Ford 390 Cylinder Head Refresh

[@GoonDriver]

Thanks for the guide! Just got a 1966 Thunderbird Q code, needs a heap of work. Might be going down this road soon.

[@BlackLabGarage]

You’re welcome! I hope your project goes smooth.

[@cefb8923]

Doing the same right now.

[@martythorpe4192]

Thanks for the Vinegar cleaning tip that did an assume job on those rusty heads. valve keeper location is good info thanks. Keep the TIPS coming!

[@BlackLabGarage]

If you can find cleaning vinegar it's stronger than regular vinegar but I haven't been able to find it in gallons around here so I just use regular vinegar. It just takes a little longer to work.

[@jesseduke694]

I restricted my C4AE-G heads just like u did yours. I believe I drilled a .094 hole in my plug. But I have a abundance of these engines. I got heads & blocks & intakes & rotating assemblies. The 390 I recently built for my 71 f100 I used a factory aluminum HP intake from a 61. And ironically it's 61 yrs old this yr & the oldest part on my truck. But it runs great!

[@BlackLabGarage]

But what heads did you use? I have a 1964 intake but I cant use it with the C7 or C8 heads because of the port difference. I had to go buy an S intake to use on mine.

[@jesseduke694]

@@BlackLabGarage c4ae-g is my heads. I know it goes against everything we have been tought but u can use that intake with your heads. Just let the mismatch port be & it will run incredibly well. I know, im crazy! Just go talk to the old racers. They will tell you.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@jesseduke694 Oh I know it will work without a doubt. Ford did that with 429/460 marine engines. Cobra jet intake manifolds on regular port heads. Horrible mismatch but they ran good. I thought the S code intakes flow better than the earlier intakes.

[@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk]

I just bought a 1976 f150 4x4 with a 390/c6. The place i bought the truck from failed to mention that the 390 needs a valve job.

[@jesseduke694]

​@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk well it is a 48 yr old vehical. One could assume it will need some kind of work.

[@MattsRageFitGarage]

Those heads looked like they were in pretty good shape for used heads. I noticed they have had guides and what looks like hardened seats put in them. Way better than any old FE I ever tore apart; guides were all sloppy and everything was junk and you wondered how it ran at all lol. I never restricted my oiling, probably should have though. Not as big of an issue with new tight rocker assemblies but as they wear, they start letting more oil bleed out of the rocker assemblies.

[@BlackLabGarage]

I have to say I got lucky on those heads. I picked up those heads, another block, a 2U 390 crank, and a set of 428 rods that had already been resized and had new bushings put in for $100! I also thought it looked like they had seats put in them also. I can't say for sure but looking at them where the seat is in the head these have a sharp edge like something cut the head for the seat to be pressed in where as my other heads it's more rounded around the seat where it's just cast.

[@MattsRageFitGarage]

@@BlackLabGarage Yeah, definitely looks like they have had hardened seats installed. I wound up buying a set of c1ae 6090a heads off a guy on ebay that was giving up on his project for like $950 to the door which was like $400 cheaper than I was quoted to have my old heads rebuilt locally by a few shops. Turns out I got a pretty good deal on them because they had everything done to them. New guides, hardened exhaust seats, all new valves, positive stem seals, resurfaced on all sealing surfaces. Haven't found anything that good of a deal since. I couldn't even find a 390 crank locally. Had to get a reground crank from survival motorsports and it was the only good one I could find.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@MattsRageFitGarage The 390 stuff is still out there but it's mostly hoarded up from what I have been seeing. What's bad is I had a good complete 390 4V engine that I traded for a good 1978 F150 short wheel base bed cause I thought to myself "I'll never need this old 390 engine. I don't have anything it will work in". Then I wound up buying the F-350 I have now two months later and needed the engine...lol.

[@MattsRageFitGarage]

@@BlackLabGarage Years ago I had a nice 352 std bore block I could have used. A really nice 390 crank and rods and sold it all because I thought I would never use it. Should have kept the stuff I could have used it all.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@MattsRageFitGarage I reckon that's how it always goes. I have the same problem lol

[@edsmachine93]

Thank you for the subscription. I really appreciate it. We can all help out each other. I line the keepers up like that also. Good job. Take care, Ed.

[@BlackLabGarage]

You're welcome! I'm glad to know that it isn't just me that lines the keepers up that way lol.

[@brianfrancis2862]

the bigger valves are they intake valves

[@BlackLabGarage]

yes

[@cefb8923]

He knows that lol. He's numbering them because they're unique to that seat.

[@paulhershberger8774]

I’m glad you’re back to the 390. I am doing my 390 at the same time, the same way. Silvolite 1130.030, Melling SYB23 with Melling timing gear set😉, so far I have the oil mods done on the block and heads and the rotating assembly is all bolted in and torqued. Getting ready to put the timing chain on. I have questions about options for timing. It seems to me a stock cam in street application I could just match the dots and go. Is that correct?

[@BlackLabGarage]

Yes that should be fine. Unless you are going to degree the cam or try to move the power band up or down by advancing or retarding the camshaft, then just go dot to dot. I'm not sure what you're putting it in but hopefully you didn't get a timing set for a 1970's truck. Ford played around with the timing sets in both FE's and 460's in the 1970's. Those timing sets retard the camshaft so it will pass emissions but it kills the power. The 460 timing set retards the cam about 8 degrees. Not sure how much on the FE's but it certainly happened. I bought my timing set for a 1968 Mustang with a 390 so I know it wouldn't have retarded timing.

[@paulhershberger8774]

I called melling and asked them what timing set fit the SYB23 and I just ordered what they said. I have only installed the cam and the rotating assembly. I have yet to install my timing chain yet. I’ll look into it. So glad to get this info now! Thank you!

[@paulhershberger8774]

Oh, and it is going in a 1974 F250. So yes, I would have told them it was a 74 so figures.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@paulhershberger8774 If you live somewhere that does emission testing then you might want to stay with the later timing set. We don't have emission testing here.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@paulhershberger8774 and hopefully you don't have the same problem I did with the SYB23 camshaft and the snout where the upper timing sprocket goes being too big!

[@brettkeeler819]

can you give me the part number for the guide seals

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@brettkeeler819 S2888-20

[@tomstulc9143]

Are not 352 360 390 all the same block an heads?

[@BlackLabGarage]

Well not exactly. The 352 would have the old tall slim port heads where as the the 360 and 390 from late 1966-1967 on had the shorter higher velocity port heads. Similar to the medium riser head. They will all physically interchange though. There was variations in the blocks also. Some were cast with reinforcement in the main webbing and others did not have it. Some 360/390 blocks were cast for 428 usage and can be bored to 428 size cylinder while other 360/390 blocks can not safely be bored that much. But once again they all physically interchange and look identical. Plus there has been 3 different size main bearings used in the FE's. I think they used the same main bearing from 1967 on if I am remembering right.

[@PaulCTownsend]

I take it the guides were good in those heads. I'm sure you've heard of keen serts I prefer those over helicoil.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@PaulCTownsend I got lucky and those heads had actually had hardened seats installed and valve guides replaced. The best part is I gave $100 for the heads, a 390 block,crank, and rods, and a T-18 transmission lol

[@PaulCTownsend]

@@BlackLabGarage You got a good deal.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@ I sure did! The rods had already been resized with new bushings installed in them. I didn’t need anything but the heads but I set all the parts back

[@INFANTRY1981]

Well. I think there is no bad FE head. Just some better than others. I dont have the chart in front of me but even the C7 (1967) or later heads known as smogs, as you know, flow quite well enough for street torque builds and trucks. I think some even call them velocity heads. Im not sure Id go that far in calling them that but they do just fine all the same. Even better going to CJ size valves as you know. Good streeter heads. Ive done the math on September 2023 COMPLETE Stage II on iron FE heads with the big valves. In the OKC (405) area $1300 - $1600 having a shop do them or about $1000 just having them do the machining, cutting. Its kinda what the application is... is where the decision is. Even doing full stage two saves BIG money (to me) contrasted to out of the box aluminums. Yada yada weight, detonation blah blah. Its a choice for sure where others say 'you might as well get alums'. I say, do what fits YOU and everybody else can go pound sand.

[@BlackLabGarage]

My understanding is that they do have a higher velocity than the older big port heads which very well may be true. I mean look at the standard 429/460 head. With the bigger valves installed they outflow the Super Cobra Jet heads with their sewage pipe sized ports..lol. As far as aluminum heads for an FE the cheapest I have found is the FloTeks and I they are $1700.00 a pair.

[@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk]

​@@BlackLabGaragei bought a 1976 f150 4x4 in april 2024. It blew smoke out the exhaust when the transporter drove it off the trailer. A shop told me it had bad vacuum due to the valves. Right now im looking to go the cheapest route. I dont know if its cheaper to have the cast iron ones fixed or go with those aluminum ones you mentioned for $1700. Whats your opinion? Ive never done heads before or replaced them.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk well machine shop prices will vary by area. Where I am by the time I would of had hardened seats installed, new valve guides, new valves, springs, have them leveled, etc…I was within $300-$400 of the cost of a new set of aluminum heads. Your area may be different and it may cost more than a new set of aluminum heads to have the heads totally redone. Sure you can buy remanufactured heads $300-$400 a piece from like Jegs and places but they do not have hardened seats installed in them. What I ended up doing was finding another set of heads that had already had hardened seats and guides installed in them. I gave $100 for the heads, a block, 390 crank, and 390 rods that had already been resized and new wrist pin bushings installed in them. That is your cheapest route usually is to find a set that has been removed that has already been redone. FE engines are notorious for the exhaust valves sinking in them because they do not have hardened seats. The D2TE heads have induction hardened seats but that’s just surface hardening. The valves sink in those heads also. I have a set of them with sunken valves myself. That’s why I’ll never recommend somebody have FE heads reworked without having hardened seats installed in them.

[@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk]

@@BlackLabGarage ok thanks. I'll check out a set of aluminum heads. And when you say you were within $300-$400 of a aluminum set you're talking about a loaded set right?

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@BillyLintzenich-wf7sk yes. Although the prices have went up some more since when I checked on them when I was building my 390, I just looked and you can get a pair of Promaxx heads fully assembled for $1796.00 right now. If it’s going to cost you $1200-$1400 to rework your original heads it just makes more sense to spend the extra and buy the new aluminum heads.

[@captainschannel9331]

😎

[@Turte_Performance_Balancing]

Nice easy job... but look´s like most US Guys clean their oily greasy parts in the driveway....

[@BlackLabGarage]

Yep...not everyone has a nice garage. There is probably more cars built in driveways and backyards than built in garages here

[@grandcrappy]

We like our time machines, yep. But man, will say new tech gives us twice the perf with the same bump in mileage.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@grandcrappy I agree it does but sometimes the cost of swapping the engine, transmission, modifying the cab and linkages, and everything else makes it not worth it and not budget friendly to me. I don’t know many newer engines that could end up getting 300hp and 13mpg in a 1974 F-350 flatbed dually loaded! Besides these newer engines don’t have that musical sound of the older engines!

[@cefb8923]

Yeah but they're generally pretty boring, or at least to me. Prefer the time machine.