Foul and a Miss - applying the rule for the amateur game

[@formaline2004]

Very well done Adam, a very clear exposition. Logical and ordered. Those comments that disagree have not listened closely enough to what you have said.

[@jameszheng7699]

Well explained ❤

[@richardhunter403]

Have you any thoughts on a situation where a player chooses to apply side to attempt a one cushion escape, when they have the option of playing a natural angle off two cushions. Your example suggests that a one-cushion attempt is generally easier than a two-cushion escape, but as you say there are exceptions to virtually all generalities. The logic it seems to me is that the player must attempt the easier method of escape or leave himself vulnerable to a miss call. Is it reasonable that in such a case as I have described, a referee might determine that the player has not made a sufficient attempt to hit the ball on because he has neglected the easier option.

[@petergreaves3242]

Great job Adam , very well explained . Thanks for the video .

[@sanabsi4ever]

if I'm 40 points behind and 27 points left on the table, and I snookered my opponent, and he missed the ball, should I be awarded a Foul and a Miss?

[@jameszheng7699]

In the end, it's down to the organiser to make decisions according to resources available

[@qguy741]

What are you talking about Its like all rules of any sport The governing body sets the rules

[@jameszheng7699]

@@qguy741 not sure if you have played in any local clubs. Most amateur players simply can't be expected to play like Pros, some rules have to be customised, esp. FAM

[@qguy741]

@@jameszheng7699 Well find another sport Custonising is for the wallies of any sport

[@jameszheng7699]

@@qguy741 at least I am playing snooker in a real world with my hand, not like someone who is playing snooker in a few pages of paper with their tongues. If you know any club in Sydney applies FAM in all their events, please let me know and I will be very happy to go & learn

[@qguy741]

@@jameszheng7699 put your money up and we will see your real world I will not play the game of snooker rules I think you should watch and learn a little or it will cost ya

[@qguy741]

well the shot you show pushing out from behind the green was always covered by the rules in the 80's so this what you say is not correct. you still have to make an honest attempt. The problem with the foul and miss rule is we are all equal at getting out of snookers in the eyes of the ref in important events So tell me who is the : Best break builder in the world? Best tactical player in the world? Best long potter in the world? And you can ask many more question like this! So who is the best at getting out of snookers in the world? Ah yes the refs say we are all equal Now you understand that the rule is only for the referees to be the person in charge and show their importance in the match Let the players play the game No one turns up to watch a ref put the ball back 10 times or so The rule needs a total revision to an acceptable level of say make the distance plus within a ball width and thats fine Remember there are 10368 square inches on a snooker table and no one in the world is that good to put the cue ball on a dime in that area Have a good think what I have just said and yes I can play at a very high level But the miss rule is for the muppets who really cant play the game It slows down the tournaments and is boring to watch.

[@timdunkley9173]

Well said.

[@jefo4213]

At the a grade and tourny level , 3 attempts, then it should be ball in hand unless the snooker is genuinely that hard to hit. If you are a ref then you should know when it is. Foul and Miss rule taken care of. When it comes to the lower levels it should be scapped altogether. EASY PEZY

[@snookerwa]

Even if you give ball in hand anywhere on the table, there is not always going to be a shot on, so it's not necessarily a benefit to the non-striker. I know plenty of players at the C Grade level who are smart enough to recognise a situation where giving away 12 points is preferable to disturbing the balls and leaving something on. If you say scrap the rule at lower levels you are saying the push-out is condoned - is that your intention? And how are you helping those players improve their game if they have no incentive to learn how to get out of a snooker?

[@jefo4213]

@@snookerwa If we are talking about the foul and miss rule for a grade and above there will always be a shot on with ball in hand 100% of the time...as for the lower grades use the same rule then cheats are cheats and always will be

[@snookerwa]

But if you scrap the rule, it is not cheating - there is no other mention in the rules that you have to try to hit the ball on. If the rulemakers think you should try to get out of a snooker you would think they would make a rule about it - wait a minute....they did!

[@jefo4213]

@@snookerwa I thought this convo was about the foul and miss rule and how to get a better more even result..if that's the case then what i have said does that for all players regardless.The the foul and miss rule then has no place in snooker anymore. I have had this discussion countless times with all who can play the game here and overseas and they all agree that this would be a simpler way to move past such a contoversial rule that can be interpreted by people who DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY of the players that are officiating on.

[@jameszheng7699]

In this case,I agree with jefo. 12points with a ball in hand sounds pretty fair in a lower level. Most players in C grade would like to play in C for fun all the years ling

[@ballstream2233]

I think that the rule should be ignored except in cases where the miss was obviously intentional... at all levels. I was watching Molly Meldrum's match and she was caught for more than 20 points and lost her lead. I saw the same thing in the Australian Under 18s final recently where the player not only lost their lead but was demoralised... 7-8 attempts trying a variety of angles. It takes no skill to run the cue ball up behind a colour only a few inches away, and that shot choice usually follows bad position after potting a red. So why should a lack of skill benefit?

[@snookerwa]

You say ignore the rule, but then say you still have to try to hit the ball - like I said in the video, that's exactly what the rule says! I didn't see Lilly's match that you are talking about (I think Molly Meldrum's playing days are behind him) - but remember that event was a Regional Championship, another point I made was that if you put your name down to play in an event you are making the statement that you are good enough to play at that level. I would also note that Lilly made the Semi Final. This issue of players milking it to gain points, or the fact that a roll-up snooker often comes from a poor positional stroke is a different can of worms.

[@ballstream2233]

@@snookerwa what I do say is ignore it except except in cases where an object ball is not snookered or an obvious intention to miss. It used to be at referee discretion but in more recent years the emphasis has been to apply it always. The rule has been reworded many times over the years but it still means the same... hard to define what cannot be debated in just a few words. Sorry but it is all the same can of worms and the way it is now, no-one should be proud to own.

[@snookerwa]

What you're saying is you agree there needs to be a rule that says you have to try to hit the ball - again, that's exactly what the rule says. You are saying the bar has been set too high in recent years for amateur players - I agree, that's why I put this video together. I am trying to get players to understand that they should not be applying the professional standards to an amateur game, so this gives some guidelines for what should be considered before mindlessly putting the balls back.

[@ballstream2233]

@@snookerwa changing the wording of the rule could be catastrophic because not everyone understands it even after rewording many times over the years. If your hope is to convince the players themselves not to "exploit" the rule, I wish you luck.