Forgeworlds & Industrial Planets

The industrial revolution saw the rise of factories so big they often grew entire towns or cities around them to operate, but in the future entire planets might be used to fuel the titanic projects for conquering the stars themselves.
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Credits: Forgeworlds & Industrial Planets
Episode 416a; October 15, 2023
Written by:
Briana Brownell
Isaac Arthur
Produced & Narrated by:
Isaac Arthur
Editors:
Briana Brownell
Brian Ganley
Lukas Konecny
Graphics by:
Jarred Eagley
Jeremy Jozwik
Ken York
Legiontech Studios
Rapid Thrash
Sergio Botero
Udo Schroeter
Music Courtesy of
Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.c...
Markus Junnikkala, "Hail The Victorious Dead"
Stellardrone, "Red Giant", "Ultra Deep Field"
Sergey Cheremisinov, "Labyrinth", "Forgotten Stars"

[@Choo_Choo_Oreo]

As a Stellaris player, these worlds are very important to me.

[@nuetrino]

dream big or gtfo

[@jeffjohnson1966]

Literally playing right now and saw this video! I mean, is it fate or coincidence?

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

Especially an ecumenopolis forge world

[@WolframHeart-xp2px]

So Holy Terra, then?

[@sabiticus]

Yeah, I watch these videos while I play all the time! Even as I type this...

[@XD152awesomeness]

An examples of a city popping up around an industry are military bases. Every fort in the US is surrounded by a town that sprung up from veterans and the businesses that provide services to the base. A military installation is another kind of factory, only they produce things like soldiers and power projection. Their comparative advantage could be something as simple as a strategic location.

[@masterpython]

The reason New York and San Francisco are so gay is because anyone kicked out of the military for sodomy while deployed were dropped of there with no money to leave.

[@commiedeer]

I think that's going to be touched on in the Fortress World episode. Interesting to think about though.

[@leonardpearlman4017]

Maybe we could say they provide a "service"! Or disservice depending on your point of view. Burn up all the excess capital, keep everyone from becoming rich, according to "1984" I recall.

[@evensgrey]

And that isn't a new phenomenon, either. It was so well known to Rome that they had the word 'vicus' for such settlements. And they always form because soldiering is a young man's job, and there are certain goods and services young men want in every culture that most militaries flatly refuse to supply.

[@dansmith1661]

Democracies today are doing that with massive taxation.@@leonardpearlman4017

[@thedoruk6324]

*Mechanicus* wholeheartedly supports this episode !

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call the temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal… Even in death I serve the Omnissiah."

[@thedoruk6324]

@@xxXXRAPXXxx Ironically they did not realize if they treated their laborers and workers more nicely they indeed yield far much higher productivity. They have skill issues and need to git gud

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

@@thedoruk6324 Dude i don't care about laborers i just want to be a gundam with a cyber schlong (and ALL of the weaponry). That or cyber tentacle monster guy.

[@thedoruk6324]

@@xxXXRAPXXxx hmmm. Kinda sus. Smells de jure akin to Heresy ish. So technically need to report to an inquisitor(!)

[@spectrastar2749]

The Adeptus Mechanicus has designed this Episode Alpha Priorius for all who need to know about Forge Worlds and their history.

[@WarGiver]

Speaking as someone that plays Dyson Sphere Program (Game) and has a planet that does nothing but smelt ore, a planet just made for research and a two planets that just make basic components... this episode speaks to me.

[@ryanrobbins2363]

Isaac is slowly turning into a 40k lore channel

[@heisnotlongbutthin]

lets pray to the Omnissiah there is a issac artur & luetin09 collab in our future

[@cosmictreason2242]

Looking forward to the luetin-sfia crossover event

[@ChristiFuturum]

Warhammer 40k is the most realistic sci fi series so far in terms of scale, so that kinda explains it

[@heisnotlongbutthin]

@@ChristiFuturum Very true, then again the writers of 40k still don`t understand math und hugly underestimated what kind of numbers an empire with 1.000.000 planets can produce in terms of combat power.

[@Mate397]

@@ChristiFuturum Are we talking about the same 40k here? The numbers are all over the place and at places laughable. Some "great" battle has less of a casualty rate than our own Earth wars yet it is regarded as a massive loss of manpower... Same goes for ship sizes, they keep changing all the time, depending on the writer. 40k is the least realistic scifi out there.

[@connerchadwick5071]

*mechanicus adept appears*

[@Doochos]

praise the omnissiah

[@54032Zepol]

*Agni Parthene gets louder*

[@georgebulbakwa9017]

Hide your toasters!

[@DragonfameDracas]

*beep*

[@Yolaf_]

@@georgebulbakwa9017and dab rigs

[@charleshu1675]

It's always nice when I can listen to a combination of wh40k lore video and SFIA

[@mtpender69]

[Holy chanting, application of sacred oils and incense burning intensifies]

[@54032Zepol]

*Agni Parthene gets louder*

[@BurnDoubt]

That sounds like flipping the "ON" switch with extra steps.

[@mtpender69]

@@BurnDoubt Do you mean the most holy "Rune of Activation"?

[@BurnDoubt]

@@mtpender69 come to think of it, the symbol for Phyrexia looks a lot like the power button on most devices, only with a Complete line through a circle instead of just a partial line through the top of the circle. 🤔 I guess if I thought of it as some sort of magical glyph... Mayhaps I've judged too quickly. Matter of fact, I would like to know more, go ahead and leave me one of them pamphlets you got there and then get tf off of my porch, you're terrifying the children. And whatever that sludge is dripping out of you, it better clean up easily!

[@harbl99]

* smites machine repeatedly with holy wrench * Get activated! Get activated! Get activated! Get activated!

[@Kaget0ra]

In a future where robots, AI, and automation are commonplace, perhaps the households of ultra-wealthy elites will be characterized by how much of that they are able to replace with humans instead.

[@michaellee6489]

THAT is a brilliant twist, brother!

[@gus2603]

Is not a twist, displays of wealth were always like that.

[@Wolksvagen-nr1lb]

Basically that was what happened with Imperial high nobles in the novel Legend of Galactic Heroes. House chores are easily done by robots, so the rich aristocrats employ human servants to flex instead.

[@Kaget0ra]

@@Wolksvagen-nr1lb Interesting. Is it also a good book? I think I'd like to start reading fiction again. The last time was To Sleep in a Sea of Stars a couple of years ago, but before that I'd say probably Infinite Jest like 22 years ago! I'd never really considered it until just now, but I wonder if it was Infinite Jest that put me off reading fiction hehe. I'm always paranoid about revisiting the books I really loved as a teen/pre-teen. On the one hand they might be every bit as good as I remember and enhance the memories of both readings (Ender's Game is probably one of these, though I'm still viewing it through a >20 year filter). This is kind of rewarding, but the other possibility is that my vivid memory (my brain tends to render things I read into something like a film adaptation during memory post-processing) of some great book turns out to be a heap of steaming garbage that corrupts the good memory and probably causes me to briefly cast an overly harsh judgement at my younger self.

[@Kaget0ra]

@@Wolksvagen-nr1lb This is related in only the flimsiest of ways, but I read this book when I was a kid and I've never been able to remember what it was called or who wrote it. I'm not convinced I've got the set up right, but it's probably pretty close. A pair of twin boys must move in to a new house that the family has just inherited from an uncle or something. They discover a shed in which time passes much more quickly on the property. One of the twins hatches a plan to age himself a year by spending the night in the shed, which he does. A long lonely year. I know I could look it up easy enough so if it doesn't ring a bell don't bother looking it up for me please. I know that one day I'll ask the right person :) Final thought: The elites that occupy the very highest of the tiers will not even have books in their homes. To duplicate the functionality of, say, Wikipedia, they'll have entire stables of dedicated rote learners. There will be a high demand for both people with eidetic memory and people with a suitable temperament to spend all day every day reciting to themselves to keep the volume in their heads in good shape.

[@hughmungusbungusfungus4618]

Imagine a great planet factory, with billions of workers, millions of managers and huge space-based infrastructure. All for the production of... Halloween decorations

[@issacrice4025]

With the rest of the system dedicated to Christmas decorations

[@Roxor128]

Ah, millions of managers, the mark of a true dystopia!

[@captsorghum]

Union or non-union shop?

[@hughmungusbungusfungus4618]

@@captsorghum Multiple unions fight a low-key guerilla war to see which will be the monopoly

[@captsorghum]

@@hughmungusbungusfungus4618 Why low-key?

[@domehammer]

I thought of another type of world, a rural or breeder world. Where the society is kept with certain pressures applied to facilitate huge families. Those wanting to make it big leave the world looking for a better life. Like how cities early in industrial revolution have unsustainable populations so needed the constant influx of new people from rural parts of a country.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Cloning tanks is an option too :) But yes I could imagine worlds pre-loaded to produce certain family structures/types.

[@Obiwan7100]

Certified Omnissiah moment.

[@smoore6461]

I'm been very excited for this video and agriworld coming up. I'm a big 40k fan, and I love it when Issac gives us a window into the 40k world and then tells us, " fun, but this is likely how it will actually be!" These are some of my favorite SFIA videos, though all SFIA videos are awesome! Colonizing Titan is still an all-time favorite for me as well. Great video, sir! I always look forward to a sci-fi Sunday

[@tickticktickBOOOOM]

My problem with WH40K is its naïve optimism about the future. We're headed to a post-content world, forget about a post-scarcity one. (That's content as in the emotion, not what streaming services crap out.)

[@manw3bttcks]

@@tickticktickBOOOOM Huh?, WH40K is the complete opposite of naive optimism. WH40K is all about the universe constantly getting worse with time (grim dark future where there is only war, the emperor physically dead and on life support in the Golden Throne to keep his psychic side alive)

[@akiranara6404]

​@@tickticktickBOOOOMDude, 40K is, like, the absolute least optimistic sci-fi setting in _existence._ I get the feeling you've either neither heard of it before, or you're straight-up trolling.

[@tickticktickBOOOOM]

@@manw3bttcks Most people haven't been turned into servitors, and I think that's where we're heading. Better to be part of a cannibalistic underhive gang.

[@gus2603]

Humanity survives for 40k years. 40k is not optimistic. Pick one bro.

[@PacesIII]

I always found it funny how TV shows like Star Trek or movies like Star wars had planets that were so one-dimensional. One planet with one type of people dedicated specifically to one thing.

[@apotheases]

The Borg seem to the the only race that will transform their planets into whole industrial processing plants.

[@DS-tv2fi]

It’s a holdover of westerns. Your protagonist goes to an old mining town, there’s a problem, a shootout with some outlaws happens, and they move on to the next town.

[@PacesIII]

@@DS-tv2fi But in the Sci-Fi movies there were no other towns or villages. If there was one they were always at odds with the one they landed at. Stargate Atlantis explored a little bit beyond the area where they landed because eventually they wanted to see what was "over there." Just always was one village for the entire planet or one indigenous population for the entire planet. I understand they did it for writing purposes but it left a lot of complexity and context that could have been used for the story out of the story.

[@harbl99]

One horse town planets.

[@mpetersen6]

Jerry Pournelle had a line about this. "It was raining on Mongo"

[@HP3.14]

10:47 Zucchini recipe: Slice the zucchini and marinate them in salt, pepper, garlic powder and canola oil After half an hour, discard the liquid formed at the bottom of the bowl! , turn the slices first in wheat flour then in beaten egg. Turn them in breadcrumbs and fry them in canola oil. It is recommended that you eat them warm.

[@dansmith1661]

No bananas?

[@captainalex157]

mmmhm

[@captsorghum]

You can control production by harvesting some while still thumb-thickness / 5" long. Split lengthwise, blot dry, coat the split side with olive oil and dust with salt, pepper, and oregano, then broil split side up for 20 min or so.

[@reporeport]

you are a once in a once-in-a-generation treasure Mr Arthur

[@robobird3383]

You know, all of these videos referencing Warhammer 40,000, it all makes me want to see some sort of reimagining of the universe in a hard sci-fi setting. Most other factions (especially Chaos) would have to be reworked extremely heavily in order to fit though.

[@Betrix5060]

Extragalactic Sanctuaries wasn't far from that. God Emperor Kettle and his Great Crusade could've eventually encountered Xenos on its quest to unify all of mankind, and might've clashed with them. Of course that would be some freaky inter-supercluster conflict which, relative to the main civilization, is a minor border skirmish nobody really noticed. Of course there clearly wasn't anything like the Horus Heresy to end that "golden age", so maybe an alternate version where the Great Crusade is cut short by a civil war after only a few million stars. How you handle the Xenos and Chaos factions I'm not sure though. Some like the Tau you could just make human client species that turned feral before developing their own parallel civilization, but the Eldar, Necrons, C'Tan, and Chaos are defined by their ancient and pre-human history so it would be hard to justify them not already owning all of Human space, or having Humanity boxed in.

[@robobird3383]

As to the Xenos, I'd figure getting rid of the humanoid designs would work for most. Maybe keep some core design tenants of the canon versions and then go nuts. I think the Eldar might actually be better served as a human mutant race (like the squats). Perhaps they could be the descendents of early space colonists? That way they could keep their ancient race status. The Necrons could simply be an organic xenos race that digitized their minds. Perhaps they might be given more specialized designs based upon what tasks they are performing at the time. Chaos? I dunno... I'll think of something. I think Tyrannids could be redone as being similar to the Bugs from Starship Troopers (the novel version at least.) The obsessive use of bio-tech gets a bit too preposterous for my taste (Granted, 40,000 is a setting based upon preposterousness). The Orks need no changes. They are fine just how they are.

[@69Kazeshini]

​@@robobird3383tyrannids can also be a random terraforming experiment gone wrong. I remember at least two episodes of isaac arthur talking about void ecology and space whales, where he mentioned the idea of growing your habitats, ships and infrastructure in space was a tempting idea instead of building it yourself. Life evolving in space is unlikely but designing one to might be more plausible. Isaac also stated that if you want to prevent mutations you make specialized units and give them dumb A.I. but obviously your gonna have to make it in such away that they do mutate and turn into a berseker swarm that eats biomass instead of producing it. Me personally i would probably do away with all xenos and just make everyone some type of descendent of earth (genetically altered human, transhuman cyborg, a.i., posthuman, technoorganic life built from scratch, mutants, uplifted animal that is heavily altered to the point that they are unrecognizable from what they came from). This explains away on why they haven't dominated the milky way galaxy.

[@ornu01]

For when you don't need a planet, you need a battlefleet. And tractors. Lots of tractors.

[@mill2712]

On a similar subject, I've always seen in sci-fi that strip mined worlds after all the "useful resources" were mined out are usually left desolate, apocalypticly polluted, and their inhabitants (Colonist or natives) abandoned and forgotten by the civilization at large. My question is after all is said and done, what could and should some organization do with that planet now?

[@jsbrads1]

Paul Bunyan it. Seeds plus time.

[@Celestial_Reach]

Forget about em? Seems to be humanity's method

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Depends on a lot of factors. Major ones are; are their any resources left? (i.e. is there a planet left? Or did we literally dismantle the entire planet for everything?) Is this location on a major route for further expansion? Is this location strategic for some reason? (This doesn't have to be militarily, it could be a central location for other worlds/ minor systems colonization, resource gathering from smaller operations in surrounding worlds/ minor systems using the infrastructure already built here, or for distribution of manufactured goods to nearby systems still being built or just starting.) Has it grown into a major population center and now it's culture can be a commodity in itself? These questions must be answered before we can state with any chance of being correct what would happen to the world.

[@AnonymousAnarchist2]

That depends entrely. Typically these worlds are part of larger allegories for various 'isms, capitalism, consumerism, colonialism, statism, nationalism etc, with these worlds acting as the unseen costs of these things. In those cases nothing would have been built for any manner of lasting, everything useful built to a cost intended to last just long enough to get the job done. And everything militant and controling built to last for eaons, to keep people in, and to spread ideologies that isolate them while making them feel superior. In those cases, what can be done is, greenify and matter to energy conversion for power and you cannot expect much from the population until they get sick and tired of being always behind. If we look realistically at it though, going to space, traveling the stars makes many such -isms impractical if not impossible to continue, but opens various windows for new isms that might even be grounded in tanagable and real things unlike our current isms. So we can imagine a barren world being mined out, becoming habitable, green life growing only for the speices's to devate and change entirely and tension to build between the spacers via thier automated collection systems who dont respect the soverinty of the new Forgeborn species causing war, exctraction, and resets in cycles until some sort of peace arrives, possibly through the orginonal spacers coming untold milliena later shocked and horrified by the wasted resources and lack of infastructure built. ... I spent too long coming up with plausable circumstances 😅. But in such a more realistic setting the machinery left behind would be increadably valuable on its own right, and a manufacturing heaven could, abd should boom.

[@mnrvaprjct]

Turn the mined out husks into beautiful megastructures that serve as testaments to that civilizations mastery of industry and the arts. Hopefully, to be inhabited later.

[@saikiranreddy3558]

Worker: But sir, the working hours at the factory are excessively long. Factory owner: It constitutes merely 1% of the day on this planet . . .

[@dansmith1661]

You get 200 hours of sleep allotted per cycle. Make better use of it.

[@allawa]

this is very cool reminds me of the 40k forge worlds

[@paulwolfley7785]

Nice seeing 40K getting some love

[@barryon8706]

I can't escape the image of an astronaut planting a flag on a hollowed-out world and hearing a tremendous "Psssshhhhhhhhhhhh...."

[@beardyben7848]

😂😂😂

[@obrasilius6733]

From the Moment I Understood the Weakness of My Flesh...

[@grandotaku2501]

you sir, are a man of culture kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaquaJ-OadieZsU

[@beardyben7848]

I love that you have sensible engineering viewpoints on all these radically strange or challenging circumstances. It somehow gives me a deep sense of peace.

[@pro126]

Hi Isaac don't forget the rules of War

[@BurnDoubt]

That's the first rule of warfare.

[@nadyamikhailova7527]

In 40k AI caused some trouble in the past therefore sophisticated robots and AI are banned. Like there was their own Skynet of some sort. The demands of any empire in 40k are insanely high and ppl need resources, weaponary etc. so they need to enhance themselves. Sure this way of living forces you to appreciate cybernetic limbs. However, it is not the primary reason. In 40k where advanced robots are banned people are practically turned into robots. These servitors you mentioned, they are essencially a loophole in the rule. Like, flying skulls with circutcuts but no brains or organic matter(may be wrong on that particular one) are not robots lol. I mean they act like robots but they are not. In summary, AI/robots-banned, but we need them therefore lets turn humans into the closest things to robots. They can make a lot of manual labor being performed by bots, they choose not to out of fear of AI uprising

[@Jamhael1]

Close - the servitors (that is how the "labor bots" are called) are lobotomized clones (clones have no rights in the Imperium) enhanced with technology and even part of its cognizance exchanged with computer parts to make them more compliant. These are also made of criminals. The servo-skulls, however, are a different thing: these are loyal servants that received the privilege of continuing their service by having their craniums repurposed after death. The Tech-priests, however, make cybernetic enhancememts on purpose because they believe that their purpose is to come close to the "purity of the machine", with each enhancement being a religious step in their "enlightment".

[@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec]

Well in Warhammer 40k there are also paradise worlds. But those are just for the nobles.

[@vi6ddarkking]

An interesting scenario I find myself in contantly is when, I play Stellaris with the Gigastructural Engiring mod. I tend to spam my forge Ecumenopolis with nothing but robots. Plus a few pops of organics in ruler jobs. Honestly that seems like the most realistic option for a forge world. Despite the fact I find a moon sized space station to be a better " Forge World" if your objective is just utterly ridiculous amounts of industrial capacity. Since it can move to were the raw resources and or energy sources are. And doesn't need to worry about waste, since it can vent it into space, if recycling it isn't an option for some reason.

[@Delmworks]

Yeah that was my thought too TBH- if there is a spacefaring civilization I figure that livable space would be too precious to waste on forges unless the minerals are super valuable

[@codemonster8443]

Yeah forge planets... I think a fundamental problem with such world building is that people assume that since in our contemporary world we have entire cities build around manufacturing, such will be the case in a scifi world but now with whole planets! I think that's bad world building because : a) Industrial process always produce enormous waste. This waste needs to go somewhere. You do not wanna be manufacturing for a galaxy and store the waste on your home world. b) It's acutally stupid to manufacture on a planet simply because you would need to first bring resources from mining comets to the planet, then send them back out of the orbit into space. I think it would work like this : forge system. 1. Habitable planet is a giant farmland and residence. Heaven by earth's standards. Main job is food production and bureaucracy. 2. Asteroid belts and comments are mines. Operations handed by something of a miner's guilds. Mining and self sustenance manufacturing 3. At the edge if the system, there is a large manufacturing installation. Like hundreds or even thousands of space stations, each one of them a 30km long and wide facility floating in space. Here, they manufacture everything from Self care tools to space cruisers. And this was my model of how I think manufacturing units of a galactic wide civilization will be structured.

[@OldTexasRed]

Who wouldn't love some more wh40k influenced/directed content? Most lore channels just focus on the lore, of course, but I think it'd be cool if Isaac looked deeper into the world from his unique perspective.

[@michaelmazzen]

I was half expecting the voise of Richard Attenborough when i clicked on the title .....

[@gabrielleonardoacosta]

The Omnisiah is pleased with your labour Isaac Arthur

[@lahavmorris9919]

This gives me warhamer 40k vibes

[@TheArtofFugue]

I’ve recently got into the lore when I’m studying. It’s some of the most in depth and serious lore I’ve encountered. I mean, 2 hr long lore videos about anything in 40k. It’s great, too much lore for me to ever go through entirely.

[@TS-jm7jm]

​@@TheArtofFuguelol, 2hrs and technically that is typically still only a summary.

[@lahavmorris9919]

@@TS-jm7jm 40K has litteral libarys worth of lore

[@NikolaiManning]

So, on these forge worlds, could they have a secondary export of the waste heat the industry generates? Somehow turning that heat into some kind of battery that is either used in the industry itself or sell it off to a less warm location.

[@MarlinMay]

Very, very interesting! One tenant of circular economies is that one person's waste product is someone else's raw materials. Pollution is a waste of resources, even waste heat pollution. Figure out how to sell your waste heat would be like printing money.

[@balazsvarga1823]

Praise the Omnissiah. Another good thing about Forge Worlds being radioactive hellscapes is, for most organic enemies the environment is well, extremely toxic. This makes Forge Worlds harder to invade and acts as an additional layer of defense.

[@SpottedHares]

The DeathStar factory we see in Andor seems like it would be a lot closer to a real industrial lifestyle hell.

[@ericpowell96]

Working sunup to sundown doesn't mean working someone to death. That's how it was for most of human history, i think it's pretty realistic to see that in a future dystopia high on industry. Happy Sci-fi Sunday, you and everyone reading this rock, and dystopian work days aside, you still earned that drink and snack that you're munching on while reading this 😊

[@FidoZip1988]

Have You done any video about Resort Worlds or Prision Worlds?

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Yep, prison planets is in the episode space prison colonies from a few years back

[@FidoZip1988]

@@isaacarthurSFIA I Will look it up, thank You, keep the good work

[@malcolmc.7288]

Don't forget the fact the tech-priest don't you invent or share it with each other either

[@cannonfodder4376]

A magnificent Sci-Fi Sunday episode that I am sure my Warhammer enjoying friends will enjoy when I share this with them. Fantastic work Isaac. Always challanging our views of the future and what Sci-Fi portrays. The future is always bigger that most perceive.

[@aceundead4750]

My favorite forge world is also my least favorite, the forges of New Phyrexia are a fascinating place, but you run the risk of compleation whether purposeful or accidental. If you have a smoker tossing some salty and umami seasonings onto zucchini, or really anything, then using some maple or apple or cherry chips will make it taste great.

[@BurnDoubt]

Olde Phyrexia proper will always be my favorite. The artificial flowstone plane of Rath was pretty cool too, but the novels weren't nearly as good at that point. Yawgmoth Completes.

[@clmdcc]

I kind of imagine a forge world building rotaing habitats, but in times of war these are bigger fitting engines or space tugs, and are used as weapons platforms to support the war.

[@commiedeer]

Interesting video though please don't give the Warhammer 40k fandom a bigger head then they already have. Or more accurately, another reason to hold to justify their toxic relationship to Games Workshop like an abused spouse convinced that they deserve the beatings. I mean yes, your arguments about scale make sense. More sense then I would have expected given that 40k is a setting where you achieve FTL by diving headlong into Hell. But I digress, I like how you shoot down the idea of cyberpunk dystopias being grimy and gritty simply for the sake of being grimy and gritty and with no real thought as to what all that industrial output is actually being used for. That the big difference between old school cyberpunks and the new school, the old school at least tried to come up with a halfway decent motive for the villains. The new school in particular.... you put it much more politely then I would. And of course, another thought-provoking video that in exploring how and why it would be practical to have a single planet devoted to industry as you make us consider details that generally aren't normally considered. Timely too as I'm writing the last novel in a trilogy about space merchants and it explores the idea of an industrial planet "deindustrializing" and what would make the locals consider it.

[@timothy8428]

5:33 Isaac accidentally describes 2023.

[@dariansookdeo1345]

I can hear the Warhammer 40k fans running rn

[@rujoiu]

Loving every single episodes❤

[@DelaurentisDavis-ti4zc]

Your not the only one !!!!

[@tomfoolery1123]

Two seconds into the vid and after hearing "The industrial revolution" my mind instantly said "and its consequences have been a disaster"... Been reading too much of ole Uncle Ted I guess...

[@123FireSnake]

soooo, what did you learn about zucchini? I usually just end up throwing it into a tomato sauce or a gratin as filler :D That aside, though i really like the fantasy of a forge world realistically speaking you'd probably end up with forge stations in some orbit for all the manufacturing benefits in micro gravity and easy access to all the asteroids with their precious metals so you don't have to deal with the gravity well all the time. Moreover highly polluted air is actually kind of annoying to deal with if you're manufacturing high tech stuff which we're more likely to be doing than building giant city stomping war mechs from arcane technology with a literal soul that needs appeasing :D

[@mostimbawarri]

The Lord of Mars is with us in the dark, even if thou knowest it not. The Omnissiah directs our footsteps along the path of knowledge.

[@Socrates3001]

@isaacarthurSFIA This is an aside to your video. If you have a bumper crop from your garden, consider pickling some of the crop. This will allow you to enjoy the products of the garden all year. There are plenty of recopies online.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

My wife pickled a bunch last year but I think wanted to minimize the canning and pickling this year, the kids aren't quite ready to help with that yet, though they love the gardening

[@BurnDoubt]

All are imperfect in the eyes of Yawgmoth, Lord of Phyrexia. The flesh is weak but there is salvation. Phyrexia brings salvation. Salvation is through Completion. Completion is Perfection. Praise Yawgmoth, great father of machines. Phyrexia Completes.

[@Comicsluvr]

Something that I always point out in stories where one faction is enslaving or otherwise controlling another for labor is that it would be easier to just treat the workers fairly and NOT have to worry about brutal guards, armed robots, or whatever. Spending money watching people work is a drain on profits. There has probably been a study done that analyzes where the line is between grumbling workers who aren't treated very well and rebellious workers who smash their overlords. The trick is to stay on the good side of that line. This is something that has always confused me about the rich and powerful. How can they be so stupid? In the recent Writer's Strike in Hollywood, the writers were asking for concessions that amounted, at their MOST demanding, less than 1% off the bottom line for the studios they worked for. If they had presented their grievances and the studios had simply given in, they could have saved millions in lost revenue and bad press. 1% seems like a small price to pay for happy workers who will be more productive and generate more good press for the company. It's like the line from Total Recall: 'What are the workers asking for?' 'Oh, the usual...more pay, more food, more air.'

[@cosmictreason2242]

And yet, the absolute numbers of what they were asking for was crazy stuff, like $8,000/wk for a writer iirc

[@akiranara6404]

​@@cosmictreason2242If I had to guess, they had absolutely no expectation of _getting_ that much money, and were just using it as their opening position which could be negotiated. And that's assuming your numbers are accurate. Also, if $8,000/wk is less than 1% of the studio's profits...

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@akiranara6404 theyre are many more than 100 categories of people involved in a production, and all of the costs are not payroll

[@akiranara6404]

@@cosmictreason2242 You seem to have confused revenue for profit. Revenue is raw income; profit is revenue minus expenses. In other words, if 1% of the studio's _profit_ is $8,000/week, that's money that can be spared for the writers, because it's not being spent anywhere else. (Yes, it means the studio is making less money, but at some point you gotta acknowledge the need to pay your workers.) Also, you seemed to have ignored the part where I said that was the writers' _opening position._ That means that they had no real expectation of that being the final deal, it was just their starting point. This happens all the time in negotiations. The big problem here was that Hollywood decided they'd rather starve the unions out than actually make a deal.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@akiranara6404 i am not confusing it. Without setting profit aside to pay for production of future films, no one gets paid after the last movie

[@xBINARYGODx]

Some of your arguments about these dystopian are strange given what is true of humanity right now.

[@asvarien]

The marketing department of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporations: "A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes."

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

SHARE AND ENJOY! :)

[@Sol-from-the-solar-system]

Anyone who says first is no longer first.

[@mudgetheexpendable]

Chocolate zucchini bread! Freezes a treat, and toasted post-freeze is *chef's kiss*

[@Pacbandit13]

This is what starfield is missing scale and the darker aspects of industry.

[@mnrvaprjct]

I have a moon in my star system that’s extraordinarily rich in materials after being peppered with various supernovae over the eons. That moon serves as my settings forge world! (It’s where my take on GSVs, ROUs and small habitats are constructed)

[@ScamallDorcha]

I have always wanted us to turn Luna into a forge world. If for no other reason than to keep Terra as pollution-free as possible.

[@DragonfameDracas]

As the member of the Cult on duty in the area, I must express my disappointment in citizen Isaac's interpretation of the Cult's tenants and actions, frequently misinterpreting our actions and being completely wrong in some goals. However I find his knowledge of logistics and ideas for industrial byproducts to be employed. Especially his idea for a green 'agri-hive' built atop an industrial forge on a colder world. His sins of theorizing uses for fully automated systems shall be overlooked as long as he continues to recieve visions of unique ways to employ STC designs.

[@prometheuszero9]

If a K2 civilization has successfully built a Dyson swarm with all or almost all the mass in their system besides the star, what resources would they be using to run factories and produce things? It would seem at that point that expansion is not would be necessary. I assume they would anticipate that sort of thing though and perhaps they might move all their factory facilities to the "edge" of the system so they were closer to the next system they expanded into. Or perhaps they might create a laser highway of factories running from the core of the system out to the edge and beyond. There could also be some interesting and massive scale scrapping and recycling going on in sucn a civilization. I guess those could be be potential topics for future videos 😁

[@jaydee1024]

Next in the Great Filter series: "Zucchini Maximizer" or "Zucchini flavored Roku's Basilisk, Are We Selectively Breeding Our Own Plant Overlords?" I should probably get some sleep..

[@janemf]

Where is Luetin09 who is this Isaac person

[@magnuszerum9177]

So I need a manufacturing space station that is so dystopian looking on the outside that a Borg cube looks positively avantgarde, but the habitat portion is internally Solar Punk.

[@samsmith9764]

>300 comments late. A good zucchini recipe i made up/ stole is: Slice zucchini to 1cm / ~1/2 inch slices. Coat in thin (or thick) layer of hot sauce or normal sauce if you are weak. Season with salt pepper Grill on the BBQ on high heat until crispy. None of this 'cook til done' BS, kick shit outta it until its a zucchini-shaped piece of charcoal, that's where the flavour is Eat while hot, is quite nice for lunch the next day. We had a zucchiniapocalypse one year, so this reciepe helped us through like half the stupidly large crop With the rest, simply coarsely grated using teh food processor, and bagged into like 4 servings per bag and froze. This makes for a real good vege soup base, and is the lowest effort, as you can use it when other veges come ready in your garden

[@ImPickleTwitch]

As a kid I used to play this game series "Ratchet and Clank", and in the 2nd game for the PS2 (Ratchet and Clank going commando) there was no main villain, instead a giant corporation called Megacorp, that was running the entire galaxy. It was organizing and openly broadcasting gladiator death arenas to, deadly hoverbike rases, genocide on entire planets, automated surveillance for slaves, unethical experiments and so on.... I don't remember all of it.

[@kalliste23]

The comic "2000 AD" in its "Judge Dredd" series had chronic unemployment in the Megacity resulting in people being employed as shop window dummies. If enough people are unemployed they will be cheaper than robots, absent some kind of government regulation and/or largesse. Where I live, the Philippines, the malls still have people sitting in the elevators all day pushing the buttons for you, and in the gas stations people to fill your tank, because the Philippines is overpopulated and labour is so cheap. In other countries - largely thanks to government regulations - it's cheaper to let people push their own buttons and fill their own gas tanks. Since the industrial revolution and mass production it's never been about technology, it's been about economics and political power.

[@defies4626]

bluntly, I find your optimism in this case rather baffling. Mostly because RL is chock full of examples which live down to the dystopian cliches right now. Even in the face of 'if you do this more humanely and equitably, you'll make more money in the long run'. And the answer is always 'but it would cost me money now, so I don't want to'. It's a popular trope not because it's a good setting, but because humanity keeps living down to it in the long run.

[@aliboy357]

I'd note that you use Mechanicus and Mechanicum interchangeably when lore-wise they are not interchangeable. The Mechanicum was the pre-heresy independent state that split to become the Adeptus Mechanicus of modern 40K and the Dark Mechanicum. The Mechanicus refers to the modern Adeptus Mechanicus which subordinated itself to the Imperium following the Horus Heresy and is no longer an independent state but does retain a significant degree of autonomy.

[@ASpaceOstrich]

As far as I'm aware, the Mechanicus is practically an independent ally of the Imperium of Man rather than a subordinate. Mechanicus Forge Worlds operate similarly to Imperial worlds in terms of the feudal system, but are explicitly loyal to the next stage in the Mechanicus chain of leadership, not the broader Imperium. Likewise the Imperium has no real authority over Mechanicus worlds. They have their own military. Its possible they even view the Imperium as subordinate to them, the balance of power between the two is certainly quite one sided. If it weren't for the fact that a decent number of them actually do believe the Emperor is an avatar of the Omnissiah instead of just pretending they do, I can't imagine that alliance would still be in effect given how little the Mechanicus seems to get out of the deal. A buffer against enemies they don't want to deal with, and extra sets of eyes and ears in their search for lost technology I suppose.

[@aliboy357]

@@ASpaceOstrich Not quite, the Mechanicus is a semi-independent Adeptus of the Imperium, much like the Astartes. You are correct in that they are largely outside the normal chain of command with their own military, but a Lord General of the Guard can technically issue orders or Admech Skitarii as a Lord Admiral can issue orders to Mechanicus vessels, though, it's very hard to get a recalcitrant Magos told off for ignoring orders unless things go badly wrong. Their independence has a price tag attached. Hell, the Militarum and the Astartes both have the right to head for a forge world and start an investigation with authority for punitive action in the event said forge world is consistently failing to fulfil its obligations for providing supplies and equipment to either body. Presumably the Navy has similar powers. Not to mention that the Inquisition maintains its considerable powers even when dealing with the Mechanicus. As for what the Admech gains? A reason to run the sacred manufactories, the ability to create and distribute more sacred servitors, a larger recruitment base for more priests, the opportunity to send their priests out to minister to even more sacred machines, resources for the forges, fantastic wealth, a guarantee of a sort of independence that may not of existed had they been brought in rather than voluntarily submitting themselves to the Imperium.

[@robertheinrich2994]

maybe pluto and his dwarf planet friends will be the industrial powerhouses? low gravity, but still some gravity (there are lots of chemical processes such as destillation that require some amount of gravity or centripetal force) but low gravity allows easy exports. furthermore, earth receives more than a gigawat per square kilometer (less if it is closer to the poles), pluto receives almost nothing. therefor it can use a gigawatt per square kilometer to be just nice, and easily ejects that amount of power continuously. of course, if they use mining, at some point, the dwarf planet is just eaten away. but that might take some time. regarding production, just consider this: producing a chair or a microwave? fairly simple and it makes some sense to minimize transport ways (because it is complicated). so I don't believe in a hairbrush production planet, when there are 3d printers even now that can make them fairly easily. but there is taiwan, which is currently the leader in microchip production. we now invest a lot of money into spreading that to other places so we aren't dependent on just one factory. but in the early stages of spaceflight, a microchip with less than a micrometer of structure resolution might not be economically producable. sure, you can do a lot of things with a computer that has the power of an 8086 CPU, and it is certainly enough to produce a spaceship that flies from one planet to the next (apollo used far less), but we might want to have better stuff (let's say, pentium and more, AMDs athlon X64 used a 130nm process in the beginning, and it was fast, if it was used with the right software). these forgeworlds might have some impressive technology to produce microchips, quantum computers or whatever, but there will be local commodities, where interplanetary or even interstellar transport is just not feasable.

[@informatikabos5481]

I like Isaac's optimism, but I think in this case its unwarranted. A great counter-example of why cyberpunk is plausible is Apple. Its a company with insane profit margins and generally high prices while producing in well-documented labour practices which are virtually the same to victorian factory exploitation. Combined with blatant environmental pollution and design decisions that are mainly focused on sucking the customers ever deeper into the Apple ecosystem ... it is already a multinational company that Gibson could have come up with, and its by far not the only one. There is no real incentive for Apple to do all these negative actions. The closest thing the company has to an incentive is shareholder profits. But that only works because the shareholders (and customers) are so far alienated from the negative impacts, that they couldn't make the connection to Apple even if it starts to affect them. Alienation of that kind is a common trope in Cyberpunk literature too. Now imagine the level of alienation if the whole exploitation happens on another planet.

[@PhantomPhoton]

Isaac, I love your channel and your work, but next time you feel the compulsion to argue that Games Workshop is turning out scenarios more plausible that William Gibson, you might want to reassess your premises. Cyberpunk depicts corporations treating people like resources because it successfully predicted the modern era of corporations treating people like resources....

[@aserta]

Dunno much about zucchini recipes... but airfried zucchini in panko is... something special (was in my recipe book).

[@timeisner5099]

KZbin started blocking my adblocker, so I am flipping over to Nebula on your link. Goodbye forever KZbin!

[@Grim-Crusader]

Maybe a video about servitors or the ethics of biomedical slavery in the future???

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

it'd probably be a short video, isaac doesn't seem like the type to rationalize slavery as anything other than a human rights violation

[@Grim-Crusader]

True but ethics change, in the 40k verse, prisoners are turned into mindless cyborg slaves as their legal punishment, I could see it being rationalized by future generations generations 😢😢😢

[@TerminalLucidity-uz6sl]

Will you ever do a video on the Fluid Dynamics of the liquid masses of O'Neil cylinders and other space colonies?

[@ramonpizarro]

Shhhh you'll make the engineers here and us math nerds cry with PTSD over that part in the textbooks

[@spacejunk2186]

Just reading this makes my skin crawl. Awesome idea.

[@JasoTheRed48F2]

*Puts on red robe* *Queues up Children of the Omnissiah* Lets do this.

[@pro126]

PS. say hello to your wife she is lovely 😅

[@ramuk1933]

Ah, the industry leader in left-handed non-commercial electron microscopes decorated to resemble ants.

[@logex621]

Greetings will have to watch this one later but looking forward to it.

[@billlyell8322]

Have you addressed the data of James web disproving the big bang???*

[@Aluttuh]

Imagine an entire planet worth of people working together for one common goal. wont happen willingly.

[@astrolightsadventures4677]

Praise the omnissiah!

[@sarcasmo57]

I want to live on the planet that makes milkshakes.

[@treystephens6166]

Star Wars used to have stuff like this … Before Disney bought it …

[@vladimirmihnev9702]

Must make toasters, to keep up with the demand for toaster fucking day 😂

[@madj.7379]

Be vewwy vewwy quiert. I'm huanting heawatics...

[@tickticktickBOOOOM]

For my sins, I've worked the Upper East Side for years, and I can assure you a significant chunk of our self-appointed lords and masters are full of malice and evil. Plenty of incompetence, too, for that matter. It's not enough for them to be rich and powerful, everyone else has to be dirt poor and at their non-existent mercy. Most appear to be incapable of being happy, and making everyone else more miserable than they are is the closest they can get. They're even worse when they adopt the Green religion, which is the only religion they take seriously (aside from a certain other some of them still hold to). The moderates among them want to exterminate most of the population and only leave enough alive to keep them in the lifestyle they're accustomed to. The extremists want to wipe out humanity altogether, themselves included. Strangely enough, those latter never seem to lead by example. As for dystopias, you better start believing in them: you're in one, at least if you're in a city. Go back in time to say, 1960, show average people what the world is like now, and try convincing them this isn't a dystopian nightmare.

[@michaellee6489]

I just watched Fermi Paradox: Galactic Habitable.Zones and at the end was an ad for Raycon earbuds, featuring the story about your ear infection. While that caught my attention because I suffer the same thing, I couldn't help but notice that Mr. Arthur, you do indeed possess a Noble facial profile. Thank You for all your hard work, Sir.

[@casualgoats]

So you know how there are planeys that do not spin? I always thought it would be an interesting concept where the side always facing thr sun became a huge solar array, and the night time side became a massive metropolis or factory/industrial city powered by the opposite side.

[@gabrote42]

What a marvellous episode. I love it. I am still 4 years bejind but this is a nice look forward

[@dansmith1661]

Imagine having these planets making stuff just so a few locations benefit, because the distance between habitable locations is so massive it takes years to deliver and by then they are obsolete. You would then need more forge worlds just to stay current throughout the empire.

[@rajukoley9249]

2nd

[@pharmasophia01]

He Isaac broer , how is Elon Musk on twitter my broer

[@ambika69]

24:00 that would NOT be a breathable atmosphere, lol. Having too much more oxygen that we have here on earth causes fires to spiral out of control FAST, and an 80 or 90% oxy atomphere could potentially detonate every time a cigarette was lit; never mind a ship setting down.

[@virutech32]

Being hella melodramatic. No the atmosphere does not just detonate cuz someone lights a cig. The cig just burns faster & hotter. Mind u too much above 30% starts causing permanent blindness among other negative health effects, but even pure oxygen wont explode unless it has a fuel, things are dry enough, & you have a high enough surface area to mass ratio.

[@ambika69]

@@virutech32 Sure, but everything else released with the free oxygen, especially things that used to be bonded to it, or could bond with the highly acidic gas, counts as fuel.

[@albertmercier2157]

Forgeworlds terraforming themselves through industrial activity ... I like this concept. Thanks.

[@chrisgriffith1573]

Stability would need to be maintained to hold a baseline for sustained growth, and there is a critical line which cannot be crossed, just like any pile of sand cannot exceed a specific number of degree incline for very long before it collapses back to the average of 35 degrees. Such is the amount of growth a planet can absorb before it too will collapse. Futurism. Its romantic, not accurate. For example, our current dilemma, global warming, could render our society extinct within our lifetime due to rising temperatures, soon to be outside of anything able to sustain our fragile bodies. Reality will play out to decide if we die trying to stay cool, or because climate changes are giving us a total collapse of our food chains, and industry cannot thrive due to other logistical factors that feed back on everyone starving with no job and no hope to grow food. More industry only sees more warming, and the consumers are feeding the growth of warmth factors, which exacerbate the problem, prosperity and efficiency hastens the end to come.

[@TraditionalAnglican]

That’s why Isaac suggested using Mars, where the waste hit would create a livable climate within 20-25 years…

[@chrisgriffith1573]

And 100 years past that? Stormtrooper, you missed the point.@@TraditionalAnglican

[@VladMcCain]

I could argue that the mechanicus isn't been "true" technology anymore. Not since the long night when Slanesh was born. Because Chaos. It's closer to magitech, like the Aelar's technology.

[@gothicvillasgaming]

I read it "Frogworlds" and thought wow

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Probably very swampy Environments😂

[@mpetersen6]

Welcome to Gedi Prime.