Former Insider, Jesse Westwood: "How Bethel Teaching is Ruining People's Faith"

[@NewYawkahBroad]

Every single word Jesse uttered hit every single aspect of my life/faith in WoF. Every word about being a worship leader, being pressured to sound good by my 'pastor' rather than praising God. Having a person say they felt God move when I felt dirty after the set was done. The bone-rotting pain this has caused me and so many other people can be crippling.

[@susanceolin3227]

Xz z F

[@WilliamtheWorst]

SIS!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@deborahszafraniec4829]

Wow! I had no idea how big a problem this actually is!

[@salgar1234]

Wow. I ‘feel’ your pain. Every time I hear of a Bethel type heresy I actually feel I’ll in my gut. I was 20 years in false church ‘lite’. But boy it takes so long to unlearn the lies and false doctrine.

[@childoftheking2214]

I am soooo thankful God was able to pull me out of the NAR/WOF movement after over 40 years. Thank you to everyone who does the work to help expose false teachers and lead people to the true gospel. Do not let the accusations of hate stop you. What you are doing is loving when done right.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@davidschefter4160]

Please pray for my siblings who have been involved in the Wof/Nar for over 35 years. Thank you, much appreciated!

[@deborahszafraniec4829]

Praise God!

[@luke_rs]

How long ago did you leave?

[@salgar1234]

@@davidschefter4160 By God’s grace may your family be set free from the idolatrous cult of wof/nar. By his grace and the power of God’s Holy Spirit bring into their life a way that causes them to hear the truth and know they are in a false church system.

[@Foreknown_]

Pray this reaches Bethel followers and opens some eyes

[@thewestwoodhome]

that would be great!

[@angie-bk1yc]

God is calling his people. I finally got saved from charismatic lies 7 years ago. I'm 54 now and I finally am understanding. Praise God he is so good. I was so confused, I had just given up. God is sovereign. I'm so blessed now. I know more now than I have in my entire life. Thank you for this interview. It's so good to know I wasn't alone.

[@thewestwoodhome]

praise God!

[@Daftok]

There is nothing unbiblical about Charismatics…tongues & gifts of the Spirit are real. God is a supernatural God. I think there should be more clarity on what the issues are

[@angie-bk1yc]

@@Daftok God is not a genie. He never promises wealth, health, or prosperity. He says, you will face trials and tribulations but don't worry because I will be with you. Toungues is one of the gifts we receive when we get saved, but not all Christians get this gift. Read 2 chronicles and Timothy. Also, the bible says when one speaks in tounges, let there be another that translates it. For everyone in a church to talk in tounges all at the same time is not biblical. No such thing in being drunk in the spirit. In acts, when the holy spirit came down, the people were talking in tounges, it was actually different languages so others who spoke those languages could understand. As far as prophets, it says man will have dreams and visions, but, if they do not come to pass, they are false prophets and never to be believed again. There is no decreeing or declaring things into existence, and we are NOT little God's! Charasmatic churches are just a cult like catholic and many other so called religions.

[@rudolfkasanpawiro644]

​@angie-bk1yc totally agree. Most tongue speaking are just empty sounds, fabricated.

[@listeningservantsministries.]

@@angie-bk1yc hello! i used to think what you believe about the charismatic movement. so speaking in tongues is earthly language. but praying in tongues is where it sounds like gibberish. 1 Corinthians 14:2. This verse states, "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit" and the Bible does say be drunk in the spirit. Ephesians 5:18, it says: "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit" and every Christian can heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out devils. it says in mark 16:16-18 15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” and we can declare things. it says in job 22:28 “You will also declare a thing, and it will be established for you; so light will shine on your ways” and we can declare things into existence. it says in mark 11-23-24 "And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." and Isaiah 55:11 says this: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." so in conclusion: i love the charismatic movement. GOD has showed me it. i used to believe what you believe. and i respect it. i really do. GOD bless you.

[@bsusie1]

Many years ago my introduction to Christianity was in WOF. The message really appealed to me, due to coming from a childhood of horrific abuse. I was also born with scoliosis, which over the years caused more pain. I wanted to believe that healing was mine, and the church kept feeding me the message. According to them I needed more faith, needed to get rid of any sin, and expel the demon causing the pain. I went through so many years feeling I lacked something because I just couldn’t attain what they were teaching. Those around me thought I was victorious in my walk, but deep down I felt I needed to hide. The teachings in WOF/NAR can be so deceptive. The Father was able to penetrate the lies I was believing and took away the burden of believing if I could get it right then I could experience the abundant life. I now live the abundant life the Bible teaches. One of the biggest lies of these movements is that God isn’t sovereign, it’s up to us to make our lives line up. No, He paid the price and by grace I accept His free gift. Trying to repent and relearn has been a process.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

The folks in our ministry team were sucked into WoF/Charasmatic teachings and by the grace of God, like you, we were taken out of that darkness and into the kingdom of the light of Christ.

[@bsusie1]

@@NoApologiesTeam Appreciate you commenting. It’s been very encouraging for me to read comments of others that are no longer involved in these movements. Recently when talking to a very dear friend from my past I tried explaining how my beliefs have changed. I told her I have so much peace and my trust is completely in the Lord. Said I no longer have the burden of trying to receive. She said, that’s good but you should never carry that burden. Don’t think I adequately explained how things are different. Thing is, if it’s up to me to get my heart convinced of something in order to receive then how can I look at it any different? I now rest in the Father, and trust His Sovereignty to provide what I need.

[@hmac163]

I was so messed up by my previous Christianity I had to consciously forget it and I joined an Alpha course. Found a beautiful Bible based baptist church with people who are satisfied to hear God speak to us in the Word.

[@dancanidanho3698]

I grew up in an Assemblies of God church, part of the Pentecostal-style churches but not as intense as Bethel (at least mine wasn't), and I followed a very similar path to Jesse. I played in my youth group's worship band in high school. In college I became an atheist/agnostic, which lasted for almost 10 years. I tried getting into Buddhism, Gnosticism, you name it. Just recently now, around age 30, I became a Christian.

[@jonahhanson38]

Praise God!

[@thewestwoodhome]

wow wow wow!

[@juditharsenault2131]

I was looking for a church and decided I'd try the assemblies of God. I arrived very early and no one was around. I went in the ladies room and their was a curling iron plugged in and in the sink. I unplugged it as it's a fire hazard. Then I went into the church and there were hundreds of dead flies all over the floor in the front where the pastor preaches. I took that as a sign about these people's lives. It was gross. I think I stayed for the sermon but left and never went back.

[@joyceburns2613]

God didn't let go, glory to God!

[@abrahamphilip6439]

A Butterfly ,

[@whisperstv2888]

This is so beyond relatable. I literally cried when he said what the actual gospel is😭🙌 Excellent discussion and awesome testimony👍💯 God bless you both!🙏☺️💖🕊

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@lisalancework7999]

Me too when he was explaining what his definition of the gospel was tears were streaming down my face

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Agreed! Isn't it great to hear THE Gospel - FREEDOM to my ears

[@Francine1117]

I kept saying “Wow! Wow!” Over and over the first few minutes in with this video! It’s amazing how lost people are in Bethel, it’s scary how they are able to lie through their teeth! I’m so thankful God revealed the truth to him! I am praying more and more people see the truth and leave!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Amen, totally agree with you. Our ministry also came out of WoF/Charismania. God bless you.

[@audyharrison]

I can so relate to this. My husband and I lead worship for years. My husband would get so burned out leading worship every Sunday. American Gospel also hit us like a ton of bricks. I've also watched it over and over. ☺️ We also feel that we have wasted many years in this movement. Both of us were raised in it as children, now we are in our 40s. Thank God for His mercy.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Agreed. Well said. Time wasted, but our God can redeem that time.

[@claudiabailey5302]

Don’t look at it as wasted time. Look at it as God kept you for that amount time even though you involved in a movement that wasn’t correct. And in his time he rescued you from it and now has a beautiful plan for you life. You story and journey is God showing you his mercy and grace. And God will restore and use those past years.

[@Marlaina]

When Bethel doesn’t reject occult practices and instead claims to try and “take them back”, can you be surprised that those under their influence will embrace it? Bethel is not a Christian organization with true Christian beliefs. The fruit is bad and those growing on the “Bethel tree” are also producing bad fruit. Redding is one of the top places that needs the Gospel.

[@thewestwoodhome]

truth

[@LadyoftheBunnies]

So true!

[@Scripture-247]

There are plenty of churches in Redding that teach sound doctrine. Bethel needs to go.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Agreed. Great comment. It is "Christ" washing to make their bad teaching palatable to those who ARE Christian. Deception.

[@ryanehlis426]

@@Scripture-247bethel has changed the spiritual atmosphere of the entire region around Redding. When I was at bethel there where more angels there than people. They have established an open portal from heaven to earth where angels ascend and descend answering prayer and doing kingdom work.

[@mrs.b.3851]

It was as if I was listening to myself be interviewed by Steve!! My WOF/NAR breakdown started in 2020 (more likely before that though). I have grown up in a charismatic church and I'm now 44, married with 3 children and I'm realizing I haven't been taught anything in regards to Christianity or the gospel. I see how God has directed my steps to where I am right now. Thank you for your channel Steve!!!

[@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch]

Praise God!

[@thewestwoodhome]

amazing!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Good on you for sharing that. It can be a super hard journey to KNOW you've been deceived for so long. Our ministry shares a lot of your experiences.

[@ptl316]

@@NoApologiesTeam Hello brothers from down under.🤠

[@WordMadeFlesh777]

Unfortunately not knowing the Gospel and Christianity is not isolated to just the NAR. The real gospel isn’t preached in the majority of churches.

[@panagiotiskourkoulis3873]

Thank you for posting this interview. I have been listening to Steve, Chris and Dan for over a year now, but this interview is giving me some new hope. My wife and I left a charismatic church/cult about 18 months ago, and both our family have been ravaged by their philosophy, practice and “behind the scenes” lives. Thank you Steve and Jesse.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Our ministry members experiences in WoF and Charismania is very similar to yours.

[@thewestwoodhome]

@@NoApologiesTeam Interesting. Well looking forward to making more content maybe you can relate to :)

[@isaiah12v2]

You should listen to Justin Peters talk about these heresies. If you had ANY doubts you won’t after!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

@@isaiah12v2 Yes, our channel recently had a chat with Justin and Steve K about modern church problems, like Santa in the church etc. It was a really robust discussion.

[@jenni8759]

I appreciate this video so much!!!! I was definitely crying through a lot of it. Bethel nearly destroyed my faith as well and I'm so so glad God led me to truth.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks for listening sis!

[@Elliott05]

I’m with you Jenni. Our family was nearly destroyed. But for the Lord ❤️

[@DepDawg]

My friend married a graduate of IHOP. He has been a terrible influence on her. Her theology began to unravel into weird areas. When they became pregnant, they sold everything and moved to Redding to join Bethel for their “daughter’s future.” She hasn’t answered my calls or written back to me in over 4 years.

[@franky8.5]

It's so good to watch an interview where the interviewer does not keep talking over the guest. A very rare event from a lot of interviews I've seen.

[@hapennysparrow]

I went through a deconstruction process some years ago. I felt like I was laying in pieces and did not know how to reassemble my faith, like I was a bit of flotsam bobbing in the sea with nowhere to touch bottom, to stand on. I met Jesus in 1970, fell head over heels in love with this merciful Savior. He healed and delivered me when I knew nothing about healing or deliverance. The first church I attended was a young pastor who as a Lutheran minister met the person of the Holy Spirit, and was ejected from his congregation. A few people left with him, they met in his living room, and out of nowhere God sent hippy kids to his house who were hungry for God. They moved to an Elementary School cafeteria on Sunday mornings, and at a Recreation center on Friday nights. There was no worship team, no sound systems, just some enthusiastic kids and wise mature vrluevers😮believers who sang impromptu worship songs, some classic hyms, some scripture put to music. Guitars, bongo drums, tambourines, and our voices. Someone would lead out with a song and the rest of us would join in. I have never experienced worship like that since. Truely from our hearts. No ego, no formal musicians, no amps, no special lighting, just raw emotional devotion for a Savior who forgave our sins, loved us to Himself, and died in our place in order to redeem and reconcile us to the Father. Gratitude was what we felt. The Holy Spirit and the gifts were there but not the focus. Jesus was always front and center. Then an elder decided we should become cell groups. In cell groups, he introduced heresy. The sacrifice of Jesus was not good enough, simply loving Jesus was not good enough. Old Testament laws were added, the pastor kicked out and the sheep scattered. I fled to another Charismatic church, and all was well for several years until they got involved with the Shepherding movement. Back to cell groups, and abusive hierarchical structure. Exit stage left, I moved from Southern California to Washington State to a small town on the Olympic Peninsula. I found a sweet simple fellowship with sincere believers who followed a more traditional path. I learned to treasure those beautiful old hymns. My baby daughter was miraculously healed from a malformed kidney at that church as the elders anointed her with oil and prayed. Jesus was once again at the center of life under that pastor. Then he moved, I attended another church that was a weird mix of pentecostal, word of faith, and fantasy. There was a devil behind every Bush, fear was the motivation for much of what was practiced, and I was drawn and quartered when my marriage disintegrated. If only I had had enough faith my marriage would have been healed. I wasn't visualizing a perfect marriage, saying the right declarations, and I wore the scarlet letter " D" on my chest. I gained custody and fled back to S. CA. This is when my deconstruction began. I could not go back to the world, but I did not know who the real Jesus was. I told God that "I am going fishing," as Peter stared after Christ was crucified. By a miracle intervention, a neighbor invited myself and my kids to a church she was attending. I do not know where this precious man and his beautiful wife is today, but I want to give a shout-out to Ken and Patti Blue who pastured Foothills church. I sat there for eight years undoing bad theology, and stone by stone, God put me back together. I would never have found these amazing people on my own. Like a mother cat, God picked me up by the scruff of my neck, and carried me to this spiritual hospital/ rehabilitation center. It saved my life. Ken Blue wrote a book titled " Healing Spiritual Abuse, How to Break Free From Bad Church Experience." I recently reread it after all these years, and it was so prescient, because it addresses all that has gone off the rails in church culture in the last few decades. When the Toronto Blessing was going on, a good number of that congregation got caught up in that undertow, and Pastor Blue did not go along with it. So over half of his congregation left for greener pastures, and he eventually left to hold gospel meetings among the world's poorest. Those eight years gave me the firm footing I needed to survive the weird church culture that followed the Toronto heresy. Things really heated up with the candidacy of Trump, then his Presidency. I once again exited stage left, as the sweet church I had been attending for 14 years went bonkers, full on Bethel teaching, Christian Nationalism, became a NAR church with much between the two groups, incorporating New Age philosophy and practices into their services. On my own again, I have been flying solo for the last 7 years. Not passively though. Studying scripture, praying, reading I continue my adventure with a faithful God. Several years ago I began reading up on this whole mess. Kristin DuMez's book," Jesus and John Wayne," Katherine Stewart's book,"The Power Worshippers, Anne Nelson's," The Shadow Network, and finally, " Jeff Sharlet's, " The Family," and its sequel ," Undertow."have helped put the puzzle pieces together that explains so much of what I knew was wrong, but did not know how to connect all of the dots. I also discovered The Holy Post podcast, listened to brilliant lectures by John Lennox, and your podcast. God bless your work. We must remember not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. God does speak through prophets Ge does give dreams and visions, and He heals broken hearts every day. He will never contradict His written word, or His character. He is not our servant or a formula for success. He never calls us to strive for wealth and dominion over others. Silly manipulations by declarations and decrees and visualizations do not summon Him to grant us our wishes and tell us what we want to hear. He is not our best buddy. He loves us but is not as interested in our comfort as He is in our character development. Walking with Him is a process of learning and discovery, and a whole lot of soul searching. Sorry this is so long, but this whole story needs to be told by all of us who have gone through the fire and the deep water, and come out stronger.

[@jamesharvey7492]

Wow I read your whole testimony here. There is a lot of manipulation going on. Emotional manipulation!! I've been through a lot and it takes a lot sometimes to wake you up. Jesus gives us rest. He is loving and forgiving. Rest well brother.

[@mariolakarpik4733]

Thanks ! A very interesting story I'm from Poland (central Europe) Could I write you an e-mail? kind regards

[@Bunbun667]

Thank you for sharing your story! I am glad that Jesus is still your savior in lord. May The Lord continue to lead you and guide you.

[@eleasahridley2524]

Thankyou for this post ❤❤❤

[@KennethSee]

I’m encouraged to hear that The Lord is saving people from the NAR. Praise God from whom all blessings flow!

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank for listening!

[@ryanehlis426]

Lol 😂 the stupidity of people trying to get people to leave one Christian church for another. Jesus saves people from there sin.

[@nathankinman7753]

@@ryanehlis426 this coming from a guy with a Benny Hinn avatar!

[@ryanehlis426]

@@nathankinman7753 yes love papa Benny :)

[@debsad7500]

To God be the Glory! This is such a powerful testimony. God never EVER left him. ❤

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you so much!

[@cindykouhout5841]

I feel like if I ever met the Kozars I'd just break down crying uncontrollably! They've been such a huge piece of the puzzle of us getting out of prosperity teaching and chasing ghosts. I'm so thankful for them.

[@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch]

We are so glad to be of help, Cindy! Thank you for your very kind words!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Kozar is the man

[@tammyspurdle9208]

Thank you Steve and Jesse ❤️

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@NerdyMaiden]

Jesse is a cousin of mine. I'm so glad he's talking about his experiences. ❤️ love you cousin!

[@thewestwoodhome]

love ya sis!

[@innovati]

Love you brothers, thanks for having this tough conversation and being brave enough to share it here with us! I hope the people who need to hear it find this video!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@deborahszafraniec4829]

Definitely an act of bravery and integrity!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

It really is brave. Well chosen words

[@Window4503]

PSA: Just a friendly reminder to support, encourage, equip, and educate the teens and young adults around you. They’re often especially susceptible to false teaching as they try to figure out who they’re supposed to be and what they’re supposed to do in life. This stuff is so sneaky that it even got me as a pastor’s kid with an all-Christian education (which was biblical and didn’t teach this stuff but didn’t warn us either) for a year or two. It might be weird to reach out, but not so weird that they won’t appreciate in time.

[@thewestwoodhome]

yeas yes yes

[@DW-yq4zn]

My church showed the youth group and the whole church “American Gospel”.

[@thewestwoodhome]

@@DW-yq4zn NICE!

[@Michelle-oe7vr]

This is such a good point. I suppose it can be easy to assume that the youth are ok because they are in a sound church, but we don’t know what they’re watching on KZbin or listening to, so we have to protect them.

[@spiritwardiaries]

Hey! Thank you for this! People have no idea why 'Bethel Church's' are an issue. When I saw all the Christian-ized occult practices going on, "biblical style tarot card readings, etc", I was like 'Oh Hail No!' I came out of the occult, was a 'practitioner' for 35 years, to see the ideology and practices infiltrating the church is upsetting. Although I do not belong to a congregation, it grieves me to see these churches fail people and mislead them or let them down.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@carsonsnavely4641]

You don’t belong to a congregation? There are plenty of good churches around that don’t do psychic readings!

[@WalkinTruth839]

I'm thankful for this video. My husband and I are in a place of freedom and rest in what Christ did on the cross. A lot of what both of you touched on, regarding works based salvation is what we were so heavily involved in. We left a charismatic church last November. And we've repented and are in a process of just learning God's Word knowing that we are justified by faith alone, in Christ alone. We can rest in that and we trust God's faithful hand to complete that work in us. Thank you for this video. Hopefully one day, we'll share our story. So many people here are caught up in deliverance and charismatic movements. God bless you and your ministry.

[@stacywilliams1624]

Thank you for this word. I came out of IBLP then a charismatic church after that and I'm still recovering from both. I've managed to keep my faith but boy do I understand those who walk away. Testimonies like yours have been helplful in my own healing journey.

[@deejitv]

"I want to expose bad teaching and help people retain their faith." Amen dude

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks ❤

[@beckykip4905]

Hearing you talk about having to relearn all of the faith that you thought you had is exactly the reprogramming I went through for years after leaving the charismatic church. I had to relearn EVERYTHING. Thank you for sharing

[@matteblak6158]

Every time I think of Bethel, I come back to “the Emperor’s new clothes“. It’s like nobody really notices that everybody still gets sick, everybody still dies, almost none of the prophecies are even remotely connected to the events that follow… But nobody is willing to admit that the teachings are completely naked.

[@thewestwoodhome]

good point

[@kathierouse6046]

Thank you for this interview with Jesse, Steve. Wolves such as Bill J etc have a lot to answer for. Unless they repent, they will die in their sins! I would hate to be in their shoes when facing their judgment. 😔😓🙏🙏🙏

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@paulbriggs3072]

Yes, for God has set a day when He will judge the earth with truth and justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead!

[@contenderfortruth]

If not for the grace of God, if God doesn't open our blind eyes ALL WOULD BE DECEIVED! TO GOD BE THE GLORY FOREVER!!

[@thewestwoodhome]

truth

[@atmalewis1513]

Thank you for helping to wake people up. I was one of them, got sucked into the New Age teachings and then moved on to the gnostic teachings. I studied the Nag Hamadi texts thinking I was reading ancient Christian texts. When I finally realized I had once again wasted my time. I finally picked up the Bible. Reading the Bible brought me to the Truth. The gnostic stuff is deceptive and dangerous.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks for watching! More stuff coming up too

[@phillipsugwas]

What puzzles me is how people allow themselves to be drawn towards the gnostic . And of course towards prosperity ( so called). The enemy uses counterfeit and subversion and distraction. Truth is typically not denied simply subverted. If one part of the truth is overemphasised it is no longer the truth and the opposite here is true as well. This occurs to the left and the right of the spectrum of belief. " I came to serve not to be served". The presnt power that is linked to the sharing of Gods Kingdom is not an option, an extra. It is part of transformstion.

[@traciebidwell5419]

I stopped dead in my tracks when I heard you mention “Pagan Christianity.” Our worship leader and his wife introduced this book to my family through our worship team small group. Within the year, they had left the church altogether and denounced their faith. It caused so much confusion and doubt in me that I went into a crisis of faith that took years to work out. I describe it as drowning and not being able to find the way to the surface because it all looked right and all looked wrong. I wonder how many other people have similar stories?!

[@robcue4543]

The Mess Up Church Rocks!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@leadtrackere1476]

My pastor friend says people go to bars and churches for the same reasons. To be heard, to find comfort, to forget, to find love….That song is a great illustration.

[@rachelparradelong]

In his intro he nailed how I felt when I first came out. So mad at the years wasted and lie I was sold. And I was in all the conferences you name it too. He was dead on

[@ShalomMbugua]

Hello Steve, Mbugua from Kenya. This testimony is similar to my experience with the John G Lake ministries under Curry Blake. Sad how far the movement has spread over here!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@anitablanchette]

I sooooo relate to what Jesse is saying. Came out of the hyper charismatic life about 4 years ago after spending 35 years in it. So grateful for all of the same teachings Jesse mentioned that helped me develop a solid, doctrinal Bible study and Biblical lifestyle totally committed to Jesus knowing what He did for me, a sinner. Thank you for bringing Jesse's story to the public. Praying for souls to be saved through the Truth of God's Word shared here

[@randalrobinson3424]

Having watched many KZbin videos of people attacking other Christians with vitriol and name-calling, I appreciate your approach to discussing the issues here

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks 🙏🏼

[@ab-gail]

Thank you much to Jesse and to this channel for putting this out there. I’m going through something similar at with my church. I’m currently trying to figure out how to switch churches while helping my NAR friends understand why.

[@kurtsherrick2066]

I have tried helping people that are Charismatic. One I love so much. She knows the true Gospel but has gotten lost with False Doctrine and False Prophets. She tells me I have a Religious Spirit. She believes in Kat Kerr and other just crazy self Proclaimed Prophets. She refuses to listen. I don't want to destroy our friendship so after trying a few times I just had stop. They are trapped by the teaching of Bill Johnson and others. I went to a Bible Study with her and they showed Todd White Videos. Afterward the videos I was asked what I thought. I said he didn't heal anyone and he makes outrageous claims that are never on video. I said Todd has a video crew going with him everywhere when he does the Leg Pulling Scam but never when those remarkable things happen. The Video crew is never there when those claims were happening. It was like taking to wall. Good luck. I know it hurts when you know the truth but they refuse to listen why NAR/ Word of Faith is wrong.

[@thewestwoodhome]

It is a very tough conversation. You just have to make it simple, not personal, and stick to the doctrine. Having to leave the very chruch My family grew up in was tough but when you keep it to the core doctrine it does help. Address the theology not the people.

[@kurtsherrick2066]

@The Westwoods That was a comment that shows wisdom. Yes we are to teach in love but most take being taught the truth very well. Like this lady said she was in Word of Faith for 40 years and teaching those friends we love that what they believe is wrong with Word of Faith and NAR is swimming against the current of the Mississippi River. It takes patience but they have to be open minded. That's hard with closed minds.

[@mcshiro1941]

I went to catch the fires school of ministry twice. I know John arnott. I came home and shared all the NAR teachings with friends and family. I dove deeper into all that stuff until I couldn’t wrap my head around it anymore. So many things that didn’t make sense. It’s funny how I’ve noticed in my journey of leaving bad theology it was heavily paired with me actually reading the Bible.

[@BrotherJohnElving]

God bless you Jesse. Keep speaking the truth. God bless you and your family this holiday season. Brother John 🙋‍♂🙋‍♂🍁🍁☃☃❄❄

[@suechapel1443]

Hi Brother John ☺Sue Chapel here from CA. This was such an awesome interview, wasn't it?

[@BrotherJohnElving]

@@suechapel1443 Hi my friend. Great to see you. I am watching right now. Yes, it is great. Blessings.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Got your Facebook message!

[@kamaehamae]

First minute in, and wow - that’s something I couldn’t come up with!! 😮 Also - the damage this NAR movement has done to people in my age group! 😞 Seems like Jesse went to the deep deep end of it.

[@NewYawkahBroad]

Amen, sister.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Hey Kamae, what an insightful comment. It is targetted.

[@msfar2go]

Just confirms everything I have been though........now in a orthodox Anglican with hymnal, no alphabetic spaghetti or women pastors/teachers. Takes a while to shake the guilt that the NAR delivers......COVID allowed me to watch good teachings and showed me where I needed to worship. Thanks to the apologetic tubers Thankyou Thankyou

[@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch]

Praise God that He has moved you away from NAR teachings! Thanks for watching!

[@MariaKneas]

Thank you for posting this interview for us.

[@SolaGratia.]

Wow. I'm not even 1/4th into the video and it seems like he was already all over the place doctrinally. He had a smattering of methodist church, some Amish or Mennonite stuff from school, and his charismatic church and Bethel School of Ministry, yet he clearly admits he had no real understanding of theology or any ability to discern biblical Christianity from error. Looking back, I can see that my parents made a lot of the same mistakes, because I didn't learn about those things until finding channels like this one and F4F, and that was after many years of charismatic church, Christian home schooling and "Bible College" as well. It really did set me up for failure and almost led to the utter shipwrecking of my faith. But thank God that finally changed.. largely thanks to the internet and channels like these.

[@thewestwoodhome]

crazy up bringing for sure but all good intentions from parents. Locked in to a solid church now and thankful for the community around us

[@SolaGratia.]

@@thewestwoodhome For sure.. And praise God!

[@thewestwoodhome]

@@SolaGratia. always

[@NyssaOwens]

Good afternoon! Looking forward to this interview. I've been telling people many times over how dangerous this "theology" is!

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank you!

[@NyssaOwens]

@@thewestwoodhome just subbed to your channel. God bless!

[@apriljbuchanan3683]

I could relate to so very much of this interview. So grateful for Gods grace in bringing me out of the hyper-charismatic church and into sound doctrine. Great interview!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@keith3362]

So do you think reformed/Calvinist doctrine is sound doctrine?

[@valeriespector9250]

I love how this young man loves truth ❤Thank you for this interview I just started listening to your channel

[@EnlightenedPraise]

1:04:24 “First Breath After a Coma” that actually sounds like a fitting song title for people coming out of NAR and other cult theology. My journey out was absolutely by God’s divine intervention and it was PAINFUL and SCARY! It was like I had woke up in the hospital in terrible pain wondering what had just happened and where my supposed friends were at. I suppose they were still in their own comas. Abandoned by community. The scariest things I faced was that my faith was going to deconstruct and that I would sink into depth of depression. And somewhere in it all what I realized was what I had been involved in was perversion and was abusive. Reading the Bible was really difficult at times but I kept praying and reading and what I was seeing is that the suffering I was going through is actually a normal part of maturing as I read and get to know God through His Word for myself. I didn’t always buy into the NAR narrative even in the midst and I would ask questions and such. The journey I took through NAR interesting enough took place after I truly repented of my sinful ways and turned to Jesus in a posture of surrender and humility. Unfortunately there were NAR people in my orbit when that happened and I got pushed that direction by my ex. One reason I think I eventually found myself an outcast from NAR was because I wasn’t compliant in bowing to and worshipping the “apostles” and “prophets”. My ex husband kissed up and he remained. Yet we divorced because he was a serial adulterer, abusive and a thief in his business practices. They knew these things and yet they kept him and sent me away when I separated from him. It was really a huge blessing in getting me out of fellowship with these False Teachers. But it was like coming out of a coma. This interview/discussion is good!

[@hope46sf]

Thank you both!! Jesse, I'm so glad God brought you out from Bethel. Wonderful interview!! Lord, bring us back...So sweet to see u w your baby, Jesse! 😊

[@teedoubleu9602]

Praise God for the blessing American Gospel has been to soooooooo many of us, false converts who were in bad churches, and how God used American Gospel to teach us and lead us to the Gospel.

[@cryslaw100]

Thank you for this! My heart breaks over the deception and I am so thankful God truly saved me after 14 years as a false convert

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks!

[@cellison9414]

Outstanding interview, you both did a great job. The topic of how music affects our emotions, being discussed by two well seasoned musicians, is enthralling. Thank you.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks 🙏🏼

[@adaynasmile]

I think you have done an excellent job of pointing out the TRUE Gospel and why you talk about the false ones all the time. You constantly point us back to scripture in your videos and I am so grateful for it. I don't think you need to explain the purpose of your channel in a separate video. It is clear in each video that you have a heart for Christ and that you are trying to help others along their journey, strengthen the church (universal but not Catholic ;) ) towards the goal of bringing more people to Christ. That is what we all should be striving to do, and you Steve, have done an excellent job of it. I at least have been blessed many times over and gotten deeper in my faith through your videos.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank for listening!

[@charityweitkamp6801]

So many of these experiences and struggles coming out of Bethels teaching I went through as well! I can totally relate. I had never heard the gospel either!

[@laurabaker5179]

I’m absolutely crushed about this

[@seekingtruth1060]

I really value listening to this conversation and can relate in so many ways. It was always such a burden to carry when I was in the nar. Thankyou Jesus that salvation is because of what you did for me and not what I can do for you. I remember a time when I wanted to leave the church to just follow Jesus because I was so disappointed and disillusioned but didn't really know why. My journey out of the nar took a few years and praise God He kept me and continues to to keep me. Thankthe Lord to channels like this that have helped me tremendously

[@kaybrown4010]

May God bless you, Jesse! Thank you and Steve for sharing this important conversation. ❤️🙏🏻

[@Elliott05]

ALL.of.this. 👏🏻💯 My husband, son and I got away from Bethel and the NAR churches of the like. It’s amazing to me, to hear others share their story. American Gospel was key along with Voddie, Paul, Steve & Paulette, Chris R, Doreen Virtue, Spencer Smith and a few others….our family praises God for each of these precious people for speaking the truth. It’s the truth, the Gospel of Jesus Christ! We’ve been building a foundation on the Bible over the last 3 years. It was consistent work to break out of the narcissistic filter that wed been viewing the Word of God from. Jesse, out of curiosity, we live in OR but did “ministry” work in WA, were you familiar with The Rock of the Harbor Church?

[@phmoffett]

Thank you Steve

[@sophiaaimee7521]

Hey Steve have you ever considered doing a video on YWAM (Youth With a Mission)? I was part of the movement and it is very dangerous as well. Many are falling away from the faith. I think it qualifies as a cult very similar to bethel. I used to be a staff member of the ywam school in Redding (we worked with bethel). God bless you! This is powerful work! To God be the glory forever 🙌

[@punkaj82]

Thanks Steve for asking the question about what is the Gospel. It is important, that after all this family has been through, he can clearly state the message of the Gospel and communicate his trust in it.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Our channel is working on a series called "Bill's BS" - inspired by this discussion "Principal Kozar"! We love you and Paulette and the work you do.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Looking forward to seeing it!

[@SSJCyan]

It was very telling that he never heard the true gospel in 20 years in the NAR. That says everything.

[@thewestwoodhome]

true!

[@loweeization]

What a journey! So many people are suffering in the NAR movement. This interview gave a good look into the struggle and weight that heresy is putting on people. I think when sharing the gospel message we can't leave out the blood that was shed by Christ. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for our sins and iti s that blood that is the cleansing factor.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank you! glad you enjoyed it

[@keith3362]

The NAR movement? Is there a website? A statement of faith? Or is it just a term C Peter Wagner came up with, a man who is now gone and who was off in so many things?

[@marlenereimchen9141]

So funny because that's the same book that got us out of the NAR. It was what started the ball rolling and get us out of the church doors. As I'm listening to Jesse so much of what he said is so familiar to my story. I wasn't in Bethel but was heavily influenced by them and in the NAR for over 20 years. Thank you for this interview.

[@thewestwoodhome]

crazy! it does get you thinking

[@keith3362]

Does the NAR have a website? What about a leader of the whole thing? Or is it just a term coined by C Peter Wagner about something he claimed to be observing about the church globally?

[@rainh2o958]

This is all so familiar. I've grown up in the charismatic movement since 1970s going to a church close to Christ for the Nations in Dallas. Many of the teachers that came out of there ended up being part of the NAR. I've been to every kind of conference and involved with so many "big name" people over the years. I was very involved in ministry and part of a worship team for years. I opted out of everything 7 years ago and it's been quite a journey deconstructing everything I've ever known. I'm 58 yrs old and just now getting down to the real truth of scripture. It's so sad to think of so many years in deception. I honestly thought I was doing the right thing but always had some questions. I read Pagan Christianity 10 years ago and much of it resonated with me. In Dec 2019 I was extremely ill and in bed for weeks. That's when I saw American Gospel and everything started coming together. From there I was on to Paul Washer, Chris Rosebrough, Doreen Virtue, Justin Peters, this channel and many others. I'm so thankful to be following after truth now. But so many of my friends and family are still caught up in all this. It's a very strong deception. So glad you are sharing this.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks for watching

[@chrisburton8079]

This is why discernment ministries are important if just one person comes away from the madness of the NAR charismatic craziness then God rejoices thank you Steve Kozar Chris Rosebrough et cetera and in particular the American gospel movie

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank for listening!

[@ZeeroDubs]

This was excellent. Very similar to my journey. It's awesome to hear someone else going through their process of working through all of that.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you so much!

[@ZeeroDubs]

@@thewestwoodhome No, thank you!

[@hommerecorder7003]

Great Interwiew. Greatings from Swizerland.❤

[@Deacondan240]

Yes, the work of Christ and the gospel message stand apart as His work. Our work is to believe, as messages by Jesus in John 6:29. We cannot add to our salvation, but I do believe we live out the calling thru our choices and real faith will be seen by obedience. Great discussion!

[@Savedbygrace22]

I think Jesse made a great point to emphasize again. When he started looking at what cults believed he saw the similarities with the NAR he had been in his whole life. That must be such a terrifying experience to come to grips with. Like Chris Rosebrough said when the lightbulb went on, “I’m in a cult!” Praise God for his mercy to break the chains of deception.🙏✝️

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank you!

[@jennifersmith6863]

Good interview! Having a precious baby being rocked by his father just put the icing on the cake.

[@brentklein6143]

Being a worship leader this hits my heart so good and love this story

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@Standing.W.Israel]

I grew up in Redding, CA and Bethel has always been a big thing with youth predominantly but I never felt comfortable with that church- I know now that it was the Spirit protecting me from them but at the time it was like I seriously got the heebie-jeebies when Bethel was involved.

[@thewestwoodhome]

i always love hearing locals perspective on Bethel

[@cputeq007]

What a great interview! Thank God Jesse and wife were saved out of that system! God bless you Kozars for keeping up the fight.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank you!

[@THATjeffdelaney]

I worked with Derek Webb and Sandra McCracken back in the early 00's, and when he tried to share the gospel during breaks, he struggled so much to get even a full sentence of what it really was to him. I videoed their show, and when I edited down his soundbyte, I had about 7 minutes of him talking, and I could only get 7 seconds of anything close to meaningful. I had no idea he had gone away, but it all makes sense now - he never knew the truth.

[@thewestwoodhome]

CRAZY! Makes sense.

[@laurabaker5179]

I got heebie jeebies from DW too

[@mxcollin95]

I can totally, totally relate to this guys confusion and frustration from growing up exposed to bad theology. Still struggling to get a handle on it.

[@barrypalmquist8304]

Thank you so much for that interview. Just the reminder of the words of those old hymns brought me to tears.

[@fatfingertrading]

Thanks again Steve and Paulette

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks!

[@CharMinsky]

Shalom from SoCal campus 🙏🏼🕊🌠✝️😽💕✡️🙏🏼

[@thewestwoodhome]

hey hey!

[@ladyesther]

I went to a Mennonite service at least once and a potluck or something. They sure are good cooks! I also visited a Mennonite Brethren church which is a more modern Mennonite church. There was a mental framework that I had where I did not know there was any other branch of Christianity other than Charismatic. I am still learning about it all, but I am so glad I am not Charismatic anymore, however...I still need to check my thinking because sometimes some of that remains. A side note that I never understood what the people felt in worship at my former church. It was like they were having some sort of "experience" that I never felt. As I was listening to Jesse speak about the hymns I thought that worship is not a feeling, not an emotional experience. I want to just get back to the basic striped down elements without all that production of the modern Christian churches.

[@davidjohnson6538]

That's so sad I'm a normal charismatic I believe in the gifts as long as they're not abused I believe they offer today as long as they are in order and not cultist and in so many people in these articles are leaving the true cosmetic Church it wasn't true at all this Holly any real Biblical charismatic churches around so don't leave the true Holy Spirit moving and not being cultish and being a balanced word of God like in the book of Acts and the early New Testament unfortunately 75% of the churches are abusing the spirit of God in the move of God today and it becoming cultish because they're not really doing the balance word of God the remnant is very small the true remnant of church may God be true and every man alive all it takes is nine truths and One Lie and then the devil has his way

[@lisalancework7999]

Wonderful show!!! Sharing !!Jessies’s statement of what the gospel is made me cry it is so true and so perfect!!

[@facepalmingreformer8723]

Thankful for you brothers!!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for listening!

[@tonypasolli7334]

Thank you for your openness and vulnerability. Spiritual abuse does great harm to the soul. God bless you.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank you! Blessings

[@iw9338]

Excellent, thanks very much 🙏☺️💜this breaks my heart, but for the grace of God. I was caught up in word of faith nonsense, God is good 🙏

[@Weissguys6]

Steve, thank you for blessing us with Jesse’s testimony. May Our God use it to His glory. 🙏❤️🙏

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks for listenign!

[@Weissguys6]

@@thewestwoodhome new sub to you channel. ❤️❤️

[@Deacondan240]

Great talk. I’m a JP fan too. I am still in Pentecostal camp but strong in Bible authority. I believe the Bethel etc camp needs reformed!

[@brenmanock]

What a great discussion. Thanks for your honesty.

[@No_One_In_Particular_Today]

You have no idea how much I needed to watch this. Many thanks,

[@thewestwoodhome]

so glad to hear it! THank you

[@lindseyh5735]

Yep… even though my church didn’t do anything charismatic growing up I had no idea there were false Christian teachings - completely naive. So I heard about bethel and it just sounded awesome. I had no reason to think it wasn’t Christian at all. But… the church I went to was all over the place theologically and it still is, at the time it was pretty close to “purpose driven”. People there will tell you they love John MacArthur and Steven Furtick and not see any issues or contradiction.

[@NewYawkahBroad]

The biggest sleight of hand spiritually. It's revolting.

[@markmoore8399]

Can you share this comment with people at my old church? 😪

[@thewestwoodhome]

sorry to hear that

[@kamaehamae]

So Lindsey - are you still at that church? How is it going? Crazy how they can lump MacArthur and Furtick as faves! First time I heard of Bethel was their signs and wonders stuff - then somehow - I heard their music and were somehow legitimized in my brain. Music’s truly powerful - it can draw people nearer, make them confused, and even lead them astray…

[@lindseyh5735]

@@kamaehamae I’m not now, but I was until last year? The beginning of this year maybe. And all of our friends are still going. 😢

[@nicoleturner5808]

I really appreciate the discussion about music and how it can be worshipful or you can emotionally be jerked around.

[@thewestwoodhome]

totally! not talked about enough

[@denisesmith3544]

Wonderful conversation. So lovely seeing the precious little one.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank yoU! Elyda Jane is the best

[@CapoHJB]

This is very healing. Thanks for the extended interview.

[@thewestwoodhome]

@The Messed Up Church Thanks for having me Steve! I'll be making more content towards Bethel, adn the process since then. Feel free to follow the channel to follow along. LOVING all the comments and I'm gonna try to reply to all of them.

[@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch]

May God continue to guide you and bless you, my friend!! Thanks for the conversation!

[@kamaehamae]

Already subscribed to your channel, Jesse!! Looking forward to hearing more about your family’s faith journey!!! 😄

[@paulc7190]

Bethel (the ministry of the Holy Spirit) worked for me. I've been healed and delivered of my junk and am closer to God because of it.

[@bellabuggie972]

When I go to listen to the latest Kozar video to see my cousin being interviewed. Thanks Steve & Jesse

[@thewestwoodhome]

Cousin? DM Me you need to explain lol

[@deniemarie5010]

This was a great interview. God bless you Brothers.✝️📖🙏🤍

[@thewestwoodhome]

thank for listening!

[@dexxadax]

Thank you, Mr. Kozar and Mr. Westwood.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Our pleasure! THanks for listening.

[@deniseadkins2901]

It's sad because even Bethel students won't listen to him now. This proves Dr. MacArthur's point in the Strange Fire conference. He said that God has people in Bethel and that's why He allows all the foolishness. Thanks Steve.

[@davidknox5929]

McArthur is as bad!

[@thewestwoodhome]

i try to talk to alot of them

[@Dilley_G45]

Mac Arthur is a Calvinist. So everything is already predetermined from his view. I see wolves in sheep's clothing trying to do Satan's work and turn people away from the gospel and the Bible warns many times about that

[@Michelle-oe7vr]

Great interview. I came out of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement and now attend a. Biblically sound church. I remember my ex pastor used to call people who attended “conservative”churches “the frozen chosen”. Sad.

[@thewestwoodhome]

thanks for watcghing