Freemasonry & Secret Societies in the GMC

[@NicholasRailton]

So glad to see this being discussed. A very important balanced interview ! One of Charles Wesley's sons became a Mason and held office in the organisation. John Wesley wrote a short critique of a book on Freemasonry which is in his journal. In the 19th century Freemasonry riddled American Methodism and the New York Free Methodists broke off largely due to this issue (slavery and pew rents were the other issues). Dozens of Methodist bishops in the pre-World War II period were Masons. A Mason who comes to faith MUST, as Chance says, 1. ask forgiveness for taking the private, extra-judicial, blood-curdling oaths; 2. burn the regalia (aprons, rings, etc.), books, etc.; 3. write a letter to the lodge you are a member of, ideally with a testimony; 4. the wives of Masons can also be seriously impacted as a result of the one flesh. Sometimes someone skilled in exorcism may be required. (An ex-Mason told me his testimony about this aspect). I agree that the GMC should have a prohibition on membership in ANY lodge system in its constitution. Otherwise, problems will most certainly ensue. There is a lot of serious literature on the topic (and, unfortunately, a lot of conspiracy literature). Charles Finney's book is a good starting point. French Masons can be atheists. British Methodism has been more critical of Masonic links, by the way.

[@lhamby]

Thank you for this Jeffery. My husband and l have served Methodist churches for over 20 years. Now in the GMC. We have encountered Free Masons in all of our churches and in church leadership. I am also an Asbury student and will be reaching out to Chance for advice on handling some of those folks. This is so important.

[@mistersteve5354]

The Discipline of The Wesleyan Church (2022) contains the following: "... refraining from membership in secret societies and lodges which are oath bound, believing that the quasi-religious nature of such organizations divides the Christian’s loyalty, their secret nature contravenes the Christian’s open witness, and the secret nature of their oaths is repugnant to the Christian conscience."

[@mistersteve5354]

This goes to the core. I was once a Mason (Blue Lodge MM, York Rite KT). I agree. It falls under the rubric of what Charles Talbert referred to as "First Commandment faithfulness" (Apocalypse, p. 11). That is complete and undivided allegiance to the God revealed to us in Christ.

[@alanrogers5106]

My Mother's side of the family were Presbyterian and Freemason. Our family has suffered greatly from this legacy. Thank you for taking a stand.

[@darthnocturnis3941]

I definitely think the "oaths of office" we take need to be considered more carefully as Christians. At one point, I had enrolled in a Master's program to pursue licensing as a BCBA (Behavior Analyst). One of the first two classes I took for that was ethics for BCBAs. After going through almost the entire class, I was both convinced and saddened that I would not be able to pursue that work in any sort of professional capacity. The reason was because the expectation was to do what was right for the client in the eyes of the institutional understanding, which is humanist at the center. So, even though I appreciate behavioral psychology and have seen and carried out the good it can do for those with special needs, it wasn't a good place for me as a Christian. This is something that many are going to have to wrestle with as this culture continues its freefall in sin. Even professions where the purpose is the health and well-being of our neighbor are going to be tangled up with philosophies and principalities which are in direct opposition to what Christians hold to be true. In my state, any professional who is licensed by the state can have their license stripped for speaking out against unbiblical sexual ethics, even if they are doing so on their own time. The United States may not be asking Christians to offer a pinch of incense to pagan deities by name, but this country is most definitely demanding a pinch of ethics to their corrupted viewpoints.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

I watched the entire video and appreciated it, but not particularly agreed with it. I am a lodge member, also York Rite and Scottish Rite. I was inactive for many years but have begun re-attending meetings for a while. Church and political business is not discussed where I attend lodge, usually once per month. I think I appreciate that the founding fathers did not necessarily follow the idea of no politics when meeting. Many of them were masons and would discuss varying things when the revolution that led to this country of freedoms was planned. To me, it looks as though your disagreement is, in large part, based on policies found in a church discipline document. The church body I have grown up in uses no 'manual', and I have no allegiance to such a document, but I understand that you do. You are not alone in the anti-masonic arena. The Catholic church has that feeling, and thus their Knights of Columbus was born. I know that some Lutheran groups also follow that procedure, and members in my fellowship have, even writing literature to the extent of revealing certain passwords, etc. I may have missed it, but I did not catch a follow-through on the king of Tyre passage. Many Christians also view that as not only a condemnation of that king, but also as descriptive of Lucifer and his problems. I'm sorry I lost where you were going with that. Any way, please continue your studies in this area when needed. I pray for the success of the GMC, and for the UMC to soon return to a more sane way of belief.

[@sherrywilliamson2978]

Yes, women are pastors in the GMC.

[@jonathansmith336]

He's right. And this world view of the Masons is really just one manifestation of the general pluralistic syncretic world view in the culture at large. You mentioned the Mennonites and Amish, whose Anabaptist ancestors critiqued the fusion of church and state in terms of exclusive or primary loyalty to Jesus, and paid dearly for it in many cases.

[@michelehart8535]

One thing I wish that the Global would have picked a different name that did not use Methodist in the name. Could of gone with global Wesleyan church. We needed to get away from the Methodist stigma.

[@davewhite756]

People leaving the umc don't mind it, and they want to reach the lost not sheeps in other flocks.

[@miniprepper8284]

Some of the biggest jerks that I have met in church have been masons. Upon shaking the hand of one particular guy in greeting in the hallway, he proceeded to criticize my hand grasp... too weak, he said. He was all about the handshakes. I am a woman, not a lumberjack. He came over to my house and critiqued the decor after asking to see the inside of our home. I guess the symmetry wasn't up to his standard. Very arrogant person. He was highly regarded by other masons in our previous UMC church because of his high masonic status.

[@plainspokenpod]

Man, that's an exceptional person right there...

[@debgreen8683]

Does the GMC permit women pastors?

[@amandacarroll6156]

Thank you both so much! We should be done with settling and lukewarm faith. If i wanted that, i would still be United Methodist.

[@jlighari]

Excellent

[@RGabeDavis]

Great conversation, I am embarrassed to admit I have known Masons and because of fear of not making nice people angry I held my tongue about the conflicts I perceived. I didn’t love my brother well.

[@deej7928]

This is really interesting. Very good point about divided loyalties.

[@solemntime9121]

the seal of free masonry is hard to break during exorcisms.

[@bamyers08]

How do you know that?

[@bamyers08]

I can say that this is not everyone’s experience in Freemasonry. Some do make it idolatrous. It seems to me that this was his experience. Also, elks, moose, 4H and the like also need to be expressed, not just Freemasons. The oaths of Freemasonry are not binding. The oaths are symbolic not binding.

[@davidmjacobson]

So you just symbolically curse yourself if you break the oaths?

[@bamyers08]

@@davidmjacobsonthere are symbolic penalties for breaking the oaths. Totally symbolic, no different that any other fraternal group.

[@johnbriscoe5932]

As I watch the Methodist church in it's death throes, I wonder why anyone would take the time to swipe at a fraternal organization. Mr Robinson seems to be a nice enough fellow, but my experience on Freemasonry doesn't resemble his at all.

[@bamyers08]

@@johnbriscoe5932 same here. Are there those who go way too deep into it and make it into a religion? Yes. Those people are wrong. I just hate to see people condemn others over something the themselves don’t understand and are hearing from a biased source. To me it’s like being a Republican. Are there republicans who are nasty racist individuals? Heck ya. Does that mean I subscribe to that idea? Heck No! There are nasty Christian’s too. I think Mr. Robinson took things way too seriously/literally when it came to Freemasonry. Also, southern freemasonry and northern freemasonry are 100% different from each other.

[@amandacarroll6156]

​@@johnbriscoe5932Both of these men have left the United Methodist Church. They are part of the Global Methodist Church.

[@bamyers08]

It’s “hostile” toward any religious message. It’s a secular organization. Nothing to do with being on fire or lukewarm. These “teachings” Chance posits are not objectively true.