Engineering Adaptability and the NFA: Lage Max11/15 System

[@Deedeedee137]

I think the vein of things you've been covering that are basically products that only exist to take advantage of existing registered machine gun receivers is pretty fascinating

[@barttorbert5031]

I can see this being done for semi-auto pistols. But I am not sure that would gain much. The thing that makes this technology of value is turning a joke full auto gun into a usable full auto gun.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Agreed, I'm not actually that interested in guns, but the engineering is interesting, and the engineering of these workaround the law type gun adaptations are even more interesting than normal.

[@Deedeedee137]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 I think more than anything they're fascinating as reflections of our culture and the time we live in. The engineering is very interesting too but in many ways these are just like really weird things

[@MrSolLeks]

I would also say things like binary triggers and forced reset are as well. All items that only exist due to laws

[@Deedeedee137]

@@MrSolLeks those cursed ar15 pistols that are like really heavily skeletonized too. Also nice avi lmao did you see there's a new one in the works

[@onebladeprop]

As the owner of a fine example of a MAC M-10 I am offended that Ian called it useless. It makes a fantastic paperweight or doorstop. And occasionally it will spray bullets in the general direction I point it.

[@beltfedTODDRULZ]

with a big can on the front and a decent stock M10s can still be practical...... that said I love my Lage Max31

[@onebladeprop]

@@beltfedTODDRULZ I have an SWD 9mm. They zytel mags a garbage but with converted pam-2 mags it runs great. Bone stock I can keep a mag dump on a silhouette at 10yrd. Not amazing but it is fun.

[@beltfedTODDRULZ]

@@onebladeprop , I got a M10/9 Fat Mac and i have a STEN mag housing/ grip with a big steel paddle release and bought a good pile of mags. Runs great but i wanted a slow rate of fire and a Red dot and Lage delivers that

[@AJoe-ze6go]

The one use case I've heard of that actually makes sense is close quarters assassination. So, yeah - essentially useless.

[@beltfedTODDRULZ]

@@AJoe-ze6go back in the good ole days they offered an "Operational Breifcase" where the subgun and can were disguised in a breifcase with a lever hooked to the trigger for executive protection etc...

[@redbyrd64]

“Don’t drop this, or the spring will shoot across the room.” Sounds like the voice of experience.

[@tackytrooper]

Every AR guy knows this struggle

[@Wetcorps]

Having springs from rare, priceless guns shoot accross the room must be the most nerve racking part about Ian's job.

[@erict3728]

He knows. He's admitted a few times to doing it off camera and putting it partially back together in a way so it won't shoot across the room for the recorded disassembly

[@nickoloes]

"Sproing"

[@CittizinKane]

The noise of buying a new spring, or buying a new assembly if there’s any little plastic bits in the spring assembly 🙃

[@Reijack]

As my shop teacher used to say "Necessity is the mother of invention, but Scarcity is its father"

[@andersjjensen]

I shall henceforth be known as The Stealer of Expressions of Shop Teachers of Random KZbin Commenters :P

[@lindboknifeandtool]

Laziness is the new god of invention.

[@matthewspencer5086]

Next week: The "Ivel" brand belt-fed machine gun built around a pre-1986 US-manufactured bicycle frame. If Dan Albone were still alive, this would have actually happened.

[@106640guy]

I hope it cycles well

[@Spartan9177]

@@106640guy 🤣

[@Corywinget81]

@@106640guy ba dum tiss

[@justindunlap1235]

With ambidextrous cranks

[@n9086s]

I have owned Lage conversions foe M10 & M11 for many years and found them to be of excellent quality as well as their service. He turned a piece of worthless folded sheet metal into a valuable firearm that is fun to shoot. Thank you to Richard and Jackie.

[@pygmyowl8801]

This is getting close to that scene in Naked Gun where Drebin's partner converts his pistol into a cannon.

[@livingcorpse5664]

I love that, while exaggerated in Naked Gun, such crazy conversions for guns exist. Its such a video game thing to do except its real life. Its part of why the VP70 was put in Resident Evil 2 back in 1998, and a lot of gamers were surprised to later learn the stock attachment that turns it into a burst fire gun was real and not just made up.

[@chrisE815]

If only the officers at the ATF were half as skilled as OJ Simpson.

[@matthayward7889]

All I needed to know about Lage was when he made a fully functional M41a pulse rifle. Legend.

[@crazyhorsemusx7767]

Beat me to it :) The ammo counter worked too! The shroud and “grenade launcher” heat cage looked really close to the hero pulse rifle. I didn’t like the grip…IMHO if he could have made the grip/lower look more like the Thompson lower receiver that wild have been amazing! It was cool how he used the coffin mags with pulse rifle mag bases for his pulse rifle build! One thing I am curious about as how they made the grenade launcher cage aka spas 12 heat cage. That’s always the hardest component to find when building a Pulse rifle.

[@matthayward7889]

@@crazyhorsemusx7767 I’d forgotten about the ammo counter!

[@tomgreen4520]

Your wife operates my pulse rifle when you're not home

[@WrathOfTheGoth]

For those that haven't seen it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/joWcYYywha6bjKc

[@matthayward7889]

@@WrathOfTheGoth thank you!

[@davidgreen40]

The unchanged MAC-10/11/11A1 has a specific military use. Per a non-commissioned officer in the 22nd SAS, the entire MAC series was “… designed to kill a room full of colonels on the instant of break in.”

[@10mmlover]

There was a video out of Brazil I think about 6 months ago where a drive by levels a group of rival gang members in a second or 2 with one of these types of crazy high rate of fire guns. They do have their purpose albeit limited.

[@HALO-2304]

A former boss of mine, who was former Army, said it was good for "sweeping crunchies off the tanks".

[@Scardpelt]

@generikuser so eloquently stated

[@blackcountryme]

In the UK years ago (2003), some "Gang members" got hold of a few MAC-10's and machine gunned a new years Eve party. They found a couple of the guns, the reward for the remaining ones are still active I think.. just pray and spray... and kill

[@jacobmccandles1767]

@@blackcountryme and there was the victims, left with nothing to meet the threat with but pleading and prayer.

[@t4nkychannel921]

You've heard of the Ship of Theseus, now get ready for the Gun of Theseus!

[@lolgamer1073]

well for the us its clear, as long as the receiver is the same, its the same gun, if you put everything from a gun onto another receiver, its a different gun for them

[@dallebull]

"My trigger is allowed to auto pew so i built another gun around it"

[@tackytrooper]

It's funny because it's true

[@ScottKenny1978]

Basically, yes.

[@hypethekomodo6495]

MAC-11: "This is fit only for combat in a phone booth." Lage Max11/15: "You'd be lucky to FIT this in a phone booth."

[@ekscalybur]

Everybody under 35: WTF is a phone booth???

[@cericat]

Your first challenge today, much like Superman, is finding a phone booth.

[@strelnagaming]

​@@ekscalybur i just turned 17 today, i have known what a phone booth is for like forever Not every younger person is an ignorant idiot

[@ekscalybur]

@@strelnagaming Why would someone born decades after phone booths disappeared be an idiot for not knowing what they are?

[@strelnagaming]

@@ekscalybur there is a trend of older people associating the younger generation as being stupid and ignorant And also a trend for many people in my generation to follow that stereotype, unfortunately At least thats how it appears online, most of the people i know, while definitely partaking in some of the weirder things of gen z, are fairly intelligent and have a good understanding of the world Although i do live in rural Alaska, where older technology is still fairly prevalent, and i grew up on old television shows and movies

[@lunathecrusader]

Finally… the gun I used to draw as a kid

[@joevalle2630]

Lollll for real. Good eye. 👍

[@alexm566]

@@joevalle2630 it's a standard comment on 69.420% of Ian's videos

[@joevalle2630]

@@alexm566 yeah but this is THEE gun to draw when ur really trying to draw a M16/m4 /AR

[@iDork56]

As a tinkerer and DIY Enthusiast, I love seeing professional works that takes an existing object and completely take it in a different direction. The amount of effort it takes to creatively think about what issues said object has and how to get remedy those issues, all while making it work reliably is insanely cool. Props to Lage for creating such a unique and iconic design to reuse surplus hardware!

[@lordDenis16]

A book on weapon designs that came about purely because of restrictive laws would be an interesting project 🤔 just throwing the idea out there - dont feel pressured Ian

[@ninus17]

i agree, i think it would be a good topic for a future book

[@cooper10182]

Hell, one could make a book on California-compliant designs alone. Throw in the various gadgets that sprang up from them. (i.e. the AR stripper clips for cali AR's)

[@atomic_wait]

'From Loophole to Workaround'

[@zacharyrollick6169]

Boston T. Party's Gun Bible was a book on loopholes in the Assault Weapons Ban. Interesting read.

[@ENCHANTMEN_]

I wish we could get more sensible gun laws. We have two political camps, one who wants no restrictions whatsoever and one who wants as many restrictions as possible, and whoever currently has the advantage will pass as much stuff as they possibly can. The end result is that we have gun laws that are both way too permissive in some ways while also having bizarre nonsensical restrictions on stuff that doesn't matter.

[@MrKronikDeception]

I'm almost surprised he developed a new recoil system instead of using something similar to the AR-18.

[@CaptainGrief66]

There likely wasn't enough space in the receiver for guide rods and a bushing for them, the bolt also needed to keep the necessary mass to make the action smooth without the longer spring and buffer of the AR-15 system

[@sodneymvlin7715]

ATF requires the recoil spring to work off of the lower receiver like the original upper. If he designed it differently it probably would have been denied for legal production.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

@@sodneymvlin7715 false. The fire control group and registered receiver are all that matter. ATF couldn't deny them. As an engineer my best guess is that this is more simple and reliable. Plus the 15 has better recognition.

[@wrathmachine7609]

@@CaptainGrief66 There couldve been space if Lage designed it differently. They seem to have designed an upper than can both fit the Mac lower AND AR15 BCG

[@ChevTecGroup]

@@EnthalpyAndEntropy that's not necessarily true. If they say the upper is also a firearm, then they won't allow it to be used on a transferable lower. Examples are: BRP XMG upper, RPD belt fed for MACs, m249 clones that take HK trigger groups. All of these are examples where the ATF said not. There are more examples but these are some easy ones to find.

[@jh8434]

Dont know how i missed this video when it came out? No matter constantly looking for videos

[@NamelocTheBard]

I unironically like the look of these and provided that there are still MAC 10/11 receivers available when I finally get the cash for one, I'm seriously considering it.

[@apeshitcrazyman]

Not many around anymore. It's sad, there were thousands in the mix 5-10 years ago. And those few that are available, go up in value thousands of $ every year🤦‍♂️

[@marekh.4497]

As non-American this really humors me because of the lengths ppl go to avoid the gun laws however as an egineer, I'm really impressed by this cheeky clever, design

[@sheldoniusRex]

Love to see the engineering. Repeal the NFA.

[@anionleader]

Apparently not going to render Hughes null and void from what I've read and been informed of. Hughes must go in its entirety at the very least.

[@sheldoniusRex]

@@anionleader if the NFA is gone, there is no registry. Hughes is void because the thing it references no longer exists.

[@anionleader]

@@sheldoniusRex At face value yes, that should be the direct outcome but apparently not the case, because the wording is a blanket, even if the registry didn't exist, because even in the theoretical future where the NFA is gone but Hughes still stays, even if your civvie legal say, select fire MP7A2 should transfer and sell like a prior Title One gun, it can't be because Hughes still stands and it says "no new machine guns past May 1986, NO IFS OR BUTS".

[@comderbob]

@@anionleader What you've read is correct but incomplete in that it won't be voided but it does become a pointless section of law. The Hughes Amendment only closes the machine gun registry to new machine guns being registered after May 1986. The NFA requires you to register a machine gun onto the registry. If there's no requirement to register machine guns then the Hughes amendment might still exist but it doesn't matter at that point.

[@sheldoniusRex]

@@anionleader that isn't actually the wording, though.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Lage Mfg has been doing awesome things with the Mac/ Uzi and Suomi platforms, saw them originally when they made the Alien Marine Rifle, just cool stuff!

[@scottflickinger4186]

It'd be cool if they offered the colonial marine configuration.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

@@scottflickinger4186 Would cost a pretty penny, but yeah that would be amazing hah

[@Genevasuggestions1]

Make it feed from a belt and a QD barrel and you got a SAW basically.

[@sharpkniveinlatvian1746]

That thing looks like if 9yo me tried to draw an AR-15 from memory.

[@Appalachia_Ape]

Been waiting for this since one of the Q&A thumbnails featured a Lage rig. Did not disappoint. God damn I love this channel.

[@ShowaEraGaijin]

As somebody who happens to have purchased (and still own) a registered MAC-10 on May 23, 1986, I find this development highly interesting. Nice to know that it works with standard AR magazines, barrels, and bolts so I can change the caliber to something I prefer over the 5.56mm.

[@MartinsMachines]

It might be worth noting that the internal recoil mechanism (IRM) for the m11/9 also uses a standard AR bolt carrier group like the external recoil mechanism for the m11/9. At least mine does. I believe the custom bcg for the m11-a1 is because of the shorter receiver. It wouldn’t surprise me if the m11-a1 external recoil mechanism upper used a proprietary bolt as well (again due to the shorter receiver) but I have not seen one to confirm. Also the M10 uppers may or may not use a proprietary bolt but again, I haven’t seen any yet to confirm. Also, instead of using a brass rod to hook the IRM into the bolt for disassembly (as shown in the video) you can simply insert a unloaded 9mm magazine into to magwell while the bolt is back. This makes disassembly much easier and a much simpler process to adhere to. Disassembling the IRM is actually quite easy once you get used to it and can be completed in less than a minutes time

[@gunsgearoutdoorsalaska5875]

I have shot one of these, you can tell its a workaround from the strange handling (long length of pull and very forward magazine) but still really fun and pretty controllable from the shoulder.

[@garymoore8711]

I really appreciate Ian's ability to explain the workings of a weapon so that lay people like me can understand how it works.

[@J.DeLaPoer]

Ian's good for that. Not that most guns are difficult to conceptualize, at least not simple blowback subguns like this, but he demonstrates a mastery of firearms that's above most self-professed experts here (and indeed well above many official, academically and/or government accredited so-called "experts", whom I won't name). As someone or other wise once said, "You never truly understand anything until you can explain it to a five year old". I don't know about that, but I have seen 8 year olds watch some of his other videos on more complex arms and grasp the concept afterwards. That's half the reason he's been as successful as he is. That and the fact he's down to earth, no-nonsense, no-BS, no 5-minute long intros, no begging for us to SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON AND SUBSCRIBE!!!!!!!111, no content padding, and none of that godawful, phony, aggressively friendly bro "personality" that most "content creators" have adopted, along with jump-cuts every 2 seconds, because they must appeal to kids with the attention span of goldfish. Nor does he bring in politics or any other crap. I don't mean to asskiss at all by the way, just that a person who is actually intelligent, knowledgeable in his field, and down to earth without the phony personality or pandering for views is quite the rare thing these days.

[@RaquelFoster]

5:06 It's hilarious/awesome how many years this channel has been making videos with the crazy pulsing shadows you get from leaving everything in "automatic" mode on the camera then waving your hands around.

[@alec_f1]

Thanks Ian, for telling everyone about this so the MAC systems go up in price. Their old slow fire rate uppers for .45 and 9mm were genius and fun as hell as well.

[@jameswoods7276]

That's just brilliance. Pure brilliance. Internal recoil system is a bit fiddly to take apart and put back together but really it's not bad. Mac pistols were let's all admit it pretty worthless before this conversion.

[@johneden2033]

@@FurnishedIgloo "Worthless" in the sense of practicality and application. These guns only cost a couple hundred dollars when they were sold pre-1986. You ever shoot a MAC10/M11? I have, and they're comically impractical. You have a tiny machinepistol with no front grip and it's spitting out bullets at 1000+ rpm; wildly uncontrollable. The only time it had any practical use was when it had that giant suppressor/handguard made for it, as seen in various 80s and 90s movies. People even during the guns' production critizied it for not having any real use.

[@WastelandWanderer1216]

@@FurnishedIgloo A MAC Machine Pistol has such a high rate of fire it's practically near uncontrollable. That's part of the reason I consider the Glock 18 as a worthless POS. At least this is making the MAC series usable.

[@Aliyah_666]

@@WastelandWanderer1216 I disagree..at close quarters it's lethal for sure to anyone you point it at. 1200 rounds per minute at less than 10 yards will certainly kill some people in a small space if not force them to move to avoid being hit. Cqb is where it's uses end.

[@justinkase1360]

I don't think Ian is saying they were worthless before this particular conversion. He is saying that Lage is responsible for products that have made them useful, referring to PREVIOUS uppers and parts as well. I happen to have M11s and don't completely agree, nor disagree. The type of guns ARE NOT great stock, but there was an aftermarket before Lage. I don't think the RPM alone makes them completely useless and I found them plenty accurate at typical indoor ranges if I used a red dot(surprisingly). That said, I do mainly shoot them with a Lage slow fire upper or tungsten bolts these days and Lage does make great products, with great customer support.

[@sgthop]

@@Aliyah_666 That and the G18 is fundamentally a superior weapon in very many aspects. The fact that it fits in a standard holster and is actually a quality firearm puts it leagues ahead of the MAC weapons, which were awkward and difficult to use.

[@tomtruesdale6901]

Mac M-10/M-11s were great at wasting a bunch of ammo at 1200 rpm. BUT they looked cool in movies. This weapons system looks like a very well done upgrade

[@konstantinseliadtsou9869]

Looks pretty wierd but the fact that is based on a mac 11 is amazing

[@commoncriminal923]

Mac 11 doesn't exist

[@konstantinseliadtsou9869]

@@commoncriminal923 Of course it does

[@mikehipperson]

@@commoncriminal923 Tell gun Jesus that!

[@commoncriminal923]

@@konstantinseliadtsou9869 no its the m11

[@commoncriminal923]

@@mikehipperson with pleasure, he's already clarified himself.

[@Andreas-ov2fv]

This is probably the most amazing example of the concept of "rules lawyering" I've ever seen.

[@umbertomclovin]

great to see this video. my lage has been collecting dust for 4 years in the back of my safe. pulling it out now!

[@AxeMan808]

When you lifted up the source my mind spun around inside my skull cave. I can see it in the kit now. I had no idea!!

[@chrisperrien7055]

I like how it gives the finger to a "Bull-Pup" design, more than the ins and outs of the FOPA

[@SouthCoastTargets]

at the 2019 SAR show in phx, i got to talk with richard lage for about 30 min, really cool dude.... i Intorduced myself by saying "so you're the man who single-handedly tripled the price of MACs" he chuckled and casually said "i dont even argue it anymore" we both had a good laugh.

[@535tony]

I just got the Lage Max10/45 upper for my Jersey Arms M10/45 clone. Lage makes some amazing uppers for these guns.

[@randomidiot8142]

A square profile bolt carrier with AR-18 style dual recoil springs would have been just as easy to do as what Lage did, since he is not limited by the confines of a standard AR-15 upper. Edit: a long recoil AK style carrier and gas system would also make it a lot easier to fit a conventional recoil spring in there. Still cool.

[@peteranderson037]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm assuming that the reason why Lage didn't go this route was because there wasn't a ready supply of relatively inexpensive AR-18 parts that could be used when the project started. Perhaps with the Brownells BRN-180 being a thing now, maybe there will be a Max11/18 in the future.

[@randomidiot8142]

@@peteranderson037 a new gas key with the guides for the rods and springs on the side would have been relatively simple too. Was thinking about it more after I posted. Now I want to try making one because I don't think I've seen it on the other iterations of receiver extension spring elimination setups.

[@scottflickinger4186]

I'm sure there is a reason Lage did it the way he did it. I'm no engineer, so I'm just gonna go along with his design.

[@felixchaus]

@@scottflickinger4186 It might be as simple as patent rights.

[@Pladshirtman1924]

“This use to be a machine pistol, a MAC 10 or a MAC 11” I’m both sickened yet curious at the same time… continue gun Jesus

[@jarink1]

The nice part is that you could easily convert back to the original in under a minute. (at least, the version without the buffer tube)

[@andersjjensen]

@@jarink1 Uh, you can convert the sproingy version into a Mac 10 in under a minute... but going the other way might involve locating the spring somewhere three counties over...

[@cleidsonaraujopeixoto163]

Just in! Seems like an interesting rifle when everything is in place, if one asks me.

[@codymansfield7358]

I’ve been waiting for this video for idk how long. Ever sense you personally talked about getting one. The Suomi mag fed is also awesome.

[@PeterNissen878112]

Really looking forward to the range session!

[@Richard-wz9uh]

Not to take anything away from Richard Lage, who is a mechanical genius, but this just highlights the idiocy of the NFA. From a citizens standpoint we have to gerrymander our firearms to conform to the NFA. It would just be so much better to swap a fire control group out than to buy a MAC and put this upper on it. From the governments standpoint they have to pay BATFE officials to approve parts and accessories. This just adds more unnecessary cogs in the wheel of beurocracy. . The end result is the same. Citizens get fully automatic weapons but by way of a horribly inefficient process. Rant over. Thanks Ian. Your expertise is always exciting.

[@Bacteriophagebs]

But the "machineguns" are all registered, so if someone uses one for a crime, they can easily be caught! Unless the gun was just illegally modified or brought in from Mexico, of course, but it's not like criminals would ever do those things, right? /sarc Technically it's the Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 1986 that made machineguns scarce, but that was an amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968, which was an amendment to the NFA, so the NFA is still the root problem.

[@EnthalpyAndEntropy]

@@Bacteriophagebs you forgot 3D printers and cnc mills.

[@lucidnonsense942]

You are missing the wood for the trees. No matter how you rework the lowers, the pool of the guns stays the same. In fact, it's slowly decreasing as there's inevitable attrition. The point is to stop making US' gun problem worse than it already is. A small number of people might make some illegal new ones, but it'll be a tiny number compared to what would happen if anyone could just pop into Walmart to pick an auto up. The system works, the complicated approval system is a sop to the gun fanboys - otherwise it would be more efficient to just ban any modifications.

[@Bacteriophagebs]

@@Makingnewnamesisdumb That was the case before 1986.

[@bagochips834]

@@lucidnonsense942 machine guns were the least common type of firearm used in crime before the NFA, and they're the least common type used now. The NFA was passed because of racism, it was passed because black people had the audacity to demand equality through the same armed marches white people were doing. It's also because of the black Panthers doing copwatches as a more proactive response to police brutality . Look up the Mulford act.

[@jellyfishedx]

I always wondered how this worked. Such a great video and Lage is a legit mad scientist. I love my M11 with Max-11 upper. I always wanted the Max11/15 but never could afford one.

[@Sturgeonmeister]

It;s pretty amazing how the AR and it's components have found their way into many other firearms.

[@mcjim256]

Lage Mfg is a very well run family company making a really clever and very high quality product. If you are lucky enough to be in the market for something like this you won’t be disappointed. Great people to work with. Thanks for another very interesting and entertaining Forgotten Weapons video.

[@andrewallason4530]

I reckon the grip could be used as an ‘ejection port’. The case ( or full cartridge if needed) is extracted, then hits a ‘ramp’ ejector kicking the back of the case down the grip, primer down. Either way, I want one in 300BO, with a 9-10” barrel, whack on a rail with pic top, M-loc at 3,6 and 9, suppressed.

[@JasonLihani]

Rad. I remember when I went to a machine gun shoot about a decade ago in Colorado. I reached out to a company whose MP5K-PDW I fired because it was so fun and inquired on the price. Fuggin $21,000. I was like "Oh...ha nevermind." And they were like "WAIT. We also have a Mac-10 for $6K!" Suffice to say, I never ended up getting a Form 4 lol.

[@J.DeLaPoer]

My biggest regret is selling my original Colt 601 many years ago. I can't even bring myself to look at what they might go for these days; it was a full kit with 2 waffle mags, bayonet, sling, cleaning kit, bipod, etc. I even had an original 1st gen Colt 4x scope for the carry handle. The Colt SP-1 I have now is about as close as it gets (lacking selectfire), but ugh.... I still miss it. And that switch is kind of the point. What part of "Shall not be infringed" does the government not understand?

[@jwseibert1059]

Well this certainly seems like it is an improvement over the machine pistols.

[@10mmlover]

People keep saying that the original mac10 style machine pistols were worthless. Seeing as they bring endless joy to anyone who shoots one, I’m not seeing the problem.

[@theme7363]

@@10mmlover but to be fair. low bar

[@theme7363]

now it's an actual gun, and not just a pocket full of ASDUHFASEDJFBKL,;lasIDKM ,

[@Billswiftgti]

@@theme7363 isn't it supposed to be a criminal weapon shooting at point blank? You can't miss these if it doesn't jam.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

Awesome to see that they have these working now. Lage has some super cool products!

[@Breakfast_and_Bullets]

IMMEDIATELY stopped what I was doing to watch this.

[@2sleeze]

Great video! They could come up with a magazine for the Mac 11 that holds a mechanism with a button below to interact with the recoil spring locking mechanism, so you dont need an ad hoc tool. Can be all plastic with just a spring button and a rod to interact with the tab there.

[@justinkase1360]

Genius idea, actually. Of course it would need to be protected so it could not accidentally lock up the gun.

[@billstevens5277]

You just use an M11/9 magazine. Lage has that in one of his videos.

[@justinkase1360]

@@billstevens5277 True, I found this out later. Still, I think it would be preferable to have all of the parts needed for disassembly on/in the gun. Granted, I know these are range toys, but still.

[@jonathan_60503]

I love when you cover weird mechanisms -- and this definitely counts. Very interesting and cool.

[@ImBarryScottCSS]

This is unreasonably cool. It is - if we're being fair - a pretty compromised version of a ubiquitous firearm. But it's forbidden fruit! It's full auto and legal! There's just something extra special about this :)

[@LowProOperator]

Although this is pretty awesome on a whole Nother note, if somebody redesigned the upper and lower set up for the military, and made a set up that takes side fed AR Max. It would be a pretty great lightweight LMG. I know everyone thinks the perfect LNG has to be built fed, but honestly does it? Now you’re having to carry around bundles and boxes of ammunition, you have to link up before hand anyways. The bundles of ammo are the same size or larger than a typical drum magazine so why not just have a bunch of 60 round drums or have it be side fed just like a belt fed would be and get a company pmag to make 50 round max.

[@ArcturusOTE]

I wonder if down the line we'd get belt fed Lage uppers? Or maybe attaching those belt fed AR uppers with a MAC trigger pack adapter?

[@XZLR8N]

With the Tenko 10-16 you could put on a belt fed upper...but it is in ATF limbo as well

[@SouthCoastTargets]

i asked richard about this in 2019, he said he looked into it and wasnt going to pursue it..... never know he could change his mind but dont hold breath

[@justinkase1360]

@@BcFuTw9jt I never understood opposition to getting a ruling. It's just a common sense thing to do and it's the ATF that is to blame for the result. not people working within the system.

[@billstevens5277]

@@SouthCoastTargets I think he was trying to use M249 parts sets. Engineering a belt feed mechanism would've been cost prohibitive.

[@SouthCoastTargets]

@@billstevens5277 i left that part out, yes he was wanting to use 249 top cover and feed but could not source them

[@spencerwilkie4218]

When he said it was his, I was so happy. I can't wait to see what Ian does with it :)

[@daveh777]

Never knew about those til this video. Really cool. Would love to see some range time video of one of those.

[@KmF0X]

I love those "middle finger to the AFT" kind of guns XD

[@JohnSmith-kw6io]

I absolutely love the aesthetic of these guns. They are gorgeous

[@justinkase1360]

The A1 version looks okay, but I have to disagree. Something is a little wonky about the distance between the grip and magwell. It's not too bad though, and I still want one of those uppers. The coolest looking one I was was an m11a1 with that upper and a collapsing stock, short barrel. Would like to see a LMG type heavy barrel conversion well.

[@TuckerDale89]

Fact that the Mac 11 can be 3-D printed and then these Lage uppers purchased is what I find to be pretty cool

[@10mmlover]

Yeah but they won’t last long because of the weak strength of the rear plastic plate that’s usually welded steel. What’s really special about the internal recoil version of this, is that it has its own steel plate on the back which gives wonderful reinforcement to that usually weak rear.

[@duanesamuelson2256]

@TheNandor I haven't looked into the material/strengths available but you can print 3D in metal.

[@lafeelabriel]

Holy moley, that may be the longest recoil spring I have seen to date.

[@MythicMagus]

I find it fascinating that someone can convert a compact SMG into a full sized AR/LMG. I would be interested to hear the creator/engineering team talk about how they figured out how to use the MAC's original mag well in the design of a new recoil system.

[@manmallard]

These remind me of the clone blasters from starwars. The whole MAC pistol/rifle conversion is awesome and I hope these are the next AR in popularity.

[@ltjamescoopermason8685]

Excellent enjoyable educational experience thanks for sharing your unique experiences with fire arms and all I might add is keep them coming perhaps the oddest weapons seen in modern battlefields 😊

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian 🐺

[@ecbst6]

Love our Lage uppers, got two now :)

[@littlelegs4563]

I've never seen a safety like that. What a neat gun.

[@darthhodges]

IV8888 mentioned in a video that there was a company in the 80s making semi-auto MAC copies for $90 and once you got approved they would full-auto convert it for $30. That's why there are so many.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

That's...really not how it worked at all.

[@tinakearns8792]

Excellent video Ian. Necessity is the mother of invention as the old saying goes. In this case i guess you could say improvement is the mother of invention. Good to see companies "sticking it" to the totally unconstitutional NFA and ATF.

[@garetz2011]

In Brazil we have a good word for this: GAMBIARRA Put a MAC ten squared box behind a Browning .30 machine gun and you have a fully transferable machine gun.

[@NICOLAI_VET]

Wonder if the brass chisel is included when you buy the one with the buffer? And if anyone is familiar with the M2, I predict a lot of return spring mishaps in the same style.

[@aidanfarnan4683]

I legit did a doubble-take when the big brass chisel came out. you seldom see woodworking tools needed for dis-asambaly

[@wesleyroberts7119]

Your actually just supposed to usea standard magazine. I'm not sure why he didn't

[@newpeupyoass]

Seems like this is best suited to a HBAR LMG style configuration, on account of the open-bolt.

[@Bacteriophagebs]

Since it takes AR-15 barrels, I'd be tempted to rebarrel it in .224 Valkyrie just for the lolz. Firing a round designed for ultra-long-range precision shooting from a full-auto, open-bolt gun would be pretty amusing.

[@HD-J.R.]

Amazing engineering. The only downside these days is the lack of cheap ammo. Thanks for posting this.

[@justinkase1360]

It quickly adds up to more than the gun over the course of ownership...

[@muffen100]

I had love for the mac 11 but dam this upper made it level up in my heart

[@zacht9447]

The fact that these are legal is insane especially considering the XMG34 got banned for being "Manufacturing a machine gun" it's literally replacing the upper on a registered AR15 full auto receiver with an MG34 style upper.

[@Matt-md5yt]

never heard of this one. thanks for teaching me a new thing

[@KapteinFruit]

I didnt know about this. Very cool and interesting. Who knew a MAC 11 could be turned into a 556 rifle.

[@sebastianbosek5222]

The guys at Battlefield Vegas joke about how, despite doing all they can to tune and optimize their Mac 11s, they still aren't accurate enough to hit paper at their range.

[@sebastianbosek5222]

@@ericokurowski wild

[@burnttoast26]

It looks like someone turned a kid's drawing of an AR into an actual gun

[@justinkase1360]

lol, true

[@J.DeLaPoer]

Reminds me of that odd Crosman "AIR-17" pellet gun from the 80s actually, with it's wonky proportions and too-far-forward magazine. You can tell it's supposed to represent an AR-15, but it's not quite right. I always imagine these things to be like guns from other parallel dimensions; Stempel's stuff the same way. In this case perhaps a neighboring world where Stoner's initial design was rejected by Armalite, and Gordon Ingram maybe studied to be an accountant instead of entering the army... I can picture the two of them randomly meeting in a bar in Parallel Earth No. 26, and sketching this thing out on a napkin over a beer or ten. Or, the Lage is like what you might get if you asked a mechanical engineer who had never seen an AR-15 before, to build you one based just on your verbal description of it. Or like, for even more of a tangential stretch, the way cargo cults would make airplanes out of bamboo, vines and leaves: they understood what the plane did and more or less how it looked, but not how it functioned or why. So you'd get this vaguely airplane-looking object that of course would never fly (this gun at least works, and very well, despite its' odd proportions etc). Maybe one day in the far future after WWIII our tribe of gun lovers will worship some approximately AR shaped, metaphysical idol amid the desolate wastelands? Or maybe I've been awake far too long and my mind is free-associating a bunch of crap.

[@rokball4892]

What a perfect gun for post apocalypse!

[@IDarkHoundI]

Very nice, looking forward to seeing in action video

[@NoClassic]

Lage really is doing the lords work. It would be cool if they just sold the receiver and reciprocating components on their own.

[@Mrgunsngear]

Very cool

[@justkidding8407]

Indeed

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

Ian had the same application for this upper that I did use it as a psuedo saw.

[@russingle1340]

A friend has one and the one time I fired it I found that it does in fact know that if I point it North it will hit in that general direction.

[@Indica_Cobra]

I know I was almost as excited as Ian when their .45 acp version got approved. Now I just need to find an old vet who has owned his all his life and doesn't want his wife to sell them for what he told her he paid for them

[@reinbeers5322]

The only thing that will wake a man from his coffin is when his wife says she'll have to sell his guns for what he told her he paid for them!

[@ScottKenny1978]

There's a reason to be on the "old veterans last move" phone tree...

[@hooptiej]

Oh man , i'd love to see a good range range run and the in-depth on Ians! im a huge fan of the all but-useless M11, the design itself has so much mod and experimental potential, from skorpion-like uppers with glock mags to the array of full 3d printed lowers. it may not be 'Useful' but damn are they clever and fun.

[@harrycallahan9733]

Never knew there was another way to get a full auto AR :) 👍

[@JasonLihani]

I get the ask to not have that transfer tube and AR buffer, but I would think that the compatibility with AR parts would be worth it just because you'd have so many options. The second one is very clever though.

[@vulpecula297]

I know it's a far cry from opening the MG registry, but I love projects like this. What a great way to try to keep usable MGs is civilian hands.

[@hainhatphung1371]

Wait...Ian has an M-11 all this time? Thought his last full auto piece was the Vickers MG? That's awesome!

[@daanfentoon]

I can’t explain how BADLY I want one of these

[@AlexLee-dc2vb]

In your InRangeTV video on WWSD magazines you didn't mention the Beta C Mag 100 round dual-drum or Schmeisser 60 round polymer quad-stack magazines. I'd love to hear your and Karl's thoughts on them, especially with how they could apply to something like this.

[@Larroseba]

I never thought i would ever see an Open Bolt AR.

[@fredericklockard3854]

I’m not sure why an M11/9 is useless. I’ve had mine for years and it runs great and is a nice little SMG.

[@ThisGuyAd.]

I had to double take when I saw the thumbnail. What a great idea 🤣

[@IncredibleMD]

The greatest innovations to firearm design since polymers have all been due to needing to develop workarounds to comply with American gun laws and still have halfway decent guns. As they say, restriction inspires creativity.