From Node.js to Deno: How It All Began

[@zombiefacesupreme]

Ryan Dahl is a true visionary. I just watched his Google TechTalk this morning, and it's clear that he was so far ahead of his time. One fun thing I learned is that he wanted require to be asynchronous originally. If the CommonJS people hadn't convinced him to change it, we might have never had this whole CJS/ESM debacle in the first place!

[@pjmaas106]

I am a noob what is this debacle you speak of sir?

[@zombiefacesupreme]

@@pjmaas106 Node's CommonJS (CJS) modules came first. They're synchronous (the whole app waits 'til they finish loading). That doesn't fit into browsers where modules might get loaded from servers far away-- you don't want your whole website being blocked because of one slow JavaScript module. Instead, you want to load them asynchronously. So, EcmaScript Modules (ESM) came later to bring modules to the browser. Unfortunately, the two systems are pretty incompatible due to their different loading methods. This is why you will sometimes see .mjs and .cjs files, it's why there is a "type" setting in your package.json, and it's part of why people were impressed that Bun lets you use them together in the same package. This issue is slowly getting better, but it's haunted JavaScript library developers for years because it's really hard to make code that works well in all environments.

[@zombiefacesupreme]

​@@pjmaas106 I wrote a really long comment that got shadow-deleted by KZbin's awful automated censorship. Just Google CJS and ESM. Sorry. KZbin comments is a terrible place for discussion and they don't allow links.

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@zombiefacesupremeboth your comments got filtered unless you sort comments by newest

[@RustIsWinning]

​@@pjmaas106the tldr version is that you have an ecosystem which uses two incompatible module systems. ESM is modern and standardized. CJS is old and outdated.

[@JLarky]

Deno was created by conference driven development 😮

[@mariomario4676]

Perfect timing. Thank you for the great content. I started playing with deno two days ago. Like how easy it is to deploy as well.

[@2u841r]

Ryan Dahl, Anthony Fu, Evan You are my coding life Hero

[@rcnhsuailsnyfiue2]

I’m a Laravel dev and have successfully avoided using Node for anything meaningful for over a decade 😅 In a recent project I needed to run user-supplied JS server-side, and was dreading the prospect of having to provision isolated runtimes just to get some semblance of security. Finding Deno was an incredible blessing ! A single binary, sandboxed and isolated, which even supports TypeScript natively… you saved me countless days and many more gray hairs. Thanks Ryan and the Deno team!!!

[@codewithmoses]

lol 😂

[@oussamamaatallah0]

can we have an interview about flutter? I liked the style of documentary

[@CodeWhizbang]

Haha, Flutter? Really? Flutter and Dart are just an abomination! Dart as a language feels like a step backward, and Flutter is basically this bloated framework trying to do everything but ends up doing nothing well. It's nothing compared to native tech like Kotlin and Jetpack Compose. Compose just feels so much more natural and intuitive, and when you add in Compose Multiplatform, man, it's game over. Kotlin is such a modern, powerful language, and don’t even get me started on coroutines. They’re like the icing on the cake, handling asynchronous tasks with such elegance. Flutter doesn't even come close to that level of awesomeness. Why settle for less?

[@oussamamaatallah0]

@@CodeWhizbang thanks

[@mwlulud2995]

@@CodeWhizbang React native is also pretty good!

[@danurahadi3607]

@@CodeWhizbang 💯agree.. I think one day, Kotlin will conquer all area of software engineering.

[@martinkinywa2512]

Flutter is the result of someone building something to get a promotion. No value, lots of hype.

[@omarizem8352]

Just when i thought juggling 100000 JavaScript frameworks was enough, now we have 100000 runtime environments too should I just go back to PHP and call it a day? 🤔😅

[@RottenMuLoT]

TBF PHP has a couple of frameworks as well. I wouldn't see myself using vanilla PHP w/o Symfony or Laravel or one of those fancy async frameworks.

[@AFUHFlyinns]

Wow this is interesting. I will be glad to be one of the first people to create a complete application with Deno 😊

[@emantubail3041]

This made me interested to learn C++

[@ruzzan]

Do Django

[@UliTroyo]

I don't know anything about Django (other than it's the Rails of Python), so I would love to see that.

[@mwlulud2995]

@@UliTroyo Yes, but not powefull

[@Dong-sl2qi]

abstract everything and make us dum deno is abstractting hard work but i just love it lol

[@CodeWhizbang]

Have you thought about making one for Kotlin too? Would be awesome to see you dive into that!

[@sle6423]

Gotta get me a Deno plushie...

[@UliTroyo]

Deno and Bun both have Node beat in the plushie category, truly the most important tech benchmark.

[@mysterOrel7924]

Guys where are you ???

[@TheOriginalJohnDoe]

"That was it" - Ryan: Great 😐

[@NikKita-f8i]

Legend!

[@bobDotJS]

I can't wait for Theo to steal this documentary and then turn his audience against Honeypot again

[@uwot918]

Stop caring about what superficial KZbinr personalities do

[@bobDotJS]

@@uwot918 I hate the guy because I can't avoid him. He is quite literally involved with my professional life.

[@UliTroyo]

I can tell @bobDotJS watches Theo ask me how

[@JohnZakaria]

Why would Theo do that? Do you have a video for me?

[@br3nto]

He’s quite the negative Nancy to the point of being toxic. Even the positive things he says is sandwiched between negativity.

[@johnnm3207]

please do BunJs and HTMX

[@RustIsWinning]

That's not even close to be interesting to watch 😂

[@LongerThanAverageUsername]

Do web developers know they don’t have to hunch over a laptop and can used a desktop with a screen they can actually see?

[@RustIsWinning]

Ah yes let me quickly grab my heavy machine with my wide monitor and travel where I want to go 😂

[@rizkyandi6535]

from Deno to Done

[@toothless.tarantula]

nice

[@bigbadcatbigbcy2933]

Deno shuld be industry standard

[@bjojosimpson]

Just like Kotlin was supposed to replace Java... Surprise, surprise.

[@bigbadcatbigbcy2933]

@@bjojosimpson nah java is good as it is

[@bjojosimpson]

@@bigbadcatbigbcy2933 I meant to say that ~4 years ago people also expected Kotlin to replace Java. All in all, Deno lost its momentum, and the industry is already too invested on Node.js. The companies moving away from Node are likely going to languages such as Golang, and those that have strict performance requirements are switching to Rust. There is no space for another single-threaded Javascript-based language.

[@martinkinywa2512]

Then we will get Onde in 2030!!

[@yeanurrahman446]

Nodejs শেষ করতে পারলাম না এরই মধ্যে Deno নিয়ে আসছে ভাই ডাল আমরা কি চট করে Deno শিখতে পারবো 😂

[@imPrathamDev]

wait it's dano or deno?

[@UliTroyo]

When Ryan first invented it, he said "DEH-no". Later it was changed to "DEE-no", like a dinosaur. (Which I know is "DIE-no", tech names are bonkers.)

[@sadunozer2241]

Ryan Dahl is binary Jesus

[@edwinquaihoi8503]

mistakes ... npm and allowing ~ and ^ dependency versioning oh and a copy of dependency for each project rather than a central local repo

[@cotyhamilton]

🦕

[@prateekshukla346]

HTMX pliss

[@swornimshah8898]

react native documentry

[@owlmostdead9492]

What the world needs is less javascript and not more, I’m pretty sure even the biggest fanboy will accept that javascript is being used for things it has no business being used in.

[@GomrRomasg]

Gonzalez Kimberly Davis Michelle Martin Jason

[@gautamdiwan5952]

Bun Next Svelte Golang Django Nest Flutter These can be made into documentaries Rust

[@CodeWhizbang]

Flutter and Dart? Absolute abominations. They just don’t measure up to native tech like Kotlin and Jetpack Compose. And don’t even get me started on Next.js, totally overrated. Remix, on the other hand, is awesome. It’s the kind of modern, solid framework that actually gets things right. Kotlin and Jetpack Compose just blow everything else out of the water with their elegance and efficiency.

[@martinkinywa2512]

Javascript should be eliminated from the backend and remain where it was designed to be, the browser. I would not be caught dead deploying a javascript backend

[@bjojosimpson]

As a former Javascripter, I hear you.

[@RustIsWinning]

Found the PHP devs 😂

[@danurahadi3607]

💯💯but we can't do it now, because the Node.js market is one of the biggest in the world right now.. 😆

[@martinkinywa2512]

@@RustIsWinning I actually write many languages. Python, PHP, Java, C, C#, Objective C, Golang, Rust and JS/TS professionally. As a professional dev, Javascript has given the worst results on the backend in my career. I have been developing for 20 years and have been the lead dev for over 100 software projects. Though your profile says "RustIsWinning", your comment clearly tells me you are a Javascript fanatic. I suspect you have not done much professional work with rust

[@RustIsWinning]

@@martinkinywa2512 Alright man I totally believe someone on the internet with all those numbers after writing such a bait comment. You still did not state what and how you came to these results. What went wrong? Tell us.

[@BetaBilim]

to be honest , bun,js makes me more excited

[@Sammi84]

Bun came out promising perfect nodejs compatibility at the time when Deno was still trying to avoid that. Deno clearly did a 180 on node compatibility because of Bun, and we're all better off for it. Right now it looks like Bun is much more willing to break web standards than Deno, and there doesn't seem to be much of a performance difference between the two. I was worried about the viability of Deno there for a while, but it seems better now. I'm still on node though. I was stuck because of the AWS npm package, but that seems to be supported in Deno now, so now I just need the bandwidth to make a serious attempt at Deno.

[@b_two]

deno's dedication to web compatibility makes deno far more appealing than bun

[@RustIsWinning]

Segfaults get you excited? Cool 😂

[@js-ny2ru]

After 6 years of Deno I confider it as failure...