Forgotten Victims from the Age of Atrocity

This final lecture will ask why it suits each age to select, reinvent and suppress different parts of the history of religious atrocity
A lecture by Alec Ryrie, Gresham Professor of Divinity
6 May 2020 6:00pm UK Time
www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-an...
Some of the atrocities of the age of Europe’s religious wars immediately became notorious. The execution of tens of thousands of women and men for witchcraft, by contrast, passed largely unremarked - until modern times, when this history was revived, rewritten and wildly exaggerated. This final lecture will ask why it suits each age to select, reinvent and suppress different parts of the history of religious atrocity, and why some victims, such as Anabaptist radicals, remain neglected down to the present.
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[@SamuelJohnUs]

"If your community's identity is built around the unjust sufferings that forebears innocently endured, then you may be inclined to write out the parts of your history which don't fit with your myth, or even to take your own status as persecuted innocence so much for granted that you don't consider the possibility that even sometimes the jackboot may be on the other foot."

[@cullen96]

Favourite part of this lecture is when he assures us that the copy of The Da Vinci Code is not his

[@jasondaveries9716]

That was hilarious

[@lonecandle5786]

I found that hilarious as well.

[@ACShotRun]

44:04

[@demitasse22]

I literally died laughing

[@NuisanceMan]

Perhaps a colleague was burned at the stake for owning a copy.

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

"I'd rather have questions, that can't be answered, than answers, that can'r be questioned." - Richard Feynman.

[@Raydensheraj]

What a great lecture. This is the man I would want to teach Christian history. Thanks for this interesting lecture...

[@michaeltowslee4111]

He can teach any history. Note his strength in presentation. He is one of the finest public speaker I have ever seen. He is one of the few speakers I would call an orator.

[@henryjohnfacey8213]

What a smash lecture. Most of which I never knew. Something that should be taught in schools. I'm a active member of the church of England and have attend Quaker meetings. Thank you for this enlightenment. I shall keep this lecture it's that important.

[@owenllewellyn5692]

I stumbled across this lecture and was gripped within the first few minutes. A brilliant presentation about a truly terrifying aspect of European history that is still rippling through society today. Please sir, I want some more!

[@robertgrantham9103]

"Pursuit of an unnatural crime without regard for natural justice"? That was simply brilliant doc! Kudos from an academic admirer across the pond!

[@gwaptiva]

There are multiple Dutch language expressions, still relatively common, going back on Jan Beukelszoon van Leiden, all playing on the idea that his reign as king of Sion/Muenster was both brief and unsuccessful

[@OktoberFilms]

Another lecture, another eye opener. Did you know that you have become my favourite youtuber? Bet you didn’t even know you had that ambition. Thank you and keep them coming.

[@Whomoon11]

As always your lectures are a treasure. Thank you for uploading this.

[@juanfervalencia]

I deeply admire Professor Ryrie

[@dabedwards]

The best TV history lecturer since A.J.P. Taylor. Who else could hold your attention on an apparently dusty topic for an hour with so little in the way of visuals (or worse, "reconstructions")?

[@Mrch33ky]

Another excellent lecture in the series. Thank you!

[@enzomarrone2472]

Fantastic. Very illuminating. Thank you professor

[@samizdatbroadcasts7654]

24:48 to 25:15 is deeply profound, and is as urgent a lesson for our time as it was for this centuries passed era of religious persecution.

[@emmcee662]

So easy to listen to and so very interesting. Thank you

[@ukaszgrzesik7231]

Thank you. That was great lecture!

[@SamuelJohnUs]

"[The Penndel witches and other symbolic martyrs] don't owe us anything. Nor would they recognize the many ways that we've used their memory. If we want to claim that memory, then I hope we can at least try to remember THEM, rather than merely invent them, to suit ourselves. Perhaps even, we might be able to let them rest in peace."

[@Cmr_5vifail]

My liking for history has grown multifold after listening these videos ,my one dream to have such intellectual level lectures in Ancient Histories as well

[@aladdin91056]

Excellent and enjoyable. Thank you

[@telemarkaeology]

"... an all-Mennonite squadron in the Waffen SS." I'm... agog. This is a bit of history I have never heard. I'm going to need to chat with my Mennonite pastor friend.

[@ShankarSivarajan]

The correct conclusion is that not all German soldiers, not even all SS soldiers, were evil, and that Stalin (and his allies) might have been worse than the Germans, but I expect you won't draw it.

[@stevenbrown6277]

Very interesting lecture. I learned so much. Thank you.

[@Fenristhegreat]

That was a really beautiful end.

[@talldarkhansome1]

Very clear. Thank you!

[@richardgalea9884]

Interesting lecture....Thank you.

[@vanessaharry4750]

You know what ! That was brilliant thank you

[@jesusalvarez-cedron6581]

Fantastic lecture

[@btnewberg]

Excellent lecture. A footnote on modern witchcraft among Neo-Pagans would be appropriate. Wicca is one variety, though there are others. Most of them use "witch" as equally applicable to males and females alike. Plenty repeat the 9 million burned number, but just as many acknowledge its inaccuracy.

[@CrabeVideos]

Really enjoyed this one. The ending was great!

[@ontariochurchstories7276]

The world needs a Menno Simons biopic.

[@louistracy6964]

Thanks for this.

[@james.t.herman]

These are fascinating lectures. I would be interested to hear Dr. Ryrie's thoughts on the relationship of Christian history in the UK to the Christian East. For example, I'm familiar with an essay that demonstrates how early Christian monasticism in Ireland closely follows the rites of Egyptian monks. While there is no historical record of it, it seems most likely that the founders of Irish monasticism must have traveled to Egypt, or possibly the southern Levant, to learn their practice. In our time, Bishop Kallistos Ware has been a prominent Orthodox bishop and writer. I wonder how the Church of England receives the eastern doctrine of theosis, for example.

[@alstrehli9402]

Thank you!

[@SidheKnight]

Who here thinks that Prof. Ryrie looks like an older, British John Green?

[@jonadams8841]

Dr Ryrie: Beautifully done. Gave me a whole new insight into the past. I'm glad some have begun to own the term "witch", as it's a powerful concept (as your recount of its history has shown) and one that must be taken away from authoritarians. And those who suffered and lost their lives due to this insanity - I mourn for them.

[@maggieadams8600]

Yes, thank you so much for this, because it's so often been misrepresented to me; always in fact up until this point, but the truth resonates and makes sense to me. It's odd because so often I've been caught up in, and almost accused of agreeing with, the burning of witches because I was reading the New Testament. It's a funny old world in a not very funny way, has been for ages, literally. It's sad to see that children are being accused of witchcraft, and suffering the consequences now in parts of Africa.

[@kaarlimakela3413]

The accusation of witchcraft then reminds me of broken taillights on cars today ... an excuse so you can be messed with by authority It was a way to control women individually. It was a thing you could use as a threat. Women who had attractive coveted tracts of land might get accused and ruined, to someone else's profit.

[@Johnnycdrums]

Until now I mixed up Maronite with Mennonite. Didn't know of the Mennonites.

[@amywas1]

The stock exchange of victimhood. Kudos Paul Eisen and Norm Finkelstein

[@clairerobsin]

@22:49 ...We do not Love our Enemies, but We do Love our Fellow Man

[@stephenpowstinger733]

The only place the Quakers were truly free was in the colony of Pennsylvania, which was also a refuge of Anabaptists. @19:00 . The town of Sarasota Florida is also a refuge to this day for Anabaptist Mennonites and perhaps a few Amish, though you don’t see the trademark horse-and-buggies. Scads of bicycles and three-wheelers, many electrified, are seen about.

[@budgibson185]

Why are non of these in order? And how do,we go about making the list appear correctly

[@mrs.cracker4622]

Connecticut's witch trials were 30 years before Salem's and very similar.

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

Yes, protestant atrocities.

[@billynomates920]

someone has to lower the tone and so i ask: is an atrocity still an atrocity if it has been thoroughly earned and if so, is it an atrocity for those that endlessly asked for it or for those who reluctantly implemented it? i've heard it mentioned on other, less salubrious websites that mr chippy wants to take his colourful chum to feed the fish.

[@bim-ska-la-bim4433]

*stands*. *applauds*

[@johnpanos2332]

was it voltaire who said something like those that believe in absurdities can commit atrocities?

[@cuscof2]

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Yes, it was Voltaire

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Yes, Voltaire, who inspired the French revolution, that famously not at all absurd and thoroughly peaceful episode.

[@catholiccrusader5328]

I can't understand for the life of me why educated people continue to refer to Dan Brown's 'Da Vinci Codes' as a vital source of scholarship when in fact if you would examine this book closely most if not a large portion of Brown's works are saturated with anti-Catholicism, historical inaccuracies and his personal prejudices. Brown's works are by and large bogus. I love these lectures but I feel it is my duty to make voice my opinions and or corrections whenever I deem necessary.

[@HkFinn83]

Never ever have I heard anybody do that. What are you referring to? I’ve only ever heard Browns writing mocked.

[@benoplustee]

He said "best seller", and then took apart the book briefly exactly along those lines. He agrees with you lol

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

Your right, but it was a best seller. That will tell you the mentality of his readers (one of which I'm not).

[@socdologer]

This lecture is a tour-de-force.

[@rflameng]

Bearing in mind that the TOTAL population of the world was significantly less than 1.000 million until about 1800, the suggestion that 9.000.000 women could have been executed in Western Europe alone over a few centuries without leaving a trace, is quite ludicrous. But people are all too willing to believe information that confirms their prejudices.

[@mikecain6947]

What would you do in countries where body parts harvested from the living are used for "sorcery?" Should this be illegal or nonsense?

[@stefanb6539]

Assault and battery is a felony and a crime. When it is systematically done to a specific group of people, it is a hate crime. The distinction whether it is associated with a belief in "sorcery" or not, is in itself nonsense, although the belief of the perpetrator, that they could gain a material or otherwise personal advantage by committing the crime, by either selling the parts or using them in ritual to empower themselves, would inform about an ulterior motif.

[@mikecain6947]

@@stefanb6539 The reply to this would not be politically correct so I will not reply. Sorcery is oftentimes now and in the past killing and not nonsense.

[@irateofwatford]

@@mikecain6947 First, had an offence been committed according to law? If they had been found guilty of one or more crimes according to due process of law, then the guilty person(s) should face the weight of the law. It depends on the penal code in place at the time and at that particular location, and subject extenuating circumstances, if any. That's what jurisprudence is all about.

[@mikecain6947]

@@stefanb6539 What if the practice of sorcery is not illegal?

[@mikecain6947]

@@irateofwatford What if sorcery is legal and illegal?

[@guytouquet]

History repeats itself in Kiev. Not Protestant, but similarly brutal.

[@paulhenryangus5638]

Professor Ryrie's series on religious atrocity is startlingly subversive. He follows the logic of the believing mind to its chilling conclusions. Alternating compassion and dispassion, he makes the folly appear normal and necessary. This is not about butchers and victims. It is about highly structured minds behaving in obedience with their sincerely held inner convictions.

[@funDAYsmiling]

Persecution of Catholics goes on in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England to this day, although it just looks different, as slavery looks different today than it did 200 years ago, but still goes on even though it’s illegal.

[@patrickmartinez6297]

Could you elaborate on this?

[@funDAYsmiling]

Modem “Witches,” are now “reptile people.”

[@jasondaveries9716]

Interesting thought, looking forward to the lizard people trials of the 2040s

[@carnivaltym]

Liberals perhaps? Certainly, by some anyway.

[@nwogamesalert]

Modern witches are those who question the government(s) supported virus narrative and who refuse to comply to have needles containing experimental "medicine" pushed into their arms.

[@NotAPacifist825]

"sometimes the jackboot may be on the other foot", a lesson for the current Israeli government. 25:00

[@adrianthomas1473]

You need to learn some history - to say that because you would not swear an oath means that no one could do business with you is false. The Quakers would not swear oaths and yet were very active in business - their word was trusted and there was no need for an oath - my word is my bond. So as an example Quakers were involved in banking and manufacturing . Also you need to remember that the Romanist world was also divided and was as quarrelsome as the Protestant world - there are many example of divisions in the Papalist camp.

[@owenllewellyn5692]

Cite your sources... and watch his other lectures, you might find he covers your claims in depth and with much greater insight.

[@adrianthomas1473]

@@owenllewellyn5692 there were many divisions in Romanism - look at Fenelon / Bousset controversy, look at the divisions over Quietism, look at Avignon papacy, look at suppression of Jesuits. My objection to this and other talks is that Romanism is presented in the best light possible and the Reformers are presented as badly as possible. In reality there were problems on both sides.

[@chrisball3778]

He is literally an expert on the history of Protestant Christianity. Even if you disagree with his conclusions or feel he has omitted something important, then I'm pretty sure he's still forgotten more about history than you or I have ever read. He was talking about the 16th century at that point- before the Quaker movement had even begun. Even after they were well-established, they were regarded as pariahs by many other Christians for a long time- they didn't become widely respected in business until much later. He actually discusses that exact subject in this very lecture, and it was a major part of another in the series.

[@stefanb6539]

@@adrianthomas1473 I don't doubt your facts, but your need to preface them with an utterly condescending phrase like "You need to learn some history" makes you appear petty and untrustworthy. "Do some riisurch, sheeples!" is usually the battle cry of the most moronic and myoptic voices on the net.

[@ShankarSivarajan]

@@stefanb6539 Yeah, everyone knows "sheeple" is already plural.

[@annasfischer]

Mormons believe in multiple baptisms over the course of a lifetime, though their status as Christians could be debated.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

I thought the Mormons practiced intercessory baptism for others, and one baptism for themselves. Do they not?

[@annasfischer]

@@ShaneyElderberry They do practice intercessionary baptism, but they also practice multiple personal baptisms.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

@@annasfischer I see. At what points of their lives do they perform baptisms (plural) for themselves?

[@annasfischer]

@@ShaneyElderberry They do it for important religious life events such as marriage, or to show a rededication to their faith. The first rebaptisms were after the Mormons arrived in Utah. Also I was not being snarky when I said their status as Christians could be debated. They don't keep the Nicene Creed, or see Jesus as unique, and see all humans as capable of achieving godhood. So sociologically, they are absolutely Christian, and specifically an outgrowth of American Protestantism, but theologically, their status is more debatable.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

@@annasfischer This is very interesting. Where might I find the theological writing behind their dogmas? I have not heard of the marriage baptism before. The point about not worshipping Christ in the traditional sense seems quickly countered by their practice in taking a sacrament (Transubstantiation).

[@mikecain6947]

What does Leviticus 20:27 mean?

[@mikecain6947]

@Michelle Staunton Explain please.

[@matehavlik4559]

"If your community's identity is built around the unjust sufferings that your forbearers innocently endured, then you may be inclined to write out the parts of history which don't fit with your myth, or even take your state of persecuted innocence so much for granted, that you don't consider the possibility that sometime the jackboot may be on the other foot." Holocaust-worship, anyone?

[@g.v.3493]

I had heard that there were more men than women killed in the witch trials. Is this true?(facts only please!)

[@chrisball3778]

No its not true at all. Most of the victims of witch trials were women. Approximately 80%, as far as can be determined from available records. I have no idea who told you they were mostly men- even when the phenomenon was less well studied there was still a general awareness that women were targeted more often.

[@stefanb6539]

It was true only for some scandinavian countries. If you look at the whole of Europe it is false.

[@renemeyer2602]

But only men were put to death for sodomy in this time period. We are not talking about small numbers here. Some of these men would have been actually guilty of raping of men, boys or animals. But being burned alive still seems a little too extreme as a punishment.

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

The calvinists of Switzerland killed between 100,000 and 150,000 women in their witch hunts.

[@PavelSedlak]

The total number of victims of the witch-hunt in early modern Europe is between 50 thousand and 100 thousand.

[@opiniondiscarded6650]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition

[@7ebr830]

If rescuing the pursuer meant that he was captured by the other pursuers, that means he could have continued on his way and the chap in the water would have been rescued by the others. Possibly, this would have delayed them long enough that his date with death-by-fire (!!) 🔥 might have been permanently postponed. There's chivalry and self-sacrifice, then there's dumb.

[@michaeltowslee4111]

Maybe

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Not nessercerily. How would he know where his pursuers were and what they would do? More reasonably, they might have stayed off the ice, seeing that it was weak, while he was already on it.

[@ianbeddowes5362]

There is absolutely no authority or traceable reference for the saying attributed to Stalin. So far, this man has been careful about his references. By being so loose he undermines his own credibility.

[@KarakNornClansman]

No. He does mention this in at least one earlier lecture. Not doing so all the time might be a mistake, but also understandable since it slims down the time taken by the pertinent line.

[@HkFinn83]

Hes a professional historian. Enough with the Richard Dawkins cosplaying.

[@manfredconnor3194]

9 million or 9000 seems like apologetics to me. They were still murdered weren't they?

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

The difference is the difference between truth and falsehood.

[@manfredconnor3194]

​@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts If you mean the differce between 9000 and 9 million, you've missed the point.

[@clairerobsin]

Suffering as I am under 'Lockdown' here in Vancouver, Canada I'm sure you will forgive me for not 'Sharing' this video :O)

[@Raydensheraj]

Tyrannical to the core...

[@FiveLiver]

43:27 There is an implication here that Donald Trump's use of the term 'witch hunt' to describe one or other of the many false accusations against him is not 'respectable'. Trump may be hyperbolic but there is a factual basis in his assertion.

[@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry]

In what universe? The accusations against him that are true are sufficient to condemn him as unfit for the presidency. These far outweigh those that are false, and any politician in the 21st century who does not expect and cannot intelligently refute false accusations when made has chosen the wrong profession.

[@FiveLiver]

@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry There was a three year 'Russian collusion' investigation about something that never happened, and consequently nothing was discovered. It was a completely invented accusation without any basis in fact. If that isn't a witch hunt, what is? [Meanwhile Biden is up to his eyeballs with the Chinese Communist party and 'nothing to see here move along' from the same people.] Perhaps you could tell us about the true accusations against Trump you believe in.

[@chrisball3778]

If there was really no criminality in the Trump campaign, then the number of people within it proven to have lied to the FBI would be somewhat surprising. Rather than having been victimised by a court that worked from a presumption of guilt, Trump has benefitted from being shielded from further prosecution by the constitution and his allies in congress, and he has utilised his position to pardon many of the people convicted for crimes they committed whilst acting as his agents. That is almost the exact opposite of a 'witch hunt.'

[@philipwest4553]

Baptist happens when "a priest sprinkles you with water and mumbles a few words in Latin"? What a biased and insulting way to express this. It's a shame for one purporting to lecture about history to choose such biased and undignified language.

[@chrisball3778]

He was talking about how 16th century Anabaptists saw infant baptism, not expressing his own opinion on the rite. His Wikipedia page says he's a lay reader in the Church of England- i.e. a committed member of a church that practices infant baptism, so I'm fairly confident he doesn't share their views on the matter.

[@jackmcnally9237]

Try Thomas Sasz's "The Manufacture of Madness ". Read all about the awfulness still extant unto this now secular age of false religiosity and it's results . James the first of England ( vi ) o ' Scotland wrote a horrifying 😳 expose of Witchcraft, which still resonates ,indeed reverberates like ever - rolling thunder today !