Frame Rates can affect your DPS! 10 Janky Mechanics of Final Fantasy 14 Dawntrail

[@UnstoppableSmooze]

I've experienced, "reverse slidecasting" where I'd stop running and begin to cast them get interrupted by a, "cannot cast while moving" message

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I've had this happen too, especially when I'm having latency issues

[@Laterose15]

I've started calling it "standcanceling" because I canceled the cast by standing

[@Ravemaster620]

I had this happen a couple times back in EW when I used TCJ. Was so confused and pissed

[@coaster1235]

sage is another diabolical job to play on high latency, when eukrasia takes ages to apply

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It is so problematic that it is one of the first jobs I recommend avoiding when someone asks for advice to play on latency! 😰

[@BjornStatenguard]

Get the addon. NoClippy. Even a high ping person can smoothly triple weave with it. Its amazing. I wouldn't play the game if it didn't exist ​@CaetsuChaijiCh

[@riaglitta]

I keep a "/smile" emote hotkey on my hotbar; it'll light up when I can start to slidecast!! And I always have a smiley face looking at me. :)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is a great way to utilize it! 😊

[@Stallord2292]

I think speak for many caster and healer players when I say that slidecasting is my favorite jank :3

[@lolthesystem]

Fun fact about RDM: Back in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, the cast time for the spells that triggered Dual Cast matched your GCD, meaning that even with a good connection, you STILL could occasionally get the dual cast buff, but start casting the next spell normally instead of using it. This is where the big aversion to SPS comes from, since the faster your GCD was, the more likely it was for that bug to happen. I had it happen several times during TEA prog back in Shadowbringers on a less than 40ms connection.

[@hoodiesticks]

I was about to volunteer my own jank mechanics, but then I remembered I found out about them from YOUR Mythbusters series, so you already know them all!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Haha! Who knows! Maybe some of them bears repeating! 😂😁

[@hoodiesticks]

@CaetsuChaijiCh The one I had in mind was about on-hit effects overwriting each other, so if you use both Vengeance and Arm's Length only the last one applies. I play a lot of low-level WAR, and that knowledge has come in handy so many times.

[@InnocentGuillotine]

Finding new fun ways my potato computer is impacting my dps Thank you for the video! I knew some of this, but others were new to me and I appreciate knowing it.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Hopefully it won't make a significant impact, but it is sometimes interesting to know if you have any way to play around it, right? 😊 I'm glad you found it helpful!

[@InnocentGuillotine]

⁠@@CaetsuChaijiChHaving 10-12 fps on average means it heavily impacting my gameplay is kind of unavoidable (the only solution is Git Gud and try to save up for better hardware, really), but it is generally remarkable just how many little things are affected by client FPS! No wonder Reaper has the nightmare that is an fps-dependent opener...

[@remi3246]

An interesting thing about the dot and hot ticks - each entity has their own internal timers. That's why when you apply a regen to your party who are all low health while they have a bleed on them (looking at you FRU p1) their hp bars can go up and down seemingly randomly, not taking the damage ticks at the same time. This is additionally interesting for speed killing groups where you're trying to cheese LB as fast as possible with gear changing before pull (equipping only a lvl 1 weapon and nothing else and then quickly swapping over to your regular gearset just before the boss is pulled) because sometimes you get insane lb gen for all the critical healing and sometimes one player's regen ticks just before the pull and pushes them out of the critical healing range. You can actually do some jank to sync up the party members' natural regen ticks by dying (because when you are dead your regen tick pauses) - both in legal and illegal ways but one of the more funny one is for arenas that have a bleed wall such as EX2 of dawntrail which if you all suicide to it will naturally sync up the natural hp regen ticks

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed! I wasn't exactly sure how it can sync up in duties, but I know it is possible! This is a great explanation for that!

[@SamoyedSagas]

The only reason I know any of this is because of that JP group that got caught botting their speedkills xD

[@jamesshaver1429]

16:44 this is the best way i've ever heard this mechanic explained, thank you Caetsu!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you so much! 😄

[@gamerdude295]

One thing I remember happening to me when I was on my old dying hard drive was that when I loaded the game for the first time in a day, I could do things like play a job with movement abilities, use those movement abilities, and nothing happens for like the 30 seconds it took for my game to actually load. Then suddenly I would be thrust to where I should be. Especially noticable with NIN's Shukuchi. I could be running somewhere in a city and would use Shukuchi to speed me up, but because the animations are still loading and it doesn't move me, I just keep running and then suddenly teleport behind where I was because I targeted a point that I've since ran past. I've had a few times I believe in raids when my PC was at its limit where just doing trial roulette would make it take ages to load the animations of the boss, and I'd get hit by stuff that should've killed me, but instead my death is delayed until my PC loads the animation and realises I got hit. I think this included other forms of knock back as well where my knockback would be delayed. I think I might have been given a vuln stack the moment the mechanic actually hits, but the damage came later.

[@strattaravar]

The last bit is part of why there's a rule in my static that you "do not perceive certain members of the static" because we're all abusing snapshots to gain uptime and mess with each other. Animation locking is even more brutal when dealing with mechanics like Motion Bombs on Ozma or Ordained Stillness in TEA or Pyretic (especially in DSR). Because those mechanics aren't based on game inputs, but rather character animations. So even if you stop moving for a pyretic, you can still die to damage well after your last actual input because you were casting Eukrasian Diagnosis right before it applied. The flip side is if you know which skills have low animation lock, you can effectively roll your GCD through a motion check and not have to ever stop doing damage.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Oh that last bit about rolling the gcd through things where you are supposed to stop is quite interesting, and quite obvious in retrospect! Thanks for mentioning it!

[@Gat720Dua]

Another example of jank is when the dev team tried to implement glamour dressers for housing but it crashed the whole server.

[@kita6502]

I love how i learned more about the game from these videos than any site or guide tells you. You feel the jank but you have no idea whats happening so you usually dont know how to deal with it

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I'm glad my guides are so helpful! Thank you! And yes definitely, having them demonstrated can definitely have this affirming effect! 😄

[@Qamikace]

The fact that Japan has good internet has been disastrous for multiplayer games made there, as most of them are made with the assumption that players don't have high ping and things like this entire video happen. Just ask people who play fighting games.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

At least some of those fighting games have those rollback features that makes it sort of work? 😰

[@lucalopez9604]

Fun thing about 7! To miss an attack because of late application is usually refeared as "ghosting" "I ghosted my rainbow drip" and you can actually force the game to immediatedly apply the damage by weaving. this can be easily tested out with PCT. the 3rd hammer hit takes like 5 days to register but if you immediatedly weave something like lucid dreaming it will come out much sooner. I have been getting good use of this tech in FRU.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Based on my own testing, even if you weave something, which makes the damage number appear immediately, the actual attack connecting happens at the normal delay (which is usually witnessed by your targets hp not moving earlier by weaving). A clean way to demonstrate this is with warriors nascent flash as the healing applied to the secondary target happens when the healing actually hits you, and if nascent flash ends before the heal applies to the warrior, then the secondary target will receive zero healing, even if you use a weave to make the healing numbers on you appear sooner! 🤔 So my question is are you sure this "tech" actually leads to you landing the damage? 🤔😊

[@dragonfave37]

Love whoever the person was who got your 26 acacia logs to get you 934 Gil in your pocket. You are rich beyond belief!

[@AzyPProductions]

Didnt know the framerate one, thanks!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It is definitely one of the weirdest game... "mechanics"! 😂

[@AzyPProductions]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh It's surprisingly common in games too. For example on Warframe, higher framerates will increase enemy spawns up to 200fps

[@dunethewanderer8944]

A lot of the older jank has been programmed out, such as Summoners being unable to summon egis if they have a Chocobo out, but one bit that I remember very distinctly is that Rescue can have both it's target's animation lock *and movement* delayed if the target's computer is struggling with rendering animations and effects in the current fight. This can result in, for the healer, a massive "wait, did it work" pause right before the character being Rescued is very suddenly yanked back to where the healer first cast the spell a second or two later and their character being animation locked, which if you needed to Rescue someone, might mean that their corpse suddenly slides across the battlefield.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that is true! I believe it is at least partly because player position is heavily dictated by what the client says rather than the server, so if the client pc is really slow to resolve the rescue (latency, or any other reason), it appears rescue is super slow!

[@EndlessWords-qs2di]

Shoutouts to Executioner’s Gallows for having a hit detection nearly as long as the GCD, before being explicitly stated in the 7.1 patch notes that it was shortened. (Also Chaotic Cyclone and Tenri Jindo, but Executioner’s Gallows definitely was the bigger offender.)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

The weirdest part about that one is that regular gallows didn't do that, and executioners gibbet didn't either so there was no good reason for it! With chaotic cyclone we at least had a case of a precedence since both decimate and steel cyclone equally had slow response times!

[@tituslupus5454]

I've experienced a lot of the tick-based jank when FATE farming as a queue pops. It then not only takes a second for the game to realize I'm no longer a valid target when I stop syncing, but also that I'm no longer participating in a FATE and can change jobs again.

[@steveh1474]

on #7, i got the Necromancer title as gunbreaker, but it wasnt without problems. Solid Barrel has this issue of the damage coming out late because of a long attack animation. this got me killed during the boss on floor 180, because the boss's animation played out faster than mine. there is a really dumb trick to this though, if you can weave an ogcd in before the animation finishes, you can force the damage to apply faster. so on every run after that, i hit provoke after solid barrel on that final gcd to kill the boss.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I gave a slightly longer explanation of this on a different comment, but based on my own tests, supposedly the damage doesn't come out quicker even though the damage numbers appear. Are you certain the damage wouldn't have landed in time just the same without this weaving tech? 🤔 Edit: i specifically just went and tested this hypothesis on an open world mob by setting it up so it would die to storms path, which has an extremely long time before it lands too. I then used storms path followed by weaving equilibrium which causes the damage number to appear, but the mob stayed alive until the timing where the damage normally lands 🤔

[@Osteichthyes]

My biggest jank is when I was playing on NA. I would use an ability and th3e animation would start, get half way through then stop if the boss disappeared or a buff like the old delirium wore off. Logically, I know it's because my games timer said I could use it, but when it went through to the server, the time has run out, so it auto-cancelled, or at least that is what I assumed. Didn't make much difference and could play around it well enough, but it was fun to see my character just give up half way.

[@HammerAndSickled]

8:25 hey man, congrats on the sale of your Acacia Logs, you deserve it 🥰 treat yourself! Lmao!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Me: "I'm not re recording this just because of this. Surely no one will notice!" Cut to today 😂

[@shadowofchaos725]

The "future" thing is funny when I explain to people. Really I just tell them to hit "follow" on their screen and I show my screen. It's what I do to explain sometimes when people get salty about the whole Fall Guys "teleportation" thing people get salty about.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Exactly, the fall guys "inconsistency" was what made a lot of players truly realize this mechanic, because it is precisely why this stuff happens! That is also an excellent way to demonstrate it!

[@xSuperMetroidx]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I don't agree that this is why it's occurring. Latency exists, but the effect is much less pronounced than you think. The actual reason there's a substantial difference between expectation and reality has to do with the difference between snapshot timing and animation- which is NOT caused by latency, but rather by deliberate design, or a lack of SqEx putting forth the effort to synchronize snapshots with animations plausibly, or the animation being too grandiose to have a good "moment" for snapshotting that is intuitive.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

@xSuperMetroidx okay. Let's just say this precise interaction also happens in other multiplayer games, and are particularly visible in mmos like wow. To give a completely different example, In shooters, there are mechanics like "shooters advantage" where even though the attacked dodge out of the way on their screen, the attacker having successfully landed their shot on their screen is decided as reality. It deals with the same kind of problem. It takes time for information to be sent and processed In fighting games, many have rollback mechanics where it tries to predict what each player is doing, and then adjusts somewhat on the fly to what ends up happening. In smash bros (specific fighting game), this feature does not exist, and instead each action has a very visible delay when played online, so much so that online matches have, effectively, their own separate Mets game from offline matches, because of advantages and disadvantages granted by this interaction. This might sound like pointing in random directions, but it is the same idea. The server cannot predict where you're going before you go somewhere 🤔😅

[@KINGOFTHESPARKS755]

Imagine playing rpr and you pop gluttony but miss the executioners because your latency missed the buff lmao

[@aguncomon]

As someone playing in EU but being from latin america, RDM is literally impossible to play some days. On the contrary, slide casting is super easy so at least I have some fun with it

[@liniu_]

Even low ping gives you some combat related problems. I have a average ping of 8, sometimes my casts get interupted after movement on like 1/5th of the cast bar. DRK in EW had a even worse problem with that ping, pressing bloodweapon and then a GCD on the next posible frame it would not give you gauge making you miss 10 gauge that you needed for esteem

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is quite interesting, that too good ping can lead to using things too fast and causing weird interactions!

[@janekgaganek3871]

The most annoying jank mechanic i experienced is your 'attack being canceled" by enemy moving, worst is when its moving towards you. Happened to me a lot on m4s if tank pulled in an off way. It sees it as if the enemy was too far away from your range. Another janky, but rare thing is in Heaven on High - if your teammate dies to mobs and you use petrification while the mobs deaggro and rush back to their spots, the mobs will become 'invulnerable' and wont die to petri. They do aggro from it tho, so one your floor wipe ends you got some angry guests to deal with

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah mob reseting is quite strange in this way 😅

[@siosilvar]

How about how AoE attacks (whether yours or an enemy's) always seem to apply to just one target at a time, just really quickly going through the list of everything that got hit until it's all finished? Most noticeable in dungeon megapulls, of course, but it happens everywhere.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that is also a weird one! I should include that if I make another set of ten! 😂

[@remi3246]

Oh god i didn't even think of that when watching the video - the classic exchange of "why did i die?" asks the physranged from 15 yalms away from the healer and gets the response of "HEALS ARE EXPANDING AOEs" or the on patch Omega Protocol Ultimate experience where 4 people die from the enrage cast going off but the rest live and you get the kill

[@JoshuaHarris-o4j]

One thing I hate is that the cursor is tied to the frame rate. The higher your frame rate, the faster the cursor moves around. I was playing with unlimited frame rate the other day and I could barely control my mouse. It was like playing an FPS with sensitivity cranked up to maximum. Sadly, you lose jiggle physics at frame rates higher than 60fps, so the trade off isn't worth it. Jiggle physics more important than DPS.

[@OnyxShard1]

Ohh number 3, how I feel that in my soul I play on NA as an AUS player, meaning depending on the server my ping ranges from as little as 160ms to a whopping 200ms (Yes I know that's not a lot but I'm exaggerating for Comedy). So many times when someone's started a download without throttling it's jumped my ping to upwards of 230ms and I get the dreaded buff delay Not very fun to get in savage, especially when everything freezes in place but you know that mechanics are still Happening so you gotta dodge in anticipation of said mechanics ✊😔

[@spetsu1]

I play on na and live in na and run into that issue far more than I should.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Even if the swing is only 40ms, it is pretty big relatively speaking, and a more consistent 200 would probably feel better than a swinging 160-200 due to the inconsistency... It really sucks 😰

[@TheLMBLucas]

THANK YOU. I'm tired of privileged people saying "Dawntrail is not hard, this game is easy". Lots of us have to deal with so much bs, it's insane! We need double the time to get good at any specific fight, without having double the time in real life.

[@sawyercustom]

OBS shows frame drops and maaaaaa n I drop frames often.. had such a lag spike it reset stream.. hate that.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

This can be due to your pc not having the resources to spare to stream. If that is the problem try reducing the settings on ffxiv so it isn't as intense. The pc I work with right now used to have a relatively stable 120 fps before dt, but has dropped to closer to 80-90 since dt, so that could be the cause. Another possible reason if the drops come in waves is uh... I don't even know I also have these problems. It is likely actual lag spikes on the connection, whether it is youtube or your isp I can't say. There is a setting in OBS to have a dynamic bitrate which CAN help somewhat so your stream doesn't break too much when these drops happen, but it doesn't change the fact the problems don't just go away. If it seems to be a connection thing you can also try using a VPN, replacing your internet cables, check if your router and so on are up to date etc. But the best I can offer you is that I also have these problems sometimes 😰

[@sawyercustom]

@ I’m on a 4/5 year old Mac mini that’s been well abused making content for my various pages. Run well over 10-15tb through it over the years. Obs had an update last night that messed with me hard. It’s almost like they design it for a pc then revise it for mac and it’s just glitchy till they fix the bug. Basically the chain is Mac to obs to restreamio, off to yt, twitch and kick. Obs honestly seems to be my problem child vs actual game issues. All good playing without Obs up, the roughter is new and wasn’t a cheap one. Wife works from home and needs quality internet for her job. I’m confident it’s either the old abused mini or a clash of coding. Note.. I’ve noticed while editing videos if I do a reaction my mic audio is on point, but screen recorded audio has a small echo. I don’t know if that’s black hole causing it cause of the internal repeat or why the echo is happening. But with the Mac I can’t record computer audio without black hole. While streaming there is no echo from the game, from my monitoring laptop on twitch or yt. It’s weird. I appreciate everything you do.. love the content.. thank you so very much.

[@kitsunehanyou09]

First time I'm early to your video! It would be great if someone could subtitle this video in Japanese and send it to the devs, show them we have people like you who understand the mechanics in their game to a mathematical level. Maybe give them a reason to give our stats a bit more clarity like what having 2200 critical hit actually means, or giving us a way to have an in game ruler

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I have a feeling the devs might already know that we know, but it would be nice to know for sure that they know! I also absolutely agree that it is wild we can't see how valuable our stats are in game! 😂

[@Colaschnittchen]

How do you see the dot dmg at 15:00? I am curious

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

What do you mean by how? If you have damage numbers turned on (on by default), you can see these numbers all the time. They just tend to meld in with other things because they have the same color and font size as attacks from other players and such, so they are difficult to see in a real fight 😊

[@siosilvar]

took me like 20 minutes to find the setting but it's Character Configuration > UI Settings (third from the top) > HUD > Display pop-up text.

[@Colaschnittchen]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Yeah I just realized, that I have to show all damage numbers, even other players damage to show my dot dmg. Which means that I cant see my dot dmg in all that clutter. Uff

[@arohk4415]

Red mage is literally unplayable with Higher latency, if you cast a spell and use the apell queue it will often hard cast the next spell because it happens before you get doublecast.

[@LarkyLuna]

I have no idea what it is so in my head I call it an FF Tactics cast But why do casts sometimes miss when the target moves? The mob doesn't die, doesn't become untargetable, it just decides to move somewhere and my casts finish on Interrupted. Most of the time it doesn't even look like they moved out of range I think this happens somewhat consistently on fast running mobs on maps, but still rare enough that I try to use casts on them and miss

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I think this can happen more with latency, because usually it is because the mob got too far away, or Alternatively turned a corner so you no longer have vision of it 🤔

[@spark9189]

i find it funny that, like, half of these would be fixed if the things they affect were handled client side instead of server side

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

On the other hand, something like where your character is, is at least partly handled client side, and is what bots use to teleport. So while it would be super neat, we can already see how quickly players (and bots) will abuse any trust the server gives the client! 😂

[@panda6907]

Does ARR count as "jank"

[@TheLMBLucas]

The game needs a full rework for some mechanics and some timing tweaking for others.

[@arknightsboi2050]

Some of things things I dont find jank tbh and just part of the game. Hell the last ghost part is something in OSRS and honestly a lot worse i feel there. Its honestly weird going to other games sometimes where its so snappy like Hollow knight and it just doesnt feel right.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I do agree. But these kinds of things feel so normal for players that are used to it. In fact, the moment I played ffxiv for the first time I knew that ghosting effect was there since it was there in wow. And osrs. And guild wars. And guild wars 2. And so on! 😅 Indeed, some of the other mechanics might not fully qualify as outright jank, but for a new player I think they might as well be! 😊

[@kohlicoide2258]

Not a mechanic but... FF14 has better jiggle physics when you play it with a 60 fps limit *cough*

[@BitterBlack]

And this is why Noclippy is super CHEATY while also simultaneously being one of the most morally okay Plug-ins I hear others use Because it's almost embarrassing that a game like ATLYSS feels less jank to play online 😅

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It is a very awkward conversation because some players basically feel like a plug-in like that is what enables them to just play the game. On the other hand, such plug-ins wouldn't be needed if the game wasn't this janky! 😅

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, given the FRU debacle, they may have to start cracking down on any plug-ins or mods, and while FFXIV is playable without mods, it is insane that the game has that much jank that what is literally a debug option is needed to really understand what goes under the hood.

[@xSuperMetroidx]

I don't believe the final explanation is accurate at all.

[@fonfon575]

ffxiv is not really janky