Fork Offsets Tested - Why Do Pro Downhillers Still Use Long Offsets?

[@Officernoob]

This channel is cookin

[@tomasbernat9]

Brian is always cookin the best stuffs 😄

[@willd2156]

You are the only non pro mtber worth listening to on youtube. Thanks mate

[@DandyHippo]

Pro isnt even the thing. Nerded out folk who have the brain and enthusiasm know much more than many pros

[@brandonb6164]

@@DandyHippo Yup. I have heard some legit dum dum opinions from pros. They are good riders in spite of their tech opinions.

[@kak8138]

You make the only mtb videos I will watch start to finish and not get bored. Good videos, info, humor.

[@ringoesroadking]

Something different and unique from a high level rider/racer. Brian's opinions and feedback carry more weight than most. Love the in depth analysis. Keep them coming!

[@MTBMcPhee]

That's a great way to cover a hard to describe topic especially from such a talented rider! I never liked 29ers until 44mm offset single crowns became the norm because they suffered from that snappy tuck the front kind of feeling, but now I love the unlimited front grip feeling of modern 29ers.

[@Bob_Shy_132]

What you explained is consistent with two wheel vehicle dynamics. Keeping the fork the same and changing the trail (with offset) from 44mm to 58 mm will make the bike steer easier (less grip on the front). The shorter offset will make the front feel more planted and tougher to change direction. But in the real world, shortening the offset will raise the front of the bike and while giving more stability due to more trail, will make the weight less on the front wheel. The way to get more weight on the front wheel while maintaing some stability would be to raise the forks in the triple clamps (lowering the front end). The last two sentences I typed would be with the 44mm offset clamps. The 58 mm will lower the front automatically (at standard fork ride height) and make the front easier to steer due to less trail. It also offers less 'dive in' traction.

[@Bonky-wonky]

By far the best description of how offset affects handling.

[@matthewzebersky3765]

This is fucking awesome! I have been experimenting with fork offsets and always interested in that with stem length. Love the vids you are killing it .

[@dante3660]

Great Video, got me thinking about stem lengths compared to fork offsets, it sounds like similar effects on handling but without changing the reach in the geometry.

[@AORNova]

Agreed. Really insightful explanation. My Pivot Shadowcat (the successor to your Mach 5.5) is also twitchy at the front at 65.8 degrees. Was using the stock Fox 36 at 44mm offset before replacing it with a Pike with 37mm offset. Calmed the front on chunk and loose over hard stuff. Sucks on slow floppy climbs though.

[@petedog9581]

I have been wondering about the offsets for awhile. Not a downhiller, but I was thinking about swapping the forks on my 2 trail bikes. This is a good overview, and I don't care about the science much. The channel is picking up subs. Keep up the hard work. I think 2025 will see your channel take off. Happy trails. On my 2 trail bikes, I have a 51mm offset on an older Stumpy w a short wheel base and a 2023 Rocky Instinct w a 44 mm offset and long wheel base. When my old Fox 34 died, I stayed w the longer offset on a 2023 Pike Select 150 for my Stumpy bc that was the offset it was spec'd with. It makes the front end lighter and comfortable to ride. It also works w shorter TT bikes bc it is easy to shift position on the saddle and weight the higher front end for climbs. However the light front end and short wheelbase make it sketchy in high speed turns and the front wants to pop up on short steep climbs. The Instinct is much longer and the body position is really centered over the pedals, so the shorter offset on the Marzocchi Z2 Bomber 150 is designed to keep more weight on the bars. The long chainstays help keep the bike planted and not too front-center biased. It is a beast in the turns. I think a lot of thought goes into the bike designs and the spec'd offset probably works the best for most folks. I also think the most logical change many make is with handle bar choice to get the cockpit right. I went from 25 mm rise to 30 mm on the Rocky and it became much more poppy w/o any sacrifices in traction and cornering.

[@mulullama]

Really enjoyed this content. Most of the videos you made in '24 i enjoyed. It's refreshing not having everything covering some surface level content that is just trying to sell me stuff

[@mitchellvangrieken3900]

7:00 Similar thing happens with bar width in Cycle Speedway, narrow bars track, wide bars lean. I run wide bars, because I have that "authority" to leverage the bars and lean the bike harder. To deal with front end wash outs, I make sure I'm weighted back on the saddle properly. Seems counter intuitive to have less front wheel wash outs with less weight on the front, but you're not pushing into the front either. Might be the same with moto riders not sure. Narrower bars turn easier, but I find they track the front wheel wide (i.e. don't lean as hard) unless I really concentrate on forcing the bike over.

[@johannesbutti6582]

Was having Trouble choosing Offset on my First dc fork and then this Video appears. Perfect!

[@WalterReyes-lo6mc]

Awesome content. You know what I had a commencal Meta TR Size Large. 435 cs 490 reach. Bike came with a 38mm offset. I bought a 44mm offset. That bike with the shorter CS I had a lot of front washing randomness man. 5mm doesn't sound much but it maybe I should stood with a shorter offset

[@RandyJacksonMTB]

bro chillin in them brandon westgates. got three pairs, were comfy so had to stack up

[@briancahal]

mine are so clapped haha

[@lightningshredder5605]

I have two bikes that have two completely different front end set-ups. One is my enduro bike it has 64 ha and a 44mm offset 160mm fork. 480mm reach. The other my hardtail with 62 ha 51mm offset, 120mm fork and 440mm reach. I prefer the longer reach/short offset it is more capable and feels very natural when used to it. But the hardtail is also dope because you can throw it around and it also lets you 'recover' the front easier if you loose it. Also I think the self steer is nice when cruising with no hands down the street for example.

[@ssjj9584]

I’ve done this test with single crown 44 and 51 on same bike. I felt the steering was quicker with the 51. The smaller contact patch/trail seemed to let the steering rotate easier similar to rotating on a ballpoint pen (smaller trail) to a fat tip marker (44 offset). Also felt the bike wanted to tuck easier in steeper terrain. I felt the bike wanted to washout easier and loose the front on 44. I also remember when 44 started to get popular on bikes people I know where losing the front end more. I even noticed some marketing changes how bike should be ridden more over the front end with 44 like transition for example. You mentioned less grip on 54-58 but I felt the smaller contact patch has more force distribution on to one smaller area (smaller trail) which actually has more bite or grip but then brake free at a certain point but less straight line stability (ball point pen affect). It’s like a razor sharp knife will dig in but lean over enough it will break free completely. A wider flatter blade won’t dig in as well but (bigger contact patch) but have more contact surface area but will need weight to retain grip with a bigger surface area than a smaller one designated area with 51. I think when 44 offset started to get popular The bikes weren’t extreme back then as they are now. Lots of trail bikes, and Enduro bikes are very slack now and long similar to downhill bikes and I think lots of riders have problems losing the front end or pushing washing the front and a 51 could benefit loosening up heavy steering on slack enduro bikes with less front end washing with that bite of 51. Especially with bikes with higher stack (more weight back) like dh bike. Both work but I don’t think people should be opposed to 51 especially with long,slack bikes these days. I think it could liven up a big slack all business enduro bike. Options are good. Nice video keep it up.

[@MikeesTexas]

Dude, you are killing it

[@michaelk.5706]

What stem length did you run for the test?

[@briancahal]

45mm, played around with 50mm a bit to didn't seem to prefer it even with the longer offsets. could have had something to do with the bike too since it already felt a bit too front biased.

[@MTB_DREAM]

I enjoyed your video. I'm also interested in this kind of experimentation, I wish single crowns were as easy to swap as duellies are.

[@jonathanreinhardt9342]

Good information. Makes way more sense.

[@hazza788]

I have the 50mm offset crowns for my DH38 on my size XL norco shore. Works well with the 445mm chainstay.

[@wpf312]

Great vid and props to Ohlins for hooking it up! This stuff is hard to grasp as an avg rider but love learning about it. Is that a Trail Peek (YT channel) shirt?

[@briancahal]

Thanks! as for the shirt its a www.senditrandy.com/

[@Vasyapetrov666]

Offset, fork length, wheel size, hta all this influence mechanical trail which is key parameter of bike handling (imho). Anyway interesting video, never thought in context of front end grip and fork offset.

[@theredspoon1763]

Why don't you ride the Geometron as your race bike? Looks sick af. These welds are soooo damn sexy! Also, Nicolai deserves a comeback on the world stage of mountainbiking.

[@pamo7261]

Im on 38mm offset on size L g1 and im struggling to get the bike turn fast in series of corners, im need to try 44.

[@alexnelson9505]

The shorter offset raises the bars and changes your turn in speed. Keeping your bars at a constant height would give you a better apples to apple comparison. I find that even a small increase in bar height throw's off my authority over the front end.

[@joehoeper3941]

excellent video - i would be interested in hearing your thoughts about high-engagement hubs vs lower engagement hubs. (no ochain)

[@briancahal]

I tend to prefer low/mid engagement hubs. Mostly. because I feel the drag in the super high engagement options like the hydra and I don't like the noise. The onyx hub seems like a sweet solution for instant engagement and low drag. Also the williams racing products DT internals look like an awesome way to get decent engagement and no drag. I'm not sure if engagement makes a difference with pedal kick tho and haven't tested enough to know if that's a factor

[@joehoeper3941]

@@briancahal Interesting. Future video "Does engagement cause pedal kick-back"?

[@briancahal]

@@joehoeper3941 problem is I don’t really care 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@lewismurphy6941]

I have a ripmo af and the 44mm offset transformed it. Would love to try longer chainstays

[@FOTB407]

I don’t ride a downhill bike but my two fave setups nowadays are: 10 mm Aerozine stem with 37 mm offset Mezzer 31 mm renthal Apex With 51 mm rxf36 Yeah they felt twitchy coming from a diff bike with 40 mm stem and 44 mm offset but i got used to it and now the steering just feels more lively. Def gotta learn to not oversteer tho Edit: with the 10 mm stem i use a frame with longer reach than i was used to

[@codycanning5300]

Stem length and fork offset seem to go hand in hand with balancing the bike’s oversteer/understeer characteristic. What length were you using?

[@briancahal]

45mm. I tried 50 with the longer offsets too and honestly don't think it changed all that much.

[@MarkusFinholt]

It's strange to me that you find the longer offset to be more "oversteery" and gripping of terrain. Every time I've tried a longer stem I feel like it drastically changes the handling and steering in a way that makes it more twitchy and more sensitive to rider input. I was assuming that a longer fork offset would have the same characteristic, but I guess not.

[@leon_brave_racing898]

I guess it matters about the ratio between the stem length and the offset. I think watching a video on offsets would tell me the answer to this but nahhh, im not watching that right now.

[@StranjBikes]

@briancahal what head tube angle were you running on the G1?

[@briancahal]

I had the long chainstay mutator, I believe 47mm and the 18.5 seat stay mutator running it in the short travel setting. I believe the head angle was 63 or 62.5

[@StranjBikes]

@ have you tried slacker angles with shorter offsets to see if it has the same feel as steeper/longer?

[@briancahal]

@@StranjBikes I haven't

[@mellissanash7517]

Higher offset would be for climbing as it would lower the trail a little. Did you try a 47mm offset?

[@ondrejjanoska660]

I have 44 and 58mm offset crowns for my norco range, same Öhlins fork and 44 ist much better for chunky downhills. I think you did not consider the size of the stem … 44mm crown offset case 50mm stem to by twitchy, almost sketchy on steeps on brakes. I end up with preferring 44 offset and 40mm anvl stem.

[@pathfindr_]

short offset = short stem, long offset = longer stem really seems to be the way to go

[@TheMatt365]

0:06 i also that

[@nv9120]

What is your stem length? I remember seeing somewhere that matching stem length and fork offset often produces the best rider feel. Maybe placebo but I tried it once and instantly felt happier with how the front end felt. Im sure it’s a bit of a personal preference thing as well. Love the content

[@briancahal]

i was running 45mm. I changed to 50mm a couple times through the test and didn't seem to prefer it even with the longer offsets. could have had something to do with the bike too since it already felt a bit too front biased.

[@sbin02387]

So youre saying i shouldnt design a -100mm offset fork for maximum front tire grip :| Very interesting that the short offset almost disconnects you. Makes much more sense why the pros are on the long offsets

[@floris2872]

So the short offset is more stable while the longer offset are more nimble?

[@briancahal]

kind of

[@thomaslawson3478]

Boss channel

[@melwalshmtb9121]

Been keen to try Industrie T shorter offset crowns with my Fox 40 on my G1. This video should prove to be useful. Brian’s the goat🙏

[@kellmurphy1344]

This channels needs more party shirts.

[@briancahal]

Cap

[@Monsterislandkrew]

OHLINES BETTER RECOGNIZE

[@michaeltiffe6341]

On what size frame are you speaking of? I assume from your appearance it would be a medium. Would you be able to comment on the effects on a small frame and/or extra large frame?

[@briancahal]

I’m on a large geometron here. It has a 522mm reach. I’m not sure how frame size would effect things, more so the weight bias of your bike might encourage a shorter/longer offset depending on how much front grip you are trying to achieve