Frontier shifting its flight scheduling, impacting flight attendants and the flying public

[@robert_nyc]

Frontier is below the “low cost” model. They are rock bottom in industry standards.

[@tysthelimit7698]

I left the company in February for this very reason

[@Tealll]

How long were you with the company, and how did you come to your decision? (if you don’t mind me asking) I have my F2F interview in 2 weeks but now I’m considering turning it down. Overnighting in different cities and hotels was something I was really looking forward to. And losing that per diem pay feels huge.

[@azande26]

They use to be a real good airline before they went low cost

[@LEVELGAZANOW]

That was two Frontier Companies ago: Frontier 1, Frontier 2 and now Frontier 3. It’s not the same original company. It’s a craphole company.

[@ge3877]

This will last for about 6-10 months. Then a new VP will come in and tell the team that this actually costs the company money and it’s cheaper to have crews flying 2, 3, and 4 day trips.

[@mrAhollandjr]

On Frontiers part, they are going to save $150 - $200 per flight attendant ( possibly pilots too?) Per week. Crews use crash pads or hotels paid for by the airline so the $50 per diem is essentially lunch money that they are picketing. If a flight gets canceled the airline will still have to be responsible for the per diem and will still have to find replacement crews if other crew members are stuck in another city The two main problems for the FAs are losing the flight hours. Instead of getting the hours over 3 or 4 days, they may have to work 5 or even 6 days even though they may work less hours per day. They also lose that $ 200 per week extra money The other problem is that a lit if FAs don't live in the cities they are based in. This is true for nearly all airlines. Under the old scenario these crew members could fly free to their home city, spend two days with their families and fly back to their base for free the day before they are scheduled to work. Under the new policy, they would either have to move to the base city, fly home to spend one night with their families and fly back., or work for another airline The only way out is if they live in a city that is already a Frontier crew base and they make that city their base. I knew a United flight attendant based in Chicago but chose Newark for her base because her seniority afforded her to bid and fly more international routes. In conclusion flight attendants know how to work the system to their advantage and Frontier is cutting the perks. This absolutely has no effect on the passenger unless the flight attendants take their frustration out on them

[@erauprcwa]

The airline doesn't pay for crash pads... They're going to a model where they don't pay for hotels.

[@mrAhollandjr]

@@erauprcwa i never said the airline paid for crash pads. I said crew members stay at crash pads OR at HOTELS PAID for by the airlines. The flight attendants pay for the crash pads and split several ways becomes very cheap for them. In some places airlines pay for a hotel room or rooms that get used nightly by their crew members.

[@erauprcwa]

@@mrAhollandjr "...Crews use crash pads or hotels paid for by the airline..." You did. By the formulation of that statement it says crash pads OR hotels are paid for by the airline. If it's a commuter clause in a flight attendant or pilot contract, airlines will pay for hotels when the employee is NOT on duty, but all airlines pay for hotels when the crew member is ON duty.

[@glenwoodriverresidentsgrou136]

I’m sorry, but welcome to everyone else’s world. The company does not exist to provide perks for employees and let them fly for free to wherever they want to live. My boss would shoot me if I proposed to work like that. Frontier could up pay to offset some of the losses, phase the changes in slowly over time based on seniority, and spoiled employees could move and go home to their families every night. Like the rest of us. Airline employees get so many travel perks it is sickening. Try paying rack rate for your next vacation airfare and ask me to feel sorry for you.

[@BB-yp5cz]

The airlines doesn't pay for crashpads nor hotels!!! That comes out of our pockets, not theirs. 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@HoldTheLine1990]

How or why did the Union allow this change? Is it in their contract? Commuting does suck and it would get costly to have a crash pad or hotel nightly. If enough quit then management will react. Remember this is an ultra LCC so…

[@BrettFightorFlight]

The fact that the frontier staff expect anything more from there company is hilarious

[@SKS8080]

Just move to California and work for a fast food joint. They pay $20 an hour on doing basically nothing job.

[@me-it9jn]

so these flight attendants are gonna have closer to normal 9-5, commute everyday jobs

[@Matt_Nguyen]

frontier is citing that they are doing this to avoid delays, LOL how are they gonna avoid delays when most of the flight attendants quit or go on strike.

[@TM-nu5vd]

Oh well -- they can always apply at another airline. Commuting from another city to a domicile is the individuals choice, not the airline. Then again, when are Flight Attendants not complaining about something?!?!? As for the United story, first the reporter says "requiring pilots to take unpaid time off" then the story caption says "asking pilots to take voluntary, unpaid leave". Required and asking/voluntary don't mean the same thing -- get the story right!

[@haidaraziz2263]

Issue is if they apply for a different airline and go through a whole different training they will have to restart their seniorities which is very in the airline industry. Having to start at the bottom of a different company is hard for Flight attendants that have been with their company for multiple years.

[@erauprcwa]

That's a big deal. As a flight crew member, I work for an airline that DOES NOT do day turns (as a normal schedule). I much prefer to NOT do that, as that's a major disruption to ones life, as opposed to doing a "trip" that lasts for 2-4 days. Imagine working for a normal job and you work 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. Then your employer says, nope. You're gonna work 4 hrs a day, twice a week. You'll have to pick up more days at odd hours to make up for your loss of pay. BTW, that 4 hours is broken into 2 hrs. So you have to come back to work, twice in that day... (Imagine driving back and forth to and from the airport).

[@cristiandiaz6333]

Frontier should slightly increase the flight attendant salaries to make up for lost wages. However, Frontier previous scheduling did not make "cents" sense. They realized that they were losing money that way but paying their crews more.

[@erauprcwa]

They were "losing" money by paying their crews. The typical schedule is to put a crew out on the road for 2-4 days. During those days, when not flying, you have to stay at a hotel (the airline pays for). Frontier realized they could make more money by NOT doing hotels for crews and go to a Allegiant Airlines model where it's day turns.

[@cristiandiaz6333]

@@erauprcwa Unless they could make more money at another airline, most of the flying crews would remain intact at Frontier if the other working schedules are the same or similar to Frontier's new one.

[@tonydegiuseppe9484]

More than SLIGHTLY.

[@kberg5055]

No worries, apply to other airlines which are better. You'll probably get a $5,000 sign on bonus too. Longevity means nothing to airlines.

[@michaelajackson6004]

Very wrong. It is an incredibly competitive industry that takes months and months to get with any airline. No mainline is going to offer a sign on bonus for flight attendants and longevity means everything. Seniority is the most important part of the aviation industry for both Flight attendants and pilots.

[@tonydegiuseppe9484]

All of the FRONTIER flight attendants should find new jobscand LEAVE.

[@johntamasi3265]

It’s a decision the company has to make. Fly turns and be efficient or continue as status quo and file for bankruptcy in six months to a year. So you have a job or you choose to not have a company and job in a few months.

[@Abcdefghijk920]

It lowers their pay so much. We depend on per diem on our overnights. I feel so bad for the cabin crews of frontier

[@Brandon-os3qr]

Being that this is anonymous, would it be ok to ask what your hourly pay is like?

[@jhmcd2]

Here is the reason Frontier is doing this. Typically in a contract the maximum number of days you can work is determine by the number of days off you have or the number of times they can get you home. By making all the trips out and backs they effectively mean that they can't have the same person work more days per week than before, usually up to six in a row. Also, that so called aviation professor just flat out lied. How is having a plane that over nighted in Baltimore with a crew that went straight back to Denver going to be beneficial when they can't get the replacement crew back? Now some people like put and backs, I used to like them on occasion because I l9ved at my base, but they can be extremely stressful when you work 14 hour days. Effectively, this is a way not to hire.

[@kangaroo5189]

I am not sure if Frontier crew has trip time pay. If that exists, that's a bigger problem than the per diem.

[@genxpilot69]

Those that are having affairs in other cities are the ones that don't want to come right back home

[@Brandon-os3qr]

I don't want to be insensitive, but a lot of these complaints are things that most non-flight attendants deal with...commuting more, not having per diems, etc. It's definitely losing perks, but that's not the same as being treated poorly. And I'm rarely the person who supports business cutbacks (e.g. I'll note that their excuse that it's partially to help flight reliability is bogus)

[@jorge1682]

Educate yourself on how FA are paid

[@Brandon-os3qr]

@@jorge1682 dated one for years, am well aware

[@WalkingmanHD]

Frontier won’t survive doing this!

[@res887]

I guess frontier is happy about the outcome

[@pauln7029]

I had my flight delayed 7 hours. When I arrived, no one was at the front desk, I was running everywhere to try to find information. I missed the flight by 3 minutes because it's impossible to check in. No boarding pass. You have to use whatsapp to communicate with them now. No reimbursement. No change to later flight. When someone finally came out from the plane, she kept on arguing with me and thought that 1 hour before the flight was late. This is in sacramento fronteir. I just tell myself that the man in the sky doesn't want me to fly that day. 😂

[@runuphill]

Check-in is via their phone app.

[@DaneReidVoiceOver]

This has nothing to do with the customers. C'mon, look at frontier. They don't care about their customers. They don't even have a customer service number. They care about paying for hotels and per diem. That saves them a ton of money. I hope all their flight attendants quit. I'll never fly them again

[@johntamasi3265]

Oh forgot you have a monthly guaranteed hrs. and trip guarantee don’t you. If not then AFA did a really poor job for you.

[@bobbullethalf]

Frontier sucks! They need to just go defunct!

[@jbar_85]

Hold on, they don’t want to pay for a hotel or something? 😂

[@phxpaul]

on a multiday trip 2,3,4 day trips, the airline pays for the crewmember room. Switching to a turnday schedule, commuters have to pay for their hotel rooms in between trips. And it is not a tax deductible expense. If you want 15 to 20 hours of flight credit per week, that means you are most likely paying for 2 to 3 days of hotels

[@CharlieHP1]

They want to commuting FAs to quit and they'll hire new FA's local to their flights. That way nobody needs hotels.

[@josephcedatoljr.7562]

@@phxpaul Let's not forget the per diem that goes along with it. Out & back they don't have to pay per diem.

[@jbar_85]

@@josephcedatoljr.7562 this all sounds ghetto. You wonder why we have safety issues- greed.

[@dashiadenise3429]

It’s actually very beneficial for us . Being away from home for days gets tiring

[@icandyi564]

Are they saying one flight a day for the flight attendants

[@runuphill]

No -- multiple out-and-back flights between the two cities every day.

[@celebrityrog]

Frontier and Spirit should merge then promptly go out of business and let an ACTUAL airline do the job.

[@somapersona]

I don't fly them.

[@cassandradistin2521]

Frontier has disappointed me so many times with their voucher program. Received 2 voucher's for Frontiers dropping the ball & me never able to use the vouchers. Cuckoo !!!

[@EthanHale-s1s]

We used to fly Frontier, but they were terrible. We’re looking forward to the new changes. As costumers, it’s a HUGE benefiti hope they work it out with the flight attendants. But being a business owner myself, employees seem to want everything their way with total disregard for the fact that their employers will go out of business if the union get everything they want. .

[@SnidelyWhiplach]

The company is saving hotel costs. That’s all it’s about $$$

[@HDAviationFilms]

As a Frontier pilot I am not affected whatsoever.

[@jasonking6892]

It's all about Money Money Money and more Money 😅😅😅

[@TWA88T]

It's at least 1 hour from parking lot to plane and back. So an extra 2 hours every duty day, and that's if you live basically at Denver Airport!

[@runuphill]

Not if you take advantage of public transportation.

[@dashcan8479]

Very low pay. $50 a day. Ridiculous. Pay them more.

[@Brandon-os3qr]

That's not their pay. That's a "per diem," an extra bonus amount they get for each day they don't end the day in their home / base. They get pretty decent pay actually, but this bonus that they're losing is significant, which is why they're upset

[@themusers03]

World was a better place before budget airlines. Now anyone can fly, and the airlines cheap out.

[@airplaneguy17]

Yeah, they’re going under

[@johntamasi3265]

Frontier is on the brinks of financial collapse so think. Turns or no jobs.

[@jbar_85]

First United and now them.

[@glenwoodriverresidentsgrou136]

Waaa! A first world problem. The business model governs operations, not the other way around. Welcome to the kind of job the rest of us have. Most of us don’t trot around the country on expense account. This will help get people home every night to be with their families. If I told my boss I wanted to live in another state and commute to be able to work 4 days on and 4 days off he would throw me out on my ear. This will yield a stronger company that can better survive. Some people may have to move but will still have jobs. Welcome to everyone else’s world. Maybe not everyone’s job survives, but most will. Better than bankruptcy and none.

[@tgs6027]

And here's what the company is not telling you and is not telling the public The truth ontime performance is at 59.6% on-time arrivals 71.9% head start departures 76% just AWFUL performance since this all started but they keeping that from the public!

[@BrettFightorFlight]

No more free hotels .

[@johnnyfive1412]

What other business pays employees from the moment they leave their home until they get back home? Dont see any problem with this change.

[@daniellevert6646]

Buses do

[@heatbroker-cr3zz]

We are long gone from the days of people working for one company for 20 years or more. They're just going to have to get other jobs just like the rest of us.😅 and it looks like the flight attendant Fleet is about to get younger and it needs to because the ones they have now are rude. And I can judge from the comments and tell that none of you people fly at all LMAO you people are not outside LOL you people are in the bed under the covers with a bowl of cereal and a blunt. Screaming at your mom LOL😅😂

[@jojothetasmaniansassmonkey8866]

"metro-state" university.

[@erikjohnson9931]

Horrible airline that NO ONE should book a flight on.

[@trekuhl3966]

GEEZ why would anyone ever fly Frontier? I did once and will never again.

[@ernstj415]

Just get a crash pad like many commuters do. Such a fussy group; if they quit there’ll be thousands more eager-eyed folks willing to go through a training program and slap on some wings. Heck, Allegiant Airlines employs this exact model and their crews seem to love that type of flying.

[@skm6545]

Frontier is stupid airline . Always delayed some slag . I stopped last time they delayed from Dallas to Atlanta and once 7 hr delay to Denver

[@cholomackdaddy]

All decided by some assholes that congratulate themselves on the daily with cigars and expensive alcohol.

[@TbhIThink]

I’ve been in for 15 years. Quit lying guys.

[@phxpaul]

who is lying?

[@pesawatindonesia]

waw

[@BRC332]

Out and backs are the best. You are home every night! Stop whining.

[@erauprcwa]

That's not good for everyone. I take it you live 10 minutes from your local airport?

[@Howrider65]

It's crap no matter what you do look at the clown we have in the White House.

[@mafp22w]

Oh my, they have to go to work every day just like the rest of us.

[@crjetpilot]

Oh?? Well then, they should be paid from the time they go to work, until the time they are finished at work. How much of your workday do you work for free? Do you get paid breaks and a lunch time? Well guess who doesn’t? FAs (and pilots) operate under a different set of rules than “everyone else” but we consider it a give and take. We accept some of the sucky conditions at work so that we can have a perk in another area. You probably misunderstood what the FA rep said anyway, about being forced to drive to work 12 days or more per month vs once a week. I don’t have any nonairline friends who are asked to work for 3 hrs, then clock out for a couple (even though they’re still working), then back on for a couple…all to the tune of working a 14 hour day, but being paid 7 or less.

[@erauprcwa]

You do realize that flight crews were working everyday. Now a person has to work MORE to make the same pay. This is a typical airline crew schedule: TWO DAY TRIP Checkin time- 1 hr before departure (7 am). You're flying 4 flights today. One flight is two hours, second is two hours, third is 1 hr, and the fourth is 2.5 hrs. (total flight time: 7.5 hrs) You have 1 hr between flights for a total working day of 11.5 hours. You have a 10 hr overnight and on day two, you have to do three flights. Day 2: First flight 2 hrs, second flight 30 minutes, third flight five hours but started off with a three hour delay due to weather (the cabin door was not closed and you had to deplane due to the Passenger Bill of Rights, which kicks in at 2 hrs... So passengers were on the airplane and YOU'RE required to be there when they're on board). You are required to show up 1 hour prior to your departure. REGULATIONS STATE: You shall have 10 hrs of rest, 8 hrs behind closed door. This does not include time between the airport and hotel. The drive from the airport to the hotel takes 1 hr during rush hour traffic. So your 10 hr overnight goes from 10 to 8... just with the van time. Oh yeah... Do you think in total you've been paid for that time? LMFAO Nope! Day one, your flight time was 7.5 hours, but you don't get paid until that door is closed. So for an 11.5 hr work day, you only got paid for 7.5 hrs at $28/hr. On Day two, you worked 7.5 hrs in flight time, but you had that 3 hr delay. Because the door wasn't closed, you didn't get paid for ANY of that delay. So your duty day was 13 hrs... You again, only got paid for 7.5 hours at $28/hr. Your pay rate is $28/hr. You worked a total of 24.5 hrs in two days, with minimal sleep. that's about $2000 of pay. HOWEVER, you weren't paid for 24.5 hrs of work. You were paid for 15 hours of flight time, even though you had to be at the airport an hour early and your flights an hour early. You also worked that entire three hour delay. So you actually get paid for 15 hr which equates to $420. Lets also keep in mind there are taxes and insurance. Do you really think flight attendants and pilots get paid enough?

[@exodusATTWN]

You must be actually retarded

[@MusicAvi8Tr]

Isnt this Southwest’s model now for decades? They make it work.

[@donaldprice2243]

No. No airline does this.

[@phxpaul]

🤣 No. You dont get it. But then most people dont get how airline pilots and flight attendants are paid or what expense they have

[@phxpaul]

You are thinking of point to point vs hub and spoke

[@oscarsalomon1]

@@donaldprice2243 Actually Allegiant has been doing this model for some time now and it works fine for them.

[@ljthirtyfiver]

Allegiant does this it’s been there business model. Southwest doesn’t typically do it