderUsed" refers to pokemon that aren't used as much (in the tier above), so why is a pokemon that does get used frequently in the tier above allowed to stay? It goes against the tiering philosophy.

[@DJarr216]

@@natnew32 You don't get my point, honestly. Usage is a good measurement to determine relative individual strenght. If it is too weak, it doesnt see usage, therefor it drops. Pokemon who get banned are deemed to be too strong. Now say usage in RU rises again for a pokemon but the NU counsil does not think a ban is warranted. That means that the community as a whole doesnt think said pokemon is too strong therefor there is reason to keep it down. Yout argument about a pokemon with enough usage to prevent dropping maybe being weak enough is valid BUT if you do it for one you have to do it for all which means endless testing. The tiering system works best from the top down, rather then the bottom up. You could argue that overused is a poorly chosen name as is could lead you to think the opposite is true. It is too good, therefor it is overused. Pokemon with a niche role in higher tiers are what i would call the equivalent of tech cards in card games. If you look at their statistics you see something interesting. In matchups where there effect is usefull they overpreform compared to their average matchup. In this case arctozolt in an environment where snow warning and slush rush are both allowed it overperformes which is what warranted the ban. Take away the perfect combo and its usage crumbles. Evidence that without the perfect environment it is weak. Now if you look at combo decks in card games, you will sometimes see a combo that is too good to keep existing. If you then ask the playerbase which part of the combo is the problem then you allmost never get a unanymous answer. And what happened? RU said that snow warning was the problem. That wasn't the awnser cuz suddenly slush rush is the problem. Then the problem extents to UU and they then decide that is in fact arctozolt itself who is the problem. But we know artozolt sucks if you take away the thing that makes it broken. So then why ban arctozolt as a whole? It's the equivalent of using a nuclear missile to kill a fly.

[@pokemaniacqolem6495]

I'll put it this way. I want to pat and protect all of the fossils. I'm definitely moved by Arctozolt's journey... buuuuuut, for some reason Mr. Fish (Dracovish) just resonates with me so much more, so despite this incredible rocky adventure, I can't help but still favour other fossils over this brave little warrior

[@foofootoo]

That's fair, they all have such character!

[@pokemaniacqolem6495]

@@foofootoo while there are some other fossil mons I really like, I have to say that the galar ones are pretty unique... sad, but definitely stand out in both design and "feel" to them ^^

[@elilopez6260]

You can't get any better than, a pokemon that is an affront to god eventually having to be sent up to their tier

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

Arctozolt: *Gets banned from a higher tier while being in a lower tier* Venomoth: "You too huh?"

[@darciheadswillroll]

Arctozolt is so cute honestly, but it's so sad shivering like that

[@piotrdzieciatek3020]

I used Z Hail (+2 Speed on top of setting up hail) Bolt Beak Arctozolt on Pokemon Showdown National Dex and it was sweeping a lot :)

[@foofootoo]

That sounds super fun! I like that you can save the Z-Move for a Subzero Slammer if you don't need the extra speed too!

[@acekun6493]

Sounds cool. You could run something like adamant 120 speed to outspeed 110 base scarfers and have some bulk left.

[@arnenesbye2420]

Wich item did you run?

[@iplayznowyt9938]

@@arnenesbye2420 you need the icium z to use an ice z move

[@TunaBear64]

@@arnenesbye2420 Icium-Z

[@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913]

*This* is the epitome of what an "overpowered" pokemon could/should be. Not overpowering by stats or really eve moves. But just by a little finesse, graceful play and dedication

[@foofootoo]

Yes it's super strong, but in very specific circumstances

[@darko-man8549]

@@foofootoo and that’s what makes it so much better than the likes of Dracovish or zacian

[@mysticmongrel1289]

And it's also why Stealth Rock is so broken. It's too easily implemented

[@darko-man8549]

@@mysticmongrel1289 well, it's no longer broken really, but it took a lot ot make it not broken

[@mysticmongrel1289]

@@darko-man8549 It's still broken. If you need to keep introducing new tools to counter one thing, it's broke as fuck

[@erics802]

Since were talking about weather wars, here’s a concept Exeggutor chlorophyll Max speed skill swap Groudon max speed Choice band or scarf using precipice Blades and irruption Groudon set up Ken outspeed eleki

[@erics802]

Exeggutor is the only Pokémon with skill swap and chlorophyll together

[@foofootoo]

That sounds very fun!

[@erics802]

If opposing weather setters are interfering Not sure if this will work Groudon holding lagging tail Fast prankster user holding selected item using Switcheroo or trick

[@SPZ-gv2on]

@@erics802 Actually that would do good against opposing weather. When you swap drought to the other pokemon it activates and makes it sunny again, so it would reset the turn you swap

[@AmoniPaleo]

I know Its nothing related to the vid. But just a reminder that NFTs not only destroy the livehood of other more talented artists but the planet itself! That being said I hope foofootoo is having a wonderfull day!

[@foofootoo]

They are also silly and unnecessary and owning one provides no utility.

[@greenuvlight]

@@foofootoo wasting money for snotty snobs the art is mostly terrible as well

[@georgesteffey8375]

As with all expensive art, they're also used for money laundering.

[@MoCa1979Jr]

The change I suggested for the "Slow Start" ability to allow it to set up a temporary trick room (3-5 turns) upon entry, would also resolve the issue w/ Arctozolt's signature move (Bolt Break). Wouldn't that be a quick fix to a formerly "hindering" ability? And it'd be useful for slower partners like Arctozolt, during double battles. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@SnoFitzroy]

Why do people keep trying to think of "ways to buff Slow Start"? Like? Do y'all not comprehend Regigigas' lore or something? Slow Start is because it's taking a while to take up after being you know a slumbering giant for thousands of years, you're gonna take a while to get up after that Like yeah Gigas sucks because of his ability but that's literally the whole point. He's not SUPPOSED to be good. He'/s a loremon, not a fighting one

[@MoCa1979Jr]

@@SnoFitzroy I think you might have a "slow start" mentally. My suggestion is to "you know" make Regigigas's temporary "slow start" advantageous. Being slower would benefit Regi, because of the physics of "trick room" (where slower Pokemon have priority). Activating a temporary trick room upon entry is a unique addition to an ability which also temporarily cuts the user's stats. WTF are you even talking about "Loremon"? You do realize that Pokemon can have lore, & not "suck", right? And you're acting as if they haven't been improving upon Pokemon to make them better (& competitively more viable). And, the pre-existing Pokemon already has its lore, design, moves, fan-base, etc. , so it makes far more business sense to improve upon it, than to completely create a new one.

[@trxpcr4ck3d39]

Arctozolt is my favourite gen 8 fossil. I loved the way it looked and wasn't overused like dracovish due to obvious reasons. Ice typing is one of my favourite types in general.

[@Jamieiscool]

i think this is super interesting, as someone who only plays cartridge formats, hearing the rumblings of arctozolt’s uu ban was really wild. for what it’s worth, i think arctozolt struggles in vgc because of regieleki more than anything, the draco versions both outspeed eleki where as the arcto’s don’t, and having boosted speed only to still be outsped is quite a detriment. it also doesn’t help vgc is dominated by sun.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

reminds me of gen 6 quagsire, where he was a stall stalple in OU and that was its best tier, but it was used in litteraly every single other tier except PU, where it was banned because it walled everything

[@foofootoo]

Yeah Quagsire just does what it wants lol

[@nazeersadek6705]

Another great video Fo!! I’ve always liked Arctozolt the most when it comes to design so I’m happy it performed well in competitive

[@foofootoo]

Thanks! Yeah, Ice/Electric is such a cool concept too

[@MrJlink25]

Arctozolt was the first of the fossils I made and I remember my heart breaking at reading his Dex.

[@beanburrito4405]

Durant is another Pokémon that’s been banned everywhere, it seems like. It’s been banned at least 3 times, maybe 4 times just this generation

[@valorrye2342]

I think Torkoal has also had a pretty wild ride through the tiers but it was never banned (iirc)

[@foofootoo]

True, it's been all over

[@jesusorozco5420]

“Ice and electric go really well together” Arctozolt shivering to death: but at what cost?

[@toxiccrusader4880]

I think Barraskewda would be an interesting mon to analyze. From what I remember it went from OU, to RU, to UU, and back to OU similar to arctozolt.

[@user-kk8cj8pg1u]

I believe it’s because Rain is banned in lower tiers. Barraskewda isn’t very good without it.

[@Haroldino]

@@user-kk8cj8pg1u barraskewda is still very good without rain It keeps shifting tiers because it is the premier rain sweeper

[@user-kk8cj8pg1u]

@@Haroldino If weather got banned Barra would stay in RU. He’s not very good without rain. Too frail.

[@nathanrobbins2440]

Yes I love the volt switch ability to block opponents' volt switch

[@gangstersamurott2511]

I had this thing in a draft once alongside Ninetales-A, I went undefeated in main season just because how good that team was.

[@foofootoo]

Hail is so underrated in the draft format

[@OneMoreBookMatt]

That is actually one of the best videos I ever seen about competitive scene of pokemon. Thank you

[@foofootoo]

Thanks for the comment!

[@stevesamuals2651]

I know Mr fish was pretty strong, but I didn't realize his chubby cousin was op too

[@murder_krow951]

I'm glad that my favorite galar Pokemon has such a unique competitive history

[@justsomejojo]

Arctozolt reminds me of all those trick room only mons and other weather sweepers that are actually used in way higher tiers but end up in PU because their use case is just not a very commonly played archetype. It's pretty funny how frozen Woodstock over here got banned 3 times though. It also makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside because I unironically love this guy. Its design always makes me smile.

[@critaquil5011]

"frozen woodstock" LMLAO

[@zernek9199]

As someone who uses Arctozolt on the regular, this pokemon’s kinda nutty and I love it. I love all the Gen 8 fossils tho

[@FlareMasterCtimD]

The galar fossils look like they're in everlasting pain as half their bodies aren't theirs

[@BerryHunter]

The Quagsrie Syndrome attacks again

[@wubbers662]

G-Max Machamp being banned until the 3rd (season?) despite not being the strongest G-Max form be like: Haha, I good

[@ethanevans9688]

If we’re counting complex bans I think Exca has the same number of bans as Arctozolt. Banned from gen 5 OU as sand rush in sand, banned from gen 5 OU with sand rush period, and one more in gen 5

[@SnoFitzroy]

he's cute and he releases the screams of a million damned souls when he dynamaxes AND HE'S ICE TYPE I couldn't ask for more from this slaying beast

[@TunaBear64]

Cute, Powerful and Ice type, they are perfect (Arctozolt has no gender so I use they)

[@Jarrod0067]

*Arctozolt is now banned from three tiers* Actozolt:. ...and I took that personally

[@joemomma2218]

Always great to see slept on mons end up being meta. The best thing about arctozolt is that it isn't meant for just dedicated hail teams.. you can run it on HO teams with ninetails for screens. You lose 3 turns of hail, but when you're switching in and out and most HO mons only stay for a kill and switch out it really doesn't matter. Ice/electric are dummy good STABs too. Dracozolt can't kill anything because it lacks the coverage arctozolt has. It also can't run mixed sets because it sacrifices its already mediocre kill power. Arctozolt can get away with it because whatever it hits with not bolt beak is taking super effective damage.

[@ElbyHere]

Arctozolt is my favorite electric-type and fossil Pokemon across all generations, so I'm glad to find out how much of a beautiful mess they are competitively.

[@handsoaphandsoap]

Banning an ability is kinda silly tbh, like I get the intent but why not just bump the Pokémon with access to Snow Warning up a tier or the Pokémon that benefit from it so much that they dominate?

[@TheVictor126]

banning the whole pokemon from a lower tier just because the ability is even worse, why would anyone use abomasnow or vaniluxe when ninetales exists? you are just straight up deleting 2 pokemon from the game for no reason at all

[@Haroldino]

Also you gotta ban the NFE’s from NU as well so 5 Pokemon would be in NUBL

[@iantaakalla8180]

A good example is Aurorus. Aurorus’s only niche is instant snow setup and rock setup or Veil setup, and you wanted Veil because Veil allowed for so many setup sweepers to do their thing. Aurora Veil was banned in NU, so Aurorus became useless.

[@tyfive99]

Seeing Dracozolt use Volt *BEAK* with its _tail_ in the attack animation caused me physical pain

[@Tony_AM009]

I was not aware of the viability of Arctozolt(and technically Arctovish) or the journey it endured through the Smogon tiers. Looks like all 4 of the Galar fossil Pokémon were worth using on an in-game team, rather than Dracozolt and primarily Dracovish.

[@crimsonshadow1477]

What a wild ride, thanks for the info I was super confused as to why this thing was in ou+ tier

[@qthesorrow7899]

I hope someday we can get their real forms vs these Frankenstein fossils. I still like them but I want to see the true forms.

[@stllr_]

when swsh came out I tried to run an ice monotype, and I really loathed having arctozolt on my team. just felt like it never lived up to its potential, and couldn't hit anything hard enough. slush rush would've been sick to have actually. I might try and rebuild that team around the hail gimmick now...

[@ashemabahumat4173]

>"can't think of any other mon that has been banned 3 times in 1 generation" ...I mean. Deoxys. Technically 4 or 5 times, iirc

[@SPZ-gv2on]

One gen it was defense from UU and OU, speed from OU, attack from OU, normal from OU. So 5.

[@supersonic5432]

I'm just theorycrafting because it's been rattling around my head. Maybe this isn't all that great but it's an idea nonetheless. Maybe it could be somewhat useful on trick room teams since it has naturally lower speed? Run a Brave nature and have it switch into a neutral move to let it run wild possibly? Idk maybe I'm just capping XD

[@foofootoo]

It's a reasonable idea! They would have to have a Brave nature, and there still might be some Pokemon that would be natural slower, but it could be worth testing

[@emilysmith2965]

Seems dope! Test it :)

[@supersonic5432]

@@emilysmith2965 Sure thing! I'll give it a test run later tonight.

[@Mike-gg3mx]

it kinda dissappoints me that this generation made so many big impacts, when it was really the worst game of the franchise yet imo. the fact that they couldnt lay low for one game after masuda left the team in order to experiment just a little bit while not making a too huge impact on the games rubs me the wrong way

[@goreangel1258]

Arctovish with a slush rush, choice band Fishous Rend is so consistently breaking its insane, very few mons could genuinely hold out over switching in and taking yet another rend, such as Milotic

[@jacksonsmith2955]

the problem is that they don't need to switch, they can just stay in and destroy the poor thing

[@geometryemperor]

That reminds me of Gen 6 Venomoth, an NU mon that was banned from UU. Then, they unbanned it by banning Baton Pass instead and it was still too much for RU, and as such, they banned it from there.

[@notgabriel8624]

I’ve slept on your videos for too long, these competitive history videos are very entertaining, I appreciate you explaining certain aspects it helps a competitive noob like me

[@scrapyarddragon]

getting banned from UU over a specific niche despite it being obstensibly a low tier, and thus being abruptly ejected from everywhere else where it was doing nothing wrong, is why I don't respect smogon tiering.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

Specific niche: Beating over 90% of the pokemon while under hail. Doesn't seem too specific to me.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It is a specific niche because not many Slush Rush Pokémon can do that. And it specifically is a Slush Rush Pokémon because any other Hail-dependent ability is useless. You have Alolan Sandslash and Arctozolt. By typing alone, Alolan Sandslash is out because Fire attacks, Ground attacks, and Fighting attacks are common everywhere. Furthermore, Ice/Steel is not a potent offensive combo which is what you need to do good as an Ice type, or otherwise be fast. Also, Alolan Sandslash has to set up to be good, while under hail Arctozolt is fast and hits hard, requirements for a good Ice type barring Froslass (and it too hits hard). There is no reason to not use Arctozolt as your Slush Rush sweeper in OU, and there is no reason to use anything else.

[@critaquil5011]

@@iantaakalla8180 I mean, there is A reason to use alolaslash, namely, its speed and movepool are much better than arctozolt, letting it outspeed zeraora, scarf lando, scarf blacephalon, scarf kartana, and its steel coverage lets it ohko physdef clef, now, these benefits don't outweigh the downsides, namely, losing to corviknight, but they do exist.

[@babyboi3910]

Ice/electric is a very volatile STAB combination, it's extremely powerful offensively, but defensively, it's awful. But if you move first, like arctozolt kinda needs to, it can be insane.

[@kimyona9746]

Arctozolt also just benefitted from the fact that hail is just good in OU anyway. Veil offense is nuts and add your boltbeam bolt beaker and you can run pretty much whatever set up sweeper in the back since you got something that clicks bolt beak crash or stomping tantrum and shreds

[@300IQPrower]

“Local abomination against god too powerful to contain. More at 11.”

[@jns0808]

This reminds me of Mienshao's tier-hopping exploits. You should cover that too sometime.

[@Sgt_Viper000]

Believe it or not, I run Arctozolt successfully outside of a hail team. Thanks to some clever team partners, Zolt has found a great place on my team as a slow/fast attacker.

[@IceRuby-ur4zl]

The Virgin Dracovish V.S. The Chad Arctozolt

[@m00ncl0udzzzzz]

I would love to see you make a team/strategy video around Actozolt! It’s so cute and could definitely use some more love

[@armaggedon390]

Nearly ZU while also OU...that's just...wow.

[@foofootoo]

It's a pretty unique case!

[@doges6467]

I can’t get over the fact of how weak, non exclusive physical electric moves are. Wild Charge is basically a physical thunderbolt with recoil, while Aura wheel is 110BP with 100% accuracy and raises speed.

[@Thecloaker_]

“Why arctozolt had to be banned 3 times” Me who dosent understand competitive and only plays casually: tell me more.

[@austinrose3728]

I subbed because you named your Arctozolt “Thawful” and that’s hilarious

[@openinginawe5518]

My favorite pokemon Ed...ward...

[@primrosevale1995]

Talk about a Snotty Kid glow-up.

[@foofootoo]

😆

[@scylla1772]

I haven't heard of a Pokémon bouncing around tiers quite like this guy, but I do remember when everyone realized Klefki was viable in Anything Goes. That was absolutely hysterical.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

It was the premier xerneas counter for a full generation. The keys are funny.

[@icycrybaby]

Arctozolt and A-Tales core at OU sounds like VenuKoal core at VGC. U dont need to think about nothing but a Defogger and a Hazard Setter to your team

[@ironpulcinella3586]

I still think this "Pokemon" is Pokemon abuse I mean it shivers constantly and looks like it's in constant pain!!! Defo refuse to use these fossil messes, they make me sad.

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

A sullen bird watches from the UUBL sidelines, silently nodding in approval as Arctozolt still makes it big in OU after getting banned from UU. “Fly free, little one. Fly free.”

[@SPZ-gv2on]

Galar zapdos is likely to rise up to OU in this tier shift. It's getting similar usage to bisharp to deter defog.

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

@@SPZ-gv2on Wait what? I was thinking of Staraptor

[@SPZ-gv2on]

@@ThisIsntAKZbinr Oh lol. Staraptor had its place taken by galarian zapdos this generation as the close combating UUBL bird. Never realized that until just now.

[@lostlegion6366]

Funny how hustle, bolt beak, max speed, and max attack works with choice band on a dracozolt, I have wiped so many teams with that setup

[@lostlegion6366]

Pokémon Showdown btw

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

True chads love Arctozolt Still, I'd like the odd fossils would stop existing from here on. I'd like some normal non demon monsters

[@CaptainJLinebeck]

This mon is a testament to the sheer power of Ice and Electric coverage honestly. And Freeze-Dry even stops Rotom-Wash from being able to resist it.

[@NoBrakes219]

Welp just found my next hunt.

[@gigahonk5493]

It's nice to see how your channel is sky rocketing

[@RathFox]

I hate sword and shield fossils..they look like they want to die from the suffering of its own existence.

[@undercovertoni]

id like to say its very interesting that you didnt mention dracovish once, just showing how it doesn’t need any explaining how insane that mon is LOL

[@shadowoftheseven7992]

Funny thing is, I was working with this pokemon, knowing it's viability before I looked at how it was doing in smogon's list. Arctozolt was just one of my favorite pokemon, combined with alolan ninetales being another favorite. I always was looking for ways to play hail teams and arctozolt, my favorite sneeze dragon was always my favorite fossil since I first laid eyes on it.

[@Ziegrif]

I think Arctozolt needs a warm sweater, a beanie hat and a scarf. Dude looks cold as hell.

[@VerbalLearning]

What does PU and ZU stand for? I know the other tiers as those are sometimes referred to by their full name but i've never heard or seen PU and ZU fully pronounced or spelled out.

[@foofootoo]

They don't stand for anything. PU is so called because it sounds like pee-ewe, basically calling the Pokemon stinky and not good. ZU is so called since it is the last letter, indicating this is the lowest tier.

[@VerbalLearning]

@@foofootoo Ah, i see. That's actually quite interesting and now it all makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Much appreciated.

[@TunaBear64]

@@foofootoo PU = Poorly Used, ZU = Zero Used

[@BitchesLoveGoodra]

I've learnt that any pokemon I love tends to be a pokemon that Gamefreak massively nerfs. Seriously my favourite pokemon of each gen has been nerfed: 1- Gengar (RIP Levitate) 2- Typhlosion (Exactly the same as Charizard except Charizard gets soo much love and buffs) 3- Seviper (It just doesn't have the stats) 4- Luxray (The lack of physical electric attacks that are just normal attacks is real) 5- Gigalith (Literally no physical stab attacks without accuracy issues, for a pokemon thats already slow, weak to special attacks and has one of the weakest defensive typings) 6- Goodra (Possibly the least used Pseudo-Legendary in all of pokemon) 7- Golisopod (Awful ability) 8- Arctozolt (Has a great unique attacks that relies heavily on it's 55 base speed stat outspeeding things...)

[@BitchesLoveGoodra]

@@BLUEBOYISLEDGE These guys were definitely nerfed during the design phase of the game. No pokemon starts off life with Gamefreak saying "How can we make a pokemon that's awful on purpose?" besides Magikarp and it's kin. I'm guessing creating the stats, abilities and movepools are some of the last things decided on when a pokemon is made from scratch so at some point the developers nerfed these guys towards the end of their creation lol. You're right though, I should have said "Nerfed or made awful by stats, movepool, abilities or previous pokemon that came before them and just outclass them outright meaning they have no reason to exist competitively" but that felt too long and I didn't think I'd have to explain myself over it.

[@skylargray2880]

They actually made the fossils good for once

[@iantaakalla8180]

In lower tiers, Omastar and Kabutops can function nicely. In stall teams, Cradily can put in lots of work. The rest suck in whatever tier they land in. (And I do mean wherever they land in: Aurorus, for example, always gets a few weeks of being good before it sinking in usage due to it being physically frail to two types known for its physical moves. In this generation alone, it basically proved set-up strats were so overpowering in NU that they took away its only niche.)

[@ToontownAndCpenguin]

Aw dang, crazy history with it. I'm not really much on the competitive scene, I throw together teams to play with against my friends who are much more competitive than I am, I just like playing with my friends, & I started working on a hail team leading up to Crown Tundra releasing & once it released, I shiny hunted Arctozolt by collecting up the fossils & SRing, took a few days, then I used the ability patch on it. Since I'm not into competitive & there's so little way to control the IVs of something you can't breed, I of course haven't won a battle against my friends using it but I don't care about that, I just enjoy having my Slurpee around. Oh yeah, I named it Slurpee because it looks like a walking 7-11 Slurpee.

[@malachimclean3638]

Wait, I don't completely understand smogon tiers, but let me get this straight. Arctozolt was too strong in the mid tiers with Slush Rush, so they banned Snow Warning, keeping Zolt in the tier but making it less auto-destruction. Zolt fell down to lower tiers without hail support, where it kinda had a niche for players who wanted to make it work. At the same time, Slush Rush Zolt and A-Ninetales are tearing up UU so bad that Zolt gets banned? And since it's UUBL now, slow non-hail Zolt can't get used in the low tiers? I kinda understand the sentiment against complex bans, {No Slush Rush Arctozolt with a Snow Warning user} is a lot more complicated, especially as they add up in a tier. But I wish Volt Absorb Zolt could still be a low tier trick room threat. Hopefully Zolt gets to kill a lot of Landos in OU in the meantime

[@foofootoo]

Yeah it's a very strange situation! It is frustrating when one thing is making a Pokémon too strong, and banning that move or ability on that Pokémon would allow it to be used in lower tiers. But it's just smogon's approach since things could get very complicated very quickly if each Pokémon had a list of moves that were banned in lower tiers

[@Nudgarrobot]

It just seems like a terrible approach to me. "One or two mons are overperforming so we'll kill hail teams entirely" is such a bad option. It's one thing to ban evasion moves, entirely another to axe hail