FPV Antenna Lab: Best goggle antennas when using Tiny Whoops?

[@blackmennewstyle]

This is the kind of videos a lot of FPV pilots actually need to watch and understand all the concepts behind RF transmission, beam, axial ratio, polarization and gain. Too many people are still making that terrible mistake of bumping the RF power where they actually need better antenna(s) for the job! Thanks for the fantastic job as always

[@carsonlight_lapse6394]

Now I have to study electronic engineering before I play fpv Lamo

[@PoodooDdoo4U]

Only video I found with this exact info. I wanted to retain the stock antenna on my TinyHawk Freestyle ll but still improve reception with my goggle antennas. I'm trying to avoid a bigger antenna, increasing weight of the drone and dropping flight time with the way I fly. With a standard flight time of 4-5 min depending on battery used, I want to save every second I can. Super helpful, two thumbs up n four boobs.

[@stelic9515]

Thank you alooooot. I almost was decided to buy to omnidirectional antenna(on the skydroid receiver) for woop quadcopter. NOW I know it will not impruve the signall over linear linear one

[@mikbacitube]

Great! The antenna series are so far the most informative fpv series

[@licensetodrive9930]

Oh sweet, more Antenna Lab, I keep recommending individual videos and this series when I see people ask questions/talk about using 90 degree adapters and TPU mounts for their antennas.

[@Painless360]

Thanks for the comment. It's kind of Greg to divert testing time and energy from his own testing and development to show things like this in an easy to understand way. Happy flying!

[@licensetodrive9930]

I always mention MenaceRC are involved because their products are usually held in high regard, and doing these tests for everyone I can only see it helps increase their reputation for making good products. I run an ordinary linear omni on my goggles along with a Bandicoot, so this video was particularly interesting to me, I especially didn't know about how having the Bandicoot rotated off-axis has a noticeable dB drop, so good job I always keep mine the right way up :)

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic, Lee! That's fantastic to know! 😃 Thanks Mr. Menace as well!

[@heliharris69]

Nice to see some tests using the correct equipment to measure the received signal. Interesting and informative test results.

[@leadfoot1131]

Hi Lee great video. Would like to re-iterate what's already been said. This is a massive gray area that MOST RC users do not understand and consequently end up with total mis-matches. A great series on a hot topic. Nice one Lee.

[@Painless360]

Thanks Les. It's kind of Greg to divert testing time and energy from his own testing and development to show things like this in an easy to understand way. I've no doubt a few viewers will see this as an 'advert' for MenaceRC. I'd be happy to do this testing here independantly if someone wanted to spring for the £2,000+ for the Network Analyser. Interestingly, detractors of the series don't seem to be prepared to help with that cost ;) Happy flying!

[@leadfoot1131]

@@Painless360 We could always start a crowd fund :-). Seriously though you normally find that the guys that complain normally hide at the back when it's time to stand up and be counted. Have a great weekend!!!

[@scoutarrow]

Great Information when I first started we were moving forward with all the new antennas not looking back, When Drones got smaller this changed things and now my thinking about these bad antennas I threw away. I will definitely be trying one of these combinations.

[@scottmarshall6766]

The Bandicoot rocks! - Thanks for confirming what I've felt for a long time, it's the ticket for Whoops and backpack combos with the 1/4 wave stub. I usually leave the RHCP Mad Mushroom on the other side, even though that's less than optimal, I rarely have issues with range. On the Rapidfire, I've often used 2 Duckies, one vertical, one Horiz, and the Bandicoot with a linear duckie at 45deg - it's close, but my opinion is the Bandicoot combo wins. Thanks - I like the antenna lab series, always look forward to another test.

[@charleswarwick4849]

What about 90 degree response of the circularly polarized vs the linear? I thought the losses at 90 degree out of phase for CP would be less than the loss due to the linear signal mismatch? Fantastic series as always though! Big thanks to MenaceRC, couldn't do it without them!

[@Fpvfreaky]

Thanks guys very helpful info. I’ve got all the patches of menace I thinks they are great. Really appreciate the time and energy that goes in to making them for us. Thank you 👍🏽😁

[@josephfreeman5289]

exelent. got a menace bandicoot and old akk linear antenna im keeping in my tinywhoop bag now

[@dars0n1]

Very useful info thanks! Wish I'd looked into this before buying new antenna's

[@wintermute4755]

Just the video I needed! Thanks!

[@spatuluk]

Good info - I always read that antennas should be paired, and wondered how the heck that translated to whoops.

[@stevega1000]

Your both legends, thanks a lot guys. :)

[@evilc2048]

Really useful info - I have RHCP on my goggles, but most of my quads use linear, so I guess I should get some new antennas for my goggles. Looking at getting some "duck" antennas like ones in the video, but unsure of which one to buy - I see a lot advertised as being 2.4g/5.8g - are these optimal? Links to UK stockists of good duck antennas for use with goggles would be great. Also, as I have quad diversity goggles, I guess optimal setup would be 3x duck antennas (One pointing up, one right, one straight) plus one linear patch?

[@siipioravasstuff8852]

Just as I was planning on ordering some goggle antennas for micros :D

[@thirtythreeeyes8624]

I like a bi-quad for linear. Also in my real world testing a skew planar does much better with multipathing than a linear on the goggles. Like a difference of me being able to fly 4 levels of a house vs 2. While maintaining LOS linear seemed better though I never fly long distance or maintain LOS with a micro quad and if I do the biquad covers it.

[@jalpa9642]

Thank you...! Very good presentation about FPV...! =)

[@glytch5]

I imagine a tiny whoop that has just a little copper wire for an antenna would be the same sort of thing?

[@ndcapper]

This all makes sense. However when I fly tiny whoops with a linear antenna it's always in a metal building. So would it be better to combat multipathing with the receiving antenna that is circular polarized even though the transmitting antenna is linear? I've always used used CP antennas on the receiver. But This is a long-standing thought that I would love to see a answered.

[@NATGEOANDSTUFFPaulbrannan]

great work buddy.i have plenty antennas but none are any good.

[@JP-qq2kn]

Great video! Thank you!

[@brandongroves4465]

KZbin is nuts. The exact answer to my exact question

[@alexmoil6256]

Nice! Basic but needed

[@arnerrvik7586]

Thanks a bunch!

[@DeanChapmanFPV]

First🤗 Menace antennas are so good I really rate them ! Good bang for the buck for sure 👌🏻 Thanks for the science 😃

[@thedog77]

Great information. I use a pico and a lollipop 2 on a furious true d 3.6 module with fatshark hdo oled flying a babyhawk 3. Great quad. Is rapidfire better. To get a better quality picture and signal and the mix of antennas you say would be better. If so I'm sold

[@Painless360]

Using the right antennas make a huge difference, to general flying. Modules like the RapidFIRE are excellent but you only see the benefit when flying in challenging conditions..

[@Painless360]

Hi Andrew, you're so right. I may make a video with this detail about losses in a video about gain vs. loss in power and antenna selection.. -6dB loss is easy on the wrong antenna but you need to increase the power by 6dB to counteract it (i.e. increasing from 25mW to 200mW). 6dB results in twice the range for FPV... Interesting stuff..

[@glenmiller1437]

Nice video. Interesting. Had one thought/concern... I appreciate the performance of the linear patch, but clocking the patch showed quite a bit of impact. So how much would panning and tilting of the patch further diminish that? That was not examined here. Normal patch antennas are very directional, so I'd have to assume the linear patch is too...? (Dipoles at least don't suffer from panning of the antenna, so I wonder if at particular compound angles, two dipoles don''t out perform the dipole/linear-patch.) Hope I explained that OK

[@Painless360]

I think I understand what you meant. Most antennas have areas there they have poorer reception. If you rotate the antenna and also move into one of those areas of lower sensitivity for the antenna then the effect is compounded. Hope that helps..

[@glenmiller1437]

@@Painless360 Thanks for the reply. Correct. I guess my concern was that in the video, the testing with the linear patch was only varied by clocking the linear patch antenna. If you pan (rotate the linear patch about the Z axis), or tilt (like nodding your head), you further reduce the sensitivity (because patch antennas are generally so directional). That seems like a significant thing to test, since its asking a lot to keep your patch pointed at your drone when you're wearing goggles. I would have liked to have seen that test too. I think two dipoles might have performed equally as well (as that linear patch with a dipole). I bit more of a real world test.

[@mortache]

Just curious, how do the linear patches and yagis perform compared to if a dipole was placed with a large dish like the ones used by tv set top boxes

[@rickwinjester9706]

Hi,what is the tall antenna that you are using on your goggles? Thanks

[@luisaugustomaselli823]

Thank you very much for the video! It is a little advanced for me as a beginner in the hobby. I was researching for a problem in my tiny whoop and found your video. I would be very grateful if you can help me with this problem. When I move my tiny whoop less than 1 meter from the fpv glasses, the signal is lost and the image disappears. With another tiny whoop this problem does not occur. In this case it could just be the original antenna that has low quality or could it also be a problem on the VTX card? Thanks.

[@Painless360]

I'd check the problem whoop is set to the right band channel and power setting as step one. Sounds like like low power or wrong channel... Best to

[@sunshynff]

Great video!! I'm going to have to order me a linear patch now, as far as the regular linear antenna that people say are cheap, do they make a higher quality one, other than the ones that come free with goggles n stuff?

[@Painless360]

I've not come across one. If you find one, please let me know..

[@phoenix4202]

Would this work on emax transporter goggles as a upgrade??

[@shrekshrek1881]

I wonder how many people have considered that many issues come from multiple whoops in the air at the same time? In this case, I don’t think you’re antenna selection will really improve your video as much as reducing gain and focusing on the appropriate frequency. At whoop races I tend to fly without any antennas at all and it has improved my video quality substantially, likely because I pick up less interference from other whoops on nearby channels.

[@ruisimoes3638]

Nice work! Maybe you can help me here, if you use an helical antenna on your goggles, what kind of antenna should one have on the aircraft? (5.8GHz)

[@Painless360]

Circular polarised - see the videos in the RC Basics and Antenna Lab Series..

[@scootroter4859]

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR BIG HAIR DAY! LOL I CAN'T WAIT! 🤪🤯

[@scootroter4859]

Co0ol video! Thanks! 🤘

[@HaveFaithInGod]

So with a linear whoop I'd be served well to keep two linears on my goggles? One vertical and the other horizontal? Aren't patch antennas directional?

[@Painless360]

Depends how you fly and what range you need..

[@HaveFaithInGod]

@@Painless360 Oh, out to 50m, in and out of small trees and school playground things. Backyard, around the house on < one acre.

[@Painless360]

Then a patch isnt needed. Happy flying!

[@andreapiacentin8396]

Thank you so much for the video, do you have any advice for an omni linear antenna ?

[@Painless360]

Yep, always keep them within 30 degrees of alignment for the best performance... happy flying

[@andreapiacentin8396]

@@Painless360 Thanks man, i was wondering where can i find one to buy.. it seems that a linear omni is unfindable :/

[@Painless360]

Not sure, I've not had to buy one for years..

[@ianrmurphy]

Disappointing not to see the measurement of the effect of rotating the two linear whip antennas to 90deg...

[@Painless360]

I've asked Greg to test that and will pin the results on this video for comparison. See my Crossfire series more more about antenna orientation..

[@ianrmurphy]

@@Painless360 Seems to me that a legitimate setup for a diversity receiver for a quad with a linear dipole antenna is simply two linear antennas at 90deg (instead of using one linear dipole and one linear patch)... Especially given the usual close range of flying of a small quad where the extra gain from the patch matters less.

[@Painless360]

Depends on how you fly. Same rules for both CP and Linear when it comes to higher gain antennas. Happy flying!

[@spamfly8042]

I've got a budget set of eachine vr004, can I upgrade them with better antenna?

[@Painless360]

Yes you can. Best of luck

[@Powershotknecht]

cool

[@FlyingBuzzard]

Almost every one who reviews goggles the first thing they say is throw away those antenna's they come with and go get better antenna's . SO those cheap little straight up dipoles so many goggles come with are the better antenna ?

[@ContagiousIdeal]

The best antenna to use with a linear is another linear, CP causes a loss of 3dbi

[@Sourdough_Humboldt]

What model power screwdriver is that?

[@Painless360]

See my video on smart tools.. All in there..

[@mrmanojrs]

Sir, what will be better choice between foxeer lollipop and pagoda. to be used on rc plane.

[@sunshynff]

I don't fly planes, just quads, but I heard good things about the foxeer lollipops, so I got a couple. I've been extremely pleased with them, so much so I even started using one on my ground station.

[@mrmanojrs]

thanks sir. Will get a couple for myself.

[@bl4ckr4bbit]

what about for diversity system? should we use two linear patch 90 degrees orientation for each other?

[@Painless360]

You can use an omni and a directional antenna and fly longer in a smaller part of the sky, use two omnis for better reception close in or two directional if you're pushing range - see the videos in the Antenna lab series..

[@rolandburrows4859]

Begs the question re the taranis, how should the antennae be? Laying left, right or pointing straight out; pointing towards you?

[@Painless360]

Good idea for a video.. Thank you..

[@WaymondJr]

Had the same thought as I watched

[@Painless360]

It's exactly the same as any system - see the Crossfire series for more detail in the meantime..

[@carsonlight_lapse6394]

Probably a reason to justify me getting into electrical engineering (radio course) in University😂🤭

[@Painless360]

Or just watch the other videos in the series.. ;)

[@bbsheppo]

Any chance of a 2021 updated video?

[@Painless360]

Not really, the principle is still the same. Match the antenna to the type on the model. Happy flying!

[@bbsheppo]

@@Painless360 if you were only flying small tiny whoops can I ask what antennas you would use with a Rapidfire?

[@MitsukiHashiba]

Omni 5.8ghz ​@@bbsheppo

[@paulleon6057]

Late to the party on this but can some one help clear up some things for me please. I’m new to FPV. I’ve done so much research and sourced pretty much my first decent setup with what I can afford. I have the Jumper T-lite RC, the TinyHawk 2 Freestyle (stock config) and settled on the Eachine EV100 goggles. I’m after a patch antenna and a lollipop antenna for my goggles. I have learnt that I’m supposed to match them (L or R) right? 😅 but also have to make sure it works with my drone. I’m going round in circles here. If someone can help answer this for me it would be appreciated. I just want to get them ordered now so it’s all in place and I can work on my skills. Thanks in advance.

[@Painless360]

If the antenna on the model is a little straight one, then that's a linear antenna and this video is for that. If it has a little 'mushroom' antenna then you'll need a circular polarised antenna and a patch usually. I use MenaceRC stuff pretty exclusively here..

[@paulleon6057]

Thanks for the quick response. After watching your video I went to the Menace website to look at their products and contacted them to follow on from your content. He’s responded this morning which is great. You’ve both helped me better understand the topic 😅 So, the drone’s antenna is a linear one so I’m advised to get the new Viper linear patch antenna and to keep the other stock antenna to help improve the flight range. I’m looking at sorting that out today. Does it matter what side I put the patch antenna on? And is there a better antenna to replace the other stock one that you recommend?

[@Painless360]

Same advice as in the video.. Best of luck with it, I hope you like the MenaceRC stuff..

[@shadeshiest22]

Don’t know why ALL these newer 3inch down to whoops are now using cheap wire linear antennas, EVERYONE uses circular polarized antennas on their goggles, and stubby lollipops and micro axii antennas weigh NOTHING! Every quad 3inch down to 75mmwhoops should come with a micro axii at the least

[@Painless360]

Watch the other videos in the series for why... happy flying

[@shadeshiest22]

Painless360 oh really? Thanks I’ll check it out! Seen you around the community for years, I’ll have to subscribe!

[@1LittleTinker]

This type of work is greatly appreciated, thanks. I see and cannot deny the bench test, pure power gain received, but in real world where the transmit distance is much longer and multipathing potentially greater is it actually better? Would like to see a followup video field test. See Wayne's real world test where he concludes that at least for omni, (not patch), that skew circular omni was better from real world breakup perspective than linear duck: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3iYk6aCiNmgeNU I would love to see in house/building as well as outside real world test with omni linear vs skew/circular

[@Painless360]

The range makes little difference. The gist of this video remains valid - use linear with linear for the best results .. Happy flying!

[@1LittleTinker]

@@Painless360 have a look at wayne"s / curry kitten"s link above, his real world test had a different result for omni duck. Maybe Wayne's rubber duck was duff? Or maybe the difference in environment was the cause? Wayne's test was done flying closish to ground and going behind trees, no doubt moving within and out of fresnel zones and subject to more interference/multpathing. Although penalty is 3db for mixed polarisation perhaps the signal to noise ratio is better in the real world dodgy conditions in Wayne's vid. Will get out there and do some testing of my own