Former Topgun Instructor & F-14 Tomcat RIO gives an Introduction to Fighter Radar (Dave Bio Baranek)

fightson.net/bio In this video, Dave "Bio" Baranek talks to me about Fighter Radar.
Note: This is a high level shorter video, NOT a 2 hour deep dive into everything you need to know about Radar in fighter jets.
Bio talks about Pulse vs Pulse Doppler, Mission planning & becoming proficient in using the radar (especially as an F-14 Tomcat Radar Intercept Officer).
Bio particularly talks about ground clutter as seen in a radar screen, and how it could negatively impact the use of a radar guided missile against a target. He then explains how technology advanced to help reduce that significantly.
Whether you're an air combat Flight sim fan (like DCS World), love the Tomcat (and who doesn't!) or just have an interest in military aviation in general, you'll learn something useful &/or interesting from Bio about radar and its importance to fighter combat.
BTW, radar is pretty important to an intercept, but Bio doesn't go too deep into the subject in this video, so here's a link to a separate video on the topic recorded by former F-14 Tomcat RIO Eric "Syphin" McMullen that you might want to check out: • Air Intercept Basics b...
Resources:
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Check out Bio's new book "Tomcat RIO" here: amzn.to/30XiHtz
Lastly, for more Military Aviation content, join the Fights On Facebook group, found here: / fightson
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For cool Military Aviation merchandise (including t-shirts, mugs, phone cases, etc), check out the Fight's On! Store here:
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[@321fightson]

Once you've watched the video, come join us in our FB Group. Lots of great military aviation content (videos, photos in particular) as well as some good folks to chat with, including retired & active fighter pilots, RIOs and even airline pilots. Join here: facebook.com/groups/fightson

[@johngisbourne7197]

super interesting, even more for us DCS players. Thank you so much !

[@321fightson]

Hi @John Gisbourne. Glad to hear you enjoyed it, and yes, we both figured it would be of real interest to DCS players. :-)

[@MILSPECMOM]

That's what brought me here! lol Well that and Ward.

[@sergeyberlin3264]

Bio is an excellent teacher.

[@321fightson]

Sign of a well trained Topgun instructor @Sergey Berlin. Thanks for watching & commenting. :-)

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

Cool, all of BIO's little lessons and talks are awesome. Can't wait for the campaign for the F-14 he's working on with Reflected Simulations, which will tie in nicely in the future with Heatblur's F-14A being released very shortly.

[@321fightson]

Hi @Pricklyhedgehog72 & thanks for your kind words. Yep, that new campaign is going to be great. We'll be working on some interviews about them when we get closer to the release date.

[@katout75]

The Hughes "Introduction to Airborne Radar" is an excellent book, I have a copy myself. Great introduction/reference manual, learn everything from radar range equation to pulse doppler filters (analog or FFT), pulse compression, mono-pulse,...

[@fredsage9122]

Your reference to "Window" as a very experienced F-14 RIO was interesting. By any chance is the same Window that was my junior RIO in VF-24 in the early 80's. His name was John Sill (thus the callsign Window) and if so, it's good to know he had a successful career.

[@fredsage9122]

@Dave-Laura Baranek Thanks for confirming "Windows" that you referenced is the same John Sill who was my RIO during his nugget cruise. If you have contact information, I'd appreciate you sending same. I'd like to catch up with John and see how his life unfolded. Fred Sage

[@15Indianajon]

Could listen to Bio all day! Great vid and can't wait for the next one.

[@321fightson]

Thanks @Jonathan Webster. :-)

[@f-14calvertonatg]

Awesome Job Guys! 👍

[@321fightson]

Thanks :-)

[@kkarnet]

Introduction to airborne radar. Several editions on Amazon. As an Electronic Technician in the United States Navy, I will be purchasing all of them. I was a fleet sailor. You Brown Shoes are a whole different Navy. God speed....you know the rest.

[@beepIL]

That was awesome

[@321fightson]

Thanks @beepIL. Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@joekurtz8303]

One reason why Math is an important subject in engineering these components. A formula algorithm written out for a microprocessor can take up a Whole lab/ office room, just for one function .

[@MIKE-dj8gv]

Awesome 👏

[@321fightson]

Thanks 🤗

[@simtaylor61]

I wish he would have gone a little deeper in the F14 actual systems in how it relates to the info he was passing along, but a damn good lesson none the less

[@321fightson]

Hi @Sim Taylor. Apologies for the slow reply. Bio deliberately didn't want to get too deep into the subject. It was meant to be a very high level intro to the subject. Glad you enjoyed it regardless.

[@calum5696]

Fairly sure the AWG10, 11 &12 Radar systems used by the F4s from the 1960s onward used pulse/chirp & pd radars in one form or another prior to the introduction of the F14s into service

[@mightyjimbo7681]

Yes we had PD on F4J and S which was AWG-10A and B.

[@dandlb]

Correction accepted, thanks. I overlooked that.

[@viktorkarlsson4900]

This is great stuff! :D

[@321fightson]

Thanks @Viktor Karlsson. Glad you enjoyed it :-)

[@AvengerII]

Didn't the J-model of F-4 introduce a pulse doppler radar first? I'm pretty sure it did. That was the AWG-10 system. All the British Phantoms used the same radar set as the F-4J.

[@katout75]

Yes, the F-4J AWG-10 and F-4E APQ-120 radars both were pulse Doppler

[@AvengerII]

@@katout75 The AWG-10 was a more capable air-to-air system than the APQ-120 from what I understand. Of course, if a client state bought the F-4E, the APQ-120 was the radar system they would get. To my knowledge, only the UK operated Phantom variants (F-4K, -M, and J/UK) that had the US Navy radar system (AWG-10). The UK Phantoms were operated in mainly air-to-air roles as I understand it. The RF-4s and E-model variants had narrower diameter noses than the B/N, C, D, and J/S models. The nose of the RF-4 was adapted for the F-4E because it could house the M61 assembly (but it still had an external muzzle fairing for the barrels; the fairing had to be redesigned later because of an issue with exhaust gases being sucked into the engine inlets) when they redesigned the interior layout of the F-4's forward fuselage. I'm sure it cost McD some money to do that but at least they had a piece of hardware (the "new" nose) they didn't have to reinvent completely! I think contrary to some popular belief, the longer-ranged, more powerful radar have greater diameter dishes/flat plates. Can't get away from the big nose!

[@dandlb]

Correction accepted, thanks. I'll use this info the next time I talk about the subject.

[@AvengerII]

@@katout75 The J-model preceded the E-model in service entry. The J-model and E were developed in roughly the same period and the prototypes for both flew within 3-5 months, the YF-4J (May 1965) preceding the YF-4E (summer 1965; I might have read August 1965 on Joe Baughner's website). They talked about an F-4 model with an internally mounted cannon as early as 1961 but it wasn't funded until 1965! Baughner's sections on the history of the F-4 models has information I haven't seen anywhere else online. You definitely won't find the nitty gritty details on Wikipedia, that's for sure! The J-model had fewer engineering issues and entered service first, late 1966. The E-models required more debugging -- first the issue with the gun installation (at least 2 gun installation designs during service; nothing unusual there -- they changed the gun vents on both the F-16 and F-14 during their service, too!) and redoing the avionics configuration to accommodate the gun AND shrink the radar (really a new radar unit just like the AWG-10 was introduced on the J-model; neither radar unit was retrofit to the earlier models in service) to fit the "new" nose. It was a much more involved redesign from the D-model to the E-model than from the F-4B to the F-4J.

[@Inkling777]

In the movie "Top Gun," they're unable to see how many planes they're closing with. I've worked with radar, and you can often pick multiple returns that are close together on an A-scope. It shows the return by range along with the amplitude of the return. Expand that return to display on the target/targets and you can separate them out unless their range is exactly the same. Did the F-14 radar or any modern ones have that? www.radartutorial.eu/12.scopes/sc05.en.html

[@dandlb]

Remember, the movie was fictional and they didn't get detailed technical info from Navy personnel. The F-14 radar had good target discrimination. In the movie, the intent was to show the Tomcat guys getting surprised by the "MiGs" flying so close together that they were not broken out by the radar.

[@rossandcarol]

@@dandlb Bio. Great video. You were a TOPGUN instructor when I went through in 1986. I sucked, so everything I learned there was extremely valuable. One thing that sticks in my head when you mentioned not much time was spent on radar. As I recall, the 6 weeks was almost all dedicated to ACM. While there were a few hops utilizing F-pole, A-pole, etc., it would seem that the longer course today would probably spend more time on this given the fact that Bandit ID for BVR shots has become more reliable. I know, like me, you've been out of the cockpit for awhile now, but as a Midway docent this would be a "nice to know" when answering questions should you have any insight on the modern syllabus.

[@dandlb]

@@rossandcarol Hi, Bosco! I remember you well! Yes, the intercept has become much more complicated than it was in the mid-1980s. To give you an unclassified source, Brad Elward's recent book "TOPGUN: The Legacy" describes how instructors put in a lot of time and effort planning intercept tactics, and of course teaching them and having the students use them during the class. I saw this very clearly in my final flying tour (1996-98) and it has gotten more complicated. But training for every pilot and WSO in every squadron is now better, thanks to the SFWT program. I hope that helps!

[@Scoobydcs]

my understanding of notching is, you hide in the doppler filter. is that right or not?

[@321fightson]

Hi @eatthisvr6 & thanks for your question. I believe there might be some truth to that. Your best bet is to do a search on the topic here on YT. I have run across 1 or 2 videos discussing the topic in DCS.

[@dandlb]

That is basically it, yes.

[@THEQuantumBacon]

@@dandlb When you suspect a notch, would you generally switch to pulse mode and attempt to find the most suspect return, have the pilot offset, or some combination of both?

[@dandlb]

@@THEQuantumBacon If you're using an AWG-9, switching to pulse may be your best choice.

[@richall9654]

If I'm understanding Bio correctly, an enemy fighter could beat the radar by being only slightly faster than the F-14's velocity, on a slight merge angle from a rear/low climbing position. If so, was there a counter measure to avoid such a tactic?

[@321fightson]

Hi there @Ric Hall. There's a few videos on YT talking about beating the radar. Worth a look.

[@dandlb]

That's not exactly it. I watched the segment again and I did not go into a detailed explanation, but as Fight's On says, you can check out other videos and online articles.

[@AvengerII]

" If so, was there a counter measure to avoid such a tactic?" Upgrade to the APG-71! Faster central processing units, 6 times the data processing throughput, and much more memory than the AWG-9. 60% reworked from the AWG-9 and about as much percentage-wise digital. A much more reliable unit which had plenty of room for expansion which it really didn't get. They talked about integrating mapping modes into the radar like the F-15E since it would have been doable to introduce similar programming for ground attack modes. It was mostly based on the radar tech of the F-15E radar (APG-70; also a Hughes product like the AWG-9 was) and leveraged the Strike Eagle tech to reduce development costs and make it easier and faster to introduce the APG-71 and F-14 into the fleet. This was in the days I think contractors were more responsive to budget crunches and didn't screw around. That took care of a lot of the problems the original AWG-9 had. Too bad only 55 D-models got funded...

[@321fightson]

Yeh, an upgrade to the APG-71 would have been great, but as you know, that was far too late for most of the Tomcats, except for the D's. Not sure if any of the B's got it as well, or perhaps if they did, it was only while passing from B to D?

[@ghostdog688]

DCS nerd and not a real RIO or pilot here: Keeping the contact out the notch filter is the important factor, or using Pulse Search if the contact is above you. This means keeping the closure rate out of the notch by adjusting speed or aspect, or going below the contact and switching to pulse search. You use all the tools you have - and speed, altitude and nose position are tools as well as the radar modes :)

[@richardhenry3054]

I was in VF-2 with then Lt. Dave “BIO” Baranek and he sure didn’t master the AWG-9 during that tour! 1987-1990. A lot going on with that Radar. XO CDR Serhan NEVER got good.

[@kkarnet]

I was a fleet sailor. Electronic Technician. At 50, I figure. How does airborne radar work. Ended up here. I already bought the "introduction to airborne radar" off Amazon while watching this video.

[@dandlb]

Interesting comment, shipmate. I remember you from our deployments in VF-2, and I'm curious why you think I didn't master the AWG-9 then? Did I write stupid VIDS/MAFS?

[@user-cg7uv3mh9f]

@@dandlb There's always someone who's gotta be negative. (Richard Henry)

[@Wolf-cq3hw]

RIP Serhan was the best RIO I ever worked with from 1975 till 2005. The problem most junior AQ and AT's had with RIP is he was smarter than them and he could troubleshoot better than they could. By the way I was an AQ and I have forgotten more about the AWG-9 AND AWG-15 then most people know.

[@freakycat1795]

Maby be It's just a giant bird on the radar screen

[@321fightson]

LOL @Freaky Cat. Yep, those giant birds (or dragons) are a big risk for fighters without pulse doppler radar ;-)

[@user-cg7uv3mh9f]

Who the heck gave the 2 thumbs-down??

[@dandlb]

Yeah!

[@321fightson]

some disgruntled MiG28 pilot would be my guess! :-)

[@generalshepherd457]

You get more chills when you get older. So you have to wear a jacket to avoid covid

[@miamijules2149]

Why does he think we’re having such a hard time with look down/shoot down, pulse doppler radar and ground clutter? It isn’t esoteric or ethereal gentlemen.... we have a fuckin’ clue.

[@dandlb]

Roger, thanks for the comment. I was thinking of the people who may watch this and haven't spent a lot of time thinking about radar. You need to go to the advanced class.

[@321fightson]

Not everybody knows everything about radar. No need to be rude. The guy is a former Top Gun instructor. He knows his shit AND he knows his audience aren't all radar experts!