Forgotten Plane From A Forgotten Campaign: Vultee A-31 Vengeance

[@thisisnev]

Props for name-checking Peter C Smith and his definitive book on the Vengeance!

[@nickdwyer9405]

A aircraft mystery in Western Australia in 1944 involved a Vultee Vengeance A27-295 which crashed about 200 miles east of Perth. The aircraft was low on fuel in low cloud and the pilot told his gunner to bail out. He then bailed out too. The pilot walked to a farmhouse and was rescued. The gunner has never been found. The crash site was investigated and there was no sign of him. His parachute was gone and despite an intensive search, to this day, no trace has ever been found. It was confirmed by ground crew that he was in the aircraft when it took off.

[@AnthonyOMulligan-yv9cg]

Any Water Bodies Nearby?

[@johnmcmickle5685]

If it was rough terrain where the gunner landed that is entirely possible or if the chute failed to open it would make finding the person much more difficult. The best chance would have been a parachute in a tree.

[@johnmcmickle5685]

@@AnthonyOMulligan-yv9cg Knowing the heading of the airplane and altitude at the time would also be valuable information. This is also in the Western Australia a region that is remote today so in 1944 people were few and far between. the Japanese actually landed a reconnaissance force Western Australia but gained no information because all they found was trees and wild animals.

[@Orangesjesus]

​@@johnmcmickle5685 there is a good scene, in the movie "gallipoli", with Mel Gibson, off to fight the kaiser, an old camel train driver asks why, " because he wants this desert", .."he can have it", says the camel rider 😂

[@Orangesjesus]

​@@AnthonyOMulligan-yv9cgNullarbor plain has vast underground river system...under the desert..(probably well mapped by drone, these days?..was a popular dive sites.. ).

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

My wife's uncle spent some of the late war in the back seat of an RAAF Vengeance for communications and training flights. He told me that he served no useful purpose that couldn't have been equally met by sand bag ballast. Apparently the unloaded Vengeance with an empty rear seat had a tendency to become unrecoverable in a steep dive due to the forward shift of the centre of gravity. That was never put to the test during his flights and, as he put it, the war ended before he had the opportunity to be shot at.

[@AnthonyOMulligan-yv9cg]

Sad that he felt that way, was stationed there. My aunt was a RAF senior controller and my uncle was a Navigator on Mossies

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

@@AnthonyOMulligan-yv9cg I don't think he regretted it as it eventually helped him into a career in teaching. He joined straight out of high school and trained as a Wireless Operator/Air Gunner and possibly would have gone to 4 engine heavies if the war had lasted longer. The Vengeance had already been withdrawn from combat by the time he got to fly in one so I suppose there was some feeling of filling in time.

[@rastarn]

The last intact and complete example of the Vengeance is in a private museum here in Australia. The type did some solid work for the Royal Australian Air Force during the war, garnering a reputation for high accuracy at dive bombing. Records in Australia show that It was ultimately pulled from combat at the insistence of U.S. commanders, who both thought it would require too many supporting aircraft to operate in heavier combat and preferred the use of medium and heavy bombers.

[@glennsimpson7659]

Also because it required a fighter escort, while Kittyhawk fighter-bombers (although less accurate in ordnance delivery) were self-escorting.

[@dekksherton6824]

The British army fought it's withdrawl due to newer fighter bomber scould not do what the Vultee dive bombers do.

[@andrewrobinson5837]

I was lucky enough to see that one in Camden before the museum closed. Quite an imposing aircraft it was in ground running condition until the 80's. Current condition not really known, but it is definitely indoors.

[@andydallibar2951]

@@andrewrobinson5837 I know the plane well, I used to see it almost every weekend. My dad was one of the plane restorers at Camden. It may well be in Narellan now, I'm not sure on that though.

[@johnreep5798]

One of my favorite aircraft. I built the Frog kit and the Guillow’s model.

[@lancerevell5979]

I've built three 1/72 plastic models - an A-31 and two Vengence Mk.IIs, all by Ark Models. 😎👍

[@hodaka1000]

​​@@lancerevell5979 I've got two 1/72 Smer A-31s waiting to be finished

[@ronfry3324]

I remember back in the late 60s or early 70s that I believe the old AirClassics magazine had an article where 6 airframes had been found in Tennesee. Maybe these were around the old Vultee facility.

[@kevinwilliams4899]

Thanks for covering this aircraft. My interest was started by a Frog 1/72 model I made when I was about 9 or 10 !969/70 time.

[@sueneilson896]

There is a crashed Vaultee Vengence site in a fairly remote area in Western Australia. The occasional visitor can read the tragic story on the memorial to its crew.

[@markymarknj]

When I was a kid, I used to have the Red Randall books. In one of them, Red Randall and his buddy, Jimmy Joyce, are asked with ferrying a Vultee airplane to the Philippines, IIRC. The book never said what type it was, but it was a two crew airplane; I remember that Red and Jimmy drew straws to determine who would fly it and who would sit in the aft cockpit. It was probably the A-31 that they had in mind, as it fits the description in the book I read long ago. It's nice to finally put a "face" to the airplane featured in the book. Thank you!

[@barryervin8536]

The A-31 was later redesigned into the A-35, which did away with the zero incidence wing (and the resulting tail- low flying attitude) since it turned out that very little vertical dive bombing was being done anyway. The A-35 added a few more guns too. The Vengeance was actually a very good dive bomber, but dive bombers were going out of fashion by then. Many of the pilots who flew them in India and Burma liked them, they were rugged and flew well and were much faster than a Stuka.

[@markymarknj]

Also, the US had a fair number of SBD Dauntlesses in service; since they were doing a good job, there was no need to bring in a second dive bomber with all the logistics challenges that go along with introducing a new aircraft type. Supply chains need to be established, training needs to be instituted, and so on. That's why the P-63 Kingcobra was never built in large numbers; though it was a fine aircraft, it wasn't so much better than the P-51 that its addition and the aforementioned challenges were justified. The same applies to the A-31.

[@moblinmajorgeneral]

The Russians loved the P-63 because it did perform better than the Yak-9 in a lot of aspects

[@jamesbugbee9026]

Unloved warbird?- As a Vultee, it can come get a hug from me, as Vultee made cool, slightly eccentric (like in having character) stuff ❤❤❤

[@lancerevell5979]

And Vultee became Consolidated Vultee, and finally Convair, maker of some of my favorite combat aircraft - F-102, F-106:and B-58. A company that was always pushing the boundaries, on the cutting edge of technology. 😊

[@garybrader8447]

​@@lancerevell5979Vultee had nothing to do with Consolidated during the production of the Vengeance.

[@fembotheather3785]

My dad was present at the attack on Pearl Harbor, by his own description: a dive bomber pilot waiting for his ship and without a plane to fight in, forced to be but a spectator and later, a blood donor. He described the SBD as "his plane" and described the SB2C Helldiver as one that was "okay" once the "brasshats" listened to the pilots and fixed it. He also flew in Korea, where he said that dive bombing had become almost obsolete and everybody but the "assholes" in Washington seemed t know it. :)

[@redtobertshateshandles]

I think that you're a bit mixed up there.

[@fembotheather3785]

@@redtobertshateshandles Can you tell me why you think that?

[@Dracsmolar]

My aunt Maxie worked at the Vultee plant in Nashville Tennessee during WW2. As a parts runner she worked on skates due to the plant being so big.

[@Renshen1957]

P-51 was the Johnny came lately…for the Pacific-USAAF P-38.

[@carmenopramolla5262]

US in the Pacific then either the F4 or F6 not a P51

[@bebo4807]

Yeah the P-51 does not come to mind for the pacific. Maybe cool logo watched too many Spielberg movies.

[@Renshen1957]

@@carmenopramolla5262 The F4F held the line, the F6F for the defeat of the IJN air superiority, The FM-2 Wildcat for the Jeep Carriers, and the Corsair to stop the Kamikazes.

[@zJoriz]

I gotta wonder how it would've been if the US hadn't stalled delivery to GB... Imagine the Brits having actual large-scale success with dive-bombing ships and other small targets early in the war. The whole conflict could've looked vastly different.

[@womble321]

The Vengeance was loved by British pilots. They were completely confused when it wasn't proceeded with in the UK. I believe only one UK Squadron was formed. It was replaced by the Swordfish !!!! Why! Hundreds of US built aircraft were actually delivered to the UK. The engines were removed and they were scrapped! An absolute discrace. The engines were used on Wellingtons and Sunderlands.

[@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe]

Whole Conflict?

[@zJoriz]

@@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe Whole conflict.

[@ericvanlede481]

.. and so what if the Polish didn't discover the first commercial Enigma .. disaster in Atlantic .. and British collapse ?

[@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe]

You sent this last year , early last year. Anything new?

[@alancranford3398]

I know more about the A-31/A-35 than I did before, but the unique wing shape of the A-31 made it unmistakable. The A-31 is one of my cards in a reproduction deck of WW2 aircraft recognition playing cards. The dive bomber came of age and went obsolete during the Thirties. At the time a fighter could only carry a small bomb load and not carry it far. Bive bomber speeds were competitive right up to 1940 with fighters--the US Navy SBD Dauntless had a third mission of intercepting enemy torpedo bombers (there were missions of scouting, dive bombing, and laying smoke screens). The level bomber lacked bombing accuracy. The dive bomber could hit small targets with precision, was able to hit moving targets, and carried a heavier bomb load than did the fighter. Light bombers, "attack aircraft" and medium bombers had more range and could carry a heavier bomb load but if you were trying to hit "the broad side of the barn" or even somewhere on the roof, level bombing conducted from above the altitude of anti-aircraft fire. Dive bombers proved effective due to their ability to put bombs where they were needed. Shortcomings of the dive bomber were a need for fighter escort and late-war fighter bombers had more range, carried a heavier bomb load, could self-escort on combat missions, and were almost as accurate as the dive bomber. The late-war AD-1 "attack bomber" combined torpedo bombing with level bombing and dive bombing to carrier platforms, but WW2 ended before the Skyraider was available in large numbers. Dive bombers were not liked when a medium bomber had longer legs, better defensive firepower, bigger bomb load, and could be configured for specialized anti-shipping missions and attacking enemy airfields -- think "B-25 Mitchell." Fighter-bombers replaced the land-based dive bomber. Aircraft carrier flight decks made a single engine bomb truck desirable. I imagine the War Department of 1942 as a 500-pound retarded gorilla gibbering "I want planes!" Seizing anything that had wings was a panic reaction. The US Army Air Force didn't really want dive bombers. Close air support (CAS) was just not the USAAF's thing. Interdiction missions behind the enemy's front line was. Skip bombing proved more effective than torpedo bombing in the Pacific due to flawed American torpedoes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing Anyway, the US War Department grabbed all the resources it could find--much like a ravenous wolf gulping down fresh sheep. If the B-29 was available in quantity, Hap Arnold would have equipped his USAAF with nothing but B-29 bombers and bombed from high altitude. It was only after the failed strategic bombing offensives of 1942 and 1943 that the USAAF figured out how poorly the self-protected bomber fared against enemy resistance. The Vultee Vengeance was not the only dive bomber the USAAF had--the A-24 Dauntless and A-25 Helldiver were taken into air force service if for no other reason than to deny the Navy and Marine Corps of dive bombers. I keep saying that politics is 90% of weapon procurement, 9% is logistics and only 1% or less is weapon performance. The Vengeance was taken into USAAF service for political and logistical reasons. The A-31 was available and the USAAF had to beef up its warplane numbers even when it wasn't the plane the Army wanted. Besides, keeping planes out of the hands of the REAL USAAF enemies (the Navy and Marines) was more important than winning the war. It wouldn't do to allow the Navy to have more planes than the USAAF.

[@hardkoreboy]

Trainers may not be sexy, but they are loved: the Texan to which you refer, for example (although I know it as the Harvard). I happened to be there for the last flight of the South African Air Force Harvard trainers - 150 of them. There were all kinds of fans there, among them retired Harvard mechanics, pilots and collectors from all over the world. After landing the aircraft formed up on the apron, their radials thrumming, and switched off simultaneously. There wasn't a dry eye for miles.

[@Paladin1873]

I got to fly one once. It's surprisingly nimble and will turn on a dime.

[@neilcoligan8621]

The Harvard was a key aircraft in the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan. In 1939, Canada, Great Britain, New Zealand and Australia signed an agreement to train Allied aircrews, including pilots, navigators, bomb aimers, wireless operators, air gunners, and flight engineers. More than 130,000 crewmen and women were trained between 1939 and 1945, making this one of Canada's great contributions to Allied victory in the war. It lead President Franklin Roosevelt to call Canada the "aerodrome of democracy."

[@Paladin1873]

@@neilcoligan8621 Canada's new navy in WWII was no slouch either.

[@arthurjennings5202]

I did enjoy the content. Thanks for showcasing this forgotten aircraft. It might have been interesting if it had been given to the US Marines in the beginning of the war.

[@picklerick8785]

It couldn't have sucked more than the Vindicator at Midway.

[@darkdinochris6256]

Thanks very much for covering the Vengeance! It’s one of my favorite planes of all time!❤

[@brucerussell7]

Thanks for your acknowledgment of the vengeance. My grandfather was a vengeance pilot in the royal Australian Air Force. Unfortunately I never got to meet him however I read his log books and he mentions attacks against Japanese positions in PNG and strafing runs on Japanese supply barges.

[@onthatrockhewillbuildhisch1510]

The Australian RAAF used the Vengeance in New Guinea from the Nadzab airdrome in late 1943 and early 1944. US General Kenny did not think they were an efficient use of the limited airdrome parking space,

[@steventrigg6107]

The picture of the Vengeance taking off at 7:45 is piloted by my father. I have that photograph in his logbook at home.

[@kevanhubbard9673]

I had read about Madagascar but only in a travel book about, obviously, travel in Madagascar and it briefly mentioned wartime Madagascar.

[@alanpennie]

One of the strangest campaigns of the war. Conquered because The Brits were afraid the Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as a base. It was all useful practice for amphibious operations in North Africa and Europe.

[@kidmohair8151]

I did enjoy the video, and I did learn something, so I liked it, and now, I'm commenting.

[@pithicus52]

Good video, but I was waiting the whole time for a description of the Madagascar campaign.

[@csjrogerson2377]

Very interesting video. I had never heard of this aircraft, but I am not well versed in the Burma Campaign.

[@damienmaynard8892]

evasive action? Run around in the cockpit! Better than the Brewster Buccaneer/Bermuda used for ASW/SAR in the West Indies. The biplane Helldiver was used by Marine observation squadron in Samoa, called Cleveland in British service. In Borneo the RAAF used the Vengeance pretty much perfectly - the "minor role" assigned by the US. My grandfather built airstrips there and in many other places from Timor to Singapore which are now international airports!

[@MisterOcclusion]

Regarding your preamble, I’d say that the Stuka is THE iconic aircraft of WWII in that anyone who knows the slightest bit about aviation will instantly recognize it. When I was young I couldn’t tell a spitfire from a hurricane, but I sure knew what that bent wing bird with the spatted undercart was.

[@Alex-wk6yo]

I agree with you on that either that or the p-51

[@mddunlap03]

Ima say b29 or corsair. All ww2 movies show the bent wing war birds on carriers

[@damndirtyrandy7721]

I’d go as far as saying, you need to consider the War in Europe and the War in the Pacific separately due to the unique requirements for each theatre. WW2 in Europe, Stuka sticks out like a sore thumb, but, those discussing the Pacific (which I would argue the vast majority of those engaging in discourse regarding the war against Japan are slightly more savvy in their knowledge of war material) would pick the SBD /Corsair

[@KOMET2006]

I'll go with the P-38 Lightning twin-boom fighter. What a beauty!

[@mathewkelly9968]

Ok neo fascist

[@dereknelson-wills4213]

Why did you show a Hawker Henley target tug at 15:49, though?

[@carmenopramolla5262]

Nice video especially the usage of readable maps. Cheers

[@scootergeorge7089]

I see the outer wing panels were swept forward to correct a center of gravity issue. Messerschmitt swept the outer wings of the Me 262 back for a similar reason. As for the angle of incidence, in the Airframes and Powerplants classes I attended, the instructor taught, angle of attack changes but angle of incidence never does. Pointing out that the latter can change with the F8 Crusader it was pointed out that what's important is what the FAA says. But I do have a question. How did the A-31 measure up to the Curtiss SB2C Helldiver. I heard the British were offered that dive bomber and rejected it. I am partial to the SBD Dauntless, perhaps because it was designed by Ed Heinemann, who is also responsible for the A-4 Skyhawk, AKA Scooter which I worked on in the Navy. .

[@ThomasStallings-l8q]

A beautiful aircraft, as were many of the era.

[@xgford94]

16:08 Australia was NOT a colony , it was a dominion until 9th October 1942, when we became fully self governing , SOME of the states that made up the Commonwealth were former colonies, some were provinces… why does this matter same reason any US citizen would be offended by the US being called a Colony.

[@michaellew1297]

And, about half of the photos are of Australian planes! Not "British".

[@jimbooth826]

A Vultee Vengeance lays upon the bottom of Soldiers Point Port Stephens NSW Australia after a WW2 accident . I assisted with my charter vessel Kunara both RAAF and RAN who searched and dived but no sign found in the muddy bottom . (Some time in early 1990's)

[@alecblunden8615]

Australia was a self governing dominion from 1901. The Statute of Westminster 1931 was an undertaking by the Imperial Government not to legislate for a Dominion once accepted. Every dominion apart from Australia adopted the Statute in 1931. Australia left it to 1942, but the Imperial Parliament would never have legislated for Australia unless asked.

[@englishpassport6590]

Now we English Welsh Scots and Irish are treat as being invisible colonies of a selfish and ignorant Capital City London. We are completely dependent on a Capital City which refuses to recognise or represent the English as a Nation or a People.

[@stevecastro1325]

I definitely learned something, actually a lot of things about the Vultee Vengeance. It seems like it was good for its type, but military wanted a different type.

[@nocloo6829]

As always, super-interesting topic and great presentation! I also enjoyed the topical caricatures. Well done, I definitely learned a lot! PS: I actually like the T-6 and T-8, they did a very important job, albeit not being as sexy as your Mustangs or Spitfires, and if you are, like me, interested in RC models and would like a scale warbird without all the gun/bombs -baggage, but capable of aerobatics, a wartime trainer is a neat alternative!

[@remylopez4821]

There was a dive bomber version of the mustang used in the CBI theater called the A-36 Apache powered by an Allison engine and use quite successfully, but not many people remember it or even talk about it

[@williamstel9330]

My grandfather worked at Vultee in I believe Downey during WW2 and on the Vengence I was told and I have a couple of group photos of team he was with.

[@CraigCsfshrink]

No one thinks of the P-51 Mustang in the Pacific. Mustangs in Europe. Wildcats and Corsairs in the Pacific.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

The P-51 saw action in the CBI and West Pacific. Notably, long-range bomber escort over Japan.

[@whatnowstinky]

You say Pacific allied fighter and I think P40 even before Wildcat, Hellcat and Corsair, but that may be my Australian bias showing. 😁

[@remylopez4821]

People forget there was a dive bomber version of the mustang the A-36 Apache used in China Burma powered by Allison engine

[@Deviation4360]

Great video. I now know 400% more than I ever knew on this type. It always looked like a capable and rugged design, seems the wing alteration went a little too far becoming nose heavy again without the rear occupant. I would like to know what the story of the Hurricane buzzing the bridge image was? Looks to be an Australian marked example.

[@danditto6145]

Glad it finally got to show its stuff in Burma!!

[@tonydrake462]

When you listed the 'pacific' aircraft - I never think P51! (more over europe) - but the F4U corsair... anyway, love the Vengeance, build the 1/48 dora model of one, wonderful.. my grandfather was in PNG and was based at a airfield that flew them (he was a base Dr)

[@unsavory_character]

Is this some kind of wildcat/ helldiver love child?? Never heard of it! Thanks for the video!

[@tootired76]

About 1970 I built a Paul K Guillow stick and tissue kit of a Vengeance! I taped a string to the wing and twirled it around in a 15 foot arc! The tape let go and it crashed into the fence perfectly shearing off the wings. I took the wings and designed and built my own stick and tissue model. NOPE that didn't work!!!

[@balsachopper7]

@tootired76, l did not know Guillows made a model of the Vengence. I have the old Comet kit that l am working on now. Will have to look up the Guillows kit.

[@tootired76]

@@balsachopper7 Perhaps my memory fails me. It could have been a Comet kit that I built.

[@minhthunguyendang9900]

I came to know of this plane’s existence only in 1962 by coming upon a real gem for the magazine collector I am : a May 1944 issue of the American 🇺🇸 « Flying » magazine. It was not even a picture but a tiny drawing in an ad for plane scale models ! I wondered for years why the Vengeance wasn’t mentioned anywhere else.

[@robmarsh6668]

I've always thought the vengeance was a great looking airplane. I like the vultee fighter too.

[@hoodoo2001]

What about the Indians? Two squadrons of the Indian Air Force (IAF) (No. 7 and No. 8) saw combat.

[@chilarai1]

It was perhaps with the IAF that the Vengeance saw its greatest success. There are still some Vengeance pilots and gunners alive in India.

[@RemusKingOfRome]

With Cowboys and Indians, who remembers the Indians ? :D

[@shaunprice3922]

What airplane did they fly? The channel is about the craft. Did India create it?

[@soknightsam]

Mentions the Indian planes around twenty minutes in

[@redtobertshateshandles]

​@@RemusKingOfRomeJohn Wayne and Union Carbide.

[@jeffsiegel4879]

Yup. The name was the best thing about it. While the Dauntless was considered old at the onset of the war, it was the tool that defeated the Japanese navy at Midway. If the Vengeance had been the tool of choice, then our guys would've figured out a tactic to make it work. But I'm glad we had the Dauntless.

[@barryervin8536]

The Vengeance wasn't a Navy plane and was not capable of landing on an aircraft carrier so it couldn't have been the tool of choice at Midway. The Army lost interest in dive bombers long before the Navy did.

[@erikmerchant567]

I'm not sure that this is an accurate assessment of the Dauntless's age. The SB2 Vindicators were just being replaced by the Dauntless when the war broke out and were in fact still active up until Midway in June 1942. I'd hardly call the Dauntless "old". Even the theoretical replacement Helldivers were only about 6 months newer in design and could not be used onboard Escort carriers. I think most everyone in the US Navy was glad we had the Dauntless.

[@robbudden]

I really like that plane, honestly one of my favourite planes. It is visually pragmatic and I like that.

[@paulm1365]

Question - did anyone try to make a fighter tailored to escort carriers? I know the Wildcat was developed with greater power and it’s undercarriage was well suited to CVE’s but I was wondering if anyone tried to use say the R2600 to make something lighter than the Hellcat and Corsair. (I assume the Bearcat would have been excellent as a CVE fighter but too late for WW2).

[@andrerousseau5730]

Very noticeable and eye-catching is the modern feature of the square-tipped wings and empennage. Also, note-worthy is there was no necessity for a stand-off bomb-drop 'trapeze', a-la Ju87 Stuka.

[@thamesmud]

MadaGasCar being renamed do MadanEvCar sometime soon.

[@robertbice529]

😂

[@restitvtororbis5330]

I don't know which circle of hell that joke just earned you but there has to be one

[@GrahamHunt-pz3re]

I saw a Vultees Vengeance aircraft still in WWII RAAF livery at a private museum located at Camden Airfield, outskirts of Sydney NSW in the early 70's. It was in an old WWII hangar full of many types of mostly RAAF & RAN aircraft and bits and pieces. The museum I believe is closed and has now moved to another location some place nearby. I'm sure that aircraft is still in existence with the other aircraft, including from memory a Fairy Gannet and a Bristol Beaufighter plus others.

[@johncaldwell-wq1hp]

Been there Sat in it too in the 60's-!!

[@byronbreese3454]

Angle of incidence: TY for explaining that!! (btw, "Larmay duh lair" said quickly; my high school French still works...) Always had a soft spot for Vultee. OMG, the Toyota Destroyer!!!!

[@skipdreadman8765]

The AT-6 Texan/Harvard is a _very_ well-known aircraft and can be found at any airshow with a warbird presence.

[@briancavanagh7048]

Where is the link to the book?

[@kellyschram5486]

Corsair, wild cat, hell cat, lighting, the big jug thunderbolt, spitfire, mosquito, me109, me262, they are so many and every one easy to make out I think the hardest to tell apart are the us navy plans. The hardest I think are the wildcat and the hellcat. The difference is many in the size but you can't see that in film and I have yet to see them side by side in any.

[@damndirtyrandy7721]

Besides the size, the Wildcat is a lot smaller than the Hellcat, to the sense that the pilot doesn’t look small, I always look for the Wildcat’s wheels tucked into the fuselage when trying to id the two especially from the side front.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Wildcats and Hellcats have different wings and landing gear.

[@garybrader8447]

Build a scale model of any plane, then you will be able to identify it in photos or movies much more readily.

[@kellyschram5486]

Yes and you are all right and I build many scale aircraft models. We all know what to look for but to your average Joe off the street they look the same. To many of the unlucky Japanese they did too. A lot died thinking they were fighting one when it was the other.

[@BlitzenSpeaks]

Thanks! I had heard of the A-31/35, but didn't know its specs. Good video! My personal favorite of the lesser known planes is the A-20 Havoc. A great plane in most regards, yet not many people have heard of it.

[@Michael-he7xn]

Great video! I gotta admit, I’ve never heard of the beast. I mean who could forget a wing like that?

[@jameshanlon5689]

The P-51 Mustang was more the Europe than the Pacific. However, the fighters of note in said Pacific was the F6F Hellcat and the F4U Corsair for the US.

[@richardletaw4068]

TO THE NARRATOR: Nice piece, as usual. But PLEASE: It’s not “Vitch-ee” France, but VEE-SHEE, with almost equal stress on the two syllables. I know you’re not a linguist, as I am. But this is important, man!

[@RemusKingOfRome]

"an unloved performer" .. sounds like me .. :( .. everyone go "Awwwwww.." LOL Did I see a massive cannon in the wing of the A-31 with a tarp over the missing engine compartment ? Looked 30mm ?

[@carmenopramolla5262]

The programme title was Lend Lease/ Reverse Lend Lease. Every piece of USA manufactured equipment was paid for before leaving any US port. The payments were in currency, precious metals or land/base usage.

[@Idahoguy10157]

Neither the USAAF or RAF liked using dive bombers. Preferring two and four engine bombers. Whereas the US Navy and Royal Navy loved their dive bombers

[@alanpennie]

It was pretty much impossible to hit a moving ship with conventional bombers. Those that were sunk in this way (notably The Tirpitz) were sunk while they were moored.

[@jamesvandemark2086]

Until seeing this, I'd only heard it described as the Vulture!

[@stoobydootoo4098]

The plane flying under the bridge is a Hawker Hurricane. Why show this?

[@920utdoor]

Why not

[@stoobydootoo4098]

@@920utdoor Cos it isn't relevant to the subject of the video?

[@briancavanagh7048]

Yes I also wondered what was the significance of that bridge? Something to do with dive bombing perhaps?

[@Topher5035]

Australia, and other areas, were referred to as self governing dominions rather than Colonies in the British Empire of WWII. There was actually considerable disagreement between the Australian government and the British government over the allocation of high performance combat aircraft to the Pacific, especially before 1942, with the eventual supply of 400 Vengeance through Lend lease one of the compromises agreed.

[@johncaldwell-wq1hp]

Yes-the was an example,-in the old "Camden-Air-Museum"-in N.S.W.-Aust.-I used to sit in it as a kid,-in the 60's--the museums long gone,--but I hope it is in "private"hands"-as any "officials"-would soon scrap it,-as they do to anything else,-they can get their mits on !!

[@johngathard4717]

Sadly both UK and US armed forces had a few influential senior officers with enough power to hinder the Allies combat effectiveness. One of these blinkered officers thought that because Stukas suffered badly against the RAF in the Battle of Britain dive bombers were useless. He didn't want the Vengeance, and didn't want news of it's exceptional performance in Burma publicised, probably because it might make him look stupid. Apparently it had the best accuracy of any aircraft used. And was capable of striking effectively at dug in Japanese forces in well constructed trench systems, invulnerable to conventional ground based offence. The Vengeance could drop bombs vertically into the defences.

[@henriyoung3895]

Amazing video. Funny I watch lots of WW2 stuff. I never heard of this plane...well I do have CRS.. so ?

[@ernaniseddon7565]

The Brazilian Air Force received several of them from the USA, and they were used to patrol the Brazilian sea coast, flying mostly against German and Italian submarines

[@phann860]

It took 6 months to take over Madagascar, thank you, these little operations are always ignored.

[@Soph27199]

Why p-51 and not the wildcat or hellcat for Pacific Or even the p-38

[@VIKING-SON]

I grew up in Allentown Pa and in the 1980's I worked on Vultee Street named for that very plain. It was a taxi way for completed aircraft to Queen City airport in Allentown. The Vultee plant became part of Mack Truck after war. Note from what information I have, it took to long to build the plant, and unfortunately no aircraft flew out of it... A real boondoggle and waste of money which benefited none other than Mack Truck corporation later...

[@electronbeam]

It needs to be pointed out that there was a strong bias against air-cooled engines in England, they were thought to be inferior to water cooled engines. The FW190 was a rather rude awakening for the English in this regard.

[@ravenouself4181]

Speaking of forgotten aicraft, I would give like to give the Rogožarski IK-3 a shoutout.

[@Boncked]

So many of the lesser known aircraft did not get the upgrades and modifications needed by most planes to achieve the "great" status afforded to their contemporaries.

[@MO-lc7vb]

Can’t wait to finish this vid

[@malcolmstonebridge7933]

Very effective in Burma, e.g. 84 Squadron RAF.

[@the13xiii52]

I could tell by how conventional the design looked that it was probably a pretty good airplane. Conventional is conventional for a reason. Sure drastically unconventional looking planes like the F-4U Corsair and P-38 come along and are game changers. but often, the new thing doesn’t work as well as thought, or a lot of pilots die figuring out it’s new quirks.

[@RectalRooter]

Who's job was it not to forget all this ?

[@stevelewis7263]

My late father flew these in Burma on 110 Squadron

[@richardw64]

Some very upset people in this comment section. Overall, I give you 8 out of 10. And an extra point because I have never heard of this plane before.

[@loddude5706]

Ironic names? The 1990's Mitsbishi 'Carisma' - the one thing it was completely & utterly devoid of!

[@SCjunk]

Chemical weapon use for the Burma Campaign was to combat the Malaria carrying mosquitos -who as far as I'm aware were not a party to the chemical warfare treaties that officially banned chemical weapons and war gases. Whether the A 31 was the actual rype used in theatre for chemical spraying of Deet I don't know but I can tell you as my father served in theatre the Monsoon didn't curtail operation in 1944 - he having his 21st brithday in July 1944 standing in a slit trench almost chest deep in rain water.

[@drfill9210]

So even though hated- not one lost in combat?

[@fadingjedi]

When I think about the Pacific campaigns in WWII I think of the wildcats and hellcats of the US Navy.

[@PalHBakka]

The USAAF was opposed to dedicated ground attack aircraft. Thus no dive-bombers. The RAF was equally opposed ro tactical aircraft. Thus the use of interceptors in the tactical role.

[@irishrover4658]

If the Japanese had used WMDs then the allies needed to be prepared to react in kind.

[@Stay_at_home_Astronaut81]

The Vengeance was a fine looking aircraft, regardless of its usefulness.

[@jagtone]

Why do you treat the A-31/35 as a potential competitor to the Dauntless? The "A" designation is USAAC/USAAF nomenclature, not USN. You also say nothing about carrier capability. Isn't it more likely that, rather than being surplus to the Dauntless and Helldiver, the Vengeance was the victim of USAAF's known coolness to dedicated dive bombers, having only ordered one, the A-36, in any numbers, and ultimately relying on fighter-bombers to perform the mission.

[@eottoe2001]

Oh my, I didn't know the the Vultee was an American plane!

[@robertsolomielke5134]

TY-Lots of non-US battles in that region, likely why it's so obscure.

[@Amy-r2l]

This was literally the dive bomber as a kid

[@IslandCat97080]

P51 was mostly a European theater plane, not a Pacific theater plane

[@mikearmstrong8483]

The incompetence of the British high command in WWII can only be matched and surpassed by the incompetence of the British high command in WWI.

[@Charles-Windsor88]

The incompetency resulted in Britain being defeated in both wars

[@scootergeorge7089]

When I think of WWI. I think of the first true fighter aircraft, the Eindecker, along with the Camel, and the Spad.

[@Ihaveguitars]

'Vee-She'

[@paulm1365]

Many “famous” battles of WW2 are due to the quirk or luck of a particular unit having a reporter attached or a general or admiral with a penchant of courting the press vs his peers just getting on with the job. Burma, the Russian eastern front, the Northern Pacific, the Slavic states, the Middle East / Persia, New Guinea, air strikes in Norway, etc are all examples of important battles which go unrecognised.

[@justinharris575]

A third of these produced served with the R.A.A.F.

[@geordiedog1749]

Just finished James Holland Burma ‘44. Mentions the Vengeance a bit and always in positive terms. As for it being considered on a par with the Battle!! What moron came to that conclusion? Would have been interesting if there had been a navalised version. The FAA could have done with it although Stringbags could dive bomb and were quite good at it.