Friedman Plex vs Marshall SV20H (tech stuff)

[@ChrisLeaton.]

I’ve been enjoying these videos the past couple days. Thank you very much.

[@duese888]

Glad you like them!

[@LPMojoGL]

Recently grabbed a Plex. Also have an SLO, 4104 and few others. Enjoying your videos!!!

[@rikshredder]

I own both. Friedman, wow, it takes the prize for sure but the SV20 is not too far behind. Love the mods you did here for the sv20. I think the mods improve the tone.

[@KelsterVonShredster]

Dollar for dollar I think think the Sv20 is better value but the Friedman def kicks ass too.

[@francesco0185]

I'd like to buy the Friedman Plex (I already have Friedman Twin Sister, SLO30, Marshall Mini Silver Jubilee, Custom Audio OD50 and Magnatone M80) but the SV20 is way way way less expensive. I can afford the Plex but I'm just wondering: why? Could you please give me your opinion to help me? Thanks.

[@rikshredder]

@@francesco0185 Man the PLEX is just on another level tone wise. Far more versatile and better tone. No comparison. If you love that Marshall plexi tone you will love it. And if you're an EVH fan it'll do those early tones spot on.

[@francesco0185]

@@rikshredder Thanks a lot!

[@rikshredder]

@@francesco0185 You're welcome!

[@lordgraga]

The Plex sounds a bit more bitey and “pissed” at both settings (through mid heavy phone speaker). I surprisingly preferred the SV20H on leads. Will listen on monitors/headphones later and see what’s up then.

[@fritzhieke7209]

you listen to it over your phone speakers? Are you insane? This is audio-blasphemous! ;-)

[@lordgraga]

@@fritzhieke7209 not all of us have a toilet built into our studio chairs mate

[@luisalextorres]

great tones from both! weirdly i prefer the sv20 in the first comparison! i wonder if a simple eq adustment can make the plex match the sv20 in the beginning

[@davevanepp5087]

Put a pair of 6CA7s in the SV20, I did in mine and the improvement is dramatic, I know longer want to try modding it because I wouldn't want to change a thing about how it sounds after the swap.

[@mhb450]

stock SV20 sounds great, very close to the plex. I would save my money and get the Marshall. The bright cap experiments told me...stay with the stock SV20

[@stephenkoch4188]

Trying to figure out why you need either when there’s a Soldano sitting in the back 😂😂. Seriously though, great video.!

[@fr201]

Because the Soldano doesn't sound anything like a Plexi.

[@duese888]

I just love amps and was curious. And most of my amps, no matter if bought or build either are just full clean sounding or have much more distortion or are multichannel amps.

[@vin9976]

What are your thoughts on the tone "in the room" when playing them both 6 volume-ish? Is the SV even comparable? I've seen some pro/touring guys running SV's mic'd into stadium stuff...and I wonder if its just that good or if the 50w 1987/Plex etc is just a lot better period.

[@KelsterVonShredster]

Man that is one bitchin amp collection you got there!

[@void_snw]

Hmm.. So somewhere in the SV20 there's more bass / less treble going through. Since the preamps are near identical, could it be the different power amp designs? cathode biased class A vs fixed AB as you said in the beginning? Any differences on the phase inverter maybe? Negative feedback taken from a different transformer tap?

[@void_snw]

I'm very curious to hear about this as I'm modding the SV20 quite extensively but lack proper experience, and one thing it does that's very "vintage" of it is have that softer top end. More like a softclipping overdrive rather than a fuzz, which modern counterparts seem to sound like, to put it into other words I guess. I'd love to find a way to give it that rough top end. I guess that's the bite you mention. Could it maybe be the transformer in the SV20 being a bit weak and acting like a high cut?

[@duese888]

Sure. Power amp makes a huge difference. I just wanted to similar results for my recording purposes. If you crank the Plex it eats the SV20 for breakfast.

[@duese888]

… and PI voltages in the SV20 are lower than in the Plex. Didn‘t look up the NFB in detail yet. May do soon.

[@void_snw]

@@duese888 hmm.. the PI is where a lot of the drive comes from iirc, the voltages being different there is surely one part of the puzzle. Could adjusting the resistors on it get a similar result, maybe?

[@Tanax13]

Easy choice here in Europe to pick the SV20H. Sounds great and WAAY cheaper. €850 vs €3400 is miles apart for two amps sounding so close. Friedman's pricing in Europe vs competition is explaining why their amps are so far down in popularity/purchase statistics. If Friedman could release a 20W that's around €1300 (incl VAT), they'd see much more sales here. It's a small upcharge (€450 more, or around 50% more) to Marshall, but it's also providing benefits for that upcharge. Currently Friedman's 20W is €2000... more than double the price (235% more) of Marshall's studio series amps. I'm not alone in thinking that's not worth it.

[@Spidouz]

Friedman have been milking the whole Marshall amps for decades now… not worth their price tag considering they’re NOT really boutique made by a small team in a garage but instead, built by a production line in an American sweat shop (BAD). I will never support their business, regardless how good their amps could be. They are many others choices… if you want mass produced, then you can get some for way cheaper. If you want real boutique, then you can get some from real boutique brands… not just a distributor that use the boutique name! I love my Two-Rock, I love my Dr. Z, and here I would definitely pick the Marshall… no doubt about it.

[@omarheavy2009]

Totally agree!

[@addictedtogear]

Do you have a complete outline of the mods you did on the Marshall? I’d like to try the same on mine.

[@duese888]

I only took out the 4n7 bright cap, which is located over the treble channel volume pot and puggy backed a 22mF over the 820R cathode R of V2A. Then added a 100pF or 220pF over the treble volume pot where the 4n7 was located.

[@addictedtogear]

@@duese888 thanks for the info.

[@matsandersson8857]

Great comparison. On this video i prefer the Marshall SV20H stock. The Friedman sounds more kind of mushy. Did you play loud or use an attenuator since there is no master volume on the Marshall? I like Thin Lizzy a lot too!

[@duese888]

Thanks. Very loud through an isolation cabinet with a V30.

[@blackfrancis33]

Nice amp collection! What is your favourite plexi-style amp and how do you think the SV20 compares? I got one a couple months back and have only used it at home with an attenuator so far. Can't wait to try with a band and turn it up.

[@duese888]

Thanks. It needs to be turned up, yes. And I think it sounds better without the bright cap in the treble channel.

[@odgeUK]

I still struggle to understand why an FX loop could not have been put on the Plex. I've got a Metro Zero-Loss FX loop in my 1973 Marshall 50w head, which presumably has the same topology as the Plex, and it sound great! No issues with the concern that an FX loop in this topology just pushes the FX into a driven phase inverter.

[@duese888]

Really depends. If you use just one setting on the amp which is clean/mild crunch ( volume below 5) you‘re good. But if you run the volume past 6 you‘ll get your fx distorted too. Of course it depends on your style, but who wants distorted delays or verbs 😊. Better to use a Fryette power station or similar.

[@odgeUK]

⁠@@duese888Thanks! That’s interesting. I’ve not noticed that with mine (I’m probably between 7-8), but then my primary driver for an FX loop is for a solo volume boost (I don’t mic up in the smaller venues I play), to which I add a bit of digital delay (BOSS DD2). Maybe a dual master volume is a better solution than an FX loop, if volume boost is the main aim? Power station is a good idea, but an expensive price of gear for the problem.

[@aloproblues]

Hi, I want to know, how is the Signal chain. Which Amp/Cap Splitter do you use. An how Works the Recording? Micro? IR-Loader or not? Thanks.

[@duese888]

Amps into a simple 4 x switcher into an Isolation Box ( Grossmann) with 2 Mics (57 and SE VR ribbon) into Logic. Speaker is an old V30.

[@aloproblues]

@@duese888 Thanks for the answer, and which 4xSwitcher do you use. I have the same Grossman Isolation Box

[@duese888]

@@aloproblues www.thomann.de/de/tube_amp_manufactur_amp_switch_4_2_v2.htm

[@duese888]

Had others before like Palmer, Radial, Ampete… this for me has the best buffer. Not footswitchable though

[@aloproblues]

@@duese888 Is it possible to use 1 pedalboard with several amps without replugging?

[@pputra914]

Nice tones! What cabinet/IR were used?

[@duese888]

Thanks. An isolation cab with a V30 and two mics (SN57, SE ribbon).

[@6120orange]

Well let's go! This is way more important than some football match or delirious old men debating

[@theleftfoot]

Merci olaf! 🎉

[@duese888]

De rien 😁

[@stephenkoch4188]

Soldano sitting in the back ground - why did you even need to buy the Friedman or the Marshall? 😂 (I’m a fan of all three)

[@jima1325]

What’s so special about the PPIMV on the Friedman? He says it’s different than others. Have you analyzed the circuit?

[@duese888]

The taper of the pot is a bit different. You can find some info in the description and comments to my other tech Plex vid

[@robertlevasseur8896]

I dunno man that's pretty close, especially if the tubes aren't identical. If the Friedman master volume actually works well, that adds a lot of value. Otherwise I'd have to say the Marshall is too close to ignore the cost difference.

[@DevRSVR]

Lizzy! Nice one.

[@omarheavy2009]

Both sound great but unfortunately the Friedman amps are a bit overpriced in Europe! I have these Marshalls in my collection (Jcm800 20w stealth, Silver Jubilee 20w special edition & Jvm 1w custom tattoo) I would like to add SV20 & DSL20.. i would love to add a Friedman to my collection but i do not want to spend that much of money on these small amps! Hopefully they make them more affordable!!

[@frankchaina2498]

What song is the opening riff from 🤔

[@duese888]

Thin Lizzy Jailbreak

[@rocker8692]

I dont hear $2000 difference

[@Squall6575]

You hear it in person. While the sv20 has all the plexi tone, it just doesnt have the low end thump of a plexi

[@fr201]

I have both and the Plex is a lot tighter. Did you figure out why?

[@duese888]

I‘d say due to the power amp design and voltages. Much higher in the Plex.

[@vin9976]

Is the SV just kind of lame compared to the Plex once you have them in the room and both cranked to 6-ish?

[@duese888]

@@vin9976 SV beyond 6 just compresses more and sounds mushy. However, thats already very loud. At 5 its perfect. I‘m glad thst I am using an isolation cab at home.

[@vin9976]

@@duese888 Gotcha...so the SV holds up to the Plex until 6+? Very cool. I've got an SV20h into a 1965a Cab. I just use a JohnH attenuator that a guy on the MarshallForums built for me. It definitely helps out!

[@soapboxearth2]

Great compaison . The marshall sounds alright. If you could get one used for a good price and mod it, then great. But the plex build quality is far, far superior, and I'd rather give Dave my money! That's a great sounding amp, and it will last much longer.

[@duese888]

Agreed. Was just trying to show some mods for the SV20 into the direction of a booteek amp.

[@soapboxearth2]

@duese888 they are definitely worth while mods !

[@alexjh3456]

So Marshall SV20 with 200pF = Friedman Plex for small money?

[@duese888]

… and a 22mF over the 820R of V2A - at one setting - somehow.

[@FastRedPonyCar]

Plex vs origin 50?

[@duese888]

Sorry, do not own one.

[@AndyK.23]

Awesome comparison! They are pretty close - except the Marshall is built like a toy, with plastic pots and ribbon cables. The Plex is a real amp.

[@MadMax_1984]

troll comment of the day- why play a PRS in this video when there are 2 perfectly good Gibsons (1 custom?) in the background? what do you think is the best value amp?

[@LLVG83]

Because the DGT is epic, also much easier to play vs most LPs. I call it a stunt guitar.

[@duese888]

The pickups in the DGTs I own are less hot than in my three Gibsons, that‘s why I‘ve used it. But I have two other Plex vids with my LPs.

[@wolfgangfranken2041]

Marshall.

[@myuncle2]

well, heck, that guitar simply sucks, it has zero character, no matter which amp you use.

[@TomAndrewOstberg]

Hmm… the tone stack on the SV20H is different from the Plex, is it not? The Plex being 470pF treble cap, 33k slope?

[@duese888]

TS are identical, however the bright channels coupling cap SV20H is a 3n3 instead of a 2n2 you would expect, thus they used a 4n7 bright cap ….

[@TomAndrewOstberg]

@@duese888 very interesting. Thanks for confirming!