Formic Pro vs Varroa Mite Infestation | Did it Work?

[@Hivetown]

Hi Bruce, Tom Nolan here from NOD Apiary Products here. First, thanks for the video and for trying our Formic Pro on your Apimaye hive. The white eco-paper wrap should stay on. This white eco-paper wrap works as a wick to control the formic acid vapour release. Without controlled release, the formic acid vapour releases much faster and can be hard on the colony. The good news is you applied the product below the upper temperature limit and you had plenty of ventilation by removing the entrance reducer, which helped minimize any potential damage to the colony. I suspect you would have had less bearding and higher efficacy had the eco-paper been left on. Let's have another phone chat or do another video for your subscribers to go over the application process.

[@brucesbees]

Sounds great. Thanks for clearing that up Tom. I guess I goofed but glad things worked out ok. Look forward to chatting soon!

[@pčelarstvoležaić]

Hi, what are recomended temepratures for aplication. I've seen your product in Croatian beemagazine and it seems like good stuff. Can you write link for more info. Thanks

[@brucesbees]

nodglobal.com/

[@paulbunyan1682]

Tom, I have used Formic Pro in the past. I have used it as directed (leaving wrapper on and temp. Requirements) and when using two strips at a time I have had massive die offs and numerous queens LOST. I have a friend that has had the same problems. Formic pro is too hard on the bees. It’s pretty funny that we are seeing more videos on “is Formic Pro hard on bees”. It must be a problem if all these videos are coming out.

[@andrewmcmullen1388]

I've used Formic pros last year, loved them. I've heard about the queen issues so I was very particular when I applied. Forecast under 85 for first few days, etc. Treated 10 hives, no issues.

[@brucesbees]

Good to hear!

[@markk4861]

You need to keep the paper wraps on each pad. It helps regulate the release of the formic over time. Next time remove the pads from the foil wrapper and place directly onto the frames.

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@markk4861]

If temps were higher it might have caused an issue at that time but the cooler spring temps may have saved you this time.

[@brucesbees]

Yep. Max temps are 85F. Temps were in the low 80s.

[@researcherAmateur]

Like l wrote many times over the last year.. apply those in a plastic bag with a slit cut according to colony size. I see the producer finally made the bags for it

[@Dave-qn5lm]

You are supposed to leave the paper wraps on, as it acts as a wick for the formic vapor...You can also put a honey super on so the bees have more room and to increase air flow...

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@lindseyhomesteadfarm2653]

I have been using Formic pro for 4 years and really like the results. Great video Bruce.

[@brucesbees]

Thank you.

[@brucesbees]

I am pleased with the results. Will definitely be adding this to my mite treatment toolbox.

[@randymccracken8914]

Bruce I use Formic pro all the time you aren’t supposed to remove the outer paper from the treatment before putting it on the colonies. I believe it states that in the directions. It there to slow the initial gas off

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@KajunHomestead]

That's a great test, and I think you are right about how bees react when they are sick or infested with mites.

[@brucesbees]

I believe it to be true as well.

[@frankspataro9714]

It's hard on my bees in late summer but even harder on mites and seems to really help get em through the winters

[@brucesbees]

Seemed to work well.

[@bluewingfarms2208]

Even in Saskatchewan, Canada I have been worried about using Formic Pro because of it’s reputation for killing queens. You have done a good interview. We are not able to use Apiguard in Canada so definitely need other tools to treat mites. Good videos.👍

[@ziggyswetlandhoneybees]

Hi Bruce, others are right NOD says to leave the paper on. I do hope you get them mites though. I've used Formic Pro for a few years now, I've had no issues that I could notice, and if any brood was slowed down as you say not a bad thing either. Good luck with that hive.

[@honeyandthecoop803]

I'm glad you tested and shared your experience using Formic Pro with us Bruce, interesting to see someone testing it and not just repeating all the negative talk about this product.

[@brucesbees]

Thanks for checking in. Seemed to work well.

[@GeorgeCMcRae]

I've had great success with Formic Pro. A program many of us and the SF Bay area adopted was: hit them with the formic then OA shop towels or Swedish dish towels when you remove the formic pads. Also many of did a two step formic treatment: one pad for ten days, then add the second for another 10 days, then the OA towels.

[@brucesbees]

Good stuff. Thanks for checking in!

[@WildwoodsBeekeeping]

Mite count Looks Good, That formic surely Helped it. Also Congrats on the 20k, Good stuff Bruce

[@brucesbees]

Thanks Grayson!

[@dolezalhoneybees9329]

We use formic pro some of the time and have had good results. Usually use the one pad and then replace with another at 14 days. Have been pleased with outcomes.

[@brucesbees]

Good to hear

[@markespich8574]

I haven’t started yet,but I have been filling my brain with knowledge from you and a couple others and a family operation in Lake Wales,Florida. And believe I will start this year and give it a go. So keep doing your great work so I can keep learning. I thank you very much.

[@brucesbees]

Yes. You should give it a try. Sounds like you are ready!

[@toddknecht2106]

After watching your video with NOD, I will be doing the two strip method, I didn’t realize single strip treatment didn’t kill mites under caps! Thanks for the videos!

[@brucesbees]

Yes. Very informative. The truth is I knew very little about Formic Pro before I spent that day with Tom.

[@offshoot1008]

I used formic last season . Our mite count in canada was 0 . I had decided to use formic just in case there were mites . We administered it in the afternoon and by the next day i had 2 queens dead outside and a pile of dead bees. Seeing how many were dying i quickly removed the formic . It was oct and it was too late to purchase any queens. My hives are doing fine but i do not know if they were able to requeen themselves. I will look for eggs on our next inspection when our temperatures are warm . I have no faith in the product . Glad your experience was better. Mr Nolan was professional on the telephone but could not help. Im stuck with a box of Formic pro that i do not want to use . For now i will stick with OA .

[@brucesbees]

Sorry to hear about this. I was pretty nervous about the product but it worked out pretty well for me in this case (small sample size). Even though I applied it wrong.

[@micheleirwin2959]

Hey Bruce! I’ve been wanting to use formic pro but have been hesitant because I worry about my queens. Thanks so much for this video. I feel much better about trying it now! Keep ‘‘em coming!

[@brucesbees]

Hay this la Michele. Several folks have told me I shouldn’t have removed the paper wraps. I sent Tom a question about it. Will pin the response when I get it. Either way it worked well. Just have to use it under the right conditions.

[@masonh2260]

I love seeing the Brood patterns after formic. They bounce back so hard, you will have sheets of brood afterwards. It's absolutely amazing imo.

[@brucesbees]

Yes I am looking forward to seeing how the bees respond.

[@GrammyMidwife]

Good to see great outcome with the Formic pro!

[@brucesbees]

Yes it seemed to work well.

[@jeffreyhoskins8955]

Thanks for the info I really liked the interview with Tom I think that cleared up some rumors or bad experience’s that some have had for whatever reasons temps EXTRA keep up the good work

[@brucesbees]

Yeah Tom did a great job of explaining things. It was a good day.

[@randyneese7902]

I live in the foothills of n.c . I treated mine last Thursday with FORMIC pro. The first two days , one of my hives had hundreds of dead bees in front of ground in my strongest hive. The other hive had a few dead bees in fro t of it. The strong hive was bring out dead larvae’s d dead bees. I was conceived had killed my bees but they seem to be working now and going back to business as usual. I havnt opened the hives because of the directions says to wait to after treatment. We will see if the queens survived.

[@brucesbees]

This treatment seemed to work to perfection in this hive. It is a little hard on the bees but even harder on the mites!

[@edwardmonsour6995]

Yes! What Tom Nolan said. Please post pic of formic pros box hazard statement for others to see. This product should NOT!! Be inhaled. Thank you.

[@brianl.8610]

I used on 5 strong hives in late Aug, was worried for the 1st day. All bearded and thought the may abscond the hive. Lost about 1 or 2 cups bees per hive. Now in Oct they are very strong. I have hi hopes all 5 will make it through the winter. In northern Wisconsin.

[@davidryle1164]

See the exact same behaviour with Apiguard, even at half dose, when it's first applied. Bearding like crazy for the first day or two, they soon settle down and get back to business. I'll be using Formic this year too.

[@brucesbees]

Yep. Both are pretty harsh but seem to work well.

[@lagrangebees]

That looked pretty good with impressive results. I should start using more variety in my treatments to avoid breeding resistant mites.

[@brucesbees]

Yeah I decided last year to start testing and mixing it up a bit. So far has worked out pretty well I think.

[@larryschoenberger7957]

Hi Bruce, you may consider remoistening those pads and place them back on for a while? Just a thought...???

[@brucesbees]

I think they had pretty much used up their efficacy. Would have had to reapply new ones I think. But happy with the results.

[@Steele_Wings]

I used that in the fall but have learned to put wax paper under the strip to prevent the solution from dropping on the queen and brood.

[@andrewmcmullen1388]

I used expired MAQ's...they were nasty , oozed all over. Formic pro i used last year was pretty solid no dripping whatsoever

[@caseyolson0369]

If you do it in the fall when the queen slows down, it's fine. That's what I do. And as I understand it, it only really shuts her down and is the worst the first three days. But I am in Texas, so that helps.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Track that count 10 days later from that last test , see if the counts increase again. It would be interesting to see if the mites under the cappings are dead

[@brucesbees]

I may have to pull another sample. I have actually hit them with a couple of OAV treatments since then to knock down the phoretic mites.

[@cluelessbeekeeping1322]

Awesome! Your question about pissy bees & mites...I'd agree with you. I was given a hive which was really angry. I took them out to the sticks and put them in my equipment. When transferring them...I couldn't believe how many small hive beetles I saw. One frame, particularly bad was with solid capped brood & open brood. I even left it out when putting them back together...then I thought, heck, they're doing fine even with this infestation (so I put that frame back in). Next time I went into that hive the small hive beetles were GONE. They were also perfectly civil! I totally believe bees get frantic/antsy/desperate when being attacked. They act just like when getting robbed. They sting anything near by! The reason that guy had such high small hive beetles is because he had a coy pond. The ground was absolutely perfect breeding ground for small hive beetles.

[@brucesbees]

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[@jimallen1176]

Good job Bruce. Makes me want to try it. I think the bees temperament is affected by the mites too, as well as small hive beatles.

[@brucesbees]

I tend to agree.

[@raterus]

If you don't know, you can make your own formic pads, which are much cheaper than Formic Pro. I got a gallon of 65% Formic Acid off ebay, and also got some 4x7 "Safepro Uz40 meat pads" they use when packaging up meat. Each pad will gulp up about 3 Tbsp. of acid, then you stick them on the bees like you did. You also should wear gloves and a respirator when handling these. Note: This might not exactly be legal in the USA.

[@danschneider9219]

At those mite levels I would almost call that hive a fail here up north, not a chance it would survive my winter in Wisconsin. I still have two feet of snow and maple is a long way off.

[@brucesbees]

We are blessed to have mild winters here.

[@jamestownsendjrtbees3226]

Those mites got nuked with that high powered formic without the rap, lol. I see no other option when you find colonies with that many mites. Formic definitely works. Good luck with your bees.

[@mrtraumaboyy4098]

Great Job Bruce!! How often would you repeat this TX?? Congrats on 20k!!

[@brucesbees]

Thanks my friend. Formic Pro is temperature so it is probably only a spring or fall treatment. I think it is a good one to use coming out of winter.

[@russellkoopman3004]

Hey, you hit 20k subs. Great job Bruce.

[@brucesbees]

Yeah it’s fun. Still a long ways to go.

[@stephaniedraper5172]

Going forward absolutely do not remove the paper, especially in Alabama where it gets so hot.

[@brucesbees]

Yep.

[@brucesbees]

It actually worked ok. Did you see the follow up video?

[@randyneese7902]

Don’t take it out of paper wrapper. That controls the release of the acid. It will be to strong if you take paper wrapper off of the treatment

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@sonofthunder.]

im sure the vented lids help,i left half the foil on for extended release

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@DialedN_07]

Putting those patties on cleared the top of the box better than the smoke! Lol

[@brucesbees]

Yep. But only lasted for a few hours. And within a couple of days it was “business as usual.”

[@sonofthunder.]

did you pull the tray,to see what dropped

[@brucesbees]

I did but it was hard to tell. There were quite a few mites mixed in with some other waste.

[@sonofthunder.]

@@brucesbees yeah my trays were neglected w ditritis (junk),so i used boiling water and wipe them clean, used the polken trap feature,and in a week that thing was loaded, i filled about a quart,and tried some for the first time,in yougurt,in cereal,etc...interesting like dippin dots,but chalky,slight sweetness ,w aftertaste,...now im working on electric fence set up for my apiary 20colonies i hope this season ,to keep cows away,just about ready to get busy splitting and gunna try queen grafting

[@bills3851]

I get much better results with the one pad at a time option. Easier on the bees and harder on the mites.

[@timlewis9873]

This is my 4th yr using Formic Pro.I have no proplems so far.

[@brucesbees]

Good to hear.

[@Steele_Wings]

Still had to OA treat after because of all the bees hanging outside the hive during treatment.

[@brucesbees]

They were only out there for a few hours. It is a 2 week treatment. The bees basically acted exactly as Tom Nolan (Formic Pro) rep said they would after testament. I think 30 down to 8 mites in a wash is a pretty good kill. Used OAV to hopefully clean them on up.

[@sonofthunder.]

how was your temps

[@brucesbees]

Well within the instructions. Highest temps were low 80s

[@uswwt]

Classic KZbin knowledge sharing here 😂 if I were to share my knowledge online, I probably will make sure I read and follow the instructions very carefully.

[@brucesbees]

Did you watch the follow up video?

[@التداويبالرقيةالشرعيةوالاعشاب]

عمل موفق باذن الله تعالى أخي الكريم

[@russellkoopman3004]

I am surprised that you still washed 8 mites. It seems none of the treatments kills 95% anymore. OA sponges would be my goto now if I were in your shoes but it still isn't registered as a legal treatment yet. Maybe some OAV two or three more time in the next two week would help some. You could requeen with a VSH queen from Cory.

[@brucesbees]

Yeah all good points. I hit them with a couple of diese of OAV. I was pretty happy with the results. 30 to 8 was a huge improvement.

[@Hivetown]

I believe we have have seen better efficacy had the eco-paper not been removed. Removing the paper caused most of the vapouring off to happen like a flash treatment instead of working over a period of several days.

[@russellkoopman3004]

@@Hivetown That makes sense. There was so much brood in Bruces boxes. I suspect Bruce would have seen less brood loss is he would have left the paper on. Hopefully viewers will learn from Bruce's woops. LOL

[@markespich8574]

Did you read the directions?

[@brucesbees]

Yes but apparently missed or misinterpreted the detail that the paper wraps need to stay on. Still seemed to work well.

[@dsenkow5788]

Would you use Formica Pro on a struggling hive?

[@brucesbees]

I probably wouldn’t.

[@brianl.8610]

No

[@markespich8574]

They’re all hopped up on that might poison.

[@brucesbees]

Doubtful. The potency of the Formic Pro had long since been used up.

[@mschroed99]

Leave the paper wraps on lol

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@corky86]

You're not suppose to take the paper off. Pretty sure you'll see a lot of mortality

[@brucesbees]

Fortunately I did not have a lot of mortality but when I realized my mistake I made this video to hopefully help others: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWa2mWhtr8R4nsUsi=YV1VT46Ch89YTsUB

[@corky86]

@@brucesbees excellent, glad it worked out.

[@tjones2ful]

I agree with other people. Leave the paper on.

[@brucesbees]

Went back and looked at the directions and you are probably right. Though it wasn’t extremely clear to me and must have missed it. Fortunately it worked out for me. I sent a message to Tom for clarification. Will pin his answer when I get it.

[@davidmaloney2724]

I think bees that beard out are thé wounded ones

[@chad-mcc]

Maybe read the instructions before making a video on how to use it?

[@brucesbees]

Well I spent an afternoon with Tom Nolan, the North American Rep for Formic Pro. I did read the directions. And I even called him before application. I guess I possibly missed something? I sent him a message for clarification after seeing all these comments. This is not a “how to”video on using Formic Pro. I think I was pretty clear that it was my first time using it. More of a “let me try it and see how it works for me video.” And the product worked beautifully. So what I did must not have been all that bad. Just sayin. But thanks for reminding me that I should read the directions. I will keep that in mind in the future.

[@chad-mcc]

@@brucesbees in your interview with him he specifically discussed the role of the wicking paper wrapping. The instructions say "DO NOT REMOVE THE ECO-PAPER WRAP - IT ACTS AS A WICK" in all caps and bold font.

[@brucesbees]

Ok. So here is my thought process. If you are interested. There is a white thick wax paper type wrap. And then the actual Formic Pro strips have a thin layer of paper type substance with small slits in it. If you watch the video you will see me looking at it closely. Is it beyond belief that it could have not been clear to me? To me thin paper with slits had the appearance of a “wick” much more that thicker white paper. If I screwed up I apologize but I must say the product worked just fine and exactly as Tom said it would so I am not concerned about it. I will pin Tom’s response when I get it. Thanks for watching.

[@brianl.8610]

I used on 5 strong hives in late Aug, was worried for the 1st day. All bearded and thought the may abscond the hive. Lost about 1 or 2 cups bees per hive. Now in Oct they are very strong. I have hi hopes all 5 will make it through the winter. In northern Wisconsin.