From Hieroglyphs to Emojis | Jaipur Literature Festival 2022

David Levy, Irving Finkel, and Michael Erdman in conversation with Pragya Tiwari Presented by Bagri Foundation
#hieroglyphs #ancienthistory #jaipurliteraturefestival

[@Laurabeck329]

Irving is the only man who can do an "old man yells at the sky" routine and make it funny and entertaining

[@bobaldo2339]

I was kind of watching out for someone to say, "Emojis are awesome!" But, I must say that when all the transient digital forms of writing are long gone, those Cuneiform tablets will still be here - even if humanity is extinct. And I think "the new clay" as a characterization of digital communication is foolishness.

[@emiliamartucci8291]

When Irving speaks, I listen. I tended to “tune out” the other two fine gentlemen. Wish I could explain my thoughts with the clarity and conciceness and interesting manner of Irving.

[@michaelgorby]

I really enjoy his lectures and hearing him speak in general. A large part of that is his raw and unbridled enthusiasm for the subject matter. That being said, I think his aversion to the use of emojis is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of their purpose. Of course language is much better for expressing emotion, but it is quite inefficient in short bursts of communication, such as text messages.

[@boostystarman3906]

Be honest, we all know who we’re here for.

[@oyeknod]

Irving you are just too smart for this world!

[@fokkenhotz1]

I absolutely ADORE irv finkel

[@warlockcraft21]

I think one thing, not considered on the emoji front is linked to cost. When I first got a mobile phone, the cost per text was high and the word count was small. Abbreviation and emoticons etc became very necessary in order to carry out conversations without burning through your credit or going outside of a contract. And now in the age of unlimited texts, I've found that abbreviations has reduced, as letter counts matter little and, of course autocorrect has meant that spelling is easy.

[@pvp6077]

I can't imagine what Irving Finkle has to say about autocorrect lol ....

[@StelleenBlack]

I use emojis, and I have a broad lexicon. I use them for emotion. It's a wonderful tool for communication.

[@pvp6077]

I love him, but he can't possibly understand since he doesn't actually text to communicate. Funny isn't it? He'd rather talk on the phone than learn how language is evolving right in front of him via text through an international community actually communicating in real time across nations, cultures, and politics .... cause he thinks its just kids being stupid

[@StelleenBlack]

@pvp6077 yes it's stubborn haha

[@bobaldo2339]

There was/is a PBS documentary on the history of writing that was very enjoyable. It was part of the ongoing Nova series, and was called, "How Writing Changed The World".

[@marysibayan5643]

This was wonderful.

[@shilpagujiri4532]

That's a really good idea, to write a chapter in cuneiform writing system. Sounds pretty fun 😂😆😂

[@StephiSensei26]

With respect to developing the emotional content of writing: We have music! Music is writing. Music is communication. Music is emotional. And, Music is so direct a medium, it needs no specific language, because it already is all languages and surpasses language. Music also has "grammar" and structure. Music is Cuneiform in dots and squiggles. You might even call it Dottieform! The human species has an innate need to communicate from the one to another, because it validates our reason for existing. Human beings could not exist in a vacuum.

[@frankboulton2126]

Another great video. I might use the occasional emoji but I don't like to use Google Translate. How can you learn a new language, when the computer does all of your translating? Google Translate is a hindrance to language acquisition.

[@Breaks4Life]

MOST EXCELLENT !!

[@jorgikralj905]

What about Vinca script?

[@horsetuna]

If it's 2022 festival why is it published in 2019?

[@leucocephala]

All of these historians are actually time travelers from the future.

[@DisVietVetUSA]

talk about the inuit cuneiform for language in communication

[@horsetuna]

I'm intrigued. I can't find anything beyond their carvings on google but I want to know more.

[@simonhawker9277]

the practice of pen to paper is an art form not just mere communication. emails and text messages are mere communication emojis are and attempt at raising it to art but we dont yet see the beuty of it

[@TTeamFan]

Well said , Irvine!

[@MichaelKingsfordGray]

What?

[@SindyJB]

The video should be called from Cuneiform to emojis 🤦‍♀️ but of course Mesopotamia is not as cool as Egypt, thank the gods for Irving

[@asadkhazal2988]

The most wonderful civilization, the Mesopotamian civilization, preferred it to the whole world. It taught the world writing and laws. Hammurabi's law 282. The law of the first epic in the world. The epic of Gilgamesh. The first to discover space sciences and the solar system and the development of planets according to their orbits. The planet Nibiru. Agogesh in the world The Babylonian and Assyrian army ruled the world twice in the time of Nimrod and Nebuchadnezzar The Babylonians discovered algebra The strongest leaders in Iraq conquered the Pharaohs in the Battle of Carchemish The Assyrians occupied Egypt twice The strongest civilization and the most wonderful civilization The oldest civilization Mesopotamia civilization

[@hattusilli2225]

Maybe Indians and Pakistanis Archaeologist should get to work uncovering more stuff covered in the land.

[@mozhgansavabieasfahani7560]

Jiroft Civilization, near Kerman, in Iran, goes back 6 to 8 thousand years ago. Jiroft had two written languages. Why is no one talking about that? Could it be prejudice against Iran? 🤔

[@ikariameriks]

Lol no

[@mozhgansavabieasfahani7560]

@@ikariameriks says moon buckets 🪣? 😂😳🫤

[@whtalt92]

Finkel almost immediately referred to this exact opportunity - 4 years before you posted this.

[@mozhgansavabieasfahani7560]

@@whtalt92 well, Finkle didn't insist on a comprehensive study funded by international community, the way he did for his other project, the Noah's Arch, did he?

[@whtalt92]

@@mozhgansavabieasfahani7560 When you start misrepresenting a privately funded documentary, you're already behind.

[@pvp6077]

I love Irving Finkle, but he can't possibly understand the point of emojis since he doesn't actually text to communicate. He's illiterate in that language. He thinks pictograms like 🐝🍃 to mean belief are cute and fun traditions but emojis are killing language. Funny isn't it? He'd rather talk on the phone than learn how language is evolving right in front of him via text through an international community actually communicating in real time across nations, cultures, and politics .... cause he thinks its just kids being stupid If he actually took the time to learn he'd realise that we've been creating a universal language via expression, not just emojis but gifs, memes, expression packs, etc whereby we directly connect feelings to images without words being necessary as a middleman. As dismissive as he was regarding translators, I've been using google translate to read Chinese webnovels for several months. I've had to find a Chinese encyclopedia (Baidu, also translated) to help me understand phrases, historical and pop culture references, and literature samples to better understand the idioms and various cultural references contained within. Now I know what it means to not kill Bo Ran but Bo Ran died because of me, why officials can burn whole mountains but regular people can't make a fire to cook rice, that a mud ox that slips into the sea can never be retrieved, and why oil fried devils are cooked in two and enjoyed for breakfast. I also know that every time a Chinese citizen wants to criticize the gov't they use doge.jpg as a symbol of sarcasm while using words like unity and harmony and other gov't catchphrases because the gov't will literally ban the use of certain words online and will arrest and persecute citizens for criticizing the gov't. They aren't using emojis because they haven't learned enough Mandarin in school. I'm getting buried in academic references to ancient poems and literature. They're using them to express thoughts and feelings that cannot be expressed in other ways. And even when British society was at its height of rich literate people sending letters, they drew pictures in them too. Words have never been able to express **everything** otherwise we wouldn't bother having music or art. A picture is worth a thousand words because even a thousand words cannot express all the possible meanings and feelings that can be experienced through one meaningful image. If words were all that we needed to communicate ideas, we wouldn't have pictures in botany books because the description of the plant would be enough. We wouldn't have all those paintings of rich people because descriptions of them would suffice. Imagine asking someone to just tell you, with all the words available in the Oxford English Dictionary, what does the Sistine Chapel look like? What about Michaelangelo's David? It's got a description written by educated British people. No need to look then right? In fact, why should we even be watching this when it could have been provided in podcast form? Why should we watch Irving's physical expressions of his feelings or emotions while discussing these topics instead of just slapping a powerpoint of cuneiform and Indus Valley scripts on the screen instead? What does seeing him bring to this discussion over a printed page of paper with his responses written out? He might not know, but we do. What he's saying is important, but we care, we're connected to it, because of his expressions. Because we can feel how much **he** cares. A piece of paper or a clay tablet can't display the emotions we see and feel from him as he talks. Even a discription of his expressiveness cannot actually capture the experience of seeing and hearing him ourselves. And what's more, words can only describe what the individual has experienced in their own perception. An image allows everyone to experience it themselves directly, through their own lens. Two different people seeing the same event can describe two (or more) completely different situations. Who's description is accurate though? Both of them. So what actually happened? The only way to judge for yourself is to see for yourself. It wasn't all that many years ago that a blue/white/gold/something dress broke the whole internet even though we **were** all looking at the same thing. Something that thousands of news articles written by expressive and articulate journalists with writing degrees were unable to describe in a way that mattered if you couldn't see a picture of that dress. Once you saw it, no explanation was necessary. People for whom using english to express themselves accurately and descriptively is their only job, bottomed out the english dictionary looking for ways to explain a dress and every single person said, "No, I have to see this." The fact is, English is not a great "language" at all. It's an amalgamation of grammar and vocabulary from about a dozen or so different sources at this point, most of them recognized as being distinctly "not english", and we're still supplementing it to this day with words or phrases we simply don't have in our own language, references and experiences that previously were not common, and existing words who's meanings have warped over time. Just a few years ago, dozen of Filipino words were added to an english dictionary on the basis that millions of english speaking people were commonly using those words. I myself enjoy adobo chicken. Even if i wanted to describe it in english, what's the english word for "paprika"? There isn't one, we use the name it has. Just like we use tsunami, falafel, and entrepreneur. There are simply too many thoughts and feelings and ideas in the world for a sad grab bag of assorted lingual bits and bobs like the "english language" to even try to encapsulate, and poor Dr Finkle would find himself completely bewildered at a sentence that I myself and certainly anyone under the age of 25 would find not only intelligible, but extremely descriptive of a specific situation to which we all collectively relate. Memes are a language unto themselves, and using emojis, gifs, etc to communicate is just speaking in a language he's not prepared or equipped to comprehend. I think if he maybe took off a weekend or two every month and tried his hand at it he might learn a thing or two, but then who's gonna translate the Indus Valley scripts for us?

[@akirashibata777]

Hebrew is also not Jewish original language and it is New writing system after World War 2. Jew had been used Cuneiform in Babylonia. They never had had original language. This is The Fact.

[@qwfs8936]

The assorted ravioli coronally peep because wrecker ultrasonographically repeat along a ill-informed musician. juicy, wretched nigeria

[@angelawossname]

Dinosaur.

[@greengrasse120]

I generally love Irving but Damn I can barely listen to him so completely disparaging the language of young people, including his own kids. I thought linguistic prescriptivism was no longer acceptable in academics

[@NotMeButAnother]

While the whole hating emoji shtick can be grating, although I'm not sure how seriously he actually means that, he is somewhat correct that communication especially in the form of proper argumentation isn't really taught enough. Rethoric is an important subject and I suspect we're very deliberately not taught anymore, because it would enable us to recognize bad arguments from politicians and other demagogues.

[@bigfrankfraser1391]

@@NotMeButAnother selective education to control the masses by essentially "rewriting" common knowledge

[@MichaelKingsfordGray]

Of course, you won't do this!