Frontend Masters CEO Talks HTMX, Search, jQuery

Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
FOR THE SALE ATTRIBUTED TO ME
frontendmasters.com/sale/?utm...
/ theprimeagen
Marc Grabanski -- CEO & UI Developer @FrontendMasters
- x.com/1Marc?s=20
- marcgrabanski.com/
- frontendmasters.com/
MY MAIN YT CHANNEL: Has well edited engineering videos
/ theprimeagen
Discord
/ discord
Have something for me to read or react to?: / theprimeagenreact
Hey I am sponsored by Turso, an edge database. I think they are pretty neet. Give them a try for free and if you want you can get a decent amount off (the free tier is the best (better than planetscale or any other))
turso.tech/deeznuts

[@lmauro]

massive respect to Mark and the FM team for their approach to develop

[@oszi7058]

Holy shit he made the jquery ui datepicker? I first saw it in a project at work like a month ago and it really is amazing

[@jeremykothe2847]

sarcasm detector unsure... but I mean... it isn't amazing. It was barely okay 15 years ago.

[@mihailion2468]

​@@jeremykothe2847I mean, it wasn't okay but it was the most okay solution back then. That's a big feat already

[@oszi7058]

@@jeremykothe2847 i didnt went to kuch into detail, but it would take me some time just to make the calender work right, it was my first time working with calendars so it was COOL OK?🥲🥲🥲 Jokes aside its preatty neat you can select the start day like if you want the week to start on monday or some other day, custom day names for different languages than english and the ability to limit the time frame + it looks somewhat decent

[@ficolas2]

@@jeremykothe2847 it's pretty decent, does its job well.

[@Hollowendz]

This was actually a good listen, and no lie their website is super fast. It was interesting hearing about the domain name situation.

[@daltonyon]

Great talk, I'm fan of frontend masters, awesome content!!

[@uralrex]

This is an instant like button.

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

agreed :)

[@user-jh9ti1tr7g]

Excited about this. Just started my first job as a front-end developer and working my way through courses on FEM to deepen my knowledge and round myself out.

[@JensRoland]

As for htmx escape hatches, there are several patterns, but you can just include a custom HTML element in the payload coming from the server and use a simple module autoloader script to fetch the JS if it isn’t already in cache.

[@piotrekr]

HTMX does to JS something very similar to what Tailwind does to CSS. And switching to HTMX after using React feels just as weird as using Tailwind after Bootstrap.

[@TheNewton]

enabling a token-based-workflow would be one way to label it. But HTMX has incredible value in interaction and doesn't have to grow like a fungus through-out child elements to try and deliver it's value of HATEOAS. Tailwind just adds growing noise to markup in any project out of the prototyping phase and seems easier because of bootstraps rigidity.

[@wasaabbi]

this comment pushed me to try htmx

[@chyldstudios]

more interviews like this

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

people genuinely dislike interviews, but i find them fun

[@MrLowbob]

@@ThePrimeTimeagenI like the occasional interview in between other stuff, just not all the time. this one was nice :)

[@albertzakhrabekyan-xn3db]

Awesome Videos man, very helpful!

[@jzmmm]

I loved the jquery ui datepicker. I used it for many, many years.

[@StingSting844]

It was a very good interview. I would like to point out that the success and soeed of the site is mainly because of management understanding the tech stack implications and outcomes. Their excellent strategy of choosing a lower layer of abstraction and sticking to it only works because of the leadership agreeing to it. This will not work out in most of the places where the feature completion is everything

[@watchchat]

Ha! The query date picker saved so much time. Rolled our own but ended up switching to it.

[@PhilipAlexanderHassialis]

sizzle! Now that's a name from down the memory lane! Your memory never ceases to astound me prime.

[@ifeoraokechukwu1346]

@Primeagen, you can create a modal that you can track with the URL. Simply use the `:target` pseudo-class in CSS to implement the modal.

[@everythingwithin1]

It was nice listening in. I checked out the website and it is loading pretty fast. It is very neat and clean. Straight to the point. I got a few laughs before work too. Awesomeness

[@TheKennyWorld]

Love hearing about no-framework approaches!

[@steav677]

Can I get the Game of Life implemented by htmx in this vid? Please give me the link

[@griffadev]

Does frontend masters have content on how to build like frontend masters with no framework. Sounds like good content. 🤔

[@TheNewton]

Being able to search within a video is LIT.

[@kabukitheater9046]

why is he not in a white tshirt?

[@tomisadone1145]

I went the bootcamp way to get a job quickly and I did, now I want to fill in the gaps I have in the basics, do you reccommend Harvard's CS50 course?

[@MrLowbob]

don't know what it's worth: didn't do it myself but heard good stuff about it at least.

[@watchchat]

The search util is sick

[@IlyasMustafazade]

Amazing

[@fortinfred]

@ThePrimeTimeagen Does htmx unleash MFE ?!

[@bythealphabet]

Lets Goooo FEM

[@alexdegaston422]

What's the best way to handle "Airplane Mode" with HTMX apps? Or should we just assume up front that HTMX apps should always be net-connected?

[@mattrs1]

That's the best part, you can theoretically compliment htmx with other js frameworks or with plain client-side js. But if all you wanna use is htmx, it's main limitation is the main cost of it's ease of use is that it relies on server-side rendering. So while an erp/crm could benefit tremendously from it, an html5 game that is made purely in js wouldn't that much.

[@albertzakhrabekyan-xn3db]

Hey

[@piotrekr]

❤

[@laughingvampire7555]

23:25 you sounded like DHH: oh yeah the framework is amazing, yeah it is shitty but it has helped a lot of startups get started and rich the funding so they can optimizen in something like go or whatever. I'm paraphrasing one of his tweets

[@ea_naseer]

if it is shitty and startups are making money from it why are they not improving it? Oh it's shitty before you become a master on it 😂😂😂

[@wojciechosinski5927]

Question: isn't HTMX and having the simplest stuff as endpoints costly? I remember people liked SPAs (at least for a while) cause they were cheaper

[@invntiv]

Question: If you were going to choose a lady of the night to spend the evening with, would you choose the cheapest one? XD

[@laughingvampire7555]

@@invntiv that was just out of place

[@denissorn]

Genuinely wonder what cheap means here. I see SPA as a good thing because it's a meaningful way to consume/communicate with REST APIs when you're building an application (vs a homepage or simple site), and kinda separation of concerns if you need to offer different frontends.

[@ea_naseer]

​@@denissornSPA = less asking server to do things Traditional Frameworks = always ask server for every interactivity thus server provider stonks goes up.😂😂😂

[@wojciechosinski5927]

@@denissorn By SPA I mean client side SPA and I heard that some people strongly lean towards choosing client heavy solutions like this to reduce costs of servers running kubernetes pods. Maybe what they do is completely dumb. I'm still confused about it. Apparently switching to SSR costs thousands of dollars. I like the idea of HTMX. I'm just wondering how it affects costs since SPAs were invented with saving bucks in mind.

[@Sandeep-jo6ve]

Astro with htmx

[@_russell]

Say more. Would this be Astro SSR endpoints for HTMX? Thank you.

[@ShadoFXPerino]

TFW he doesn't fall for the HTMX sales pitch

[@IlyasMustafazade]

htmx btw

[@zahash1045]

It makes me a little sad to hear that one of the best ways to make javascript fast is to write as little of it as possible

[@TechBuddy_]

Moral of the story: escape hatches ( aaand react is shit just use the platform )

[@sylarfx]

hacking react into htmx = jumping the shark, rather using astro would make more sense

[@TheFreshMakerHD]

front end masters is shockingly fast, but their search module and nav bar are fucking hideous.

[@Microphunktv-jb3kj]

14:40 where i can see those top10 functions from 2005 bible... :D

[@torchsmith]

Yessss commented within 15 seconds

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

lets go!

[@torchsmith]

@@ThePrimeTimeagen but the real question is... Why?

[@dpmadness6179]

After 10+ years I've now come to the conclusion that frameworks in most cases offer nothing special. We thought frameworks would speed up development and simplify tedious things - but in reality they only replaced old tedious things with new tedious things. Another problem is that when a framework carries a design principle ie. React -> Finite State Machine w/ Component Encapsulation, Angular, Vue -> MVC, this creates a scenario where devs need to have an underlying understanding of the design principle and use-case to prevent problems in the future - a proactive learning requirement. And Typescript doesn't solve any of this ignorance in the UI community... I like how this true frontend master described HTMx as "declaritive attributes that communicate to the server" - 8:45 . He speaks in the "underlying princples" language that can easily go over most heads who haven't mastered their skills to the level of "framework or no framework who cares"...certainly not customers.

[@meilyn22]

This guy brings people to his interview to talk over them / show how intelligent he is. I wouldn't want to come on his interview, lol. Interviews should be about the person being interviewed and not about you.

[@joranmulderij]

It’s not really an interview. They are having a conversation.

[@meilyn22]

@@joranmulderij Conversation, interviews or whatever you call it, this still applies.

[@andso7068]

I think its more prime wanting to geek out with other geeks, he just tends to be more enthusiastic about it

[@meilyn22]

@andso7068 Nope, it's about cutting off the person you are having a conversation with, just to tell them about HTMX or some Rust stuff. Why not let them speak? Instead of talking about Svelte, for example, he turns the convo into Rust (which the person doesn't really care about). That's super rude.

[@joranmulderij]

@@meilyn22 Yea he does indeed have a tendency to talk too much, which means the guests will have less opportunity, but he also keeps his audience engaged. Do agree it is too much though.

[@gabrielmedeiros9806]

give me a coupom =)

[@rishijha8892]

why do frontend?

[@buc991]

because users of most applications wouldn't be happy if you present them bunch of endpoints instead of interface.

[@Sammi84]

Why do computers?

[@-Engineering01-]

Terminal also is a front end mind you.

[@demystifyingdev]

I think the explanation of what HTMX is presented in this video falls way short of revealing its importance. Excessive pragmatism and superficiality on this channel. What was completely missed was the contribution htmx makes to reducing insane complexity and the almost universal industry misunderstanding of hypermedia and the gains we could be making by rejecting the MPA and SPA levels of top down complexity injection (without entirely rejecting MPA and SPA when they are really needed in a given use case). Luckily the HTMX docs and the book recently published explain much more, more profoundly.

[@MrLowbob]

the book "hypermedia systems" or which one?

[@demystifyingdev]

yes, that one @@MrLowbob

[@jessmusic1402]

"bothendmasters" 🤣

[@laughingvampire7555]

your frontend has bloat, I use htmx btw

[@catalystzerova]

jqui date picker guy?!?!?!

[@andso7068]

the dude's humor seems to be drier than the mojave desert and it almost looks like he doesn't want to be in the video but he seems like a really smart and busy dude who's running on 3 hours of sleep and fueled with 3000mg of caffeine, so i'll give him a pass.

[@samuelschwager]

real pros are monolith masters :P

[@laughingvampire7555]

why would you want to go with the zeitgeist? that is even more sheep-ish than being an iSheep. It is exactly running the cliff because everyone else is doing it. Nah, I'm on the side of Marc, avoiding frameworks, I have managed to avoid React and lots of other shit shows

[@deniyii]

Most people are just trying to get a job, which is fine. Not everyone has the luxury to go against the “zeitgeist”.

[@SM-ok3sz]

It’s funny how out of touch he is because he’s been at Netflix so long.

[@allah9896]

what makes you say he’s out of touch?

[@Kane0123]

These “Frontend Masters” don’t even use Blazor… real front ends are built in the lords language…

[@MrLowbob]

dreamberd or get out of here

[@beaticulous]

Never wish HTMX to become part of HTML. That would be death sentence as different implementations would botch the whole idea. A js library as the _only_source_ _is_ the way to go. Javascript is the system language of browsers and good enough for extensions like HTMX.

[@IlyasMustafazade]

Hey