Frank Dikötter "China and the World since 1949"

Frank Dikötter has been Chair Professor of Humanities at the University of Hong Kong since 2006. Before coming to Hong Kong he was Professor of the Modern History of China at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. He graduated with his PhD in History from the School of Oriental and African Studies after doing his undergraduate work at the University of Geneva. He has published a dozen books, including the People’s Trilogy about modern China. Mao’s Great Famine: The History of China’s Most Devastating Catastrophe, won the 2011 Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction, Britain’s most prestigious book award for non-fiction. The second instalment, The Tragedy of Liberation: A History of the Chinese Revolution, 1945-1957, was short-listed for the Orwell Prize in 2014. The Cultural Revolution: A People’s History, 1962-1976 concludes the trilogy and was short-listed for the PEN Hessell-Tiltman Prize in 2017.
More about Frank
www.frankdikott...
For more information and lectures, visit George Washington Forum
www.gwfohio.org

[@groweg]

Dikkoter appreciates the structural continuity of China's governance in the communist mold since the Revolution of 1949 and that political reform will not follow economic reform. He also understands how dictatorships in general operate. With China's increased role in the world Dikkoter's thinking is of utmost relevance and importance. His books are awesome!

[@brothernet]

非常🈶️深度的采访。谢谢分享。

[@elainehiggins713]

History uses people and discards them (Hegel). One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. (Stalin)

[@cueva_mc]

Great interview

[@mrniceguy7168]

That intro music reminds me of something I heard in a Final Fantasy game

[@kevinjjfr]

...Well I'm glad you have heard it somewhere.

[@claudiohammerklavier]

I got it...Tifa's theme. In case you don't know the actual name, it's Bach's cello suite no. 1 - prelude.

[@stevelenores5637]

If the rumors are true about Xi Japing, Frank Dikötter's newest book is already out of date.

[@DavidInSydney1]

Sorry... meaning?

[@stevelenores5637]

@@DavidInSydney1 I wrote that before the book came out. Apparently the rumors weren't true. Since I wrote that 6 months I can no longer remember what those rumors were at that time.

[@truthaboveall7988]

I heard the best analysis of the China model on Ben Norton w guest Roland Boer - the idea that the west has democracy & China does not is pretty quickly debunked once u understand that the American model was founded on the largest genocide in the history of mankind (we prefer to blame Mao for famines ignoring our bloody history) In the US we have socialism for the rich/corporations we privatised our financial institutions we privatised everything we could we let the Church walk us backward so we r now becoming Hungary but w out their common sense decisions on China China didn’t need to conquer the world as the largest economy for 17 centuries U guys kill me - democracy is only a thing u have when u don’t have total corporate capture of ur country China is at least interested in its people - their Govt is far more democratic than America Please visit there & talk to the people America bans more books than China & in fact China has more freedom than we do in the US where any minute I may b mass massacred

[@marcelolima77]

This reminds me of that old Soviet joke: "Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR, just like in the USA?" Radio Yerevan answers: "In principle, yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House and yell, "Down with Reagan!", and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in the Red Square in Moscow and yell, "Down with Reagan!", and you will not be punished." With all the faults the US has it is by far a better leader for the world than communist China - you seem to have learned nothing from 20th century history. The Chinese empire (meaning it had colonies) didn't disappear with communism, it just had a name change - the colonies just happen to be at the borders and not in other continents. The Chinese government has spent huge amounts of its people's wealth in white elephant projects that have no real economic return - the chickens are coming home to roost now that the economy is struggling and can't generate wealth. China is still a poor country and still wasted so many resources, it's quite incredible. The credit for the any impressive real economic growth goes to Chinese entrepreneurs, the CCP has often just gotten in the way with their interference. China started as one of the poorest in the world, poorer than in 1949, as the CCP spent a few decades destroying people and wealth. Frankly, if the way you think is so closely aligned with CCP propaganda it's perhaps time to stop and reflect (unless you are a propagandist yourself?).

[@kathylo4943]

This guy talks as if he knows /understands China. He does NOT. His thots are constrained by what he thinks he knows which is micro not macro . He does NOT and would not hv the open mindedness of trying to put himself in the Chinese leaders’ shoes there and then and there and now. China was poor. China had been and still is being bullied. He did not live thru the era in China long enough.

[@under18fearless]

At least they built infrastructure that benefit the people with the printed money. In the US the Fed print the money but goes to the 1% without any infra to benefit the general populace. Which is better?

[@DavidInSydney1]

But the US is far richer than China so there is a lot more benefit to Americans than there is to Chinese, in infrastructure and many other aspects of a modern economy. So you have it exactly the wrong way around.

[@kg8489]

He makes a lot of mistakes in this interview. Firstly, Chiang Kai Shek was no democrat (he massacred millions of his political opponents- no mention of that conveniently). The KMT had a Leninist structure, and its leaders studied political organisation in Moscow. To frame Chiang and his one party state as champions of liberal democracy is ridiculous. Secondly, his assertion that capitalism entails liberalism is just stupid. There are scores of capitalist dictatorships, past and present, on every continent. Thirdly, separation of powers is not the same as liberal democracy. It's a safeguard of that system, but not a synonym or a necessary part of it.

[@NoreenHoltzen]

The great cause of the famine was Western propaganda. Dikotter frames his analysis from the perspective that ignores the initial conditions of China and what they achieved through their plight (literacy from 10% to 80% under Mao, radical improvements in healthcare, etc). Dikotter’s figures of 40 or 20 million starving are cyclically referenced (pseudoscientific) and primary sources are *selected* to match the desired conclusion (confirmation bias). The figures are trumpeted because of our *real* qualm over Mao - we were unable to maintain or take control of China. The phrase “Loss of China”’ was in our newspapers frequently in the 1950s, which is telling, as it assumes you have to own something before you can lose it. Regarding deaths, look up the increase in life expectancy from 1950 until 1978 - it rose dramatically from Mao’s reforms, so he saved lives almost radically. If you think about it you have to respect for China successfully fending of western imperialism prior to 1948, a profoundly difficult achievement. Look at the result of the other major regions that failed in this regard (Africa, India, even aboriginal Australia, etc). Respect to Mao and vast bulk of the ordinary population for protecting China from outside interference. Mao also did the forgotten but crucial work of rural health development programmes saving 100 million lives and modernizing architecture which set the conditions to make the industrialisation that followed being possible. Life span increased dramatically, rights of females and literacy increased from 10% to 90% under Mao. Rather than cherry picking setbacks give respect where respect is due.

[@DavidInSydney1]

What a long comment. And full of Marxist nonsense. I was astounded to learn that Chinese in the early 70s were poorer than they were in 1949. That really says it all. Then there's the 45,000,000+ people killed in the “Great Leap Forward” which in typical Marxist fashion turned out to be the great leap backwards. Cultural Revolution anyone? Capitalism created our amazing rich, free and humane civilisation. Women are free and equal, slavery abolished. Unfortunately capitalism begat socialism/communism which has created nothing and been a catastrophe for every country that has succumbed to it. Imagine if China had continued after the Second World War with becoming a successful capitalist country with democracies such as Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. Imagine what a benefit that would be for the Chinese and for the world!

[@marcelolima77]

I wonder how many deaths from the great leap forward you would consider scientific? The bigger point being Mao's actions lead to enormous numbers of dead. You ignore the progress that was already being made under the nationalists pre-Japanese attack. Would the dead in China have been greater or lower with another regime than Mao's? Well, difficult to make historical counterfactuals, but to be worse it would have to be one that was particularly vicious. 20 to 40 million deaths - the estimates vary widely, but these are numbers within the accepted range. This information is easy to verify, including online. So what is your agenda here? To exculpate all the unnecessary death and suffering under the communists in China?