From Faulty to Fixed? My Framework 16 RMA Story

[@ElevatedSystems]

About a week has gone by between filming and posting this video. In that time batch 4&5 laptops have been delivered. Just a quick glance at Reddit indicates that the input spacer problem has not been fixed. If you receive a unit with a bad input deck I highly encourage you to contact support and get it fixed first the reasons I covered in the video.

[@ianthomas1955]

So i just want to say my Framework does not lose charge while gaming could you measuer how much power the Laptop takes?

[@ElevatedSystems]

@@ianthomas1955 what are the specs, power mode, and what games are you playing?

[@lr7974]

This was a great take and thank you for pointing out about the community and apologists. I myself was attacked for these very things when i tried to call out the issues i wanted framework to do better at as a company.

[@bassenji5565]

Hopefully they'll listen and fix 🤞

[@Winnetou17]

@@ElevatedSystems That drain does look weird though. Can't tell if it's genuine, or if the GPU + CPU + everything else are taking up too much, or if simply the charger doesn't actually supply 180W. I'm thinking, 100W for the GPU, 50W for the CPU, there's 30W left for the scren and everything else, that should totally work, and also supply more than decent performance for both CPU and GPU. In this case, it should maintain the battery level. The fact that it drains and SO FAST... that smells fishy. I really hope it's something solvable without a RMA. Also, in the unfortunate case that it DOES use more than 180W so casually (probably 240W ?) that should also be easily compromisable by making a power plan (don't know how in Linux) to simply use less, kind of like I exeplified above. This way, you'll get a bit less than max performance (but it should be pretty negligible at these power levels), but at least you'll have no trouble when plugged in. Settings in BIOS might help here too.

[@samsowden]

A company that never screws up may or may not be a great company. Because you don't know how good a company is until they do screw up, and respond to the screw up.

[@Winnetou17]

I don't agree. If you actually know it never screws up (and not simply screwing up, but nobody finding out about it) is, in my book, a good company. No RMA needed is the best customer experience. But this is more theoretical than practical, since the economics of how things are built and checked, kind of don't allow for something like this to exist, long term, and being profitable.

[@rre9121]

That's a great sentiment until you realize that they could have hired a product engineer and gone through proper testing before releasing the product. The charger is fundamentally flawed, it doesn't provide enough power to run the laptop.

[@Braiam]

@@rre9121Check the latest video on the topic... trying to squeeze the last 7 FPS on an already +90 FPS scenario, hits the point of diminishing returns.

[@mllarson]

The best sign of a company's success is their customer support and service. Who cares if a product is the best thing ever if a company treats you like a bad guy for bringing up real issues.

[@nuvotion-live]

Apple

[@noisycarlos]

In my experience, Framework support has been top-notch. And they have shipped really fast! I hope they iron the kinks in QC, what they're trying to do with the 16 is really hard! I'm really happy with my decision of going with a custom-body with FW13 instead of waiting for the 16 though.

[@SimonCarpentier]

FW16 batch 1 owner here. I use the "Eco" mode in the AMD Software and I'm still able to play Helldivers 2 at high settings without the battery dipping.

[@ElevatedSystems]

I’m testing multiple settings this week including HYPR-Eco

[@DuncDog]

For what it's worth, MSI was getting away with battery drain while while on AC power for years with some of their Titan units. Had a buddy with a 680M back in the day and that thing would burn 6-10% an hour give or take even with a colossal brick. I think they called it battery overdrive or something stupid. Moral of that story, it's not new here, but it does suck. At least in their defense, once 240 watt bricks become available, the issue goes away nearly entirely. The glass half full view however is that if it was that easy to make 240 watt bricks, ANY of them would exist. Hell if they were that easy Framework wouldn't have been the first one to launch a 180 brick either. Makes you wonder why Delta, Anker, UGreen, or any of the other big guys haven't launch anything higher than 140W yet? PD 3.1 has been around since 2021, 3 years later 140 is the highest we had until Frameworks?

[@ghostsword6554]

I hope to be able to afford one down the line, I really like their mission. Good on ya for standing your ground on the RMA issue, getting this sorted out now is likely better for everyone involved.

[@SUPER7X]

The battery draining while it's plugged is insane no matter the load required to cause it. Wow.

[@EnterpriseKnight]

I love how you passionate you are about the project, but at the same time share actual criticism that is useful to all.

[@mitchib1440]

Awesome work bringing this up. Still waiting on my batch 10 unit and was a little concerned that this would be a problem I would face as well. Really hoping Framework takes this to heart and makes sure everything is polished for their customers. Us pre-orders are essentially voluntary beta testers so I think it is important to flag these issues down.

[@noahallen5046]

I've had a great experience with my Batch 3 machine. I'm sorry all this happened with yours, man.

[@pyroslev]

15 Days for an RMA from a smaller company isn't bad at all. I imagine they have a WFH team overall with their Tier 2(?) level being in their offices. As for the laptop, it's still great but they're perhaps hitting some sort of Sophmore slump. Even in a slump, I'm still excited for their coming products. I love my AMD 13 machine and it's amazing.

[@Neopumper666]

I think its great, I went through the same process with Samsung for the s24 ultra and it took almost a month to get my rma unit

[@3DKreateFPV]

Cj, I just got my batch 4 unit in this week. Funninly enough it says my unit was manufactured in February of 2024. I have no dgpu and have had battery drain occationally using the integrated graphics and using a 100w power adapter. It may be something you want to look into. As for the spacers, my touchpad was bowed down in the center. I checked by flipping it over and setting it down on a granite countertop, gently working the bend out, I went from ~2mm of edge between the touchpad and side spacers, to less then .5mm

[@JakeSmith-b4q]

Thank you for all the detail about the email drama

[@Tommy-qe6fh]

While not finished, I just had the best customer experience with surprisingly, Meta With my Quest 3 with a bad display. It was only about 12 minutes on live chat before I got a return label

[@lr7974]

fw13 owner had 11th gen intel upgraded to ryzen i was in batch 1 for fw16 and with everything that was happening i decided to cancel my delayed order (rgb was in my order) and i'm glad i did. While i really like everything about this laptop there is a lot to be desired for fit and finish and all kinds of issues customers are experiencing. I really hope they can fix all this and maybe one day i will order fw16 again but for now i'm holding out.

[@stampederealty]

Still have them on a short list to replace my current laptop next year, hopefully by the time I need it Framework will have it all figured out

[@schwingedeshaehers]

the question is, framework 13 or 16?

[@stampederealty]

@@schwingedeshaehers 16, though with an external monitor I could get away with the 13, I like having the bigger display so 16 might be the one

[@schwingedeshaehers]

@@stampederealty okay with 16 there is also the problem with transport xD

[@Tommy-T448]

I personally returned the very first batch of the 13 inches laptop due to minor light bleed and really subpar battery life. The customer support asked what's wrong and agreed to fully refund me on the second email. Oops, forgot to include the charger, no problem, sent the charger, got full refund. After 2 years, I'm contemplating giving it another chance since every other laptop I've tried is worse in some ways for similar price. I believe they've ironed out all the minor issues for the 13 inches model, wait a bit more if you like the bigger one.

[@dosomething6975]

Honestly this talked me out of buying the framework, thanks for the video. Its a really neat laptop but I'm not looking to buy a beta for 2500$

[@soltysss]

power issue is understandable as it will support 240W charging dows the line. Won't effect me though as I'm not buying it with GPU, don't need one. Still I thing this is one of the best choices for Linux laptop.

[@raute2687]

fair, but you could also buy a more powerful usb-c dock to keep it charged

[@usr01]

The framework 13 exists and is a proven product with none of the issues of the 16 in.

[@soltysss]

@usr01 13 inch version is too small for real work. Tried to work on MacBook air 13 and it's was uncomfortable

[@omegamezle]

I received one in Batch 1 and I eventually decided to return it. Wasn't worth the cost imo, being able to experience it was nice though... Just not the kind of thing I wanted to keep due to various issues which kept creeping up. I'd probably recommend just getting a fw13 and spending the extra money on a decent external GPU instead.

[@Danny.._]

I got my framework 16 laptop in early February. I've been experiencing several issues and have over 50 emails back and forth with support. I've taken it apart and put it back together at least 30 times now and still have issues.

[@KyleVeatch]

That power issue seems like a pain. Sounds like they should have included a barrel charger but left USB C charging for anything else.

[@ukraineball953]

EU regulations.

[@jhpratt]

​@@ukraineball953Not only is that not in effect for laptops yet, but it will only apply to laptops with charging speeds of up to 100W.

[@honza572]

7:00 - I like the idea of parts being individually matched by people - it gives the pc some personality

[@louishurr393]

I have just finished dealing with framework customer service on an issue. Their customer service seems to be buckling under pressure. It used to be phenomenal, but now it’s noticeably unreliable. I still was getting responses but they were more “canned” and not actually solving any problems, just apologizing for how busy their “partners” are with other issues. It took me about 2 months to get a refund issued when everything on my end was completed immediately and their website said all refunds should not take more than 1 month to be issued. Too bad, because their great customer service used to be the reason people said they would deal with the growing pains of a new company. But these days that doesn’t seem to still be the case.

[@Louis_Varga]

I recently received my batch 4 Framework 16. I ordered my storage separately and I'm still waiting for it to be delivered, so I'm currently unable to test battery performance. As for the fit of the components: I can see a very small gap between the keyboard and number pad. The track pad isn't fully inline with the two spacers at the bottom. The track pad sticks out ever so slightly. The track pad pops up at the top corners as you showed yours did in the video. 5:50 As for the battery issue that you are experiencing while gaming, maybe Framework could create a barrel port module for higher wattage charging.

[@jackthatmonkey8994]

Their I/O modules are connected with USB-C to the motherboard. Adding an effective barrel charger would mean a comprehensive redesign

[@JohnDoe-rr8uf]

Had the same experience with Lenovo. Was incredibly frustrating to say the least, having to deal with customer support with this faulty machine. Now it's been in "repair" in Poland for the last two weeks.

[@richardahlquist5839]

So glad I saw your first video and cancelled my batch 3 order. I like what they are trying to do, but for me the issues you had, especially the mixmatched tones of the panels the user stares at with no real alternative were just too much. With 30 years in IT I love the idea of repair and upgrade, but they should have done better to limit some of these issues. It doesnt help that so many people behave as apologists against the bad things because they like the good things. So thanks again for your honesty.

[@Winnetou17]

Yeah, having apologist ignoring or "washing" away actual issues is not good. But, I wrote in another article, Framework is still rather new and small, people should've expected this to be a bit of a beta. At least Framework 13 is out of that. For Framework 16 I think it will truly be much issue/compromise - less on the next iteration, which might be next year, or in 2 years (which is my guess) or so.

[@JerziTBoss]

True. I don't like apologists. The Laptop is priced at premium so the least they can do is to make sure the tolerances are as tight as possible and that pieces are manufactured in same shade of color. The issues with brand new breed of products from young company are understandable but that doesn't mean they should be excused. The ability to repair and upgrade the laptops doesn't excuse below par experience out of the box.

[@dnslong]

Thank you for your video. I was seriously considering a Framework 16, but after seeing all the problems you experienced, I think I'm going to pass.

[@bryans8656]

I'm looking forward to the next chapter in your journey with this laptop.

[@RobertF]

I recently had to use Framework support as well. Sadly my issue wasn't resolved & my laptop is over a year old so I believe it's out of the RMA window. It's usable just not fully usb-c monitor compatible now.. Didn't have a monitor that supported it till a month ago. Great back & forth but no resolve..

[@ravine9083]

I noticed there are a lot of people who won't tell you what game they are running. I'll get my batch 7 laptop next week. I'm willing to conduct tests and report to you on my experience. I ordered the expansion bay shell and graphics module. Maybe we can see what games on my library can help test our units. What do you think?

[@RollerCoasterLineProductions]

Hopefully they can weather the storms and the whole idea of building/servicing your own laptop becomes a thing, LONG overdue IMO

[@aure_eti]

It's great to see good customer support, now we can hope it's not because you are making videos that they were soo good at it.

[@2.Plus.2.Equals.5]

Agree on the power. If you're using something on outlet power, there's no reason for it to be draining like that. Power is usually one of the most pita parts of electrical design.

[@enzochoi923]

a question about charging - is it possible to add something like a 65w block (that one would carry for their phone & other devices) to make up the power difference? or does the motherboard not support charging from 2 inputs?

[@ElevatedSystems]

It doesn’t support charging from 2 inputs. It will just default to the highest power charger.

[@enzochoi923]

@@ElevatedSystemsunfortunate. though I wouldn't expect them to have included such things, it would be a neat and convenient-ish band-aid

[@zstewart93]

The charging issue is completely unacceptable. I love my FW13 but glad I cancelled on this one right before they shipped and took my 2500 bucks. They need a rev 2 ASAP.

[@KellyWu04]

I've went through 56 emails with Framework and they never managed to fix the issue with my 1240P FW13 then I ran out of warranty and gave up.

[@DerekGreen15]

Nice Star Trek reference. Data was totally screwing Worf on the poker game.

[@MichaelBogdan]

I'm batch 12 for the 16. I have a couple FW13s for work which have worked well. Been feeling lately that the 16 is a lot of money for the specs. I want framework to succeed, but i guess these problems make me think about cancelling.

[@charliehsiao4413]

I totally agree your opinion. I ask customer service about 7840U dedicated VRAM allocation and USB-C monitor compatibility problem with lot's of mails, and find the solution by myself finally. Considering the 7840U machine's price, I can buy business laptops like ThinkPad or EliteBook with 3y warranty. I cannot say it's a good experience. I think Framework Laptop is a special product, but there are many things need to do. PS: Considering Framework company's scale, I don't expect USB-C Monitor compatibility issue can solve quickly (ex in 30 days), especially not every USB-C monitor manufacturer update firmware. If I buy a cheap USB-C LCD monitor and manufacturer never release nee firmware for public download, maybe this problem cannot solve before my next new laptop. But I wish Framework say they will do some positive responses (ex: a tested list like RAM list), not negative (like Dell laptop and monitor work because there are specific drivers...).

[@kelownatechkid]

Excised, not exercised I assume haha? Great video!

[@ElevatedSystems]

exorcised

[@technologicalelite8076]

​@@ElevatedSystemsExtortioncised

[@pvalpha]

I recieved my batch 4 and my experience has been awesome so far. I've been using nobara linux 39 and have done some gaming testing... I didn't notice the power drain on the 180w? I'll run a couple tests. Edit: There is no significant drain in balanced mode. I ran SotTR's benchmark basically on loop for 15 minutes with no battery Wh drop on the instrumentation. In Performance mode, the battery does drop - drawing about 9w-30w from the battery. Probably would drain the battery in about 10 hours of gaming if the percent draw I was seeing was consistent. I limit my battery charge to 85% so mine would probably be done in about 7-8 hours. There are no 240w type-c adapters available AFAIK - and not a whole lot of rush to put them out.

[@giomjava]

@6:07 did you intentionally get spaces of a different color than the trackpad panel?

[@ElevatedSystems]

Nope, but that seems to be another common problem with the FW16.

[@giomjava]

@@ElevatedSystems oh man.. thanks for sharing your experience!! My FW13 has arrived with a crooked fingerprint sensor and unevenly seated trackpad... they made me take gajillion photos to see if this is within acceptable tolerance.

[@StrategyYouDidntKnow]

This has many important sections for framework to consider if it wants to set the standing for robust IO. I think framework should have a charge case by now.

[@joshskulls]

As cool as the framework is. Im definitely waiting a few generations before buying one

[@atomictransfusion]

did you get to destroy the faulty laptop for the thumbnail or are your photoshop skills very good

[@ElevatedSystems]

lol that’s a result of modular components and a little PS generative fill. I returned the original to FW in exactly the same condition I received it.

[@gwenmorse8059]

@@ElevatedSystemsDid you keep the better fitting touchpad? :D

[@ElevatedSystems]

@@gwenmorse8059 lol, no I returned it with the bad laptop.

[@trivolous28]

Can you measure the power while gaming with software monitoring tools and also maybe with a USB C dongle? Diagnosing why the battery is draining would go a long way to help FW and hopefully they could come up with a firmware fix. Probably a bug with battery management.

[@ElevatedSystems]

It's just math. Add up all the individual component power draw plus the power loss during voltage conversion and it adds up to over 200 watts.

[@midplanewanderer9507]

When I first heard about this Linux-friendly laptop manufacturer I was all gun-ho, but now I think I'll hang-back and see how this company matures. Great premise and promise, love the modular concept, but no way I'm paying big-time cash for a beta product. Needs better QC, and beefier power delivery. I really hope they can iron the bugs out.

[@EnrysonFerraz]

Try plug in on the backport(GPU module)..This may solved the battery drain issue on gaming. my theory is that the usbC passthrough module isnt giving the correct amperage to the laptop.

[@kamaltufekcic4618]

What I really don't get here is why they didn't just set it up with 2x120W chargers, we've seen this already in the past with proprietary connectors, so why not here with type c? To be clear, I'm no master of electronics, maybe I'm missing some reason why this isn't feasible or something like that with type c, but I don't think that's the case, though please do correct me if I'm wrong. Sure, pioneering the first 180W type c charger is cool af, and presumably trying to make a 240W one as well, but if they had done it with 2x120W they could've saved a bunch of RnD money, production costs, whatever other expenses they might've had alongside it, and they could've also just made the GPU module have 2 ports on the back, one for display one for power, so you don't have to waste one of your connectors just for GPU power. Would've also made more sense for people upgrading, you could just an extra 120W charger + GPU module if you decide to get it, instead of now having to get another extra charger whenever we get one that can actually power the entire laptop, and making the old one effectively obsolete. I'm in batch 21 and I haven't even received mine yet, and I got it without the GPU or charger because neither seemed necessary to me, right now the GPU upgrade seems kind of unnecessary to me because in order to use it without draining your battery and potentially ending up with a power off if you leave it unattended for too long while running a task, you have to use efficiency modes or underclocking. I still love the company and will continue to support them however I can just because their mission aligns with my personal ideology, but this power issue kinda baffles me, it seems very shortsighted, and I really doubt we'll see a 240W charger any time soon due to the complexity involved in whatever current/voltage conversion has to go on in that brick, which will also undoubtedly be of questionable size.

[@CMDRunematti]

I don't understand, I set the battery to 85%, I gamed around 6 hours yesterday, the laptop was screaming trying to cool down, and there was no drop of percentage. Maybe I'm not using a demanding enough game?

[@ElevatedSystems]

What were you playing? When I play Helldivers or CP2077 those games keep the GPU demand at 95% to 100% and CPU at up to 60% which drains the battery, however I can play Skyrim online all day as it has much less demand on system resources.

[@ActionDan2857]

I had a similar with framework customer support. Just awful horrible time consuming process to get them to send a replacement top input cover because the one they sent me on my new 13 was bent and warped so bad the keyboard had key caps popping off. Took me multiple days and dozens of pictures to get them to replace it. F16 battery drain while on AC is DOA. Sucks because I do love my f13, but no way the 16 lives with a clear defect like that.

[@seebar8179]

Im having a Batch 7 machine. The only thing that doesnt satisfy me is the mentioned gap between the trackpad spacers. other than that the quality is as I would have expected it to be so far

[@marekkedzierski8237]

I wonder about their quality control. You would assume it would notice things like CPU cooling fans not working.

[@itstoxyk]

Even their QA/QC process still isnt great on the FW 13, i got mine a week ago (getting keyboard deck RMAd) and half the function keys as well as the up arrow key grind on the chassis when pressed, which definitely feels like something that should have been caught in quality control

[@spaghettiupseti9990]

I wonder what would happen if you disconnected the battery in the bios and ran games again, will the laptop just shut off?

[@seanconnors8371]

I wonder if using two chargers would mitigate the drain...

[@blahaj___]

lol i just ordered the 13" amd . fingers crossed

[@ElevatedSystems]

The 13” is an outstanding laptop. I’ve had mine for over 2 years now and use it daily.

[@JennyDarukat]

Mine has been going great, Batch 4 7840U DIY edition. It's a really nice laptop

[@toxicparasite3031]

But Fit and Finish still need a slight improvement. The screen isn't always mounted perfectly straight and the main-case could use better tolerances(maybe the whole laptop in general). I decided to live with it after two replacements being exactly the same and the issues being really minor. It is just that their QC doesn't live up to what was shown in the ltt factory tour. Edit: Some keyboard-Layouts aren't translated perfectly (German for example. US is probably fine :-| )

[@gwenmorse8059]

I have a 13. It's great.

[@HululusLabs]

I have a batch 4 as well, and the fit and finish is definitely still rough on my unit. I bent the spacers to fit better, but my biggest issue right now is the keyboard missing inputs occasionally on the same keys, and the remedy being to press down on where the pogo pins are to make it contact better. Currently working w/ support to remedy this. Still loving the laptop however!

[@intoxicode]

I was considering getting aftermarket power supply and seeing what my results were they do make 300 watt PD chargers..

[@davidboesen4400]

This isn't even slightly swaying me from my batch 7 preorder, and it is a shame this had to happen to you, but at least we can see how FW is improving and is willing to make up for some of these mistakes. I'm probably just going to be running on lower settings or underclocking (?) until we get either a 240w brick or some third party expansion card for barrel jacks.

[@ElevatedSystems]

Going with Balanced power settings significantly reduces the battery drain while plugged in, with slightly noticeable dips in performance.

[@davidboesen4400]

@@ElevatedSystemsas long as I end up with better performance than iris xe, I’ll be happy for a while

[@gucky4717]

Well, considering that the CPU uses up 54W and the GPU up to 100W (AMD specs) a 180W charger is not enough. The screen, M.2, RAM, fans and so on also uses some power. So the laptop seems to draw around 200W in total.

[@ElevatedSystems]

And that doesn’t take into account all the losses do to inefficiencies in the power delivery and conversion circuits. Any chip that gets hot means power is being lost.

[@sentranne]

Very nice!!

[@illuminati229]

Is the charger actually pushing 180W to the laptop? Or aomething less?

[@BraxtonMeyer]

Would it be possible to bulid a barrel jack module or would this be worthless due to the usb-c interconnect.

[@qlnzky]

It's funny how people love gasket mounts on mechanical keyboards but people hate keyboard flex on laptops.

[@crownoffyre894]

I'm hoping when 240 gan single port type c chargers come out it will solve any charging issue

[@asificam1]

Could you consider testing using a second USB C charger at the same time? If the laptop can run on two chargers at the same time then that might reduce the battery drain issue... this might be useful as I can't seem to find any legit 240 watt USB C supplies. Even if it could run on a 180 watt and a 60 watt that would significantly improve things, and maybe justify a second 180 watt supply purchase.

[@ElevatedSystems]

It can only run on 1 charger. No way around that restriction.

[@asificam1]

@@ElevatedSystems Shucks... also, how did you find that out? Every system I have only has one PD port so this was a non-option. I'm looking at the docs to see what the extra power pins are for on the GPU module... apparently there are some pins that might be able to allow power to go into the laptop. Might be something that my engineer friend might be able to work with.

[@seamillo]

I was really hoping the FW 16 would be like the 13 but better cooling and better screen. Sad to see quality drops and very problematic power supply. Clearly rushed out before it's time and now they'll need to support it with upgrades built on top of a bad foundation.

[@garryconnors8804]

Bro broke out Klingon😂 what a nerd 😜

[@MSE-X]

Maybe FW should have just released a plain vanilla repairable 16 instead of one with all the bells and whistles. They not only swung for the fences, they shot for the moon this time. I hate to say this, because I'm a huge fan of the company and the 13, both the Intel 13th gen and AMD iterations, but some of the issues people are having are with the 16 are with table stakes, and FW as a startup barely out of its infancy doesn't have a lot of room for such issues, the RMAs, and the bad publicity. I hope this launch doesn't destabilize the company.

[@X862go]

odd they don't have 240 usb c.

[@AndersHass]

Interesting you got to keep your first laptop, even more spare parts for more tinkering.

[@ElevatedSystems]

I didn’t get to keep it, that’s me packing it up and returning it in the last 2 min of the video.

[@AndersHass]

@@ElevatedSystems oh I see. Still interesting you had it for so long and not have it returned before the new one arrives.

[@ElevatedSystems]

@@AndersHass framework cross ships. You don’t have to return the old device until the new one arrives.

[@AndersHass]

@@ElevatedSystems given the focus for Framework is minimizing waste they could spind this as a way to minimize the need for more packages, since you can then just use the new one to send the old one back (if you haven't already saved the old packaging).

[@YTesting]

The power supply issue is insane, wtf. You lose power using it plugged in?!

[@alanjrobertson]

Definitely not great re power draw. I take it no change with the new PSU that came with the RMA limit? Also any difference depending on which slot you have the USB-C port placed in? (just wondering if only a subset of them can handle full PD). Do you have an inline measurement tool to see if its a power supply issue vs a power usage issue? If the latter it sounds like it is drawing far too much and they need to optimise it!

[@ElevatedSystems]

I actually had 2 of the 180W chargers and they both worked the same. I have a USB power meter but it unfortunately only works with PD below 36V.

[@jierenzheng7670]

Wow, glad I didn't bite on the Framework 16. I got a Framework 13 but seems like USB-C tech is not capable of the power needed for the Framework 16 yet. Another complaint for the Framework is their software updates, particularly on their BIOS. I am still waiting for a stable release 12th Gen BIOS, yes the beta seems stable but Framework doesn't feel like they can mark the beta BIOS as stable sadly. So instead of producing so many new hardware lines, I wish they can invest more into their software side too.

[@FR4M3Sharma]

> producing so many hardware lines It's literally their second product in like 3 years of they have existed.

[@jierenzheng7670]

@@FR4M3Sharma not really, look at the colored bezels parts, 3 generations of Intel+1 generation of AMD on the Framework 13, and now Intel+AMD on Framework 16. There's more SKUs launched (Ethernet cards, etc), yet the older products software support is lacking, i.e. BIOS security updates, older Intel compatibility with the new 61Wh battery BIOS update. Considering they want us to continue to use those devices long term, you would need software support too.

[@schwingedeshaehers]

it only amd on the 16 i think ​@@jierenzheng7670

[@AaronBrooks1]

Can you use two chargers on the laptop simultaneously? You have two! :D

[@ElevatedSystems]

No you can’t

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

But can you put the numpad on the left?

[@ElevatedSystems]

Yes

[@Splarkszter]

I still can't believe i can use my laptop charger to charge my phone. Something i've never experienced before. I got a Yoga 7 with a R7 7735U (disguised 6800U) and my only complaints are: They could have easily placed a larger battery, there's space for it. The 65W charger is not enough for performance mode. The color accuracy is bad.

[@Splarkszter]

At least i paid only $580 for this refurbished unit. I'm happy for what it is. Could be better. Also, 16GB of system RAM is not enough for my purposes.

[@NamelessPassenger]

I need rtx 4080 gpu even if it was 115w, i need oled panel...i'm not mind paying more to get them.

[@scimbrelo]

Me: "i am an electrical computer engineer" Also me: no spinny spinny, its brokey brokey 😢

[@MegaHorrorLP]

A question came to my mind. Where you playing with the dedicated Radeon graphics module? That one has a own USB-C port for the 180W charger. The power drop on that shouldn't be that much....

[@ElevatedSystems]

Yes I was using the RX 7700S module but no it doesn’t have its own power input. It only has a USB-C alt display port for video output to an external display.

[@oviandre]

[@Watchandlearn91]

I'm sorry but if a laptop drains 24% an hour when plugged in while I'm gaming or doing really intensive productivity tasks, it will get returned and won't ever come back. That is insane that this thing was allowed to ship like that. I know Framework is a new company with great goals and they have done a great job with community involvement. I know that they have improved on their products generation over generation and seem to be taking feedback into account. But come on, would this be acceptable with any other laptop?

[@Winnetou17]

Yeah, at worst it should be configured in BIOS or something so it uses less power, and lets you "unlock" it if you actually want it (or if you get the 240W charger)

[@Watchandlearn91]

@@Winnetou17 Yes if it is configurable in the BIOS to let you use more power but defaults out of the box to use less power so that this doesn't happen, it would be acceptable to me..

[@seamillo]

Framework support needs to change. I've also had harrowing experiences with it. They are very bad for the brand and will 100% slow or even halt Framework's growth if they keep this up.

[@Dygear]

It dies even on power under heavy load. Wow, gonna cancel my pre-order then. That's nuts.

[@stevenswall]

After several hours of gaming without pause, yes. Doesn't seem relevant to most users who should be taking breaks and standing up, but if you're overnight rendering, it may not be for you.

[@schwingedeshaehers]

​@@stevenswallbut for only rendering, you can disable the display, which saves power.

[@mileswurster2035]

This experience begs the question, how modular is too modular?

[@bbrainstormer2036]

The issue appears to be a QC one mostly. But I do think that the modular keyboard might not have been the best idea

[@filipDcve]

The power issue is either a miscalculation of the power required by the laptop or there's a problem within the charger itself, which they'll hopefully be able to fix quickly. I personally don't see it as an issue that was caused by the choice of going with USB PD.

[@jonjohnson2844]

After 30 years of running just PCs I bought an M2 Macbook Pro - I paid for Apple Care and feel like I'm not gonna get screwed over if it goes wrong, Framework sound like a good company for support but they could also disappear tomorrow.

[@kelownatechkid]

Not being able to just use it plugged in is a wild level of incompetent design, and should not be rewarded. Ouch!

[@dfbess]

15 days.. and you got upset about it..sounds like framework did an amazing job.. I've dealt with 6 -12 month fights to get things fixed..

[@harvwallbanger1896]

So sad compared to a ThinkPad. Decades away from being viable. Sadly.

[@nealadams2188]

Promo*SM ✔️

[@Random-n7k]

If you have soooo much issue within that laptop go just buy apple laptop without any issues and 25000$ and says same thing about that laptop fix ram 8gb good for you

[@ElevatedSystems]

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro base model. It was only $1500, has 16GB of RAM and significantly outperforms the Framework 16.

[@LAFadhel]

I was right to cancel my Batch 1. Two things: I'll wait for 240W and a more Powerful GPU.

[@TheAtariSan]

It's a slim laptop, what did you expect expect, gaming on battery for over 3h's kinda a miracle. Having 1h of gaming 12y ago was a miracle unplug.

[@ElevatedSystems]

You missed a key fact. It was plugged in.

[@TheAtariSan]

@@ElevatedSystemsOk, that terribly bad, if i had to get a laptop, i would totally get a old thinkpad, but i got 50 laptop from dumpster diving and i just use my workstattion, so yeah

[@amateurwizard]

You speak Klingon haha

[@goobfilmcast4239]

FrameWork will not make it to 2025. Investor money will dry up soon and there's little appetite for new investment in x86-based consumer-grade computing companies.

[@Forista-f4p]

Yes? So it is a company without a future?

[@dfbess]

And they can't make Arm or Risc why? bold claim to say they won't make it because they have X86 ...

[@goobfilmcast4239]

Then they will splinter their product line....some modules for ARM, some modules for x86..... FrameWork won't even be around in a year or so....both the desktop and laptop form-factors will change in the next couple of years, regardless. PC hardware makers, in particular, need a wholesale changes and "conversion" to new architecture in order (to sell NEW units) to survive. Modularity is out....fan-less, power-sipping devices are in......Apple has already taken in this lesson @@dfbess

[@goobfilmcast4239]

@@dfbess Moving to ARM/RISC from x86 will require a substantial transition of Hardware and Software.....tens of millions of current Windows will find themselves having to buy ALL NEW versions of Hardware and Software just to be at the same level they experience now. Millions more will spend weeks, months, years chasing bugs and incompatibilities. Industry and Enterprise scale companies will not be able to handle the disruption. No company will achieve the success and smooth transition that Apple has achieved by moving away from x86. Face it ....Windows on x86 is really now a legacy technology based on antiquated software and power-inefficient hardware .