Frodan Reads Through Set 11 Inkborn Fables Dev Learnings

Reading and Giving Thoughts on the Inkborn Fables Dev Learnings.
Full Dev Article:
teamfighttactics.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-tft-inkborn-fables-learnings/
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[@quinicallyill]

I’m one of those players that tries to fit exalted into every game. Not sure exactly what makes the trait so appealing to me, i guess it just feels like a fun challenge and i also love anything that gives me extra XP

[@TheCagedK]

Do u try for 5 exalted and make some obscure comp or 3 exalted and just play sm standard with a few changes?

[@danielanjos7947]

​@@TheCagedK that's a good question.

[@mushmak]

Wonder If encounters weren't hidden, if It'd probably fix some of the pain points

[@TheCagedK]

I think it just causes a new set of problems while solving some old ones.

[@kju-uu8me]

Encounters are great in concept because they warp the game in a certain way and you have to adapt to that (pure skill expression). They were not so great when they favor some players much more than others when they are already committed to a line an pivoting would still put them at a disadvantage.

[@AIpuchino]

yeah encounters like liss are great, yorick... not so much

[@moonknight5743]

They're great if they are just limited to happening at the beginning cause it sucks when the game changes completely mid game

[@MikeyDLuffy]

@@moonknight5743 so, portals?

[@TheCagedK]

@@MikeyDLuffyi think he means like stage 2 not like stage 4, there’s absolutely no worse feeling than rolling it down on 4-2 and then 4-5 encounter is 3gold xp khazix. GGs

[@_mocart_]

Emily nailed it with "any strong feelings", I've always loved discussing both good and bad parts of TFT but this set I just didn't wanna talk about it at all. To be honest, you've kinda saved it with your podcast for me.

[@camerongill1905]

Found the set really enjoyable. First full set back since the set with dragons in (came back last month of last set) and managed to hit masters from mobile. These last few patches feel as close to balanced as you'll realistically get. Seen so many different comps top 4 feels like its a spot recognition and play the line and potential variations correctly

[@sarahbautista7893]

same!!! also came back for the first time since dragons (or at least, that's the last set i remember) and it was fun! have never gotten above gold before and i hit diamond on mobile enjoyably and playing multiple different comps! so many options

[@camerongill1905]

@@sarahbautista7893 congratulations! Felt like you could play literally anything this set even when things were weaker uncontested comps have a chance to cap out higher easier if the units aren't wanted so I didn't mind the earlier imbalance. Encounters have genuinely saved my game as well as doomed some but that's just the nature of the set.

[@dachosens1]

@@camerongill1905 at least toward the end of the set they have been pretty good about balance, both this set and last set

[@Capper-yc7fw]

Was the fix for ghostly just making Aatrox reroll viable? Or at least good enough to item hold and enable you to get you to Kayne/Morgan to really play the vertical? Heavenly's issue was just not having a 4 cost and having WuKong feel like a trait bot. If Xayah/Rakan was the heavenly unit instead, I feel like that would have felt much better.

[@psychoedge]

I found encounters fun for majority of the set. My favorites were Malphite, Teemo, Gnar, Tahm Kench. Some were anti-fun if they heavily favored and disfavored some comps (or the lack of a comp with Rakan encounter). Some where a bit lackluster like Sett or Sivir. Some felt a bit too interrupting like Yorick, Lilia, Zoe and Syndra (& Kayn) and some were just so rare it was a bit sad (like Kayn encounter which appeared only once in my 250 games of ranked/double up this set, wouldn't have minded it like three times in total tbh), but generally it was fun and exciting and something to play around. 25:05 absolutely agree. Irelia now is on par with Xerath from set 3.5 which was my favorite until now. 35:33 I don't think the set (design) was mediocre. I feel like the way Emily Wang and many other pro players play is just bound to make you burnt out of TFT. They're focusing more and more on deltas of items/augments and minmaxing everything to oblivion, resulting in the meta and balance problems being more apparent than for average players. And this set had massive balance issues in the start, from Everything Must Go augment, to Ashe and Lee being almost unplayable at the start to being dominating in the second half of the set (and vice versa with Yone, Lissandra and Kai'Sa), the hero augments wildly fluctating between unplayable and a 3.7 avg place to flat out overpowered encounters like 2* 4 cost carousels. The Bard 3* reroll being shipped overpowered from PBE to the first release was the first sign of the massive imbalance we were seeing throughout the set which soured many people's experience. But balance aside I personally liked this set more than sets 10, 8, 7, 5 and 2 (with 1 getting a nostalgia bonus). Like you said, ifyou look at set 10, which was a lot more balanced, it also felt extremely dull in the second half because every comp was solved after a few weeks and everyone went for heartsteel into fast 8 to hit one of the viable 4 cost chosen first, in turn screwing over everyone else that was locked into the comp due to low bag sizes (which was especially apparent in double up, I had multiple lobbies with up to 6 people starting with Heartsteel to rush level 8). The introduced variety (and imbalance) of set 11 allowed for so many different comps to be viable over the span of the set that set 10 feels ridiculously bland in comparison.

[@christiansouthwick4712]

I'm not gonna lie, you're tripping if you think set 10 is bland compared to set 11. There isn't a single trait that is more fun and interesting than any set 10 traits. There is nothing engaging for a casual player. Fortune blows, verticals blow, encounters are lame, and the units (excluding Irelia) are boring. I hit Diamond in set 10 because it was fun and engaging. Everything about that set had me coming back. I think I hit like gold 1 in set 11 and dropped it because I was falling asleep playing. Everything is just so boring and mid. There's no cool gimmick (encounters do not count) and every game feels the same and boring. The most fun I had was with choncc but even then I got like 4 or 5 fun games before I got bored. Even the anniversary game mode is boring because these traits aren't fun. Everything is a stat bonus without a cool effect unless you high roll into something. Emily said it best imo, this was just a bland set that doesn't really illicit any emotions outside of boredom for me. Like yeah it was good in some ways, but it was also just so bland that I couldn't be bothered to play.

[@dachosens1]

@@christiansouthwick4712 yeah set 10 was much more fun and interesting, the only real issue with set 10 was the winter break personal preference i dont like headliners but only because i like the hero augment design space more than headliners

[@facunavarro3307]

something sweet and stay frosty? foodfight tactics soon

[@Frodan2]

POG

[@Aurelioris]

I think the main prob with encounters is when you have formed a gameplan with a game state (items, shops, augment on 2-1 and 3-2), and an encounter just throws a wrench in your plans. A classic example is if you get orrnn encounter either on carousel or as an anvil and you miss completely, with no usable artifact items. Same reason why support dummy (prism and gold) became so much worse this Set, you can miss so much in the form of items that it's not worth it. It used to be really good before

[@Capper-yc7fw]

I would like to see some of the encounters come back as portals. As a more casual player, I really enjoyed the altered game state that the Kayne encounter or the one that's starts with 7 unit slots gave. Also a portal where everyone gets a golden remover would be an insta pick for me every time

[@c-boagames261]

I’ve gotten that Yorick with 7 slots a total of 0 times. Which is really upsetting because it seems like a lot of fun

[@brycemiller831]

I enjoyed this set but didn’t go too crazy, was a big fan of fated as a synergy though, played that SO much, fated variations were probably my favorite comp. I wish the flexibility of the trait was a little better as some combos seemed obvious at certain points of the game pretty often. That said, the idea is very cool, even if was kinda too strong most of the set.

[@MikeyDLuffy]

My guess for the magic user that uses attack speed will be a backline Gwen Carry

[@toojokes8349]

I understand that the end of the video is a hard place to criticize but Frodan mentions fine vintage and artifacts (which could appear in any future set) as stand outs for this set instead of any units or comps like bard or fated. Does not sound like many memorable things unique to inkborn.

[@psychoedge]

I think due to so much variety going on it's hard to pinpoint a favorite carry/mechanic/augment. Frodan wasn't even remembering augments that were removed in the middle of the set because of this. I wouldn't blame it on the set itself. I personally loved hitting my first 10 fated, my first 4* Kayle, the infinitely scaling Kench and Bard or a 9 Umbral Irelia destroying everything she touched. I also was happy getting a 5 exalted comp to work once.

[@Frodan2]

That's fair. I should have mentioned things like Irelia and Hwei being really cool too. But I do think there are more memorable things about this set than people tend to give it credit for

[@mugnoguil983]

I thing encounters are good, but i hate when i get an augment and the encounters its like the opposite direction because i feel stuck, and the worst is the golden remover augment and 2 pvp after all the lobby have one XD.

[@otigrudo]

I think if the yasuo with gargoyle point is to be believed (trying to not go far away from the champ fantasy), some hero augments break that rule in a bad way, shen being ranged to me is the big one here. Not the biggest fan of hero augments myself but I'm not totally opposed to them, the garen one is in fantasy for example so picking the right spells to be hero augments in the right champs can be the way (nerf the shit of the current ones tho)

[@mrdevonscook]

Ditto on the love for Heartsteel. Best econ trait ever and in the discussion for best overall trait ever.

[@kennethjames6114]

I just hit emerald this set after being hard stuck plat 2 for like 2 months 😍 so happy

[@ukno918]

The amount of times pro players mention how they played horribly but placed well because they got bailed out this set... you've got high elo players feeling like the skill/reward system is out of sync, and casual players who have no idea how skilled they are tricked into thinking decisions matter because confounding between rng and placement vs. skill and placement.

[@aaronlippman3338]

My favorite streamers are appies and ramkev who both despise 5 cost metas (assuming reroll in bot viable)

[@c-boagames261]

I really disagree with Bryce on most of what he said. 😂 A hero augment being unbalanced at one point is not a knock on hero augments. Regular augments and regular champs are unbalanced at points as well. That is just going to happen in a game like TFT. Encounters were a great idea in theory, and some were great in execution. (Malphite, Ahri kiss, Khazix next augment early, Before game Bard, Tahm, Tristana, Yorick, and even Kayn were all fun imo) Yes there were some encounters that were frustrating, but I think they were an overall positive. I will say I do worry about how much balancing will need to be done in the future in the case that one of these augments is op on a champ, but also, who cares. New stuff is fun, and it is balanced now, and knowing the TFT devs, they will (probably) balance it within a patch if something is overtuned. Anyway, after that rant, I just think some people are complaining to complain. The TFT devs are very forthcoming with their thoughts, and although they aren’t perfect, they do a good job.

[@freeloguy3387]

Yes. Encounters WERE fun. I made a group of friends in one of my elective classes, and I introduced them to TFT. Their average rank ended around Gold 2 this season. I remember we all had run finding random encounters and trying to play around them. HOWEVER Once i started figuring out how to play a little more seriously, I started noticing how encounters were sometimes just random unwanted variance. MY FRIENDS STILL ENJOYED IT. But I noticed how random and annoying it could be to face a Lillia comp, who hit 2 zephyrs on stage 5, off of an encounter, and there's NO COUNTERPLAY XDDDDDD. Idk maybe make encounters but for norms/chonc treasure /hyperroll only

[@Frodan2]

Yeah I think encounters got old and shouldn't have been a full set mechanic. They showed up too often and were too impactful

[@kylechmielewski9972]

I actually really liked encounters. Obviously some were bad or needed to be limited to certain points in the game (I'm looking at you Kha'zik) but they really did add depth to a good amount of games. It is a bad mechanic for pro play but I think it added enough to justify and downside.

[@everything-has-a-handle-now]

As a semi casual gold/plat player this set was so much more enjoyable than last set

[@Temptyyy]

7:45 oh hey, janna + lux is an example of good here.

[@sagittariusa2145]

I love Kayn encounter, but only as a 1/100 game.

[@psychoedge]

I had it only once in 250 games. Wouldn't have minded that being more frequent over having Bard/Lilia starts 4 times in a row.

[@TheCagedK]

I played for like 9 hours a few days ago and ripped it 3 games outta like 12, felt awful

[@ZzShy]

I've gotten Kayn at least 7 times and there's no way I've played over 250 games this set, guess I'm just lucky

[@TheCagedK]

@@ZzShy it’s infinitely more common than odd level zoe for example

[@dachosens1]

kayn is cool but i think it could be improved, like kayn assasinates the lowest hp player every round starting stage 5, but honestly could just work as a portal

[@dachosens1]

most of the encounters are fine, but not noteworthy, its just a few encounters that are annoying (ornn artifact on carosel, anvil is fine, 6 radiant or 6 ornn items, easier rerolls or easier xp) portal replacing encounters some are fine but would just work better as normal portals (darius, kayn although id like it slightly reworked) and some are ehh i do wish there were more variability in portals aside from just "more stuff" and increasing the spectrum (have each component gained drop another component) portals could also be categorized into different types, with like "more stuff" "augment" and "wildcard" to control primary stars in vertical traits that take power away from other units can also be helped by hero augments filling in the power gap for the units whose power was taken away to make the carry viable i like the concept of hero augments but i wish it was more interesting aside from wow a tanky deal damage frontline big unit(shen isnt this but every other units is) also two people having hero augment is really the same thing as being hard contested but forced into a comp by picking fated spat and having someone else picking fated spat, something of the like also i think that a lot of artifacts are quite flexible set 10 trait and unit design give me that but with hero augments, current augments and slightly adjusted traits i remember cyber bulk being bis artifact xdd Pog cyberbulk what a highroll i guess thats memorable in the wrong direction

[@dachosens1]

i have to say personally a lot of the 5 costs visually look less interesting in fights compared to set 10 sett jumps and evaporates, and even if he lands he dies after anyways and any comp he is played in the jump doesnt matter, hes just a stun, same thing with udyr but he lives longer, maybe a chance to get the carry if you get match making rng xayah ults into nothing and you dont see anything of what she does irelia is interesting but her ability cast looks cooler than her autos and her autos are the main focus, if they flied faster but did less damage maybe it would be cooler we dont talk about lissandra, but also maybe getting rid of stun and keeping displacement instead of other way around would be more interesting azir cast time is so long, dummy part most of time doesnt feel like it does anything, even if relatively big damage numbers - also feels unintuitive that guinsos is bad on him hwei ults a big clump and tickles everyone, and you dont see the heal either rakan trait bot wukong trait bot this is compared to set 10 qiyana, stun displacement item print or big true damage wowza, you see her smack her circle down on the tank sending them back kayn wasnt so memorable personally, design was still interesting with ability but not sure yorick big ghouls illaoi tentacles did a lot, pogged if could use them to bait akali, etc, even if unit herself was not so memorable jhin was cool used bench space lucian was unfortunately bugged but still really cool with scaling with attackspd ability go brrrrrr sona cool team buffer, you can see especially attackspd team attacking faster, or ult heal/shield on team, or ap damage units pop ziggs also cool scaling ability and even then his bombs boom woo this says nothing about the balance, the balance i believe is in a good position and i applaud riot for being on top of it this set and last set its just about how interesting units visually look and if you can see what value they give to your team

[@dachosens1]

I was personally cooking a much more interesting alternative for azir, where you all in on the dummy spawning portion and every auto heals either a random dummy or lowest dummy, on ult spawn a dummy/heal all dummys, healing can scale off of both max hp and ap, passive everytime a dummy is healed they do some % of healed as magic damage to nearest enemy, overhealing deals more % mana cost and power can also both be scaled accordingly, its just that it feels like there was more potential in that design space that wasnt tapped into

[@dachosens1]

yappathon

[@dachosens1]

also another interesting idea was 3 cost hero augments at 3-2 augment only findable time, throws a wrench in plan but people can be in a pivotable spot, would make things like from set 10 morde carry or the fake stacking sett real although maybe it would be based on having already fielded the unit and cant be too strong

[@dachosens1]

another offender i though about was zyra, shes strong and in a good place but wouldnt it be much more interesting if they made her cast more, lower her mana cost, and lower her damage, real pvz plants across the place maybe add atkspd scaling or plants on board scaling

[@jyu3646]

balancewise the set was really good but somehow all the units and traits felt really unsatisfying to play

[@vicious3526]

Need to add in legend of runterra original characters like cythria and commander ladros

[@aximus11]

Was going to mention something about Frodan being riots tft pony boy and that’s the last thing he says in the video hahah, the last 2ish patches of the set were the only decent ones which is pretty sad. What bryce was saying is completely true, why do you need to have a hero augment to make a reroll comp strong. And to say oh well for artifacts maybe you just need to get good when you literally have 4 choices for 33 artifacts which over half aren’t good at all is just embarrassing. Saying oh well just learn how to play around them is a really weak answer.Obviously the reroll meta was op in the beginning but that was a balance issue then as well. It took way too long and too many problems for this set to be as positive as you and riot perceive. But then again it’s your perception but you should atleast state that

[@BC-ie2bj]

Wow tft players really love to complain

[@blackjesus9700]

@@BC-ie2bjya it’s pretty crazy most games are ass now a days nothing but unfinished cash grabs but the tft devs care and listen to its community trying to give us a great product which I would say they do if you’re losing games that’s on you

[@psychoedge]

Blud the whole friggin video is him sharing his perception when reacting to the statements, there's no need to state that additionally if he doesn't agree. Just because you think it was a net negative doesn't mean he has to put a disclaimer like "yeah well uuhh akshually game state was a net negative according to some voices which is objectively true when you ask some youtube comments so ignore my opinion but I personally, in my opinion that is coming from my feelings, think that my personal conclusion is that the set isn't that bad - totally objective opinions from frustrated players aside". You could literally name me any set and I could find enough arguments based on balance or odd mechanics to twist it so it was a negative.

[@aaronlippman3338]

I think, most people that watch streams are already only borderline casual. The true casuals probably just play the game.

[@bryce37521]

Just stop trying with fortune traits for the love of God every set needs yordles this set would have been 10x better with yordles over fortune and a real trait over exalted

[@Alex9ten]

not much memorable cuz riot nerfs things into uselessness asap before u even get a chance to play it. everything is so mediocre always

[@BC-ie2bj]

Stop playing the game if you hate it so much 🤷‍♀️

[@Alex9ten]

@@BC-ie2bj when did i say i hated it LMAO