Frank Shamrock on the 'Science' of Fighting Cung Le

[@leolaff]

Seemingly good analysis. No wonder he is so confident. He has convinced himself from every angle. He certainly gives more detailed answers than most interviewees. I like that he feels he can give away most of his game plan and it still won't help his opponent overcome his chronic weaknesses. Too bad for Frank that it didn't work out that way.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

He's a great Showman. He knows how to hype a fight. The fight with Baroni really delivered. I hope this one does as well.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Cung is known for being nervous before fights when there is alot of pressure. Even someone as confident as Rampage got nervous at his UFC debut. It would be a good idea for Cung to fight 1 or 2 B-level opponents like Leben before facing Anderson Silva. Right now Dana is very interested in signing Cung but Cung still has 2 fights on his Strikeforce contract and appears to be more interested in making movies at the moment. The clock is ticking as he isn't getting any younger.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

@TheSsjkd This video was produced before the fight actually. This was Shamrock's analysis of Cung and prediction for the fight.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Me too. He's only got a few years left. I'd like him to concentrate on finishing his career and then focus on his movies. Right now his movie schedule is decreasing his MMA activity.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

I'm critical of Dana myself but I'd like to see Cung in the UFC to see him face the Top MWs in the division. Cung has expressed openness to the idea and stated Dana has given him offers but for now he is honoring his Strikeforce contract. Until then Santiago, Misaki and Lawler are his most likely possible opponents.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

What's ironic is that not only did Cung Le predict that the power of his kicks would be his defining advantage in this fight but the commentators made note of the risk Frank was making in blocking those kicks because they could break his arm. Frank did a decent job of analyzing Cung's strengths and weaknesses but over estimated his ability to deal with Cung's style and the power of those kicks. He learned a tough lesson. But I doubt he'll be more humble in the future. :P

[@MysticNinjaJay]

And as you said, Cung Le is a good wrestler. An All-American Collegiate Wrestling Champion to be exact. We should expect him to have a strong takedown defense thanks to his Wrestling and San Shou background. We won't know until a skilled grappler commits to taking him down but so far he has thwarted every takedown attempt including the ones Shamrock tried in the 1st Round.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

I agree. Cung has an All-American Collegiate Wrestling and San Shou world champion background, a sport where a strong TDD while striking is essential. He doesn't need a great ground game if he is hard to put on his back and keep there. I personally don't watch Cung Le fights to see his ground game. If he can Sprawl and Brawl in ever fight that's great. But he is untested against a skilled grappler. How his TDD will hold up against guys like Marquardt and Henderson is an important question.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Aside from saying Cung was not a good striker a agree with most of his analysis. I found his claim to prophetic dreams about his fights amusing. Amazingly he did back Cung up against the cage and elbow him against the head or neck, going for the KO. But those kicks took their toll and Cung landed one good one that snapped the bone completely putting Shamrock away.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Cung has been competing in combat sports for many years now. I'm just thankful that he isn't retiring and finally making a move towards the UFC. At 36 he really doesn't have too many years left. He will probably retire soon and pursue a movie career full time.

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

You got it. That was specific advice for Frank. I use to play the full contact point tourney game when Martial artist were real Martial Artist, Many a guys have had their forearms Broken from trying to block or fingers and wrists snapped from trying to grab a kick, or wrestlers, and newaza only fighters, heads smashed during takedown attempts. But to todays fighters credit, they are all excellent brawlers. Something to be said for that, I guess?

[@MysticNinjaJay]

I think that Frank Shamrock is a true Mixed Martial Artist. His knowledge of the fight game is immense. He was brought up as a submission fighter and learned striking from world class trainers earning him the reputation as the pioneer and prototype of Modern MMA. I think he analyzed Cung Le's strengths and weaknesses well but he underestimated his striking ability.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

As you can see from this video he always intended to stand with Cung. He wanted to prove his standup was better. I can respect that but Frank underestimated Cung and paid the price. Frank is more of a defensive grappler. He hasn't been a takedown artist since his Pancrase days. Some blame his bad knees. I think it's just been his preference to stand and only grapple when the opponent takes him down (ex. Ortiz) since he started training kickboxing with Maurice Smith.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Yes, Cung has 3 movies in production right now. Tekken, Fighting and Pandorum. He's taking a break from fighting for the rest of the year. I hope he takes a break from movies and is active in MMA again next year. It's hard to do both.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

@Ruffruff2006 Well if you watch this video Frank said that he wasn't looking to go to the ground and that he felt Cung's chin was his weakness. People forget that Cung Le is an accomplished wrestler. He was All-American in high school and college wrestling as well as a state champion in college. Frank says he was never able to get him down in training. Plus Frank wanted payback for Cung beating him up in their old sparring sessions. He wanted to win the fight by standing and trading.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Nothing has been scheduled so far. He's working on movie projects for the rest of 2008. There are talks of him signing a 3 fight contract with the UFC and facing Anderson Silva. I expect his next fight to be either Misaki or Santiago in 2009.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

I think that Cung proved that he was the better striker in that fight. He outclassed Frank. Who knows what would happen if they had a rematch. If Frank used his full MMA game maybe he could win. We won't know unless they rematch.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Georges St. Pierre agrees with Jeffery's philosophy. He said that there are alot of fighters in MMA but few true Mixed Martial Artists. In order to be a high level Martial Artist you must be proficient in a discipline. Many MMA fighters are Jacks of all trades. But some of them like GSP, Machida, Anderson Silva etc. are complete fighters. True Martial Artists.

[@sellingounces]

I give shamrock the credit for his ability to create conflict, hence lead to excitement, this skill really have made this fight well known to people. Otherwise, people simply skip through it, and both shamrock and cung le end up injure themselve without making that much money out of people curiousity mind. Frank Shamrock is truely a genius

[@MysticNinjaJay]

At the very least I give Frank credit for being a man of his word and showing class in defeat. But what this fight made me realize about Frank is he isn't competing to be the best fighter in the world. A fighter who limits their skill set for a championship match isn't competing to be the best they can be. They're in it to prove a point. Frank does not care about rankings or his legacy, only hand-picking fights he wants.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Frank has certainly improved. No question there. His training partner, Maurice Smith, is one of the best kickboxers in history and earliest successful MMA strikers. What I'm referring to is his arrogance in insulting Cung's standup game. To say Cung is not a good striker then get beat by him exposed Frank when all he had to say was he's good but sees holes he intends to exploit. As for the lack of ACL it's only speculation that it hurts his takedown ability. Frank says he is 100% after rehab.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

His ability to still transition from standing to grappling is what he proved against Baroni. I don't think Renzo exposed much other than Frank's Antijuijitsu he boasted being overrated. All Renzo did was LNP while Frank hit him with knees from his back. Frank was never known for a great Takedown defense. Cung's own TDD is great yet untested in MMA. A skilled grappler hasn't committed to taking him down yet. Frank tried 2 body locks one off a spin kick and a Standing Guillotine. That's it.

[@Ezekiel222]

The side that falters more , due to fatigue ,is the side that usually fails when the time is most critical. Anaerobic Conditioning, Aerobic conditioning and strength are tools needed to help building a complete fighter. Thats what they are... tools. IMO the biggest hole in many fighters within MMA is striking and striking within the clinch (whether this is using clinches from muay thai, greco roman or trapping from Wing Chun).

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

It depends what arts they mix and their technical proficiency at them. I will explain more, and give examples of how strength can mask poor technique and excellent technique should be the main cornerstone. The power should be your center and not a cornerstone it should possess both the yin and the yang. I speak from experience, and don't think I don't have power, watch my videos with me in them, and you can see that.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Cung does want a rematch. He and Frank were supposed to fight after the Diaz fight but Shamrock lost. Cung is the champion, they can't have him fight someone coming off a loss. Cung is doing movies right now so he will be out for awhile. It sucks but if he wants to star in movies that's his business.

[@Ezekiel222]

I am well aware of the concepts of internal energy and external energy. As I have trained in Ba Gua and in the Shaolin Five Animals. And I agree that the mechanics of a large number of fighters are sloppy or completely off in the stand up portion of the fights. The grappling on the other hand is pretty proficient due to the high level of Judokas, BJJ, Shoot fighters, Freestyle and Greco roman wrestlers in MMA.

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

If conditioning and strength are your cornerstone attributes for success, they will also be the cornerstone attributes in which you fail.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Cung actually has a great wrestling pedigree so I think it would be very difficult for Frank to take the fight to the ground. He tried to stand with him and got his arm broken for his trouble. Maybe he'll have better luck next time but I think Cung is a higher class of fighter though Frank was a legend. Cung's problem is that he has gone Hollywood. He needs to take a break from movies and start challenging himself in MMA. He only has a few years left.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Provide a source for this claim, Lex. Shamrock's ears were bleeding but he most certainly broke his arm. They even say he needs a metal plate to hold the bones together. Source: Yahoo Sports!

[@bubbleman441]

Does anyone know the name of the song playing in the background?

[@Ruffruff2006]

@MysticNinjaJay Ookay...please correct me of this if I am wrong...I remembered that before the fight that Frank announced that he would not go to the ground. Is this true that Frank announced this?

[@AIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]

Frank is a great wrestler, and based on what we've seen on other matches, taking Cung to the ground suggest Frank would have an advantage. But with fighters of this caliber(however you spell), you can't rule them out just cause they are in a disadvantageous spot. Likewise, just because Cung broke Frank's arm in that fight, nobody turned off the TV and said, ok, Cung won. We stuck around and watched it. Respect to both men though.

[@Ruffruff2006]

@tldinh please correct me of this if I am wrong...I remembered that before the fight that Frank announced that he would not go to the ground. Is this true that Frank announced this?

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

How can you ask a question that was just explained?

[@superlyger]

He's a great fighter, perhaps less a 'scientist' than Sakuraba whos style he just described as his approach towards this fight. The irony is that they both had their arms broken by superior strikers in their last fights; Sakuraba- Manhoef and Shamrock-Le.

[@MrMarioski]

Great fight..If there is a rematch Frank will mostly take it to the ground

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Yeah. I didn't like how he said Cung wasn't a good striker just an ok striker. He could have said that Cung was a good striker but he sees alot of holes in his game that he plans to exploit. It didn't work out for him and now he has to swallow the fact that his own standup game is not as good as he boasted it to be.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

He was not winning the fight. He lost every Round. He didn't rock Cung until the 3rd Round. He went for the KO but couldn't finish. Cung recovered, broke his arm and then Frank was saved by the bell. But the damage had been done. He could not come out for the 4th. Frank's arm may have been fractured as early as the first Round but it didn't make a difference. Cung completely tooled him save for the 1 1/2 mins of the 3rd Round.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Cung is far more adept at striking than Shamrock and one of the top 5 strikers in MMA I believe. Frank is a bit ego maniacal. He likes to outdo fighters. He kept his promise to stand with Cung the way he did Baroni and was just outclassed. It may have been a very different fight if he had committed to takedowns. Maybe we'll see a rematch. I expect either Misaki or Santiago to fight Cung next. Someone a bit more humble than Frank will be the one to test Le's ground game.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Frank has admitted that he doesn't follow the sport, doesn't care about rankings etc. He only wants fights that draw crowds and make business sense to him. He hand-picks fights now. I don't like that he limited himself just to prove a point against Cung. I wanted to see Cung tested too. Cung's biggest challenge will likely come from a more humble, hungrier fighter. His next opponent may be Misaki or Santiago. I trust that they'd take it to the ground at any opportunity.

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

What does the word "sensei" mean? look it up Infusionlabs.

[@tldinh]

It's amazing that Frank and his fans still try to discredit Cung's victory. Frank said that hadn't his arm broken, he would have won. Whatever, I would've won the lottery if a few more numbers came up right. And his fans say that the arm break was a fluke-WTF? Those high kicks from Cung were deliberate and meant to hurt if anyone didn't know that. I had respect for Frank after watching his video on comradery and honor, but I lost it when he made up excuses after the fight.

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

The emphasis is on Art and Skill. Not conditioning and strength. Quality martial arts has more dimensions than just what you see. Whether you "grapple" or not has nothing to do with technique and skill.

[@sellingounces]

Frank got it right with the elbowling cung on the side of his neck.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

There are always some stragglers. I should have asked if you were willing to bet on it. :P

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Frank has good takedowns, but not the greatest TD defense, true. I think he would have had a hard time getting a wrestler like Cung to his back but he had a choice. He could've grappled. I read an article that claimed Frank's knees are too bad to shoot and that is why he prefers to stand in every fight, even why his TD defense is weak. I don't believe that. I'd get excited about my standup if I trained with Mo Smith for years too. Frank's TD "D" was never great, he likes being on his back.

[@tldinh]

It's funny that after the fight Frank makes these videos to show off his injuries and his high pain tolerance and says how much the arm break hurt him, but he keeps saying that Cung has no power. If that's the case, put Frank against someone with power like Robbie Lawler and he would be dead after 1 rd then.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

He broke arm (ulnar bone) and fractured his wrist.

[@MegaGuitarplayer92]

He’s got no power in his strikes and he’s not that great of a stand up fighter and he broke your arm what does that make you?

[@StruggleEndure]

He knocked out Baronia

[@Ezekiel222]

So are you saying that these fighters have no skill or art? I would argue against that easily. Conditioning and strength are cornerstone attributes to being a successful martial artist. You need to emphasize cardiovascular conditioning and the multiple types of strength. But they are just two of the multiple aspects of combat. A significant number of battles, whether in unarmed or armed combat, are won and lost based on fatigue and exhaustion. But I guess from your previous statement, this

[@Ezekiel222]

But my question still looms. Why aren't some (notice I said some, because I know not all) proficient and great mixed martial artists, "martial artists"

[@dss103]

@powrone Which goes to show how fucking HARD Cung Le kicks!

[@justlegal21]

is that his Face like swolen up or did he change.. he looks different

[@AIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]

I agree lol, I'm just saying at this level of fighting, we can't completely rule one fighter out. It's very disrespectful. Fighters learn and change all the time, to condemn a fighter based on a few fights, I don't even know how to begin on the degree of disrespect. All it takes is just a small slip up for either fighter, and the fight can change dramatically. In this case Cung came out on top, but it is just not enough to show that Cung is better than Frank. Same if it had been other the way.

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Frank loves to taunt and get into fighters heads. He does that whether he wins or loses. His problem was that he tried to outstrike the better striker. By the 1st Round he should have realized Cung was a better striker and gone to Plan B, get him to the ground and work for a Sub. His arrogance was his downfall.

[@Sthriven]

i hope dana puts him against a few UFC fighters first b4 he has cung face anderson silva. so that he can adjust to fighting in the UFC b4 facing a monster like silva

[@MysticNinjaJay]

LMAO! That's so harsh but so true.

[@Ezekiel222]

isn't real martial arts. There are strikers out there within the MMA world that are fantastic strikers, and not brawlers, such as Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva, Andrews Nakahara, Mirko Filopovic, Thiago Alves, George St. Pierre, Vitor Belfort.

[@Ezekiel222]

That makes absolutely no logical sense what you just said. If what you are saying, is that the time that I do not put into technique training will be the fall of me ( i am using myself as an example) then I can understand what your saying and getting at. But realize I said they are two of MULTIPLE aspects to combat. To deny physical prowess in a fight is to set yourself up for failure. This has been proven time and time again and not only in unarmed fighting but also in war as well.

[@willp2042]

No matter what you have said the fact that you had lost that fight

[@OneStar-76]

hmm sounded like a nice dream-but thats what is was 'A Dream' stick 2 a fight plan- u prob would of won

[@gbadam1]

they all end up looking like that ! he has his face smashed in for a living

[@Ezekiel222]

So only if you break forearms and aren't a grappler then you aren't a martial artist. The grammar of your posts confuses me.

[@Panther704]

Give it up Frank. You play his game and he beat you fair and square, why make excuses? Now if he would of gone to the ground with you than I would think you have more chance of victory. A fight is a fight, win or lose just accepted and learn from it.

[@TheSsjkd]

cmon now damage has been done and a lot of people saw it . you got a broken arm and Cung Le won.. I say have a re match and prove it.. It is very easy to say and all this things after the fight. If it is in a real fight you have lost and there would be score cards on the street.

[@paulie40zx]

haha a ittle bit like a mix of couture and hendo

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Why don't you join the army? You can get payed to kill people without going to prison.

[@zzzthaoster]

cung would beat shamrock worst this time, I believe now that cung knows what he can do and can't do. jmo

[@TheParkBadBoy]

Well he broke your arm Frank, hope now you consider his stand up a bit better than OK

[@JPain15k]

Frank Shamrock would pwn Ken Shamrocks face.

[@JeffreyJamesLippold]

Quit trying to block the KICKS! Just get out of there or learn some traditional ju-jutsu or combat tai chi kick takedowns!

[@peterdough]

yeah who broke his arm? cung le did so there is no excuse that frank was better

[@Ezekiel222]

How aren't these guys 'real' martial artists?????

[@neutralsian]

he said cungs attacks are weak. hahah cung broke his arm 1st round

[@McClinchey09]

i think hes the most biased commentator ever allowed to hold a microphone. he tells shields he doesnt respect him, after shamrock had been ducking shields for years. then after zaromskis dropped diaz he started cheering like wtf. Strikeforce puts on great fights but wow to build up this guy as your hall of famer is kinda sad.

[@johnmkrs83]

all this shit he talks about his style and weak points and then gets his ass kicked by him lol

[@zcarenow]

i want to see cung le in a movie playing a bad guy like this dude in white. youtube dot com/watch?v=vZs48lJXhxM

[@MysticNinjaJay]

Nope. He already lost.

[@Frogger0neXx]

just kidding man. just trying to push some buttons.

[@EdOoi]

he wanted to copy Bruce Lee talking about move like water and shit but he sounded like Tom cruise in scientology..

[@Frogger0neXx]

frank shamrock will win this fight againts cung le.

[@piemister1]

lol he got owned hes not a scientist :p

[@Daboogiepimp]

cung le is not a good stand up fighter. thats why he broke your arm. PWNED

[@crystalstarburst]

keep dreaming.

[@yosheeut88]

hahaahahah he lost