FROM THE ARCHIVES | Spatial Disorientation (2001)

"An erroneous sense of one's position and motion with respect to the ground is the most lethal general aviation accident precursor. This video introduces you to many faces of spatial disorientation and suggests practical strategies and tactics for cooping with this acknowledged killer." (2001)
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[@RoamingAdhocrat]

well that intro was chilling.

[@toetz4491]

the piano did it

[@PureGlide]

That's so nice of Troy McClure to help out with this

[@whiskeybravo91]

I was listening on my headphones and had this on in the background and when I heard him start talking I thought the same thing 😂 (RIP)

[@brianmartin1139]

beat me to it.

[@kdawson020279]

I loved his performance in such school safety films as "Locker Room Towel Fight: The Blinding of Billy McGee" 😂 Rip Phil Hartman

[@scarybaldguy]

"Trust your instruments." Instruments: *fail* "Ignore your instruments!"

[@mofayer]

It is hard to believe that both failed at the same time. Most likely one vacuum pump was already inop before takeoff.

[@Spartan536]

VFR into IMC leaves you with 180 seconds to live. Spatial disorientation is very deadly which is why it's so heavily reinforced in modern flight training.

[@baddadjoker9570]

I think ATC should at least have to go through a private pilot ground school with refreshers every few years. The controller was clueless. The pilot could have communicated the severity of the situation better.

[@azyanziyad1291]

"How Can They Get Lost, They got One Road on the Island" Killed me 🤣🤣This is why I love Archives, They Bring a Fun Way of Learning something in a good way

[@bigB6flyer]

There should be no shame or hesitation in declaring an emergency in any of these situations. Be clear and concise with exactly what you need from ATC. “I’ve lost my flight instruments. I need headings and an altitude that will get me to a nearby airport with VFR weather.” Stay calm and prepare by getting some BAI training while in your private training. Don’t take chances if the weather is marginal vfr and you aren’t ifr rated.

[@zaggoth]

We need an accident investigation report on this acting.

[@jonathankleinow2073]

The special effects, too. Some meteorology student could write their thesis on those clouds that keep bouncing down toward the plane.

[@klasmova2771]

scary shit. it’s crazy how it sounds like ATC wasn’t really aware of the severity of the situation either. -in retrospect, I did not intend to generalize all of ATC in this comment, I just feel as though the controllers in this video could have done more provided the situation

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

I mean they won't be if you don't tell them, unless you're lucky...

[@klasmova2771]

@@RoamingAdhocrat a spin in IMC with partial panel should raise a flag. but i’m with you on the actual declaring an emergency part

[@rykehuss3435]

ATC are not pilots most often, they dont know and pilots cant expect them to know. Its on pilots to declare emergency, they should save the jargon and just declare mayday or pan pan

[@johnopalko5223]

Most controllers are not pilots. The pilot telling ATC about a vacuum pump failure isn't really useful. The pilot should have declared an emergency, reported loss of gyro instruments, and requested no-gyro vectors. The mechanism behind the loss of the instruments isn't relevant to anyone except the A&P.

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

​@@johnopalko5223 True, but ATC would know what a spin is, right? I may be wrong, but I've got the feeling that she couldn't care less what the outcome will be for those pilots...

[@jonathankleinow2073]

8:20 "Simon radio, it's kind of marginal here with low ceilings, but the forecast was for VFR. I'd like to speak to your manager."

[@YakkiLynn]

I love these old archived videos! 😭 So nostalgic.

[@liamb8644]

The initial portion of the video is actual ATC audio from a real accident near Albuquerque, NM on January 20, 1999. After the frequency change to 127.4, the last words the pilot broadcast on frequency were: "Nine November Lima, we're going down. We're dead."

[@Shardith]

I've been in the soup many times with my pilot dad and the disorientation is very real. Your can feel like you're turning when you're straight and level, and feel like you're going straight when you're in a turn.

[@Lifebackmed]

To all the people talking about how kitschy the video is, let me tell you, this stuff is real. Special disorientation will totally mess you up. It’s absolutely wild how much it takes over your body

[@CameTo]

About 20 years ago I visited the ATC @ Manchester Airport, and the guy showing me round said they only took controllers that were also pilots. I'm not sure if this is a UK wide requirement, or just local decision, but the opening of this video shows why in the heat of the moment it's crucial - especially when you consider the pilot is likely overloaded at this point, and despite trying to play it cool, really needs help & fast

[@moiraatkinson]

They would be woefully short of controllers if they only employed pilots.

[@nian60]

What a shame that the first pilot didn't try to save himself by declaring an emergency. Maybe pilots should be taught that ATC are not mind-readers, since this is apparently not clear to some of them.

[@dh-flies]

LORAN? This is very old.

[@KingAir90Pilot]

I actually giggled when I heard him say that

[@TheSimCaptain]

Let's get this straight. The pilot at 10:40 kept to VFR in VMC, but flew into a tower because he wasn't looking? That's nothing to do with spatial disorientation.

[@MisterTechnologic]

Came here to say that lol that video was hard enough to watch, but then he just turns around and crashes into a tower that looked miles away.

[@megadavis5377]

It’s stunning to realize that Charles Lindbergh flew from San Diego across the entire western mountainous region to St. Louis at night with no electrical system and no gyros. All he had was needle-ball, altimeter, airspeed and compass.

[@barblargh]

The turn needle *is* a gyro though.

[@zarbon700]

Cheesy video. Love it.

[@rustydomino694]

man this video had me on the edge of my seat

[@mitch5096]

Great video

[@southwestxnorthwest]

GoPro has come a long way since 2001

[@octaviovaladaoferreirinhad2689]

I am an atc, and guys, there is no place in the world where controllers are required to understand aircraft systems or even basic aerodynamics. Most of my coworkers would not understand how serious the loss of both vacuum pumps is during an IFR flight. Do not expect atc to evaluate the problem, declare emergency, squawk 7700 and request help.

[@iadcrjca]

We are way past time for this training to BE required.

[@danwein]

The girl laughed... 2:32 . I guess it's funny when you don't know what a vacuum pump is.

[@IamCec]

Yeah that pissed me off.

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

Yea she said vaccum tube thats not funny at all. They need to have atc familiar with critical systems so they can pick up on these things and declare an emergency for the pilot who is reluctant.

[@dermick]

@@Darkvirgo88xx The pilot needs to clearly state the nature of their emergency. Lots of ATC recordings show that many pilots are not the best communicators, particularly during a stressful situation. We can of course train ATC a bit better, but it's up to us as pilots to be clear. ATC can't know the impact on every aircraft's system failures.

[@IamCec]

This is a beyond horrifying situation. No exaggeration. Controller from hell 😢

[@olympiashorts]

"He lost his vacuum pumps or whatever". Sheesh. She should have declared an emergency for him and gotten some help from a controller who actually knew what this meant. "He has vacuum tube lossage"..."Vacuum tube lossage, mmhmm". Wow, I don't know what to say. This, on the heels of him saying "I think we're in a spin". Holy hell. This guy needed everything ATC could throw at him. Speed callouts, heading deviations of more than a few degrees, altitude changes of more than 50 ft would have helped him stay focussed on flying the plane. This ho-hum approach is crazy. I half expected him to have to say "our wings have fallen off" before the gravity of the situation was recognized.

[@semaex]

it's neither the controller's job nor right to declare an emergency on behalf of a pilot. As long as the pilot doesn't request any assistance, controllers don't give any. As a pilot you must always be aware that YOU are responsible, and ATC is only there to help. Don't request help? You won't get it. That's why it's so utterly important for pilots to get off their high horses whenever they are wrong and admit that something's up. Still too many cowboys out there who think they can handle anything and don't need outside assistance.

[@olympiashorts]

@@semaex Are you sure that ATC does not have "the right" to declare an emergency for a pilot? I have not read the 7110 but have listened to at least a few stories in which ATC did indeed declare an emergency when the pilot had not. I have also seen online discussions that suggest this is a thing.

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

​@@semaexPick any 10 random ATC recordings and you'll find at least one were ATC declares an emergency on behalf of the pilots. Task saturation is quite high for pilots during such events, not to mention the risk of hypoxia at higher altitudes (which affects the brain thus decision making), so ATC is not just allowed, but required to declare an emergency.

[@navy_flyer2331]

This is a lack of training on the pilot's part. Any basic flight training needs to teach pilots how to communicate with ATC during emergencies. Speak clearly, and simply. ATC aren't always pilots and don't know specifics... especially centers and smaller TRACONs who don't routinely handle large complicated aircraft, or aren't staffed heavily. Tell ATC CLEARLY what your deficiencies are: "XXX we're declaring an emergency. we've lost critical flight instruments and can't easily tell our attitude or heading. I need no-gyro vectors to VMC".

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

@@navy_flyer2331 This happened more than 20 yrs ago and the pilot had gotten his licence in the '80s. Idk what the regulations were back then and if that was the norm. I find it more concerning the we still have lots pilots with similar RT skills today, when the aviation regulations and standards are said to be far superior.

[@murrethmedia]

Dumb question, but should you file pireps even if the weather is perfect?

[@josephhaas7413]

It’s not a dumb question, at all! And yes, you should. If you’re experiencing turbulence aloft, for example, that would be very good to report. In that example, if you give one concerning turbulence, then that may help inform the go/no-go decision of a pilot uncomfortable and/or inexperienced in turbulence; especially for student pilots

[@stlmusic]

That guy in the first reenactment sounded just like Tim Meadows character, “The Ladies Man”.

[@WilliamR540]

I wonder if it's the fact that we make flying inadvertently into cloud or low visibility seem impossible, and you will die in 178 seconds a critical stress factor that could exacerbate further bad PDM or spatial disorientation. The plane flies the same and it's a little more challenging, but if you can remain calm and cross scan your instruments (mainly your AI, pitch and power = performance) You could turn around or ask for a vector to avoid obstacles and get back into VMC. This could be a bad take and circumstantial but just a thought.

[@tylerbrown4483]

I don’t think that’s the case. Continued vfr into IMC is about equally as deadly for instrument rated and current pilots as it is for vfr only pilots. I think it’s the transition from flying visually to flying in instrument conditions without adequate mental preparation. The urge to make your inner ear feel 1g is irresistible unless you’re fully ready and committed to overcoming it. Could you get a vector and fly by the instruments back to safety? Sure. Some people do. And the 180 degree turn back into vmc has saved countless lives when the situation is recognized before you get blocked in from behind. But it still requires about 3 minutes of holding level flight based on a little gyro indicator when your body *knows* you’re in a 45 degree left bank and 10 degrees nose down. There is a lot of atc transcript talking to pilots who confidently tell ATC they’re climbing wings level seconds before they hit the ground at a high degree of bank in a steep nose down attitude.

[@cturdo]

Wow, give ATC a basic course on aircraft systems.

[@RioRM1]

I’m surprised how ATC even until today doesn’t have instruments and emergency knowledge . It is like calling 911 and saying over the phone someone passed out and the person thinks it isn’t an emergency and laughs at it.

[@NongBenz]

It's more like going through a McDonald's drive thru and expecting them to understand if you say your clutch is burnt out. Its a pilots responsibility to communicate issues to non-pilots clearly. A pilot is certified on specific aircraft, expecting less-paid ATC to memorize every type of aircraft and their backup systems in addition to their workload isn't practical.

[@martinbrink6711]

Incorrect. A McDonalds employee has zero equivalence with an ATC. If ATCs can’t understand that oil pressure, fuel, vacuum, or partial panel in IMC aren’t emergent conditions, they need to find other career paths. It is 2024 folks. No excuses. (Of course this does not absolve the pilot from responsibility, but remember: ANC. Sometimes the pilot is too overloaded to communicate and a safe ATC can put together a better idea as to how to help the pilot if they had basic systems knowledge (not knowledge of every airplane). The ATC in the intro would not pass today’s standards.

[@Username-2]

⁠@@martinbrink6711If the pilot is too overloaded to communicate in a stressful situation they should find another career path.

[@gw6667]

Vertigo, VERTIGO!

[@kennylewis6702]

Those community theater thespians are killing me lol...

[@KM-ql4eb]

Acting maybe was a bit hammy but it did the job for me, it's absolutely haunting to know this really happened, to put yourself in their place. Scary stuff.

[@travelwithtony5767]

A controller that doesn’t know what vacuum pumps (or whatever) are, has to be one of the most chilling things I’ve ever heard coming from ATC. Unbelievable that this person was ever allowed to control traffic.

[@peterj5751]

I think that’s harsh. The pilot said he had electric back up and never declared an emergency. The pilot didn’t seem to really appreciate how severe his situation was so it is no wonder that ATC didn’t appreciate the the pilot was in a life or death situation.

[@iadcrjca]

As part of their training, ATC personnel need to have basic knowledge of aircraft systems. Partial panel, vacuum pump failures, these should be familiar to controllers and immediately set off alarm bells for them. She had zero clue what the ramifications of the problem were. Vacuum tubes?? When the other controller clued her in she should have immediately cleared the aircraft to a lower altitude that was below the bases. Bases are 13,000 and you cleared him to 14? Ugh…. On the other hand, the pilot should have declared an emergency and stated they were descending to something below the reported layer. Maybe in this case, 10,000. ATC will get traffic out of your way. Declare, and do what you need to meet the emergency. Better to have a discussion with the FAA than die.

[@Lugnut64052]

Exactly what I thought. If the bases were 13,000, clearing him to 14,000 ain't helping him much. I agree, the pilot should've declared an emergency and descended immediately.

[@LowandFast357]

That Debonair bit was so cringy. It was worse than anything I've ever seen on Air Disasters.

[@jddonmoyer2489]

I liked the pirep part lol

[@gendaminoru3195]

AHRS is worth every penny. Everyone should get something, even if the G-275.

[@RMR1]

This was 2001? It has 1980s, maybe early '90s, written all over it. I know it was almost a quarter-century ago, but it looks and sounds like a decade or two earlier.

[@jimsmith1856]

But what happened to Allan?

[@cogitoergospud1]

That controller in the intro needs to find another line of work.

[@jonathankleinow2073]

Well, that accident was in January of 1999, so it's likely she's retired more than 25 years later.

[@DavidMcLean1]

This is why our 172N no longer has a vacuum system... Garmin 275s and a GTN 375

[@fishhisy]

Removed my vacuum pump from my plane. EFIS is my savior

[@PlanTonto]

Hello.... I'm trying to find how I can contribute to support your page.... do you have like a Patreon thing? I've never done this before bit I don't see any buttons or anything to click on.... please advise... thank you!

[@commietube4273]

No! Pull up Chappy!

[@joeglennaz]

I thought they would do some basic emergency training for these controllers. They’re talking about vacuum tube failure. They have no idea what they’re talking about.

[@stevendegiorgio3143]

This is what happened to JFK jr.in 1999.Im a private pilot but I love flying by instruments.VFR flying is boring.Instrument flying is very interesting to me.I love the 6 pack.I have learned that each instrument can trll you more than one piece of information,example:The airspeed indicater not only gives you airspeed but pitch information.If your desending,the airspeed will increase,if your climbing,the airspeed will decrease.Its this fact why I love flying on the instruments.

[@ax.f-1256]

So in other words. Once again Bold pilots got themselves killed, because they expected ATC to be mind readers instead of just plainly saying: *MAYDAY, MAYDAY: Cessna XYZ Declaring emergency all Instruments failed, I'm in IMC thid is an emergency, i need immediate vectors to an Airport that is VFR !* Hoping the Controller has the exact same training, exact same experience and the exact same knowledge about the exact type of airplane the pilot is flying.... 🙈🙈 Yep, this will get you killed in absolutely every country on this planet. It is called *PILOT* in Command and NOT Controller in command for a reason. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Who has the training, type Rating/experience on the aircraft type ? The controller or the Pilot? Air traffic controllers do NOT need to know how an airplane works besides small rudimentary facts. And it was always like this, It is still like this, it will stay like this and it is like this everywhere on the planet 🤷🏻‍♂️ But Bold Pilots just stay bold. And bold pilot don't get old. They never get old. Because bold pilots don't get old because they are bold. Controllers will literally give you a speed 30 kts below stall speed. Yet most pilots still think the controllers are mins readers... Just file a f*cking flight plan ! If you don't have an instrument rating, get one ! If you have only one set of IFR instruments in your plane, install a backup or a second set, powered by another source ! (EFIS, gyro, electronic whatever) Don't ever fly into IMC without instruments and additional backup instruments that are independent of the normal instruments ! 🙄 Airliners have three sets of instruments exactly what that reason ! So a double set of at least altimeters, attitude indicators and speed indicator for your small plane is definitely worth the money ! It really appears some pilots are more willing to end up six feet under, than to spend a few bucks on additional safety systems that will save your life ... But no. Thousands of Bold Pilots always think they know everything better than the other thousands of other bold pilots who crashed for that exact same reason. It's literally the definition of insanity! Doing the exact same thing as another pilot, who crashed, and hoping for a different outcome. 🙄🙄

[@HomeshighlandPark]

Is this a twilight zone deal

[@danielmartens156]

Or whatever?! Fire that controller!

[@Hypocrisy2024]

The saddest part of this story is the acting 🎭

[@fredcloud9668]

It's good that they don't run Indy and Nascar races with pit crews that don't know the vehicle's they're racing.

[@bayard42350]

It would be nice if air traffic controllers spoke that slow !

[@jaredh723]

If you carry on a conversation when a pilot just said he thinks they're in a spin and that doesn't trigger immidiate dire situation with high likelyhood of death in your brain. Probably need a new carreer

[@fdwyerSDMM]

Declare an emergency. So sorry.

[@brianmorrison7542]

Why in HELL didnt he declare an emergency?

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

Most people are too embarrassed to do it. Its a pride thing I assume.

[@brunocat4402]

Walter White?

[@tangocharlie9291]

I didn’t know Dave Chapelle was a pilot!?!

[@HomeshighlandPark]

Omg man

[@fredcloud9668]

That controller is way out of her league. She needs to be replaced.

[@gw6667]

ATC aren't pilots. You shouldn't assume they know the flights dynamic impact of a specific equipment failure

[@dermick]

@@gw6667 Exactly - "I've lost my herp-derpity-derp!" How is ATC supposed to know what that means and what the impact will be on the aircraft? Every aircraft is different, which is why we get transition training.

[@iheart545x39]

This funny, I don't think it was meant to be though.

[@maxvogan8183]

Hey Harry you ready to go flying in the 737 MAX? HAILLLL NO!

[@KM-ql4eb]

So scary. Not a pilot but yikes.

[@seleccionmultiple2905]

Typical cheesy acting of 90's corporate training videos 😆

[@gonetoearth2588]

Painful video....terrible production and awful actors. But I do want the GIGANTIC E6B on the easel 🙂

[@KingfisherAbuGarcia]

1:30 "I guess he lost his vacuum pumps or whatever" said Lucy while chewing a Juicy Fruit the size of half a fist and filling a crossword puzzle. Also 2:36 that little chuckle 💀💀💀 With flight controllers like these, you don't need a technical problem or get-there-itis to be neck deep in sh1t creek.

[@aviatortrucker6285]

There is no such thing as a ceiling of 3500 scattered. They really should’ve worked on proper radio phraseology and made it a little more convincing. Remember, a ceiling is defined by either broken or overcast. By the way, he could have picked up an NDB or a.m. radio broadcast station in the area using his ADF. But since he didn’t know where he was, he was still able to determine he was 75 miles away? That’s confusing. Oh, and when he got a no Gyro steer, I was confused because I thought the airport he was going to had an ILS. Once he picked up the localizer, he didn’t need a Gyro steer anymore.

[@Spartan536]

Ceilings are the only for broken and overcast

[@semaex]

Thanks. For a moment I thought I was the only one confused by "ceiling scattered....". Also, to my information a Surveillance Radar Approach (SRA) doesn't require any pilot readbacks. Unlike the QNH, which he failed to read back. Either not a very good scriptwriting, or the lack of standard phraseology in the US is really as bad as I fear.

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

He's dead guys. All onboard are gonne. The crush was so bad that they couldn't even properly identified them. But I'm sure that if they would have make it, they would have thanked you for your kind words.

[@Spartan536]

@@BlueSkyUp_EU What the hell are you going on about?

[@BlueSkyUp_EU]

@@Spartan536 The guy who "should've worked on proper radio phraseology" died of a horrible death in that incident. This could be turned into a learning discussion on how to this could be avoided in the future, but I guess is hard for people not to adhere to this toxic blaming culture that seems to define humanity nowadays. The pilot is presented as an idiot who did everything wrong by people who didn't even bothered to learn more about this incident. Few seconds of a recording is enough for them to decide they know what kind of pilot he was ...

[@FahimMotoGP]

Terrible acting, hard to take this seriously