Forza Motorsport on Xbox Series X/S: The Digital Foundry Tech Review

[@TenCoNesnasiGoogl]

Just a tiny bit of clarification. The crowds are less dense when driving in practice session compared to the actual race session. Just like in real life more people will come to the actual race and skip the practice.

[@LatinLegacyNY]

What Turn 10 was able to do with the Xbox One hardware was nothing short of amazing. Even with all of the sacrifices, the game still looks superb six years later.

[@TerraWare]

I was actually comparing FM7 a little over a year ago on my oled TV running on a PC at native 4K maxed out, it looked a bit better than GT7 on my PS5. Looking forward to checking this one out when it comes out for sure.

[@robertlawrence9000]

@@TerraWare 🤡

[@there-is-no-handle-available0]

That's not explaining it well enough, sure FM7 looks terrible compared to FM8/Forza Motorsport, but the fact that Turn 10 managed to get FM7 run at native 1080p 60FPS WITH MSAA on the OG Xbox One is nothing short of amazing, same with The Coalition's Gears 4 and 5. That console generation had very underpowered CPUs, yet these two studios did it, somehow.

[@outdoorsjoe]

Yep and they said that was only using 70% of the One X's power.

[@helloguy8934]

​@@outdoorsjoeUh. Ok

[@crestofhonor2349]

I'd love to see a comparison between GT7 and Forza now that both are out on their current gen consoles. Similar to how it was done with GT Sport and FM7 a few years back. Would love to see the video in HDR again as usual because that looked incredible

[@mtdubdachamp6917]

The HDR is probably sexy as hell in this game. My buddy just got his series X so I will be going to see for myself 😂.

[@thanksbetotap]

John already said he’s going to make one (in November)!

[@allaboutmicrosoft8807]

there is one on the ign channel

[@allaboutmicrosoft8807]

@MicheleKalina704 what? There is a comparsion Video on ign for Gt7 and forza

[@stevejohnson8994]

​@MicheleKalina704Unsurprising someone from IGN is spewing fanboy BS

[@Blizniak666]

Great work. I really enjoyed the detailed comparison with Forza 7 as it really showcases what's actually changed generation to generation.

[@eSKAone-]

Can't wait for the comparison to GT7 💟🌌☮️

[@THU31]

I feel like there was a bigger difference between FM2, 3 and 4 just on Xbox 360, than between 7 and "8". Diminishing returns are definitely hitting hard. I'm still excited to play, I'm definitely hungry for a track racing game. But just looking at the previews, I'm not really seeing a "next-gen" game six years in the making.

[@electus1]

@THU31 It's more about physics for me. I can't wait to try them out. Yes, they have more GPU grunt to work with in order to make it look a little more pretty, but they are really trying to take advantage of the improved CPUs.

[@thatsjustprime8096]

​@@THU31Same here, but at least the foliage looks better🤔🤣🤣

[@TaIIer]

@@THU31because the graphical leap between Xbox 360 to Xbox One was very noticeable compared to the graphical standard we have now. That’s why game companies focus more on Frame Rate and Ray Tracing instead of Ultra Real graphics.

[@blessedred]

RTAO seems to dramatically improve visuals on the game. Good to see them using it.

[@Zeryth960]

that's because it seems like instead of RTAO the other option is no AO at all.

[@originalityisdead.9513]

​@Zeryth960 Like how games with RT Shadows tend to have absolutely obysmal shadows unless you use RT shadows compared to one's that don't have RT as an option.

[@Zeryth960]

@@originalityisdead.9513 seems like it yeah, or RT reflections vs no reflections or just cubemaps.

[@Samurasa.]

RTAO is Ray tracing?

[@Khn90]

It's too expensive, tho.

[@aaralynhall]

Having reserved my judgment until I actually played the game… I gotta say it’s pretty incredible. I’m having a fantastic time. The tracks are pretty immersive as well.

[@theone2be33]

You're one in a million then. I cannot agree

[@FormulaProg]

Lol on a controller I bet

[@PhyrexJ]

One in a million? Dont be so dramatic. A lot of people like the game, get off your high horse@@theone2be33

[@b4ttlemast0r]

They definitely need to give the option for full RT reflections in the PC version

[@hdhdhhehe6709]

The main takeaway is that no racing game will EVER be able to compete with Gran Turismo…. The power of PS5 tech is just too complex yet streamlined to replicate.

[@WLLM1]

@@hdhdhhehe6709 What in the hell are you talking about?

[@hdhdhhehe6709]

@@WLLM1 sorry man. Your chose the losing side. Forza will always be inferior

[@willuigi64]

@@hdhdhhehe6709 What the hell are you gabbing about?

[@hdhdhhehe6709]

@@willuigi64 Your tombstone: “here lies Xbot, never got to play Gran Turismo!”

[@willuigi64]

I'm sure it looks a lot better in hdr, but the color grading here is just a tad flat. I find this to look a lot better than FM7. Materials, image stability, features, but the drop in clarity to fix up specular and instability with TAA rather than MSAA is not a strict upgrade. It makes a lot of sense seeing as basically this game's entire graphical goal was to improve materials.

[@flyingplantwhale545]

Go back and check out the reveal trailer. This looks NOTHING like what we were shown back there. A massive downgrade, not only in lighting but straight up missing or heavily downgraded world assets.

[@zuraidey]

GT7 using MSAA or TAA?

[@Noah-Lach]

Unpopular opinion: I would take superior baked lighting over dynamic time progression any day. Look at what Mirror's Edge was able to achieve with its lighting model a decade and a half ago. Racing games could look absolutely unreal if that technique was applied to modern games.

[@athena9029]

There's a reason why films use controlled lighting... RT has not made gaming any better, if anything, has worsen the performance.

[@carpelunam]

Thats what Im saying, even in movies they dont even use natural light so why are we so obsessed with it.@@athena9029

[@af4396]

I don't know, I would agree with every other game, but GT7 imo nailed its Dynamic ToD lighting model... It looks photorealistic. Forza, and all other games, not so much.

[@TheJayson8899]

RT absolutely has its place, but using it as a fix-all solution is the wrong way to go about it, and it’s yet another automated process that takes away from handcrafted artistry and makes every product look similar to each other.

[@The_Legend117]

forza 7 looks better and it has x8 MSAA

[@shiru8bit]

I kinda prefer the 7 looks, despite of less complex geometry and not so advanced lighting. It looks bright, shiny, and lively, and the latest one is just flat and boring to my eye.

[@FarmYardGaming]

7 was my least favourite, it didn't look as lively to my eyes as anything from Motorsport 3 onwards and everything felt either exaggerated or underdone

[@UltraCasualPenguin]

Maybe try FM5/6 instead. Clear, sharp visuals. No realistic nonsense.

[@robertlawrence9000]

Yeah those road and grass textures surely took a hit. I wonder if they have any moving detailed grass like they have in GT7.

[@HaloXeon]

I didn't enjoy 7, but the visuals weren't the problem. However, I'm concerned how frequently I prefer how 7 looks in comparison. The new reflections are distractingly low res.

[@Episode_13]

No it doesn't. It's time of day dude. Jesus.

[@liveandlearnj3209]

New game looks better overall but I prefer some of the cheats being used in FM7 like crowds. I think this game shows some of those tricks had value for the final result to casual observers. At least it's stable 60 fps. A lot of games go crazy w/ trade offs but still have a poor framerate. Great effort!!!

[@GraveUypo]

i agree. fuller crowds 2d crowds look better than sparse 3D crowds. you can't even tell they're 2D or 3D when moving, anyway!

[@ahmedp8009]

I don't understand why they wasted resources on the 3D crowds? It doesn't make sense and comes with a hit to crowds density, F7 looks much better. Was it really that important?

[@JohnGuyJohn]

Forza 6 got raked for its crowd billboards. We've probably all forgotten about that but I bet Turn 10 hasn't.

[@faber3969]

@@JohnGuyJohn by dumb fanboys online lol

[@electus1]

@johnmarstall don't forget the trees. It's a shame when the average a-hole on the internet has the same sense of entitlement that was once only reserved for royalty in centuries past.

[@Gkhn32]

I agree with Oliver on almost all the improvements in a technical perspective... but in terms of art, colors, contrast - it looks like a significant step back from the prior games. It has that hazy look with elevated blacks. Not a fan of it. To be clear, a lot of times I preffered the visuals of FM 7 in this footage. Maybe because of youtube compression and "watching it, not playing it" plays a role here but either way contrast definitely seems off !

[@DuckAlertBeats]

It looks way off, you're not alone

[@jerchongkong5387]

Practically, this Forza has a greater dynamic range in terms of image (you can see more details in the lights and shadows), and I've noticed that the desaturation effect occurs on some tracks. This can be easily fixed or it might be an intentional artistic choice.

[@retrogamer64007]

That's due to performance RT. Play in performance only

[@Sheen334]

He played the game with a bug that affected the colour gamut. I thought DF would have come out and admitted their mistake by now.

[@NagatoYuk1]

i guess it's the compression, but overall the colors are more realistic. Depends on that you are looking to into a game

[@hb-hr1nh]

The lack of spectators is really noticeable and in some shots the last Forza 7 looks better.

[@djbpresents9584]

Dude look at damn track. Flat no textures

[@LewisHamiltonMSPR]

I thought the same for quite a number of those comparison shots, thought 7 looked better. I keep hearing a lot of praise for this game but I'm underwhelmed, plus FH5 has been bricked for over 3 weeks now since the last update, so not exactly pulling me in with that either. Maybe I am totally mad, but I swear heavily modded Assetto Corsa can often look better than either F7, F8 or GT7.

[@IamJay02]

​@@LewisHamiltonMSPRglad to see Im not the only one not able to play fh5 anymore

[@LewisHamiltonMSPR]

@@IamJay02 It seems FH5 only works on the C: drive now and if it was already there, you have to reinstall all of it to make it work. I'm not going to uninstall other games nor spend hours shifting them around different drives because they F'd up. Assetto corsa is taking up nearly 800Gb on my C: drive so I don't have any room. Nearly a month now with error 0x0 at launch.

[@kevinsims5791]

7 looks more cartooney than realistic at times with the colors. Motorsport tops it in all areas

[@diefontanelle1468]

Maybe I'm just blind, but sometimes I think that the predecessor looks better or that the graphical leap isn't that big

[@YGTVYassirsGamingTechVlogs31]

I was thinking the same thing! The track textures seem to look better to my eye in FM7 and a good number of the cars too. I o love the new vegetation and lighting enhancements but I was really expecting more along the lines of their 2022 preview footage. I was thinking of getting on Xbox but might get on pc to try to get more out of it visually

[@eventhori3on]

I agree.. and apparently on PC the aliasing is terrible compared to horizon 5 and the mirrors are really low Res! And is it me but I have had enough of this realism crap! It's a game I like saturated colours and contrast and to be able to see! I mean I play iracing and that game looks like crap in general but it's the feeling and gameplay that matters! Ray tracing is just the latest buzz word and it's just pointless.. like 3D TVs back in the day! At the end of the day if it handles like FM7 I'll be uninstalling it after 10 mins! Time will tell

[@acevedoaandres]

You are right, you are blind

[@bigweedonly]

Its the TAA, destroys sharpness.

[@ShadyPaperclips]

I think at that point is preference due to art style than anything else

[@Shot4ShotPhoto]

I’ve also noticed that ray traced car reflections depend on what paint job you’re using. When my Supra was blue, other cars reflected in its paint realistically. But when I chromed it out, it literally didn’t show other cars reflected at all. Even when I was right next to another vehicle, the only reflection was the cube map reflection of the environment.

[@aviownzlol]

5:20, worth mentioning Gran turismo started every car model from scratch for GT Sport (with future gens in mind) while Forza is still using some car models which are 18 years old! Take a look at the R32 Skyline and its really lacking detail and even the shape is wrong. The new Forza models for this game do look good though, shame they didn't scrap more of these older model for a re-scan.

[@ArturKwaszyn]

Because they don't care. It's in gamepass anyway, so they don't feel the need to care and push limits.

[@purplelizard0102]

I don't know .. . . aside from the foliage, I find the older game looking vastly superior... I do not understand why there are so little people thinking the same (if any)

[@p5rsona]

yeah besides the interior and some technical aspects, old one visually looks way better.

[@TheVektast]

6 years of improvement and still FM7 looks better sometimes on last gen...

[@indian_crocodile]

you all need glasses😂

[@GSG-io8zp]

I agree but I’m also watching this vertically on my phone screen

[@hb-hr1nh]

I agree and the lack of spectators is noticeable

[@JFLTX]

Microsoft needs to care more about HDR implementation. The 2 heaviest hitters for Xbox this year exhibit grey blacks and terrible color gamut and HDR. That's unacceptable.

[@christiansonesson8292]

Halo did as well. Very weird

[@JFLTX]

@christiansonesson8292 lol I'm not the biggest Halo guy to begin with, but man, that game was forgettable.

[@MikeUK]

Performance RT mode in heavy rain looks spectacular

[@Laserdreamz]

Am I mad, I prefer how 7 looks by a stretch. Possibly the new one looks more realistic, just doesn't have that pop, it's not dazzling to the eye.

[@IwinMahWay]

Fear not for we have horizon

[@DynamicUnreal]

I think one this is clear, the age of more and more polygons is officially over. It’s safe to assume the car on the right has significantly more polygons and yet the difference between the two cars to the human eye is not that big. This is now the era of lighting and textures.

[@TheVektast]

To be honest without title signs I couldn't tell which one is the newer when you show them side by side. 6 years of graphics improvement and the differences are minor.

[@MrWar2050]

They are significant, but you need to watch on a 4k screen and not your phone.

[@SeasonedGaming]

You mention the "crowd is less dense." I'm guessing you took those pictures during a Free Race. The game dynamically changes crowd density depending on the race type. There are fewer people at Practice than the race for instance. If you were racing on Career or a full race, those stands would have been full.

[@Chris-de6rm]

Is it just me or does Forza 7 look better in the first comparisons? The new Forza looks a bit blurry and washed out, also see the aliasing on the barrier still. This appears closer to something I'd expect from the Series S in terms of clarity and visuals.

[@TRX25EX]

theres some aliasing issues as discussed which normally fixed over time, but other than that its miles better, 7 didnt even have decent lighting, it just like playing a game with max contrast ratio

[@DeadOmega]

That January preview looked seemingly far better than the final product wth

[@outdoorsjoe]

Yeah. Looks like they had to dial the game way back because of the Series S.

[@helloguy8934]

​@@outdoorsjoenot because of series s. Because of console hardware I guess

[@CyberThug1080i]

Sony has a console parity Claus contract. Because they're scared of competition with Microsoft. You know the weaker opponent always has to go for the lags.

[@ozar1472]

They were showcasing full rt on cars and now it's only self reflection just like in Forza Horizon 5 lol, something definitively went wrong. The fact that it didn't make the cut to PC is scummy

[@helloguy8934]

@@Packin-Heat Oi. Those banger rt reflections are still supported by the engine though. How can it be because of series s

[@thebreadlord666]

There’s a number of times where if you took the labels off, I might mistakenly mark 7 as the new game. 😬 looks great on PC, but not near as good on console as we were led to believe it would be

[@Parker--]

Series S mode isn't disappointing; it's exactly what it should be. You're looking at it up close on a 4K screen. Look at the Series S version from your couch on a 1080p screen and then it looks about exactly as it should.

[@samclark3370]

@rarkxd1950 If you care about graphics you shouldn’t have bought a Series S

[@MrWar2050]

​@rarkxd1950 Why didn't you did you buy the Xbox Series X it's worth every dollar.

[@Parker--]

@rarkxd1950 No, I'm not kidding you and if you're here, then you're not the audience for the Series S nor playing the Series S in the setting it's designed for. If you can spend money on a decent wheel, you can spend money on a Series X or proper gaming PC because the Series X is the least expensive part of that whole setup. And if you're complaining it looks worse than FH5, than your experience on Series X is still going to look worse than FH5 on Series X. That's an art and visual issue not determined by which Series console you have.

[@Parker--]

@rarkxd1950 If you don't have the money, then you shouldn't be complaining because the alternative is nothing. Further, if you could afford anything over the $100 budget wheel (Hori I think?), then claiming you don't have the budget for a Series X means you don't actually have the budget for a more expensive wheel, nor the TV to utilize the capabilities of the Series X. His question isn't stupid, your questionable purchases are stupid.

[@Parker--]

@rarkxd1950 Clown behavior is spending tons of money on a rig and a nice screen setup and then cheapening out on a Series S then complaining about that it doesn't look as nice as a Series X.💀

[@PalmDesertRock]

I don't want to start a fanboy war. This is clearly a beautiful looking game. But I feel, at least in this video, it looks a little bit more artificial, and less photorealistic than GT7. I wonder why. Is it the PBR materials? Is it the lighting model? The subtle yellow/orange color grading? A combination of multiple of those aspects? What's going on? I mean, this is probably an artistic choice and that's fine. I'm just interested in the technical reasons. I'd love to see a video of John comparing the different approaches to rendering these cars and tracks in Forza Motorsport and GT7 (since he did the GT7 analysis). But looking at the release schedule ahead, I guess he'll be busy for the next few months. But it's rare to see two industry leading teams at the top of their game taking on the same source material, and come up with different solutions. I mean, between, PS5 and Series X, even the hardware is very similar. I'm sure it'd be interesting to see which decisions these developers made in terms of drawbacks and features they're pushing.

[@tellyounuo4865]

It seems obvious that Forza Motorsport has no art staff responsible for coloring, so the FM8 screen looks so dull and terrible...

[@a.elka94]

Lighting is such a huge step from last gen games

[@Spaltentier1337]

It looks so much more realistic/natural/atmospheric with better lighting

I honestly don't like it as much, it has that "raw video footage before color grading" look. It's a bit bland and washed out :/

[@mattmanley7118]

Agreed FM7 looked drab

[@ConnorH2111]

Still isn't better than GT7 🤣

[@RighteousUncle]

Agree Turismo 7 looks absolute dogs shit when put side by side. Sony needs to wake up !

[@bigbossgames8818]

Looking forward to Forza motorsport vs Gran Turismo PS5 DF video!

[@mattmccaughen7371]

facts forxa 7 held up to GT so we will c whos king

[@robertlawrence9000]

@@mattmccaughen7371 and many things in the new forxa look worse than forxa 7.

[@acevedoaandres]

@@robertlawrence9000false

[@th3orist]

tbh the tarmac texture and the ground next to the track looks really low res compared to FM7, what is going on there texture wise? its quite blurry

[@Donzonda]

Its really strange that the cockpit camera has no motion blur enabled. It looks really odd when Switching to it while all other views use a high quality per object motion blur. Any known reasons for that?

[@Shaki123]

How about performance.

[@Chasm9]

Yeah, it's either a bug or a very bad design decision. Should be there.

[@LewisHamiltonMSPR]

@@Shaki123 Sometimes cockpit view is slightly easier to render though because you are displaying less of the car and environment than chase cam.

[@Donzonda]

@@Chasm9 I assume its a bad design decision because Forza 6 and 7 had the same Problem. And it never was explained why. It's just Something which bothers my eyes. Because Performance wise it makes no sense. The PC version has the same problem. In Horizon it works just fine.

[@geminijinxies7258]

It's looking soft, desaturated and low contrast but maybe it's because of the gamma value bug mentioned in the video. Should be easy to fix with a patch.

[@LandHooman]

Like reality

[@geminijinxies7258]

@@LandHooman I've watched footage of real races and it can look soft with low contrast but never this flat. The game doesn't look much like reality either cos then it would pop off the screen when now it just don't. I think I'll wait and see what future patches will do.

[@LandHooman]

@@geminijinxies7258 yea I guess your right

[@twocityfoodies8476]

Very curious how close the PC version will come to the original preview footage...

[@JohnEastmanExAttyAtLaw]

you think PC will be worse, LOL.

[@saliva1305]

will be much better obviously

[@twocityfoodies8476]

@@JohnEastmanExAttyAtLaw of course not but Turn10 used something to create that original footage and it looks like it wasn't an Xbox lol. MS is doing better with stating what footage we are seeing in trailers lately but this one was a prime example of them being vague.

[@TakumiJoyconBoyz]

From the sounds of it, PC won't look much better than Series X does, at least for now but there may be additional updates down the road, particularly on the RT front, based on what Turn 10 said in a previous interview.

[@saliva1305]

@@TakumiJoyconBoyz still, need for upscale and higher FPS is always a plus for PC. sharper picture quality and higher base resolution can make reflections etc. better by default. not to mention double the frame rate. much smoother for a racing game experience. as you said tho, those things will have to hopefully be added later.

[@stefansamoyloff3866]

I feel we're at the point where developers should just release absolute garbage pre-view builds, as well as graphical options that make the game unplayable. Most conversations around game quality seem to focus on a complete lack of understanding about how real word limitations means you can't max out visuals, include every modern technology, and still have a game run at a reasonable frame rate. People simply see a 60 or even 120 fps experience with full real time path tracing as this completely achievable thing the developer choose not to deliver for some reason. Letting people tank their experience to a unplayable slid-show by including options that hardware simply can't support might be the only way forward, as you see this problem a lot less among PC gamers. Mind you, GT7, which offers extremely limited Ray-tracing and only does so at 30fps didn't see anywhere near the negative response FM7 is getting for having more ray-tracing at a higher frame rate, so maybe the real problem is actually even more simple ...

[@davidandrew6855]

I think a lot of people also don't realize that GT 7 is running a game with a physics engine that runs on last gen PS4 with a 1.6Ghz Jaguar CPU. Yet many don't want to acknowledge the increase in physics fidelity FM 2023 is bringing, and I'm sure it is not a light tax on the CPU. Couple that with all the new visuals they are brining, and I'm content with what I see from FM 2023, I'll reseve final judgement after I play the game. The fact that GT 7 gets a pass in certain areas from the enthusiastic Sony masses, yet this game is being reviewed via a microscope is kind of hilarious. IMO, and this is coming from a GT fan. The IGN comparison the put up a few hours ago, IMO mind you, shows how more realistic FM 2023 looks. GT 7 is gorgeous, but I think, need to stress that so the Sony fanbase doesn't get bent out of shape, seems more realistic.

[@Judie-Nator]

I can't believe how gorgeous games can be nowadays. The right artist with the right tools can make gorgeous looking games all on their own.

[@eSKAone-]

But physics still suck in Forza

[@Fishstickeater]

@@eSKAone- L opinion

[@electus1]

@@eSKAone- that's the complete opposite opinion of everyone who ACTUALLY played it, but go off.

[@rayyanabdulwajid7681]

This game hardly looks better than asphalt 9 running on an iPad.

[@Aribbonofsoundmen]

​@@Fishstickeateradin ross headass

[@Gordond2009]

I can see the obvious lighting upgrades....but other than that...many of these comparisons could have swapped and you wouldnt even know. Like at 6:16 the changes are just changes...not an upgrade/downgrade. This is not to put a negative spin on the new release, just really a testament to how far they pushed the last Forza visuals on the hardware it used.

[@aj_bary2044]

I feel like FM7 trackside detail almost looks better in a way. It seems like they scaled down the quantity of trackside assets to increase the detail of fewer assets. IMO FM7 looks better in that aspect of the track not seeming so empty.

[@roundearthshill248]

I’ll be playing this day one tomorrow thanks to early access and am super hyped for this. But I’m disappointed about no qualifying for AI races, which I could have swore was promised previously, and the lack of RT GI on the PC version. I do like that there is a practice session before each race. Which will help to simulate the race weekend feel.

[@omontero18]

I’ve been playing all morning already , change Region to New Zealand ! Very disappointed in the graphics though, baited us with the preview trailer , some parts look like 360 graphics 😅

[@illestcatnnebraska7331]

How can they say gamepass day one…and it not be gamepass day one…crazy

[@roundearthshill248]

@@illestcatnnebraska7331 bruh...launch day is October 10. But if you purchased the $100 edition you get 5 day early access. It is on gamepass on day 1...

[@ArathirCz]

@@illestcatnnebraska7331 Because day 1 = Oct 10. That's when the game is officially out. If you want to play up to 5 days early, you need to buy the premium edition. Gamepass is the standard edition, which even if you buy it, still releases Oct 10.

[@volcalstone]

​@@illestcatnnebraska7331it's day -3 if you pay enough money for it. I'll wait for Gamepass tho. I'm a racing fan but not so much when it comes to sims.

[@XgamerdaveX]

Did they improve ground textures? John highlighted how Forza Motorsport 7 looked significantly better than the new game in that department.

[@nonyabusiness6084]

Funny, I must've missed that.

[@tastyoldgravy]

They absolutely did not. 🆘

[@TheCoolDave]

Yea, nice to see it side by side with Forza 7, a game I played the hell out of, got gold on every track. I do plan on the same on this one. It looks good, and I can't wait to get my hands on it..

[@DMN3901]

Yeah, game looks washed out resulting in low contrast. Color volume seems a bit lacking in some areas as well, but isn't as big of a deal as the contrast. Hoping reshade fixes this issue, or they patch it. HDR might help this a bit, hopefully.

[@omgawesomeomg]

I think what you perceive as washed out is just more realistic volumetric lighting.

[@monkfishy6348]

Real life is washed out.

[@McN4styFilth]

Go outside. Look around.

[@GraveUypo]

almost every scene in this video is either overcast or raining. that probably has something to do with it. but there's also this annoying trend lately of compressing the color range so it doesn't even ever come close to reaching a full black. starfield also does it. it feels like going back to LCDs on oled, and even worse on lcds.

[@chrismingay6005]

I agree. The new game might look more realistic but it looks boring compared to the old game

[@TheLucasbuck]

Excellent video. Oliver is the new work horse of the channel. He seems to do most of the videos now. Great addition to DF.

[@colaboytje]

What was said in the preview: track textures and foliage textures are a lot lower resolution than in Forza 7. In this video, it is again visible and so obvious, but suddenly is not mentioned anymore. The textures look horrible and flat. As also said in this video: texture filtering is reduced in quality over Forza 7. What was mentioned in the preview video, than the anti-aliasing has been changed to TXAA, while it was MSAA in Forza 7, is not mentioned here, but is still visible. Why was this not mentioned in this video??? What I conclude from both videos, is that global illumination is vastly improved, that trees look better (although they still aren't 3D while in the previous video was claimed to be 3D and Turn 10 also claims that they are now 3D), and that RT is being used but at a much lower way than Turn 10 claimed it was in their own videos. So on one hand, they have improved the visuals, while on the other hand they have lowered the visual quality. I'm not impressed by the whole. Remember that this is exclusive for Xbox series X, S and PC. Turn 10 is a first party dev for MS. Forza Horizon 5 is much more impressive than this Forza Motorsport considering it's completely open world. This game was anounced as THE showcase for Xbox series X and S. It is far from it. Turn 10 can do better than this, but were they pushed by MS to release it because it has taken since the anouncement and showcase for Xbox Series X until now, being 4 years ago? If this was really more than 4 years in development, why is it not a graphical showcase as promised? Or could it be that it wasn't actually being developed for more than 4 years as they first developed Forza horizon 5? Something isn't right here. I expect that there will be graphical updates in the future and much more optimisation. This is not worth 80 Euro's in this state. This is not the game that was promised. Just look at the first gameplay anouncement and look how much better it looked then.

[@bigt4135]

I always wonders back in the day if we would ever have a racing game where the reflections in the cars would be realtime.

[@StreetPreacherr]

Yep! Two things I always hoped for in racing games. Seeing the my car reflected in the opponent car's paint. And 3D FOLIAGE on trees, instead of those lame 2D 'billboards' that just rotate so they look 'sort of right' when you look at them from different angles...

[@balaam_7087]

@DontReadMyProfilePicture.57I’ll think of you every time I read a Bloodborne message that says “Don’t you dare look at me!”

[@jamesmckay4573]

pole position didn't need them for me. lol

[@robertlawrence9000]

@@StreetPreacherr It still uses billboards. There are just more of them at different angles.

[@VariantAEC]

​@@StreetPreacherr So, you played Driveclub too, then?

[@djayjp]

12:07 IQ of FM7 looks about 4x clearer/higher res.

[@dcarpenter85]

Just me or does Forza 7 look better at 1:35? The lighting and crepuscular rays poking through the foliage look insanely good. FM just looks well lit but flat. Time of day thing perhaps?

[@EightNineOne]

That's the thing, implement real-time time of day..but why? Long duration racing where huge swings in time of day account for a small amount of the actual races you'll take part in and the trade off is a mostly worse looking end presentation. Saddens me

[@existentialselkath1264]

The move to TAA is a massive shame. I've yet to see a single racing game with it that doesn't end up looking far too soft. I get that MSAA can be too shimmery for many, but thats what options are for, and even the PC version won't have MSAA or even a way to turn it off!

[@PlebolaPandemic]

r/fucktaa

[@existentialselkath1264]

​@@PlebolaPandemiccontrary to the name, an actually very sensible and informative subreddit... Most of the time

[@HugoStiglitz88]

No it is not lmfao 7 and horizon look like absolute trash without TAA

[@HugoStiglitz88]

​@@existentialselkath1264nothing sensible about dummies who don't like good image quality 😂

[@acurisur]

The PC version supports FSR2 and DLSS. I'll be using DLSS

[@dlbutters7164]

When Driveclub (PS4) ran at 30 fps, people laughed at it... Now almost 10 years later, on a newer generation Xbox, Forza runs at 30 pfs, people applaud it? 🤨

[@jurgenjurgen4052]

Excellent video, Oliver! You have improved a lot since the beginning 💪🏻

[@Rebelscum264]

Rude

[@daweitao2668]

I don't really understand why you say "It's fair to say the Series S is a bit of a disappointment in Forza Motorsport, raytracing is absent...image quality is a lot worse (than Series X)". Disappointment comes from failed expectations, but was anyone seriously expecting the Series S to have RT? And of course the image quality/resolution would be lower, as it always is. So really it is par of the course/meets normal expectations for the Series S. I do agree early marketing oversold the RT for the Series X (and apparently PC too).

[@allansolano5587]

what i dont really like is that wash out look of the game on day time i 100% prefered the saturation and contrast it had on motorsport 7

[@eobet]

1:26 don't care about the technical details, from an artistic standpoint, Forza 7 looks miles better in this first comparison!

[@KillerZxAce]

Hopefully you guys used the Upgraded Track resolution downloadable pack this time. It helps significantly.

[@DrGreenThumbNZL]

No way , your a real wizard....

[@SlyNine]

​@@DrGreenThumbNZLyou're

[@gdoumit]

There's an extra pack for the tracks?

[@KillerZxAce]

@@DrGreenThumbNZL they complained about worse track visuals compared to FM7 in a previous video. I think they did not use this texture pack. That is why I’m stating it here.

[@iconofsin4578]

It doesnt install it automatically?? 😳

[@Alinktome]

There are a few differences for sure but I see much greater leap compared with Lamborghini 64.

[@michaeldietz2648]

Honestly this is not a big upgrade when looking at boat without knowing which one came first it’s hard to say which one looks better in motion. There are things about the older one that looks better to me.

[@Sheen334]

You need glasses, obviously.

[@michaeldietz2648]

@@Sheen334 takeoff the fanboy glasses and you will see the truth

[@Sheen334]

@@michaeldietz2648 Which fanboy glasses? I game on PC. 🤡

[@matthewjalovick]

@@michaeldietz2648says the person whose entire comment history is talking bad about Xbox? I feel bad for you.

[@vandammage1747]

The environments and lighting looks much better in FM.

[@alex.starostin]

Judging by its small incremental upgrades I feel like it could've ran of Xbox One. Compare this 2023 game with 2013 Forza 5, the difference is hard to spot, I'd even say that 5 looks better in some instances

[@callando5882]

Yeah I felt the same way about GT7. It probably could have ran on the PS2. It also looked about the same as GT3.

[@alex.starostin]

@@callando5882 that's because GT3 was that big of a leap, it still looks good today

[@frosty2odyssey]

​@@callando5882no it doesn't 💀

[@TripleKOShorts]

While FM looks better in most cases than FM7, the differences are not earth shattering especially sine FM7 dropped in 2017. Just goes to show how good graphically FM7 was back then on Xbox One X while running in 4k at 60fps! This game could have easily been playable on the One X at 1440p.

[@vandammage1747]

Not with the enhanced physics

[@adrianhosein7698]

@@vandammage1747 yes it could, seris s is doing it and thats a 4tf machine, one x is 6tf.

[@TheCrazeturk]

@@adrianhosein7698 You can’t just compare the numbers like that. Series S has a different GPU architecture and more importantly, a Zen 2 CPU, which primarily handles the physics.

[@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa]

@@adrianhosein7698 physics in games are calculated by the CPU. Zen 2 are much much better than the jaguar in the last generation.

[@adrianhosein7698]

@@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa the physicist in gt7 seem to be better than here as df stated this game is more on the arcade side than gt7, if gt7 can run on a PS4 while using better physics then this game can run on a one x.

[@kozukioden7832]

I can't understand those who say FM7 looks better. For example the difference of the interiors in the cars is abysmal and the car in FM7 feels disconnected with the environment and put as a sticker, while in motorsport is perfectly integrated due to the improved lighting.

[@facuuaf]

Forza 7 still feels like the stronger game in art direction. Even if limited on tech, the high contrast stylized aesthetic is more eye catching.

[@CyberThug1080i]

Moon 🌙

[@hornet66]

To be honest,the 2 shots of the mustang,performance image looks better than perf RT image,to me anyway.

[@billyb7119]

To me, it's a great example of the limitations of detailed technical analysis when it comes to graphics. You can point to all the technical advancements, how the old game used tricks or cheats to achieve an effect, etc, but in the end, higher end tech doesn't necessarily lead to a subjectively better looking game. I recognize how much more technically advanced the new game is, but in the end I can't say that I think it looks better overall. It appears washed out and flat, with very low contrast, soft environmental textures, and extremely unsaturated colour. I do, however, greatly appreciate some of the advancements in materials rendering. One of my main gripes with Forza games from the start of the franchise up until now has been the fact that all the cars look like they're made of mirror-polished plastic. Looks like they've finally advanced in that area to rendering something that looks more like painted metal.

[@Flapdr01]

I feel the same way, I guess the new one is technically better but on these video comparisons the old one really doesn't look much worse.

[@johnb4605]

Do you have I labeled correct. Is it just me that the one on the left looks loads better than the one on the right.?

[@a36538]

Texture acutance at 6:19 is better in fm7, the white maple valley print on the racetrack is more blurry on the new game, and as a whole it looks like the new FM uses low texture quality. But the anisotropic filtering is really subpar in this new game. 2 steps forward, 2 steps backwards

[@camrsr5463]

in real racing the sequence goes as follows. Practice, qualifying, then race. you should get a good bonus for qualifying high. is seems like the top 3 or 4 AI cars really pull away early race. so I can see a lot of players choosing a 6th place, 7, and 8th place starting spot. Qualifying would do the same thing as choosing a start spot. the players skill level should be the main focus.

[@erikhecht4352]

As a multi-platform gamer, I'm really enjoying this. However, to my eyes GT7 still has the edge visually. Plus the VR2 support means I'll likely spend more time with that long-term.

[@overwatch761]

Forza looks generations ahead for me and. no you won't be playing GT7 due to VR Support as I know for a fact you don't have PSVR2. Very few people have a PSVR2 headset, and anyone that owns it uses had it on display in a cabinet.

[@OG_Daz]

GT7 is quite a fair bit better graphically, having just played Forza for a bit today. However, Forza is a far better game and driving experience by quite a long way

[@carpetfluff35]

@@overwatch761 Congrats on winning my award for the stupiest comment I've read on YT today. For the record, I'll be playing this, but any flat game is going to pale in comparison feel-wise compared to sitting in car in the headset.

[@zihechen3111]

@@OG_Daz forza is more arcade racing

[@OG_Daz]

@@zihechen3111 yes, certainly in the past. But, I think the gap is now closer than ever. GT7 is not a good game and not a good racing SIM. Forza Motorsport is a great game, SIM or Arcade really doesn’t matter.

[@alef3356]

About the comparison between FM and GT7... An interesting detail is that it's much easier to calibrate your TV to make FM more visually impactful than GT7 more realistic (if that is what you want). The same logic applies to photography. Photographers seek photos in the "RAW" format, which has minimal post-processing and appears quite washed out. This way, you can edit and achieve the ideal result. However, have you ever tried editing a photo that has already undergone smartphone post-processing? The colors are highly saturated, and the contrast is high. It becomes much more challenging to make the photo more realistic-or ideal for you-in this way. (RAW photos have various advantages besides being less "contrasty." I only addressed this point due to the similarity.) In the case of Forza, I would simply reduce the gamma and shadow detail a bit, and it would be perfect.

[@aukalender]

Great video. I think for some reason the game looks way behind GT7 graphically

[@DoABarrilRoll]

I often wasnt sure what was the old forza and what was the new game

[@LtSokol]

It looks great but it doesn't seem to overtake GT7 more realistic driving. Still I look forward to trying it out this week.

[@nickgovier]

6:39 that shadow on the bootlid 😳

[@DonaldHendleyBklynvexRecords]

Great Job DF! I wonder if things like FS3 will allow these consoles to fly the way we all thought they would and know they could, GFX have taken so many steps backwards to me recently but it's not the hardware's limits as much as using new technique's , I know there's incentives using knew engines but I want to see some Devs Use Older Tech for crisp high FPS using said generations tricks to get buttery smooth optimized gameplay even if newer tech is not able to be used like RT etc. I never had an Issue with old style reflections, and I appreciate RT in certain games too, balance is needed in the Industry.

[@boredbastardbullshit]

It will, yeah. The graphical leap of the PS4 over the PS3 vanished almost completely into chasing resolution, and so it goes with the PS5 over the PS4 (and Xbox consoles) - ultimately, consoles should never render more than 1300p upscaled to whatever and frame interpolation should always be used as well. Until the lowest tier console in a given generation can use whatever the future console DLSS and FG equivalent is, we'll never actually escape the last generation. Of course, Microsoft will then release a new console with half the memory and demand feature parity with every single game on that console, too... so yeah, you can expect actual current gen graphics in about 10 years!

[@LewisHamiltonMSPR]

I agree. I would bet that if a studio took all the techniques from say, Driveclub, instead of wasting resources on things like raytraced reflections, they would still have room to spare at 4k60fps for some improvements and have a more impressive looking game.

[@nickhowatson4745]

what i really want to know is how much has the underlying tech responsible for overall car handling and track physics improved over Forza Motorsport 7? is there a difference in how the driving in Forza Motorsport "Feels" vs the previous games? Do these new tech improvements bring Forza Motorsport closer to being an actual "Racing Simulator" or is it still just an "Arcade Racing Game/Race sim lite"?

[@carpelunam]

I own both Assetto and Forza Motorsport 7 and when you turn off all the assist they are extremely similar to eachother, they claimed this one had even more realistic physics so I would say so. Games like iRacing will cover more complicated aspects and incorporate them in the physics, but that requires a subscription.

[@GaigeStorm]

After playing for the last few days I can say the handling model is far better than FM7. The cars are more grippy, can turn sharper corners at faster speeds, has a higher sense of speed, and has that buttery, arcadey/sim cornering feel (if that makes any sense) that you'd find in the GT games that makes driving satisfying. But at the end of the day, while it is more simulation based, it's still a simcade but more on level with GT

[@KatalistProductionsKozzySasha]

Looks amazing, will be playing it on PC and Series X (maybe try it on my steam deck to), thanks as always for the video, looks like another great Forza Motorsport entry, they sure are consistent Turn 10.

[@mna.author]

Wouldnt a 1080p@30fps RT mode on XSS be possible though?

[@Moravia90s]

Good old Oliemack delivering a great video. Nice to see how he has improved since his first reviews. Definitely DF has an amazing core team now.

[@lilivier]

I don't understand. There is no mention of the obvious blurry image because of the choice of TAA.(series x here)

[@goob8945]

It seems to have the same issue as Halo Infinite, where the adherence to “realistic” lighting makes the game look flat and uninteresting. Unfortunately I’m not a fan of it but I’m still excited to play the game. Hopefully more attention has been paid to the car handling and physics

[@plr985]

I think this is what's most important anyways and from what I've read and heard it's vastly improved.

[@goob8945]

@@plr985 yes I’m hearing good things about the gameplay too, I’ll definitely be giving it a go come release. If I’ve been playing assetto corsa for this long I’m sure I can forgive the visual shortcomings 😂

[@plr985]

@@goob8945 very very true lol

[@madson-web]

This rendering tech is really good but it's a lot less sharp than the previous games

[@J0rdan912]

Less sharp and more flatter, washed out. In pursuit of realism they lost some artistic touch that making older Forza Motorsport and Horizon games more visually appealing, saturated, artistic. Sometimes realistic and advanced is not better, this is why painting and animation are still coexisting with photo and movies.

[@XXMetallica88XX]

@J0rdan912 its preference. I prefer this. I have about 5 hours in the game so far and its soo good. Best Forza motorsport forsure. Gameplay and lighting are 10/10 incredible and the graphic decision to go ultra real imo was awesome. The game is insane looking. But some prefer the less real and brighter. So again its preference. But ur opinion isnt everyones. Alot of people love this game already. Its a 9 or 10/10

[@kjell9745]

​@@XXMetallica88XXhow are the engine sounds ?

[@XXMetallica88XX]

@kjell9745 amazing. Ive been playing with my gaming headset and fuckkk some of the cars sound meannnnn. Ive been loving it. Id definitely download it if ur a car person at all.

[@kjell9745]

@@XXMetallica88XX think I need to buy my surround sound asap, My current one is broke 😅

[@TheRealBOBlibob]

It's funny how time of day can make the game go from looking photorealistic to last gen

[@shaundavidssd]

Or the screen your watching on lack of HDR ,oh forget KZbin compression eh

[@vgnvideogameninja2930]

Forza Motorsport doesn't look last gen at all whatsoever, regardless of time of day.

[@soadek1]

Hey! Are you guys planning on doing a deep dive on FSR 3 anytime soon?

[@jollama]

They’re not answering you

[@00po]

i'm thinking that i'm going insane...because they talk all the improvements, why it looks better and the tech behind it and i'm here sitting and saying to myself that i like 7 visuals substantially more! Even with current side by side comparisions with GT7, i'm thinking FM7 fairs better against GT7 than FM. To further cement that i'm going absolutely bonkers, i think polygon graphics(on racing games) haven't improved much since Drive Club from like 8 years ago.

[@LewisHamiltonMSPR]

F7 does often look better. But I could be more mad than you because I think modded Assetto Corsa blows me away more than GT& or FM8.

[@turrican4d599]

4:23 Lower res asphalt textures??? Did Turn10 never heard of anisotropic filtering?!

[@NikHem343]

I think while FM is clearly ahead technically, I find FM7 to be LARGELY more aesthetic than FM. From contrast and lighting choices to color palette, I much prefer the visuals of FM7

[@Schniebel89]

I wouldn't be surprised if they enable more RT options for PC later. Maybe when the new XBox release or so for parity reasons. They probably just want the game to run right now so ppl can play and don't complain about crashes too much.

[@FullNietzsche]

Very minor differences to FM7 and in some ways a step backwards, like the low crowd density. They took six years to do this?

[@jgabrielr9977]

Don’t forget y’all. Playground Games is creating FABLE with ForzaTech :)

[@SnaptrixGaming]

The more I watch the more I can't help but think that this game is missing a lot of colors

[@LordDeimosIV]

Yep. Everything looks so desaturated. Maybe it's intentional but can't say I'm a fan of the way it looks. Might change my mind when I get to play it myself. Perhaps HDR will look better.

[@peacelove8395]

The previous game is using a large degree of artificial saturation which is cartoonish whereby the new game is leaning much more towards realism but I agree it can be improved

[@SnaptrixGaming]

@@LordDeimosIV I really don't play racing games but I think that the lack of colors would turn me off from the game if I did. I know it's silly, but It genuinely bothers me to the point where I don't think it's acceptable. But maybe that's just because I'm tired of accepting poor presentation of pretty games...

[@THE_DEEZLE]

As real life does

[@Sun6935]

I prefer these new colors, it is less unrealistic

[@joshooahh]

The interior mirror affecting the screen space reflections on the wet race track surface is absolutely awful, they need to fix that

[@elone3997]

Turn 10 "We've pulled out all the stops and have delivered a cutting edge game engine from tireless years of work in the field". DF "Yeah, it looks pretty good..buuuut...." Sorry guys but your starting to sound like food critics 😖

[@electus1]

We come to DF to put things under a microscope to see things that we would never see while playing. It gives me a better appreciation for how games are designed, but would never spoil a good game for me.

[@frankynakamoto2308]

a 40fps MODE with the reflections boosted to the same 40fps BE an ideal mode for this game, on both series s and x, or if they can get the 60fps mode to have the reflections be 40fps, sense no frame drops occur they might have some headroom for that.

[@mr88nyc]

I really want to see more 40fps modes on console.

[@Sleeep1]

Completly disapointed in newest Forza - graphic like beta version... WTHell?

[@XgamerdaveX]

I knew instantly that the final game would look nowhere near as good as the earlier promotional footage when they first started showing it. I’m sad to be proven right.

[@DavidHunter]

Really do feel like I was sold a dud with the Series S. Same graphics at a lower resolution they said.. yeah that’s not what’s panning out here. I was happy with a 1080p box (and they said it would be 1440p initially!) but we’re really not getting the same graphical features simply at a lower resolution.

[@drunkenhearted7256]

Yep! Microsoft lied to us big time! Buyer beware it seems… 🙄

[@Retro_Gamer_89]

Upgrade and get a Series X it's that simple 🤷

[@drunkenhearted7256]

@@Retro_Gamer_89 that doesn’t change the fact that we were lied to you about the boxes capabilities, bro… Not that it matters, but I actually have both. I’m just agreeing that he’s right, we were all collectively lied to. Stop defending Microsoft deceit.

[@Retro_Gamer_89]

@@drunkenhearted7256 Things change that's life 🤷

[@peterlegge8781]

I’ve been enjoying Forza Motorsport. Thanks for the great video

[@deathtrooper2048]

12:05 the fence on the homestead track just pops in and 7 looks noticeably sharper.

[@myphsto]

On PC VRR seems to be broken entirely. Run a simple benchmark with 60 vs 60 vsync with and without VRR enabled on your monitor. 60 vsync acts unlocked on my 120Hz LG CX with VRR enabled, where 60 tries to hold 60 but is still all over with frame times. The only 'fix' I've found is to turn off VRR running at 60 (vsync) in game and I get a perfectly flat line for frame times.

[@Zeryth960]

12:00 that TAA butchering..... like, sure image stability is better, but it blurs the image so badly I got the idea the game went to 480p

[@overwatch761]

Looks stunning, but also makes a good case for why Ray Tracing is overrated. Games are an art and realistic lighting isn't always the right choice, even in games based on realism.

[@jimduerloo9599]

I would love to see a graphics comparison/technology review for older games that are still being updated. One might bring up World of Warcraft, Even Online, War Thunder, etc. Great to see how these games evolved graphical wise and keep adding newer technologies in them.