Forgotten Backbone: Bergepanzers

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

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[@GrimFaceHunter]

Stop lying, we all know that Kettenkrad could recover all vehicles up to and including Maus.

[@KrisT0f.]

burgerpanzer

[@wolfganggugelweith8760]

Not Panzers! Panzer is correct!

[@KrisT0f.]

@@wolfganggugelweith8760 Burgers! Burger!

[@U_Jelly]

We always pretend we know everything about ww2 german equipment when in reality there are so many obscure vehicles we’ve yet to discover

[@abbcc5996]

i remember them from playing company of heroes (the first one) back in middle school

[@fruit5488]

same! i cant remember exactly what they did... either repaired tanks or salvaged for more fuel?? ​@abbcc5996

[@abbcc5996]

@@fruit5488 from my memory the bergepanzer repaired the wrecks and then the vehicle would come back to life but with low hp and with some part like the engine or the gun being destroyed from the get go. it took a long time so you had to make sure that a misplaced explosion didn't destroy the wreck during the process as they were as brittle as any street lamp in the map. it also had a cool animation with the crane raising the wreck and sparks coming from it. i think the salvage for more fuel thing was in dawn of war but im not sure

[@_Jaspy_]

​@@abbcc5996 I still play company of heroes and the various mods that it has and can confirm you are right, that's how it works.

[@abbcc5996]

@@_Jaspy_ 🤠it would be on my top 5 or even top 3 games ever list despite not playing it actively in 10+ years (i did go back to it briefly a couple times but got crushed because i have been sleeping on RTSs). i can now almost taste the plates of fruit my mother would bring to me while playing it also it was the first game i tested on my current pc when i built it in 2013. it was a childhood dream to play it in max setting with high framerates, im still on the same setup now

[@Hotspur8383]

My grandfather drove a Tiger P armored recovery vehicle in Italy 1./653. I was even able to find a picture of him in Karl-Heinz Münch's book. Unfortunately, I was still young when my grandfather died and I never really talked to him about the vehicle. However, I remember him actually mentioning the better mobility of the vehicle compared to the regular Ferdinand. However, all the information I have does not go beyond the anecdotal. Mein Großvater hat einen Bergepanzer Tiger P in Italien gefahren 1./653. Ich konnte sogar ein Bild von Ihm im Buch von Karl-Heinz Münch finden. Leider war ich noch jung als mein Großvater starb und ich habe mich mit Ihm nie wirklich über das Fahrzeug unterhalten. Ich erinnere mich jedoch daran, dass er tatsächlich die bessere Mobilität des Fahrzeugs im vergleich zum regulären Ferdinand erwähnt hat. Alle Infos die ich habe gehen jedoch nicht über das anekdotische hinaus.

[@1965Leonard]

Hello . I built this as a model 1/35 many years ago. I always wondering how it would be with reduced weight . Superstructure gun and ammo is about 15 tons. So my guess it weght was only 53 tons. Thanks for sharing.

[@spazmonkey2131]

That's amazing, it irritates me that we don't have a lot of stories from the German side just on the basis of shame

Recovery was and still is very important and I think all armys underinvest in it. Great Video again

[@huma474]

Most other forces during WW2 didn't have the self inflicted material issues that the Germans did.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

> Most other forces during WW2 didn't have the self inflicted material issues that the Germans did. ?

[@typxxilps]

@@huma474 Nice myth told over and over again but those tank manufacturers have learned at least a lesson how to build reliable cars sold across the globe and conquering all the markets of the former enemies from Russia over UK to USA. Or even more considering that the most famous british brands had to be saved by BMW and VW, Rolls Royce and Mini but also Bentley and the italian Lamborghini, Giugaro design and even Ducatti. And of cause all these reports of broken british tanks in north africa must be wrong but why did the british replaced one tank model after the other if they had been so reliable ? My uncle had fought the whole african campaign up to Monte Casino and had a very good opinion about the british soldiers which usually had complained when captured that they wanted the german tanks and 8.8 not the british ones. How on earth could the germans with such terrible equipment reach the canal in such a short amount of time ? Really makes me wonder.

[@cryhavocandletslipthedogso1873]

@@typxxilps I''ve tried, but I cannot read your comment without a sassy voice

[@adamjaquay4279]

​@@MilitaryHistoryVisualizedi remember reading about the 24th Panzer Div (Leaping Horseman i think??) that in the end of October 1942 had lost 35 tanks burned, had 38 operational and 101 tanks recovered and in depo awaiting repair. So yes Germans were very good at recovering knocked tanks just not repairing them lol.

[@amerigo88]

Most of these production numbers look like "too little, too late." FWIW, my Cold War US Army maintenance platoon had three M60 tank hulls with turret removed, spade, winch, auxiliary power unit, and the boom for recovery and power pack swaps. It was American so we had an M2 .50 caliber dakka dakka on the roof. One crew member carried the M3 Grease Gun - in the 1980s! This M88A1 Armored Recovery Vehicle design could handle the M1A1 Abrams tank, but it was quite a challenge.

[@benholroyd5221]

Grease guns were still used by tank crews in the first gulf war. I suppose by the time you have tank and recovery crews needing small arms, you have bigger problems.

[@mikeynth7919]

@@benholroyd5221 I think that's why the recovery vehicles were turretless tanks.

[@typxxilps]

I had not known anything about the Bergepanzer in WW2 and always had thought that it was a post war Leopard invention when I served. Can not even remember if those were Bergepnazer based on chassis of Leo 1 or 2 but I guess Leo 1. They were quite impressive biests and usually used in the Inst Companies to drag or push those into the repair shops from the training area a few hundred meters away. They preferred to do the engine swaps in the shop instead outside in the field which also brought security issues if a tank was parked there outside the garrison overnight just a stonethrow from a street that was accessible (even not allowed) by the public. The refurbished engines were back then not instantly available and it took 1 day till they could swap the engines which was done quite fast compared to the preparations. The towing of the Leo 2 from the training area took longer than the engine swap to sum it up . And that was a towing distance of about 1 to 2 km with just a short path of 300 m into the open terrain. The time was not caused by the spot where it had happened. Just on a ramp to a hill under full power before the tipping point. From there back into neutral to simply roll backwards down till the tank stopped fully to get rid of the energy from that elevation. I always had thought that these were the only Bergepanzer and never had heard about that those were the successors. Great story of tank history - and I guess now the british american will ask for an episode about british american tank recovery and its vehicles.

[@genericpersonx333]

I find most every doctrine, concept, and indeed most equipment used by the German Heer in 1975 had their precedent in the Wehrmacht of 1944. There was an effort by many in the Bundeswehr to repackage these old ideas as "new" for political reasons, but rare was the Wehrmacht concept that didn't find some modern equivalent in the Bundeswehr. Just about the only things you would not find in your Bundeswehr in 1975 that were commonplace in the Wehrmacht would be the infanteriegeschütze, and if you look hard enough, at least a few Bundeswehr officers were arguing they really needed a modern equivalent of those as well!

[@butchs.4239]

It's a bit easier to find information on Allied recovery vehicles, as there are surviving examples of the M31 (M3 based), the M32 (M4 based) ARVs, and the M25 Tank Transporter. Both training films and actual WWII footage of Allied tank recovery units doing their job are up here on KZbin.

[@alwoo5645]

If a Ferdinand's engines broke down it would probably be possible to take a cable from the berger panzer to drive its electric motors

[@mysss29]

...what?

[@alwoo5645]

@@mysss29 it had a petrol/electric drive

[@contagioushavoc5794]

But where would the recovery vehicle get enough power to drive those motors? Also would need some huge power cables

[@julianbrelsford]

​@@contagioushavoc5794 DC motors can usually be successfully driven by an extremely wide variety of voltages/power levels, however low power will result in low speed.

[@alwoo5645]

@@contagioushavoc5794 from its own generators wouldn't need that big cables

[@GaijinEncarmine]

Much is said about the vehicles, ships, and aircraft of WW2, but little about the men and machines which keep them operational! It's great that channels like yours are helping to give people a more holistic perspective on this stuff.

[@mikeynth7919]

Understanding Logistics makes the importance of such vehicles obvious.

[@Dreachon]

There is actually quite some written about it, plenty of books have been published about the maintenance units and the work they did or about their equipment. The overwhelming majority of the people in the tank fandom can't be bothered about this as they just want the cool stories and the entire logistical stuff that went on it anything but cool.

[@GaijinEncarmine]

@@Dreachon You're quite correct!

[@Dreachon]

@@GaijinEncarmine A very interesting bok from Volker Ruff was about the German 16 ton portable gantry crane, a fascinating piece of equipment that so few know about.

[@rolandhunter]

How effective was it: "An example of Panther reliability appeared in the June 1944 edition of Nachrichtenblatt der Panzertruppen (Armoured Troops Bulletin), from a Panther-recovery tank driver's report: "Unteroffizier Krause of a Panther workshop platoon has driven his Panther recovery tank - Chassis No. 212132 - 4,200km until 3 May 1944 without making any engine changes and without suffering any damage to the side reduction gears (Seitenvorgelege), gear change or clutch. Approximately 1000 km have been covered with a Panther tank in tow. The vehicle and engine are still in great condition and operational."

[@cryhavocandletslipthedogso1873]

Yeah the wear and tear is sometimes bugged

[@alfnoakes392]

This is perhaps a good example of how a Panther (or any of the Big Cats) would last when properly driven/ looked after. The example given is a mechanic, and will be familiar with how to drive the vehicle with 'mechanical empathy' (to use a classic bike owner expression). By 1944 Germany was already scraping-the-barrel in terms both of finding recruits and having time and resources to train them properly eg having plenty of fuel to permit driving experience to be obtained before giving a very expensive and easily-broken tank to a kid who has only just learned to drive.

[@rolandhunter]

@@alfnoakes392 Exactly.

[@sthrich635]

German "Big Cats" tank crews were still maintained up to a certain standard even in latter war years since large chunk of the tank losses of Tigers and Panthers were non-combat, often abandoned tank being scuttled with the crew preserved, while combat-related ones were fewer thanks to their heavy armor and armament. The discrepancy of reliability between the usual frontline Panther tank and in this case a rear line Bergepanther were likely stemmed from the fact that careful usage and regular maintenance were rather, difficult to apply consistently among constant firefight, artillery barrages, difficult logistics, aircraft harassment, and hasty maneuver throughout German frontlines in the last years of war. Frontline panzers were driven and used till it completely broke down. Rear lines vehicle crews got comparatively less things to worry about and could focus more on the care of their vehicles.

[@rolandhunter]

​@@sthrich635 Good argument! Based on these facts, we can state "Big" cats were reliable as or almost as a sherman tank, but because of: -Poor fuel -Poor training -Constant fighting -Enemy Airsupremancy -Poor logistics -No spare parts The german panzers were not as well maintained as it should have been. This is the "breakedown" myth what is ruled the public knowledge for decades. PS: Despite these negatives, the Germans were able to achieve a 70-85% combat readiness rate in the autumn and winter of 1944.

[@tylerlawrence1997]

Somewhat unrelated, but I really like half-tracks.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

A man of culture.

[@tylerlawrence1997]

I especially enjoy the field modifications where the crew seems to have asks themselves just how much firepower they can cram onto the chassis before the suspension gives out

[@podemosurss8316]

@@tylerlawrence1997 Not a half-track, but you're going to enjoy the Spanish field modifications to the Panzer I 'Negrillo' ('Little Black'), then. They managed to put a 40mm on that beast, or a 20mm (most reliable version).

[@spacecase13]

Bergepanzers are constantly driving around my mind rent free unditching my thoughts. I'm glad to see a video on them.

[@johanponken]

It's funny if you consider the Swedish word: tänk. :)

[@aleksandrmikhail3803]

ah recovery tank, the only tank HOI4 forgot to put in......

[@fedinhorax]

Oh no what did you do???? The devs definitely watch this channel and now they'll definitely put it in the new patch! From now well need to configure and overhaul older versions when it comes out :(

[@alexvonrom7942]

Not if you play Black Ice, its in there ;)

[@meinhausbrennt1426]

and assault guns

[@ac4694]

Literally yesterday I discovered black ice mod and I swear, if you like pain and historical accuracy, you will fall in love

[@aidonger42069]

@@alexvonrom7942bro I hate vanilla with subscription, I got like. 200 hours. I know about black ice, millennium dawn, tfb, and road to 56. Which one should I try out ??????

[@simongee8928]

For some time, I'd misread 'Bergepanther' as 'Bergpanther' and wondered why the Wermacht had a 'mountain tank'. Then I realised my misreading and understand that for the addition of the letter 'e', it becomes a holding or moving tank - ! 😅

[@senadsotonica]

tow-panther

[@pRahvi0]

When crossing the Ardennes becomes so much of a habit that you dedicate a specific tank for it, lol

[@bwilliams463]

Very interesting and educational. I'm curious how the Axis machines stacked up against Allied recovery tanks in production and performance. I know the U.S. had recovery vehicles based on the M3 Lee and M4 Sherman (I have seen a photo of an M3 variant bodily carrying a Jeep on its crane boom), and the almost-bizarre-looking M4 Sherman Beach Armored Recovery Vehicle (BARV). If I recall correctly, the British actually created the BARV for the Normandy landings, and I have seen photos of them operating on the beaches. It would be interesting to know how much of an impact these units had during the War. Pre-emptive apologies if you have already uploaded a vid on this subject.

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

I think the BARV's had a different purpose in mind, it wasn't the recovery of damaged / broken down vehicles so much as getting them out of the way on crowded beaches to maintain the free flow of men, materiel and supplies.

[@bwilliams463]

@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 I suppose that's true. I'd still like to learn more about them.

[@Obvioustroller]

How many panzers do i need to berg to earn a Knights Cross? Also: this is my Bergepanzer, it bergs panzers.

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

It just occurred to me that Germany didn't really need recovery vehicles until they started retreating. An advancing army catches up to abandoned repairable tanks. This certainly applied on the Eastern Front by 1943, and the Western Front after June 1944. I don't know about North Africa, it moved back and forth so much, and it's my understanding that Italy was not great tank country. So maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I do that sometimes.

[@Dreachon]

Even on the advance you need recovery vehicles as you a way to get damaged or broken down tanks to the repair shops.

[@mikesmith2905]

In North Africa (as I understand it) the Germans tried to retain control of the battlefield whist the British preferred to withdraw into laager. The DAK was said to be better at tank recovery but both sides were short of tank transporters, so the tanks had to go a lot of the way on their own tracks. The lighter Italian tanks could be carried on an ordinary lorry (and they often were).

[@wilfriedklaebe]

​@@DreachonBut you don't need to recover them under fire, so you can easily use those 18t tractors.

[@inductivegrunt94]

It's easier to repair a tank than build an entirely new one. So being able to recover a tank to provide the necessary repairs would be a great benefit to any tank division. And when the tank is that heavy, you'll need a heavier tank with enough torque to haul such heavy tanks.

[@alfnoakes392]

And when that tank is very very heavy ... and so the cycle continues.

[@njake19]

Were and still are very useful for recovering mire vehicles but also towing disabled vehicles to the rear to leave the operational tanks in the front where they are best utilized.

[@leonidasbaneofpersia9069]

I have a model of a Bergepanther. I have not forgotten about these awesome vehicles

[@michaelguerin56]

Thank you. Excellent video.

[@MsZeeZed]

Can’t have a Panther Army without recovery Panthers 😹

[@jino_p.0483]

oh nice explanation of this vehicle. I remembered seeing a Bergerpanther at the Saumur tank museum in France. It war really impressive seeing it.

[@andrij66]

This might be obvious & not part of the video, but often times tanks have to pull their buddies out of situation they are in & back to the rear. It's part of a team, & they are right there... (In regards to the low numbers)

[@zgmfx-09a]

I've had a sleepless night and boom the perfect video to fall asleep to gute Nacht

[@frankgulla2335]

Very interesting. An oft-untold part of armor warfare. Thanks

[@Fabermain]

Bergers are often outfitted with mine clearing equipment aswell. some of the most succesful attempts of mineclearing in an active warzone is a modified berger with a mine plow.

[@patricklemire9278]

Great video. This is an underrated aspect of warfare, support.

[@DaYemenball]

Nicely reasearched and I learned a bit of German! +1 sub.

[@Ghostmaxi1337]

There is a Picture of a Bergepanzer III with a unqie shield and Mg 151/20 in the hull.

[@unknown0soldier]

People, and likewise games, often underestimate the importance of recovery and maintenance in actual combat. One of the very few games that feature BergePanzers (BergeTiger to be more specific) is CoH1 (anyone? xD). Interestingly, very few photos exist of these vehicles. I wonder if any surviving vehicle is still around somewhere in the museums?

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

I remember that, it was one of the very few multiplayer pvp matches, the guy rushed me and then put a Bergetiger in front my base repairing all those vehicles and basically spawn killing me. Hilarious now, not so much fun when it happened.

[@unknown0soldier]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized lol xD

[@jesper509]

A very interesting topic 👍

[@54032Zepol]

The panzer that could tow itself out of mud, wow! 🤯

[@Weapons.Of.Victory]

Very informative video, thank you. It inspires me a lot to create my own content.

[@kawaiiarchive357]

I'm an absolute sucker for tanks missing their turret especially if it's a recovery vehicle. If you have a bad habit of getting your 4x4 stuck having a bergepanzer would be a nice backup.

[@alfnoakes392]

If you get your van stuck in a ditch having a 4x4 passing by is also useful. From recent experience 😀

[@PaulBishop-w7t]

Thank you for producing a video on a less popular subject. Can you make a video on recovery vehicles for Allies as well?

[@stevecam724]

A BaggaPanzer, the BaggaPanzer was the backbone of the Panzer Division. Love the BaggaPanzer 😅😅😅

[@cnlbenmc]

All I know about Bergepanzers is that Germany didn't have enough of them and often they were underpowered for the kinds of Tanks they tried to move due to propensity to use obsolete tank chassis for creating them.

[@kenbb99]

It would have nice if you talked about the reliability of the drive train of the Panther recovery vehicles when towing Panthers or Tigers. Did the recovery vehicles break down a lot?

[@THESocialJusticeWarrior]

If you forgot, guess you didn't play Company of Heroes [one]. There was a Bergepanzer unit in the game based on a Tiger one, Bergetiger. It let you recover any tank, friend or foe. Great RTS game.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

At least one person mentioned it before. Here a copy-paste of my answer: I remember that, it was one of the very few multiplayer pvp matches, the guy rushed me and then put a Bergetiger in front my base repairing all those vehicles and basically spawn killing me. Hilarious now, not so much fun when it happened.

[@coenisgreat]

I knew of the Bergetiger I from its appearance in the first Company of Heroes. Looking into it, while there are photos of the vehicle in question, the idea of it being a recovery vehicle has basically always been disputed since it was found abandoned on a roadside in Italy 1944. The idea of it being a layer of demolitions is another theory, but no concrete evidence of either is really available. I like to think it's a recovery vehicle, but that's just because of bias from seeing it as one first.

[@carrickrichards2457]

German had an excellent recovery record. New research on Kursk suggests such a high recovery rate, it must have been important in Manstein's defence against the subsequent Soviet offensives.

[@logoseven3365]

Great video.

[@mongooserina]

_"I'm awake! I'm awake!"_ _"100mm of armor not enough? You want to be more defensive?"_

[@UnfollowYourDreams]

Super cool topic, maybe turn it into a mini-series?

[@lordterra1377]

Can you made a dedicated video of the German 20mm gun and its penetration values?

[@0Turbox]

Hard to believe, that the Bergepanzer Ferdinand lost only 5 tons without its superstructure, gun and the additional frontal armor. The Turret with gun of a Tiger I weighted 10 tons alone.

[@georgecristiancripcia4819]

Interesting video

[@jeremy28135]

AAA of the Panzerwaffe

[@Brabantian]

10:06 overloon had a bergepanzer 38 with 20mm gun

[@fundays1]

Do the Hügelpanzer next.

[@ac4694]

I always thought they were engineering vehicles. I tried to translate bergenpanzer as "bridge tank" used to build bridges under fire? Oh god, how wrong I was XD

[@darkninjacorporation]

The Ferdinand: **has its gun, casemate and ammunition removed** The drivetrain: “oh thank god” The Ferdinand: **charged with pulling a King Tiger out of a bog** The drivetrain: 🗿

[@300guy]

In profile shaded on the cover it looks like a fishing boat tank!😂😅

[@firepixzdel]

Was there something based on Panzer II hull?

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Not that I know of.

[@sharky9075]

A singular recovery vehicle was built based on the VK 1601, which was suppossed to be a modernized Panzer II with stronger armour among other modifications, though only few were built

[@puppetguy8726]

Victory is not decided by who has the most tanks, but by who can recover the most tanks

[@custardthepipecat6584]

I wish I brought some of those cat lover shirts

[@guidor.4161]

I'm wondering how the engines and drive train of the BergePanther and BergeFerdinand held up. These were notoriously weak and prone to breaking/catching fire.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

That is quite debatable, it seems that most people seem to go with the Kursk's issues and completely ignore everything thereafter.

[@Dreachon]

The engine wasn't an issue for the Panther and the Bergepanther was issued with a reinforced final drive as it was expected to exert more stress during towing. For the Bergeferdinand there weren't any issues as the vehicle lost a lot of weight compared to the regular Elefant which all enhanced its mobility. The 653rd quite liked it and the vehicle was also often picked to train replacement drivers when an opportunity allowed for it.

[@guidor.4161]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized True of course, but then especially the Panther D's would have to be modified, maybe with drive train components from later Panthers?

[@typxxilps]

@@guidor.4161 that is part of the regular maintenance like for cars nowadays. I the axle is weak but is not causing safety issues then the shop will check your car for open packages . There were different upgrades during my military service and from time to time we had to help the boys from the repair company to get things sorted out. Every second or third year we had a big overhaul or MOT for our Leos and that was a lot of work. This is how I got aware of my mercedes airbag exchanges and recall when the dealer told me that the maintenance can been done but the open airbag exchange will need a second appointment next week cause they did not have them in stock and it would take 1 day for delivery, but that was already too late cause it was friday noon when I had brought the car. Then I brought the car Monday morning and in the evening it had been fixed too. We had the same with EVs from VW 2 times where things that had been improved in the assembly line production had been replaced in those cars during regular maintenance.

[@tomhenry897]

Sound a little slow in make tank recovery vehicles

[@johnmcmickle5685]

No one should ever field a tank without a recovery plan for recovering that tank under fire..

[@Dreachon]

Where did you get the idea that the Bergeferdinand weighed 60 tons? It weighed 45 tons. Major mistake there.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

As stated Jentz & Doyle, Panzer Tracts 16, p. 16-17. What is your source?

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

As does tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/germany/bergepanzer-vi-ferdinand-elefant/

[@Dreachon]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Combat history of the 653rd by Karlheinz Munch A bit of common sense would have also told you that it would weigh way less since it lost the 16 tons superstructure and gun of the Elefant as well las the 5 ton of extra 100mm plates on the front, plus losing al that 88mm ammunition.

[@Dreachon]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Then I will need to ask them as well as it makes little to no sense.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Thanks. > Furthermore, pages 16 and 17 of Panzertracts 16 make no mention at all of the Bergeferdinand It is not the pages 16 to 17, but 16-17 (which is how Jentz & Doyle use it) at least that is written there for me at the bottom. Also it is "Panzer Tracts", maybe you are referring to something different? Maybe you have Panzer Tracts 16-1 on the Bergepanther? There is also a Panzer Tracts 16. Yeah, I should have been more careful, the other equipment that was added can't be that heavy.

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

Wonder what would have been used to recover a maus

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Göring

[@tomhenry897]

As tanks got heavier needed some just as heavy to recover them

[@williamashbless7904]

I’m surprised that BergePanther was regarded favorably. Given its reputation for having marginal final drives in the combat form I would think the extra stress of towing 45 tons would cause very noticeable breakdowns and service interruptions. Compare the Panther to BergePanther and they don’t match up.

[@Dreachon]

Because the reputation of the marginal final drives is severely overblown as a lot of people pushing this claim have the goal of kicking down on German armor of WW2 as it is considered a cool thing to do. Second is also that the Bergepanthers received a strengthened final drive to help deal with the additional stress that would be imposed on them during pulling and recovering.

[@williamashbless7904]

@@Dreachon There is a very persistent thought that half of all disabled Panthers found after the Normandy Campaign were abandoned due to transmission/final drive failure. Panther was a rushed overreaction to the T-34 threat. It had serious issues that interfered with its operational readiness and capability. The ‘solution’ to the final drive weakness was to effectively train the driver not to stress that weak component during combat. I’m curious about the strengthened final drives allocated to BergePanther. Is there a source for that? And, why didn’t they outfit this to the rest of production? Jacques Littlefield had an incredible team of mechanics and engineers at his facility in Portola Valley. They completely restored one of the first Panther’s to running condition. He said there was no way to fix the final drives. With modern engineers, advanced heat treatment and proper alloyed steel, these units were incapable of handling the stresses put on them from a 45 ton tank.

[@Dreachon]

@@williamashbless7904 That comes because the text got ripped out of context and people eager to bash German armour or those who don't know any better just run with it. It was a very small batch of tanks in a certain area, i think it is written in the Panther book from Jentz and Doyle but if you read the text carefully you'll see that it was only a small percentage. In general the operational readiness of the Panther wasn't so bad, throughout 1944 it is on average about 5% blow that of the Panzer IV and we see that in the months were it is relatively peaceful on the frontlines that the Panther can reach a 70 to 80% readiness rate which isn't bad at all. Production of the reinforced final drives seems to have, like a lot of stuff, to be stuck in a bottleneck so supply could never keep pace with demand. It also seems that both the Bergepanther and Jagdpanther received priority over the normal Panther. I have over the years become more sceptical of what Mr Littlefield claimed, mainly because there are more Panthers and Jagdpanthers brought back to operational readiness and these vehicles don't seem to have that many issues with their final drives.

[@williamashbless7904]

@@Dreachon Jadgpanther Battalion 654 was in Belgium during Normandy. It was under strength and traversed some 300 km to get to the front. That unit’s maintenance records reported 18 final drive failures out of 25 vehicles. Littlefield said there was no way to improve the final drives. You are saying that they were being replaced by reinforced parts with priority going to BergePanther and Jadgpanther. Is there a source for this? Littlefield had a passion for AFV’s and spared no expense. He and his team of mechanics and engineers got it wrong? Museums have enormous capital tied up in restored vehicles. Parts are hard to obtain and expensive. Are you saying the life of a museum queen is somehow representative of combat?

[@Dreachon]

@@williamashbless7904 The 654 was there for rebuilding and retraining following their rather shoddy performance at Kursk with the Ferdinand. Many of the crews were new and inexperienced or not yet accustomed to the new Jagdpanthers which comes as no great surprise as deliveries of these vehicles was painstakingly slow. A 300km roadmarch would also be taxing for any tank of that era, reports from British units shows that Shermans would break down quicker than the Cromwell after long marches. Main difference of course was that the unit operation the Sherman enjoyed a much better logistical system and the tank would likely be back in action in no time. That or a replacement vehicle would already be waiting for them at the depot. There is sadly no single source that points this all out nicely, it comes from all parts here and there that one has to collect andp ut the pieces together. Some aspects of WWII are shockingly poorly documented or the right files are still lingering somewhere in the archives waiting to be discovered. I would say that a museum vehicle will in general have it way way way better than the vehicle during WWII, better maintenance, access to quality oils, lubricants and fuel.

[@Aris262]

79th anniversary of VE Day at the time of this post...

[@livincincy4498]

It seems you frequently had to kill German AFV several times because they were rebuilt. The Soviets just left them abandoned as they drove to Germany.

[@dennisswaim8210]

If only Germany had developed EV tanks, then it wouldn't have had to worry about needing oil. Although I guess the Elephant was sort of a hybrid vehicle.

[@matthewj5333]

Can you say bergerpanzer panther 5 times fast?

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

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[@typxxilps]

You might pinn that on top or it will get lost in the comments.

[@KrisT0f.]

burgerpanzer

[@neelkanthsapre3254]

Like the video but it would have been more effective if english names would have been instead of some of the German names

[@Yaivenov]

"Forgotten Backbone".... There is a horse vertibrae joke in there somewhere.

[@towgod7985]

Why did the Heer simply take the hundreds of captured T28 tanks and convert THEM into standardized bergepanzer.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Lack of spare parts, I would say.

[@ryleeculla5570]

It’s just a recovery vehicle that’s what it means they probably used these a lot at Kursk to recover vehicles from the Russians step heck maybe some of the vehicles recovered were turned into recovery vehicles

[@Kalashnikov413]

recovery vehicle are still critically important

[@jamesdc9595]

Rahhhh sustainment operations mentioned rahhhhh

[@Custerd1]

AAA-panzer...

[@satyanala2727]

WW 2

[@WarProductions_]

Burger panzers

[@BarcelPL]

hehe jib-boob

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Beautiful Culture True Efficiency Godbless Support Units

[@TheCosmicGuy0111]

Ooooo

[@erebys21]

What

[@feeblezak]

room temp iq.

[@berserker4940]

Z